You might be right full on, I could perhaps scale back actual cards to just 35 and not 40 and if I was evil make all the new ones zombie giants.
The deck could maybe be bigger too, although once behind it doesn't recover, so it likely needs to be more explosive.
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Oct 16, 2011MiffedMoogle posted a message on Horde Magic - First ExperiencePosted in: MiffedMoogle Blog
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Oct 9, 2011MiffedMoogle posted a message on Horde decksThis actually reminds me of a tower defense build or even HoN. I like it, it's stretching formula too.Posted in: metalevolence Blog
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For those who do follow this thread more thoughts are welcome, partially on Silence the Believers, whether I should run Sever the Bloodline, whether dreadbore should be reincluded or whether All is Dust is too anti-synergistic.
Lending out optimised decks can't make up for a bad player or one with poor threat assessment though. When I do lend decks out, people don't always fully understand how to time a play or which combos are optimal in a situation. Familiarity with a deck or colours makes up for a lot.
Politics does help, but politics can't hide the fact Sharuum will combo unless you annihilate it from the table (as an example, some generals are signs of a deck type of high level of power), nor that tutoring while there is a potential combo piece may indicate the other was found and death is coming next turn. Ignorance only goes so far unless the other players are inept at identifying the board state and reading into a player's actions or options.
I'm glad you like my list As you can see it is quite old, but this kind of deck is quite a classic one and it has a few options that share a purpose typically enchantment wise. Death Cloud and Myojin of Night's Reach are great, although I feel Death Cloud is too risky when other decks recover better than you and Titania, Protector of Argoth makes it pretty bad amongst other cards. Whip is pretty amazing and with Havoc Festival provides some redundancy. Cabal Conditioning never appealed to me at its high cost, but the effect is spot on for this play style. Wound Reflection is an all star I agree, I always see situations where it would win games, but it's not for every deck.
The two options you quoted are super creative and if I found myself facing large threats regularly would be great, although, as you say exile is quite a bit more desirable. Silence the Believers is my preferred option (it was the one I saw played too), as is Sever the Bloodline, as Ashes to Ashes is a bit painful and requires two targets. Adding Into the Core could also be added again, instead or in addition to these for purely artifact answers.
I like the idea, although often there are no creatures out. The two used gods can mitigate the trigger for the enchantment to die, but I think I'll play a few more games to see how it goes. Thank you though.
Today someone borrowed the deck, but didn't understand how to appropriately use it or proper threat assessment, so it wasn't used to the best standard, but it seemed to work and had they tutored correctly it would've won a table of 4. This is a downside of lending a deck, as the borrowed won't understand. I believe it did positively despite this. The absence of exiling options for annoying creatures did arise though, so I will focus on hwo to address this ie. Blightsteel Colossus.
That's quite a few cards you recommended. I'll see how some of them fare, although the most appropriate that I should be running but aren't at present are the panoramas.
Spyglass seems too inefficient for my goals straight up though, the deck should be able to function without Titania being out, even if she is the life of the deck. For a similar reason's Gaea's Balance is a bit of a risk, LDing myself will allow big swings, but will stop certain plays later on if the ramp is lacking in the early game and it is too severe on my part. Thank you though!
@KokoroKishin I will reply later today hopefully, but I agree with you on a few things, but are being optimistic in some of those card choices. I am also going on the word of another deck that Wastes is fitting, but I agree offhand that it seems very inefficient.
Thoughts are welcome, although I do warn I am slow to respond at times.
It is an odd thing that some combos are acceptable and others not and if you have to do something the hard way or in a way that exposes you to some risk, as opposed to instant speed card filtering, it is okay, in the same way Insurrection or Craterhoof Behemoth isn't viewed as dirty despite the simplicity of such winning plays.
As I see it, match your group's level of competitiveness if possible and if going for a combo, I suppose give them a chance to stop you. I'm unsure your group would be as adverse to say Hatred or Berserk, but perhaps Prossh was just a bad choice for them if using a mechanic of the game still frustrates them.
Rewriting the Argothian War
Why play Titania, Protector of Argoth as your Green Commander?
Mono-green Commander is quite a well-known field, there are the infamous Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Omnath, Locus of Mana decks that seemingly stand above the rest and other effective, but arguably less consistent and less ubiquitous, such as Ezuri, Renegade Leader and Thrun, the Last Troll. If not playing a deck that provides assistance to mana ramp as significantly as Azusa or Omnath, which enables many strategies barring perhaps voltron in the case of Azusa, other green commanders are by necessity more highly specialized in their focus.
Titania, Protector of Argoth is exceptional in providing an explosive ability that rewards you just for using certain lands and abilities that destroy your lands as part of the cost and recurring one of those lands each time she is cast. This makes Titania able to generate a substantial force quickly and able to enable considerable life swings without doing too much, let alone with preparation. As a result she is useful as a stax commander, for creating her own army to sustain you and as a strong aggressive commander who makes her own army. This deck pursuant to the ideas of HardCasting of what is preferable for this commander, is focused on Stax, but is none the less very aggressive and can play in several modes. If you like either of these modes of play, Titania is a highly recommended commander, and as a worthy alternative to Azusa and Omnath.
Commander 2014 offered Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury as the poster child of the green deck, but the elf tribal deck is in my opinion highly lackluster and Freyalise is lacking as a general. Titania is the stronger general of the pre-constructed deck and arguably one of the best, if not the best new commander from Commander 2014 for the interesting interactions and powerful plays she enables.
Due to my inexperience, I have started with and decided to model my deck's advancement off HardCasting's excellent list, but provide my own choices as I learnt it more. Until it is substantially different, I will recognise this list is more or less like his and that this is as much for my personal records, as promoting my idea of what the stax Titania build should be.
Who is Titania, Protector of Argoth?
Now for a small vorthos (flavour focused) aside on this commander. Titania was the guardian elemental of the island of Argoth that was the final battleground of the brothers Urza and Mishra during the Brother's War. The rest of the world had been scoured dry of resources in their long war and once Urza's son discovered the island of Argoth it was rapidly invaded and despoiled, ultimately being destroyed.
This is a descriptive extract from the Bother's War novel describing Urza's son, Harbin meeting her incarnation for the first time.
"At the end of the processional was a great dais, its steps rising to a white marble platform that ended in a throne as green as the heart of the forest. Seated on the throne was the queen herself.
Her beauty was unearthly. No, Harbin realised; her very being was unearthly. Her face seemed like a jade mask, narrow and pointed at the chin. Her form was lithe and lean and, if she were to stand, she would be taller than Harbin. She was decked in tendrils and vines, the brilliant yellow-green of new shoots, but her eyes were deep, old and unfathomable...Then it occurred to him. Queen Titania was not truly present in this great hall. The beautiful creature before him was a mannequin, a puppet operated from afar. It looked truly alive, but it was nothing but vines and wood." (Grubb, The Brother's War, Wizards of the Coast, 1998, pp. 366-368).
What is the Deck Strategy Summarized?
This part will require depth when I have time, but succinctly, ramp quickly, get Titania down, destroy land and control the field. The method changes on the ability and position of your opponents.
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
Card Quality (8)
1 Garruk's Packleader
1 Greater Good
1 Kavu Lair
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Regal Force
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Diving Top
1 Sylvan Library
Mana Ramp (16)
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Cultivate
1 Edge of Autumn
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Exploration
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Harrow
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Nature's Lore
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Ranger's Path
1 Skyshroud's Claim
1 Sol Ring
1 Three Visits
Recursion (4)
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Eternal Witness
1 Life from the Loam
1 Praetor's Council
1 All is Dust
1 Beast Within
1 Natural Affinity
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Wave of Vitriol
Stax Elements (5)
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Natural Balance
1 Smokestack
1 Ward of Bones
1 Winter Orb
Damage Mitigation (3)
1 Constant Mists
1 Sun Stone
1 Zuran Orb
Tutors (6)
1 Chord of Calling
1 Crop Rotation
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scapeshift
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Sylvan Scrying
Haste Enablers (2)
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Concordant Crossroads
Other Creatures (7)
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Craterhood Behemoth
1 Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Thunderfoot Baloth
1 Bant Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Jund Panorama
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Naya Panorama
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Land Destruction Lands "Strip Mines" (5)
1 Dust Bowl
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Strip Mine
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
Other Lands (24)
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Crystal Vein
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Lotus Vale
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Petrified Field
1 Scorched Ruins
16 Snow-Covered Forest
Note: If forced to remove Sol Ring due to a specialised ban list, a Snow-Covered Forest or mana ramp spell, such as Explosive Vegetation would be suitable replacements.
Change List
Nissa's Expedition - Courser of Kruphix
Snow-Covered Forest -> Bant Panorama
Snow-Covered Forest -> Jund Panorama
Snow-Covered Forest -> Naya Panorama
11/02/2015
Courser of Kruphix -> Elvish Spirit Guide
Encroaching Wastes -> Snow-Covered Forest
Khalni Heart Expedition -> Summoner's Pact
Rampaging Baloths -> Thunderfoot Baloth
Scrying Sheets -> Snow-Covered Forest
Squirrel Wrangler -> Jolrael, Empress of Beasts
I still need to play this more, as it took a while to make, but I've been meaning to post for a while. I understand I am not best authority on this style for the deck at present, but I hope you like my take on the build and can offer advice on the way it should go from here.
Considering: Rude Awakening, Nylea, God of the Hunt, Harmonize, Momentous Fall, and Worldslayer.
My rationale for Filth was you can just cast it and sacrifice it, albeit for a fairer number of creatures. However, I disagree regarding Larceny, it sounds like you will have a good board state a lot of time, but if not, it can enough to paralyze a person so to speak, so you can focus on another threat. I realise at 5 mana this is pricey and I havent tested, but it doesn't feel completely win more to me.
I'll hopefully get to play once I've completed the last few cards I need.
Malicious Affliction seems very good in this type of deck, it is non-black, but two creatures for two is quite strong. Two other cards I am using that you don't seem to be are Larceny and Filth, which both make your creature hits more important and easier to hit. What are your thoughts on these?
There is also a weaker Phyrexian Dreadnaught in Phyrexian Soulgorger, which I am running, but creature base seems a reasonable point of divergence.