I don't think that they'll combine hexproof and evasion again. They said that they disliked the gameplay. On the other hand, just an unblockable beater would still work well if it's a four manamulticoloredvampire.
really hoping this doesn't become a huge money card, I could use a few copies of this in my Megrim/Urza's Guilt multiplayer deck. Unfortunately, while I doubt it will get much Standard play, that effect is far too good to go unnoticed in some of the older formats. Somebody's gonna break this one, so get them while they're cheap I guess.
As far as the actual cipher mechanic itself goes, I'll be very surprised if it ends up being as strong as everyone seems to expect it to be. It's an absurdly powerful mechanic in a vacuum, but let's wait to see some more of the cards that actually have cipher. In order for them to be any kind of balanced, they're going to almost have to be overcosted or have somewhat innocuous effects. Even single card draw at 3 CMC or spot kill at 4 CMC seems to be pushing it a bit.
Here's the thing, though: Cipher, as a mechanic, is incredibly strong in theory. Possibly even broken. But the same commentary about all the other mechanics this week still hold true with Cipher. The mechanic is only as strong as the cards it's printed on. Yes, this one in particular is disgusting as can be, but that's not an indication that EVERY cipher card will be.
Personally, I don't think we'll see cipher be nearly as strong as it COULD be. WotC knows very well how strong "free spell" mechanics can be, and virtually every one of such mechanics in the past has come back to bite them. So, I can't honestly see them making the same mistakes here. My guess is that most of the cipher cards will come with fairly high mana costs, and aren't nearly as playable as their effect would otherwise warrant. WotC HAS to know they're playing with fire here, and I doubt they'll be any riskier than they have to be.
Cute, but not the point... Carnival of Souls is regarded as one of the worst cards EVER. Combo killing a multiplayer table with it is much more satisfying.
1) Cast 1 Myr Retriever paying 0.
2) Trigers Carnival of souls. You lose one life and get B. 1st Myr goes to graveyard.
3) Cast the second Myr Retriever paying 0 and pay Exort with B, Return the 1st Myr and lose one life and get B. (Remember that you have just win one life).
4) Repeat from 3
Oh.. what a great 5 cards combo for Exort in legacy... good luck dude... u_u
I'm not a fan of it. Slow pain and continuous grinds is really Orzhov, but this meta is either go fast or go big. This is neither. It's hard to judge from a single card, since this is a six drop. If there is a smaller, more efficient dude then this, that preforms well, then it might just be better then I give it credit for.
Also, for all of you who think this is a good mana sink in Limited, it isn't. Let's say you hit your all land drops and cast it turn six. You won't have a full hand, and sure, everything that you cast after that will drain, but your opponent can have 15 power on the board by then. However, I love it's second ability. I think that it will be usable in Limited, Casual and EDH, but it won't hit type 2.
Also, I'm loving all the new mechanics. They really represent the guilds flavor-wise, and gameplay-wise.
The meta is Go Fast or Go Big NOW... when GTC comes out there are going to be a lot more cards in the environment, including two color pairs most known for control decks and long games. The meta two months from now could be wildly, wildly different from what it is now. Bleeder strategies like this could be very viable by that point, as well as mill (dimir's rumored to be mill-centric). Also can't forget that we'll have all 10 shocks, checklands, keyrunes, and gates by that point, so god only knows what 3-, 4-, and 5-color shenanigans we might see.
you're forgetting the main problem with evaluating this thing: we haven't seen even a fraction of the set yet. QED?
oh, i'm not forgetting it... i totally agree with you. People are already condemning this card AND mechanic, I'm just kinda shrugging my whole shoulders at the whole circus of it and trying to find a casual deck of mine that might like it. There's no point in judging anything seriously yet, and even then, people evaluate harshly based off of malleable circumstances.
I can't say people became spoiled. They spoiled us. Card power is relative. It's their own fault to make some cards absurdly pushed and others "balanced". People complain about cards in the same rarity that don't have the same power level.
The way magic work is intended though. Only a few cards are meant to see tournament play and those cards get expansive really quickly. Some are junkie so, casuals can easilly get then and have fun in kitchen tables.
This round of spoilers are problably the pre-release cards. And those pre-release cards are extremely weak in constructed for some reason but fun and health for limited.
People are just pointing out that this card is not meant for constructed. Constructed is about sweepers killing all creatures you have every 3 turns from turn 4 and on. No deck can afford this card. You won't finish the game by turn 4 if you play this. The card also get blocked by Restoration Angel, which makes the possibility of good turn 5 win even more narrow.
Hellrider only see play because it makes turn 4 kills very consistent and because it hits 4 damage against a post-verdict/terminus table. Red decks would not even see play if they relied on 4 cmc creatures without haste.
I understand why people don't like this card for the current Standard environment, and all the reasons they give for that. My point is that there's absolutely no reason to judge this card as bad or good purely by the Standard meta as it sit right now. I'm a predominantly casual player, and most of the decks I own are full of cards like this, stuff that's not bad on its own, but gets a bad rap because it's not useful in the tournament du jour.
And yes, WotC is responsible for some cards being stronger than others. MaRo has even written articles on the topic himself. You're right, WotC has spoiled players with ridiculous cards like GoST and Resto Angel. But the fact remains that people will complain regardless of what you give them.
really hoping for a cheap defender or two with extort, personally. I play a lot of free for all multiplayer, and can already dream up a fun deck of extort cards, pillory of the sleepless, syphon soul, and others...
It will come down to what else GTC has to offer, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Orzhov, like the Ghost Dad decks it spawed the first time around, be all about stalls and the long game. Slow grind and bleed, lots of defense and removal. Sounds fun.
Why on earth are we making EDH keywords now? Is Wizards that desperate? Unless you're playing some massive EDH casual thingy, this is crap. Even then, its decent. Come on, Wizards, maybe you should make real cards instead of catering to casual players.
Because sanctioned tournaments are the only REAL way to play...
So, a Moroii variant?
As far as the actual cipher mechanic itself goes, I'll be very surprised if it ends up being as strong as everyone seems to expect it to be. It's an absurdly powerful mechanic in a vacuum, but let's wait to see some more of the cards that actually have cipher. In order for them to be any kind of balanced, they're going to almost have to be overcosted or have somewhat innocuous effects. Even single card draw at 3 CMC or spot kill at 4 CMC seems to be pushing it a bit.
Personally, I don't think we'll see cipher be nearly as strong as it COULD be. WotC knows very well how strong "free spell" mechanics can be, and virtually every one of such mechanics in the past has come back to bite them. So, I can't honestly see them making the same mistakes here. My guess is that most of the cipher cards will come with fairly high mana costs, and aren't nearly as playable as their effect would otherwise warrant. WotC HAS to know they're playing with fire here, and I doubt they'll be any riskier than they have to be.
I was expecting a mill-based mechanic, really, since they may never have a better place to use it.
Cute, but not the point... Carnival of Souls is regarded as one of the worst cards EVER. Combo killing a multiplayer table with it is much more satisfying.
Riiiiight... yep, totally missed that. Looks like 3-color kobolds are go, then!
soooo... what's more likely?
having Heartless Summoning, Carnival of Souls, 2 Myr Retriever, and an extorter in play?
or
having Cloudstone Curio, Carnival of Souls, 2 Ornithopter/memnite, and an extorter in play?
Asking seriously... I just really want to combo out with a Carnival of Souls deck...
The meta is Go Fast or Go Big NOW... when GTC comes out there are going to be a lot more cards in the environment, including two color pairs most known for control decks and long games. The meta two months from now could be wildly, wildly different from what it is now. Bleeder strategies like this could be very viable by that point, as well as mill (dimir's rumored to be mill-centric). Also can't forget that we'll have all 10 shocks, checklands, keyrunes, and gates by that point, so god only knows what 3-, 4-, and 5-color shenanigans we might see.
Oh dear... I don't care how unreliable or ridiculous that appears. I want to make that happen.
oh, i'm not forgetting it... i totally agree with you. People are already condemning this card AND mechanic, I'm just kinda shrugging my whole shoulders at the whole circus of it and trying to find a casual deck of mine that might like it. There's no point in judging anything seriously yet, and even then, people evaluate harshly based off of malleable circumstances.
I understand why people don't like this card for the current Standard environment, and all the reasons they give for that. My point is that there's absolutely no reason to judge this card as bad or good purely by the Standard meta as it sit right now. I'm a predominantly casual player, and most of the decks I own are full of cards like this, stuff that's not bad on its own, but gets a bad rap because it's not useful in the tournament du jour.
And yes, WotC is responsible for some cards being stronger than others. MaRo has even written articles on the topic himself. You're right, WotC has spoiled players with ridiculous cards like GoST and Resto Angel. But the fact remains that people will complain regardless of what you give them.
That's about the only connection I could come up with myself, pillories and whatnot.
Because sanctioned tournaments are the only REAL way to play...