[B]@Taredas/Actual Forum Staff[/B] there's a deleted post somewhere in this thread (1674, I believe). Boo that person.
[B]@Nacho: I'm not ignoring you, but I find it peculiar you're looking at my first big post rather than my more recent reads. I'll respond to you when I'm not on mobile.
NotVoxx, I'll do you first today. Though I have a quick one to get out there right now:
Jobie: Do you have any reads other than Tom? What are they and why?
Thanks.
Hi Pengo, sorry I haven't responded to this yet.
I have a "weird" read on Plowshares. That is to say, there's something I don't like about his posts, but I'm not sure if it's a legit scum read or just a weird vibe. Posts like this and this. With regards to the latter (post 1533), I think Plow used the wrong potential logical fallacy. I get what he's saying, but I think Confirmation Bias fits better: I think Tom is scum, so going back I find all kinds of scummy things in his posts. I won't disagree that I'm tunneling, but that has less to do with my alignment and more to do with the confidence in my scum read of Tom.
Strong Town Reads:
Prowlingpengolin - Good effort scumhunting, has been consistent in posting style and logic. This is not just me buttering up Pengo.
Cyan - This is Cyan's town game. He's meandering between a number of players trying to find a wagon he likes. Maybe it's because I haven't seen a Cyan scum game this year, but TownCyan has seemed very "free-spirited" with his vote. Also, Vig.
Iso - Partly claimed role, but that early Iso v Cyan fight read very Town v Town to me. Kinda sad we forced Iso to claim this early
Medium Town Reads:
Tordeck - Tordeck could almost get moved up into the Strong Town read pile. I understand I just was in a game with rage-quit-y Tordeck where he was scum. But his rage is a different flavor this time.
Rhand - The longer he talked about his double-voter question, the more it made sense to me. Since we've moved on from that Rhand has been playing very townie.
Hawk - Interesting claim, but a weird way to do it. Worst case he gets NKed tonight, best case: he gets to utilize his back-up-ness.
Null Reads
NotVoxx - NotVoxx had some sketchy ass posts early in the game, but has been better since. Not sure if it's settling into the game or just not posting as scummy.
Vaimes - Early on was doing his best to be transparent, since then has slipped. He was one of my stronger early town reads, now he's here.
Tapping - Literally no read. I have no notes on him and that's actually kind of annoying.
Lurkers: (or **** YOU PEOPLE THAT HAVE LESS POSTS THAN ME)
Citric, Nacho, Voxx, MzztrTetris, Atog, Hansa: There has to be at least one scum in this group, right? It's almost 1/3 of the ******* player base. And I was gone for the first week of the game!
I think Citric is the towniest of the group, but the rest are a grab bag.
Other people:
Seppel - I guess I'll believe the survivor claim for the time being.
Chris - I think he's tied himself to Tom in a way I'm not sure townChris would do, regardless of Tom's alignment.
So I'm sitting at Scum Team of Chris, Tom, Plowshares/Lurker and Lurker. That still feels light for a game this size. *****.
V/LA until Jan 11 or 12 I'll be more "available" early next week but once Wednesday hits, I'm in that sprint until my wedding/1-day honeymoon. This also means my Tom case is on hiatus. Which sucks.
Cyan, how about you see if I'm right rather than dismissing my scum case. If I'm right on Tom, we lynch Chris today, if I'm wrong we can lynch me. I'll even join my own wagon out of embarrassment.
Tom. Is. Acting. Different. And I don't like it (in a "I think he's scum" way, not a "**** Tom, I wish he never used the internet" way).
again, i know im not that stupid, but if you dont its an important question.
Alright. I've been saying you're dumb, but I think I'm using the wrong adjectives to describe you. You're spammy and you don't know how to let the game breath. You make the game hard to read because of your posting frequency and style. The rate of posting makes it difficult to get a read on other players. I think your high volume of posts makes it likely for you to slip as scum and I think you've done that in this thread more than once and therefore I think you're scum. I don't dislike you personally, but you have behaviors that make me suspect of you frequently.
Sadly Tom's default setting on me is scum, so Chris is Chris and Chris is scum is pretty par for the course from Tom. Those aren't repositions, that's Tom having weird suspicions of me.
hey, im evolving. and i have been right 50% of the time. that seems pretty good
I do see that Jobie is, once again, pushing Tom for garbage reasons, which is frustrating to the point of almost being bad sportsmanship. I've seen Jobie express a dislike for Tom in literally every game they play together, and I haven't seen a single time where it seems like he's genuinely trying to understand or read him and this line of "he scumslipped and is really scum this time" is by far the worst I've seen of Jobie's long line of Tom pushes, and would love to call it fake as hell and thus coming from scum, but Jobie could just be that much of an ass.
There's a huge swath of players that I'd be willing to lynch today, a much smaller group that I have core town reads (looking something like Hawk, Tom, Cyan, Tordeck, TS, maybe Rhand if I'm feeling generous). Will make an effort to go through Vaimes posts since I'm hoping he's become much more transparent in recent times.
this is the reaction i was expecting from scum. making it a tossup between jobie being an ass and being scum.
nacho made lynching jobie "the right thing to do" regardless of flip.
but im probably stretching to look for what scumnacho would do here because i also basically agree with him.[/quote]I've read this comment 3 times and I can't tell which of the following scenarios Tom is describing:
1)He thinks Nacho gave a scum read of me by being wishy-washy for reasons and regarding my lynch
2)He likes Nacho because he gave the same read of my play as he has
3)
I don't think I will ever be convinced that the scumchat thing was anything but intentional.
Well, duh? Why does this mean it wouldn't come from scum?
hey, that was my point. it wasnt alignment indicative, but its obviously not a "slip" im just not that stupid. or lucky enough for it to just happen to be in the OP
Hey people from the invitational (spectators or actual players). Remember how I nailed scum when I replaced in and Chris immediately admonished me and Cyan jumped down my throat and called my case scummy? (Scum-Chris and Bad-Town-Cyan)... /comparesplayerlists
@Seppel/Rhand See above comment.
Just sayin'.
I guess I'll just have to slog through the 100's of Tom posts to actually make a singular case, so I can explain my view. I do think Chris and Tom are an aligned pair and I'll include that in said case. I don't think there's enough beer on this earth for this job.
I'd rather see Tom vigged than waste a lynch on him. It gets us so little information because Tom is so bad that people could jump on his wagon for any single reason and it would be legit.
im not sure that comparing your actions to those of his other scum read is going to help.
im still not sure why you asked privately. im not seeing the benefit.
These 6(!) posts are discussion of the Rhand question about Double Voter and Tom’s “LOL Claims r dumb” opinion with Cyan. Cyan discusses the peculiarity of discussing this in the opening of the thread. Due to our previous experience together, I understand this is Tom’s opinion on claims. When I was reading this thread from the side I found his wording peculiar. Tom isn’t particularly good at choosing his words and prefers to shoot from the hip. This works for him as a townie but makes him very transparent. There are a lot of things I don’t see a townie saying. Posts 13 and 31 are just weird to me. Speaking of weird:
@rhand what? i dont think you defending yourself in rvs is any help to the cause.
i think im just going to assume voxxicus and notvoxxicus are on different sides and figure out which is scummier.
The first half is trying to clarify the bolded part of 31, and just making it weirder. The 2nd seems like an opportunity to look like a “good townie” later when one of the Voxx’s flip scum (insiiiiide information)
Goddamnit, I’m already done with Public Enemy. Time for something apropos to the game flavor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owgOxV1V6Cc
@cyan its over already? still seems pretty random.
@chris i like to think of myself as more of a lazy ravenclaw, but hufflepuff is probably more accurate.
@rhand i meant its not going to help you with what you were doing, which is (i assume) making cyan think youre town.
i was right btw. it didnt help.
and yeah, obviously not serious about voxx/notvoxx. but it sure would be elegant if it worked out that way.
current standings put voxx as slightly townier. notvoxx is such a lurker.
LOL WE’RE NOT RANDOM ANYMORE?
LOL GUYS THAT WEIRD THING I SAID WAS TOTALLY RANDOM
Post 56 is not worth linking Post 58 is Tom’s first buddying to Chris. Despite the fact that he finds him scummy?
Post 61 is not worth linking
Post 63 is very interesting:
@pengo i dont care enough about your meta to start reading old games you were in.
The question is just a “LOOK AT ME I’M HELPING” questions rather than anything useful. Pengo refers to post 63 as “playing innocent”. Which I agree with a lot of Tom’s posts tonally. They aren’t actually innocent Tom, they’re Tom trying to be innocent Tom.
Tom saying dumb things. No wait dumb things isn’t the right term. It’s lies.
Post 72 is not worth linking Post 76/77 shows Tom will at least try to follow up on questions
cyan is townclearing people way too early. this seems dangerous, especially when chris is one of those people. i still think youre town, but dont be dumb
<snip>
This is another post I have trouble seeing coming out of a town mindset. Calls Cyan’s town reads sketchy, particularly about Chris.
Post 97 is not worth linking. (Good god, O/U I say that more than 25 times, >10% of his posts) Posts 100 & 107 These posts are a mess. I still can’t get that scum-chat slip out of my head:
thats the thing. chris prides himself on his scum game and town game being similar. townclearing him for a couple of posts on Day 1 seems like a lot of hubris. maybe cyan can read him, but its too soon.
so far, i just think hes chris.
Beyond literally his first 1-2 posts, I don't think tomsloger is being scummy at all. I think he has gotten progressively townier.
this is the problem man. i started out looking scummy and now im better so im town? scumchat is still open man. that doesnt mean *****
<snip>
He back-pedals on his “Chris is guilty until proven innocent” standpoint to a “Chris is just Chris, right now” stance. (A side case of the “Seppel is Seppel” tell?), then questions Cyan’s switch in his read because scum-chat is still open? I have no idea how Tom hasn’t been lynched on this solely. It. Does. Not. Make. Sense. Posts 109, 110, & 116 are tiptoeing away from his slip. He also blatantly ignores the main question at the end of Post 114 by Pengo. Post 126 is a continuation of the above conversation (and more dodging by Tom)
Post 131 is not worth linking Post 195 I already talked about the Pengo Weirdness. He claims he’s tried to scumhunt, but there’s nothing here. He has a lot of @comments that are not useful.
Aaand that's all I have the energy to go through. I have wedding ***** to do.
Trying to draw parallels between you attacking Tom in this game and you attacking Proph in the Invitational is a joke. Get real. And for all that you're calling Chris scum now, you jumped on his Tordeck vote in a millisecond. After initially chastising me for declaring him town, of course.
Right, because you don't place votes that you disagree with shortly afterwards.
@ Jobie - Then make a proper case. It didn't take all of my scum masterminding to note your case in the invitational wasn't up to snuff, something you yourself admitted to. This reads as a tired record, and you were not town either time you have done this song and dance before. I do not like it when people target others over multiple games, and until you actually make a worthwhile case I think this is exactly what is happening here.
I will when I have free time again. The only reason I didn't put more effort into the Proph case was total loss of confidence due to the smack down laid upon me and lack of time due to my busy ******* RL (and 2.5 games going on).
So in short...Jobie is bussing Tom, who is soft bussing me, and I am bussing Jobie who in turn uses my bus of him to bus me and cement his bussing of Tom.
Yeah, that sounds like something you'd think I'd cook up. Carry on.
Hey people from the invitational (spectators or actual players). Remember how I nailed scum when I replaced in and Chris immediately admonished me and Cyan jumped down my throat and called my case scummy? (Scum-Chris and Bad-Town-Cyan)... /comparesplayerlists
@Seppel/Rhand See above comment.
Just sayin'.
I guess I'll just have to slog through the 100's of Tom posts to actually make a singular case, so I can explain my view. I do think Chris and Tom are an aligned pair and I'll include that in said case. I don't think there's enough beer on this earth for this job.
Angry/frustrated Tordeck isn't scum. I also don't like the Vaimes case and will continue my weak town read of him. Back to the salt mine.
I don't think Tordeck is scum but in predator he was "angry/frustrated" right before he flipped scum. Why do you think being angry/frustrated town clears Tordeck?
This is different. It feels more genuine... I can't place how exactly.
Are there any wagons that Tom has refused to join? They must be few and far between. That might be where his buddies lie if he flips scum. I commented earlier that he keeps trying to "hitch a ride" on whatever wagons look popular. It's scummy as all hell and I don't recall Tom doing this in the other games.
i can help with this. i refused to join iso, pengo, jobie, notvoxx, and atog wagons of various sizes. i think those people are town.
also vaimes, but im waffling there. still think hes town overall, but there has been some scumminess.
im trying to jump to other wagons because the ones i really want to be on (hawk, nacho, plowshares, and tordeck/chris to a lesser extent) dont seem to be going anywhere. should i just check in every couple of days to see if any of them become feasible lynches?
but yeah, ive been halfhearted in my attempts to go someplace else. i think ive already found 3-5 scum. if enough people scumread any of them, you can be sure i will be here with a list and try to make a lynch happen.
until then, ill read other cases and see if anyone can convince me of their reads. which, to be fair, has not really happened much in my mafia career. i fall too in love with my own opinions to listen to others'. im working on it.
So of the "wagons" Tom has refused to join he includes:
1) Me - who has received 0 votes this game
2) Not - Who has received 2 votes (Pengo in 421 & Seppel in 1132), though the votes were concurrent, I don't consider that a wagon
3) Atog - Who has received 2 votes (Seppel in 255 & Vaimes in 708), though the votes were concurrent, I don't consider that a wagon
4) Vaimes - Who not only did Tom vote for (1186), but wasn't a wagon when he voted for him (unless being the 2nd vote after /barn'ing Cyan based on Citrics PBPA is a wagon)
I'll give him credit for Iso and Pengo.
Then we have wagons that Tom has joined:
1) Hawk - who has received 4 vote(r)s (TS in 440, Pengo (993, 1002 & 1067 due to colon issues), Plowshares in 1140 & Tom in 355, 1152 & 1262), TS's vote left by the time Tom placed his vote there for a 2nd time; 3 votes, a wagon does not make.
2) Nacho - has received 1 vote (Tom in 945/989 due to colon issues) - Not a wagon
3) Plowshares - has received 2 votes (Rhand in 163 & Citric in 1383) - 2 issues: A) Tom hasn't actually voted for this; B) neither vote is concurrent; this is not a wagon
4) Tordeck - Has received 4 votes (Cyan (multiple), Chris in 1302, Seppel in 1308, & Jobie in 1316), This is a wagon, but it didn't have Tom.
5) Chris - Has received 4 votes (Pengo in 59, Rhand in 314, Tordeck in 543 & 1300 and Iso in 667), This was a wagon-ish, but again lacked a vote from Tom.
Can we please go back to the crowning jewel of MTGS Mafia: Lynch All Lorans Lynch All Liars
[B]@Taredas/Actual Forum Staff[/B] there's a deleted post somewhere in this thread (1674, I believe). Boo that person.
[B]@Nacho: I'm not ignoring you, but I find it peculiar you're looking at my first big post rather than my more recent reads. I'll respond to you when I'm not on mobile.
I have a "weird" read on Plowshares. That is to say, there's something I don't like about his posts, but I'm not sure if it's a legit scum read or just a weird vibe. Posts like this and this. With regards to the latter (post 1533), I think Plow used the wrong potential logical fallacy. I get what he's saying, but I think Confirmation Bias fits better: I think Tom is scum, so going back I find all kinds of scummy things in his posts. I won't disagree that I'm tunneling, but that has less to do with my alignment and more to do with the confidence in my scum read of Tom.
Strong Town Reads:
Prowlingpengolin - Good effort scumhunting, has been consistent in posting style and logic. This is not just me buttering up Pengo.
Cyan - This is Cyan's town game. He's meandering between a number of players trying to find a wagon he likes. Maybe it's because I haven't seen a Cyan scum game this year, but TownCyan has seemed very "free-spirited" with his vote. Also, Vig.
Iso - Partly claimed role, but that early Iso v Cyan fight read very Town v Town to me. Kinda sad we forced Iso to claim this early
Medium Town Reads:
Tordeck - Tordeck could almost get moved up into the Strong Town read pile. I understand I just was in a game with rage-quit-y Tordeck where he was scum. But his rage is a different flavor this time.
Rhand - The longer he talked about his double-voter question, the more it made sense to me. Since we've moved on from that Rhand has been playing very townie.
Hawk - Interesting claim, but a weird way to do it. Worst case he gets NKed tonight, best case: he gets to utilize his back-up-ness.
Null Reads
NotVoxx - NotVoxx had some sketchy ass posts early in the game, but has been better since. Not sure if it's settling into the game or just not posting as scummy.
Vaimes - Early on was doing his best to be transparent, since then has slipped. He was one of my stronger early town reads, now he's here.
Tapping - Literally no read. I have no notes on him and that's actually kind of annoying.
Lurkers: (or **** YOU PEOPLE THAT HAVE LESS POSTS THAN ME)
Citric, Nacho, Voxx, MzztrTetris, Atog, Hansa: There has to be at least one scum in this group, right? It's almost 1/3 of the ******* player base. And I was gone for the first week of the game!
I think Citric is the towniest of the group, but the rest are a grab bag.
Other people:
Seppel - I guess I'll believe the survivor claim for the time being.
Chris - I think he's tied himself to Tom in a way I'm not sure townChris would do, regardless of Tom's alignment.
So I'm sitting at Scum Team of Chris, Tom, Plowshares/Lurker and Lurker. That still feels light for a game this size. *****.
V/LA until Jan 11 or 12 I'll be more "available" early next week but once Wednesday hits, I'm in that sprint until my wedding/1-day honeymoon. This also means my Tom case is on hiatus. Which sucks.
Tom. Is. Acting. Different. And I don't like it (in a "I think he's scum" way, not a "**** Tom, I wish he never used the internet" way).
B) It's anti-fun
C) the WIFOM involved would make that not worth it.
Alright. I've been saying you're dumb, but I think I'm using the wrong adjectives to describe you. You're spammy and you don't know how to let the game breath. You make the game hard to read because of your posting frequency and style. The rate of posting makes it difficult to get a read on other players. I think your high volume of posts makes it likely for you to slip as scum and I think you've done that in this thread more than once and therefore I think you're scum. I don't dislike you personally, but you have behaviors that make me suspect of you frequently.
this is the reaction i was expecting from scum. making it a tossup between jobie being an ass and being scum.
nacho made lynching jobie "the right thing to do" regardless of flip.
but im probably stretching to look for what scumnacho would do here because i also basically agree with him.[/quote]I've read this comment 3 times and I can't tell which of the following scenarios Tom is describing:
1)He thinks Nacho gave a scum read of me by being wishy-washy for reasons and regarding my lynch
2)He likes Nacho because he gave the same read of my play as he has
3)
Post 10: RVS on Tordeck
Posts 13, 15, 18, 24, and 31:
These 6(!) posts are discussion of the Rhand question about Double Voter and Tom’s “LOL Claims r dumb” opinion with Cyan. Cyan discusses the peculiarity of discussing this in the opening of the thread. Due to our previous experience together, I understand this is Tom’s opinion on claims. When I was reading this thread from the side I found his wording peculiar. Tom isn’t particularly good at choosing his words and prefers to shoot from the hip. This works for him as a townie but makes him very transparent. There are a lot of things I don’t see a townie saying. Posts 13 and 31 are just weird to me. Speaking of weird:
The first half is trying to clarify the bolded part of 31, and just making it weirder. The 2nd seems like an opportunity to look like a “good townie” later when one of the Voxx’s flip scum (insiiiiide information)
Goddamnit, I’m already done with Public Enemy. Time for something apropos to the game flavor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owgOxV1V6Cc
LOL WE’RE NOT RANDOM ANYMORE?
LOL GUYS THAT WEIRD THING I SAID WAS TOTALLY RANDOM
Post 56 is not worth linking
Post 58 is Tom’s first buddying to Chris. Despite the fact that he finds him scummy?
Post 61 is not worth linking
Post 63 is very interesting:
Tom discusses his previous games and then asks Pengo for his meta. The thing is… (let’s jump ahead to Post 195):
The question is just a “LOOK AT ME I’M HELPING” questions rather than anything useful. Pengo refers to post 63 as “playing innocent”. Which I agree with a lot of Tom’s posts tonally. They aren’t actually innocent Tom, they’re Tom trying to be innocent Tom.
Tom saying dumb things. No wait dumb things isn’t the right term. It’s lies.
Post 72 is not worth linking
Post 76/77 shows Tom will at least try to follow up on questions
This is another post I have trouble seeing coming out of a town mindset. Calls Cyan’s town reads sketchy, particularly about Chris.
Post 97 is not worth linking. (Good god, O/U I say that more than 25 times, >10% of his posts)
Posts 100 & 107 These posts are a mess. I still can’t get that scum-chat slip out of my head:
He back-pedals on his “Chris is guilty until proven innocent” standpoint to a “Chris is just Chris, right now” stance. (A side case of the “Seppel is Seppel” tell?), then questions Cyan’s switch in his read because scum-chat is still open? I have no idea how Tom hasn’t been lynched on this solely. It. Does. Not. Make. Sense.
Posts 109, 110, & 116 are tiptoeing away from his slip. He also blatantly ignores the main question at the end of Post 114 by Pengo.
Post 126 is a continuation of the above conversation (and more dodging by Tom)
Post 131 is not worth linking
Post 195 I already talked about the Pengo Weirdness. He claims he’s tried to scumhunt, but there’s nothing here. He has a lot of @comments that are not useful.
Aaand that's all I have the energy to go through. I have wedding ***** to do.
@Seppel/Rhand See above comment.
Just sayin'.
I guess I'll just have to slog through the 100's of Tom posts to actually make a singular case, so I can explain my view. I do think Chris and Tom are an aligned pair and I'll include that in said case. I don't think there's enough beer on this earth for this job.
This Tom is blatantly spouting lies and has scum slipped. Set the chainsaw down Chris, we'll take care of you tomorrow.
So of the "wagons" Tom has refused to join he includes:
1) Me - who has received 0 votes this game
2) Not - Who has received 2 votes (Pengo in 421 & Seppel in 1132), though the votes were concurrent, I don't consider that a wagon
3) Atog - Who has received 2 votes (Seppel in 255 & Vaimes in 708), though the votes were concurrent, I don't consider that a wagon
4) Vaimes - Who not only did Tom vote for (1186), but wasn't a wagon when he voted for him (unless being the 2nd vote after /barn'ing Cyan based on Citrics PBPA is a wagon)
I'll give him credit for Iso and Pengo.
Then we have wagons that Tom has joined:
1) Hawk - who has received 4 vote(r)s (TS in 440, Pengo (993, 1002 & 1067 due to colon issues), Plowshares in 1140 & Tom in 355, 1152 & 1262), TS's vote left by the time Tom placed his vote there for a 2nd time; 3 votes, a wagon does not make.
2) Nacho - has received 1 vote (Tom in 945/989 due to colon issues) - Not a wagon
3) Plowshares - has received 2 votes (Rhand in 163 & Citric in 1383) - 2 issues: A) Tom hasn't actually voted for this; B) neither vote is concurrent; this is not a wagon
4) Tordeck - Has received 4 votes (Cyan (multiple), Chris in 1302, Seppel in 1308, & Jobie in 1316), This is a wagon, but it didn't have Tom.
5) Chris - Has received 4 votes (Pengo in 59, Rhand in 314, Tordeck in 543 & 1300 and Iso in 667), This was a wagon-ish, but again lacked a vote from Tom.
Can we please go back to the crowning jewel of MTGS Mafia:
Lynch All LoransLynch All LiarsConfirm Vote: Tomsloger
Angry/frustrated Tordeck isn't scum. I also don't like the Vaimes case and will continue my weak town read of him. Back to the salt mine.
(I'm currently at half of my in-laws to be. Just be happy yours aren't divorced and remarried. It doubles the "fun")