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  • posted a message on indomitable creativity deck


    Does this have a place in this deck? I was already eyeing up a UR list with Faithless Looting and Izzet Charm. I think this deck would want ways to ditch our creatures for them to get shuffled back into the deck with Emrakul's trigger. And for only 1 mana for a flier is a great rate.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on indomitable creativity deck
    The Burn matchup is a bear Game One. Been playing several games and win rate game one is probably something like 25-33%. Life loss happens so fast that if you don't combo off turn 3/4 or it gets shut down that it may be too late to combo off again. I'm now even thinking about Pelakka Wurm in the SB for some possible life gain. Yet again if it gets stopped by removal of a token there is that or it may not even come out as a 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 chance. Burn matchup = bad. Frown

    Any life gain options out there for the SB?


    What about boarding out all the fatties and bringing in some number of Resolute Archangel and/or Baneslayer Angel? Every Creativity resets your life. No way a burn player can come back from that.
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on G/x Ramp
    Quote from Effort9 »
    Also not sure if it just is an issue with XMage bug on the card, but Sylvan Advocate does not work with Wall of Resurgence - the lands remain 3/3s. Could just be an XMage bug on the card - haven't been able to find a ruling on it. I expected all land creatures, no matter if they are "elemental" ones to benefit from it.


    Yes that is definitely a bug. The creature created with the wall is still a land. Advocate pumps up land creatures.


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    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on G/x Ramp
    Hey all, sleeving this deck up again for a PPTQ this weekend but I have not played standard much over the past few months. I see this thread doesn't have a match-up guide, is there anywhere I can get a crash course on playing this deck in the current general meta?...or at least some general things to look out for during certain m/u's? I played this deck for an SCG Open a few months back before Oath came out so I'm not completely new to it. I don't have a list yet but it will look a lot like Effort9's post rotation build with Ugin's added to the main, probably a 2/2 split with Ugin and Chandra, and also taking out Hangarback Walkers for K.Return or Matter Reshaper.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from ChewyWumpus
    Nice, yeah that's pretty much exactly what I'm talking about, I'd posted a very similar list on tappedout:
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/all-in-white-1/

    Fortify and the spears are a must, though i was considering righteous charge and profit as well. We're not really gaining much by the instant speed of fortify as if we're using it defencively in the opponents turn we've probably already lost with this deck.

    I like azorius arrester over imposing sovereign here as well as imposing sovereign encourages you to play her on turn two as you have to be preemptive. - I think really you want to play as many one drops as possible and then maybe an arrester to get around a reckoner on turn 3 or 4 if you need to.


    I would urge you not to cut Imposing Sovereign as it's one of our best cards in a lot of matchups. Against GW, it shuts down flashed in Wurm tokens, Boon Satyrs, Skylashers, etc. Against GR Monsters, it shuts down Xenagos tokens, Stormbreaths, etc. Mono Black it stops instant speed Pack Rat tokens on defense. Against any Obzedat decks, it stops them from being able to exile him in and out..and against everything else, it buys you an extra turn most of the time.

    Don't get me wrong, Arrester can serve a purpose. I had been playing two Arresters in the main for a while (alongside 3x Sovereigns) and I eventually went down to one, and I'm thinking of cutting the last one as well.

    As for Fortify, I don't see it being any better than what you've taken out for it, which looks like Banisher Priest. Banisher Priest is pure tempo, as you're removing their best threat for at least a turn, and adding another of your threats. Fortify isn't a tempo swing as you're either using it on your turn to have maybe a few of your creatures survive a sweeper, or using it on offense to get damage through. However even then you're going to be trading your creatures for theirs a lot of the time. And being a three drop, won't do anything on the draw against Drown in Sorrow.

    I would rather remove their threats with Priest, Orzhov Charm, etc.


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    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from Darkestb4dawn
    So what does everyon think about sideboarding Fortify to deal with Drown in Sorrow? The advantage is that it can be used offensively to deal lethal as well as defensively to keep the weenies alive!


    Don't tell me everyone is abandoning this deck cause of one card spoiled! Come on! Grin

    Seriously though, I'm just thinking about upping the number of Thoughtseize and/or Duress in the sideboard to combat Drown in Sorrow. Also Fortify would work as well. And playing some more creatures with 3+ toughness will help to mitigate this as well (Brimaz, I'm looking at you).

    I'm going to reserve judgment until the whole set is spoiled, but I haven't seen anything yet that makes me want to abandon the deck.



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    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from ekul king
    I'm on the two two Ajani/Spear mix right now and I think it's better than having more Ajani's. The spear is really good in some situations where Ajani does nothing and Ajani is good at getting damage through in situations where your opponent thinks they have you locked up. I think moving Xathrid to the board is good as the only deck I really bring him in against is Esper and UW control.


    I too am sold on this. I just got back from an SCG Super IQ. Lost in the top 8 round to Gerrard Fabiano (more on that match later) but Ajani single-handedly won me countless games I would have otherwise lost. I hope to write up a report soon but my brain is mush at this point.


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    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from Col
    Hi. This is the deck I plan to take to a ptq soon. Sorry about the format but I 'm on my phone!

    4x boros elite
    4x soldier of the pantheon
    4x daring skyjek
    4x cavalry pegasus
    4x precinct captain
    4x banisher priest
    4x fiendslayer paladin
    2x spear of heliod
    2x ajani, caller of the pride
    3x brave the elements
    3x boros charm
    3x mutavault
    4x temple of triumph
    4x sacred foundry
    11x plains

    Sideboard
    3x mizzium mortars
    1x boros charm
    1x brave the elements
    2x sundering growth
    2x glare of heresy
    3x burning earth
    2x pithing needle
    1x celestial flare

    What do you guys think?


    Is there a reason why you're not running 4x Mutavaults other than budget reasons? If not, without a doubt 4x Mutavaults is correct in this deck for many, many reasons. Mutavault and Brave the Elements are your two best cards, which brings me to my next point, why only 3x Brave in the MD? It's so versatile in this deck that running anything less than 4x just seems wrong. I guess after side boarding, some number of them can come out but I would always start with 4x main. Other than that, I am curious to hear how Cavalry Pegasus and Fiendslayer both 4x in the main works out for you.

    Quote from iamghost
    i am testing for a PTQ i will attend on the 19th of january and i am not sold to the black splash list. i used to run red before everybody made the switch so i tried the black one but i cannot really find myself in love with it. Boros charm is a finisher i miss too much and it was our only way to get out of verdict. Ajani too seemed great to get those flying damages we needed to win the game once it stalled. now if the game stalls we lose. somebody else is feeling like i do and misses the red version?


    I too played the red splash at first but have since been convinced the black splash is superior. And like you, my main grievance was letting go of Boros Charm. However, black offers Xathrid Necromancer which is a fine replacement. On the one hand, you give up indestructibility for black zombies which aren't white which plays against Brave. But on the other hand, even when your opponent doesn't play Supreme Verdict, the Xathrid Necromancer is still doing a lot of work.

    As for the damage afforded with Boros Charm, I found that to be negligible since this deck is so explosive as is. For example, let's look at what Boros Charm gets replaced with in the black splash – Orzhov Charm. Orzhov Charm is simply made for this deck. Whereas with Boros Charm you deal the extra 4 damage, Orzhov Charm can deal with major road blocks your opponent can throw at us. So you get a creature out of the way and now it's essentially doing the same damage that Boros Charm did just in the form of unblocked creatures. Of course there are times when your opponent is at 4 and you just kill them then and there but this is one of the trade-offs. I like the long-term playability that Orzhov Charm offers.

    Look at the other modes...returning a one-drop back to play at instant speed. With all the one-drops in this deck, this is a very good ability. It allows you to recover from a Verdict much quicker, or add that extra 2 damage your opponent didn't account for. Returning a creature back to your hand allows you to "reset" your Banisher Priest to handle a larger threat, or save a creature from dying.

    But what really got me on the black splash was what the sideboard opens up to you, Doom Blade and Thoughtseize being the two biggest reasons. Also Profit // Loss is another great addition to the 75. Also, against a White Weenie mirror, the black splash has just a little more firepower than the red splash and gets even better out of the board.

    So the elephant in the room is how does this not just roll over to Blood Baron of V? Before you had Mizzium Mortars to help with this, but now you are B/W, both colors that BBoV has protection from. Well, if Thoughtseize can't drag one out of your opponent's grip, you have Renounce the Guilds (my preferred method) or Celestial Flare to deal with him. And some people are starting to board Pay No Heed as a way to fend him off for one turn which sometimes is all you need (also good against Rw Devotion). Black also allows you to play edict effects if you so choose.

    And you can play Ajani no matter what list you choose. Some people prefer all their Xathrid Necromancers in the SB and choose to play 2x Ajani maindeck. I've played both ways but I'm still not sure what I prefer. In a control-heavy meta, you'd want the Xathrid's in the MD, but in a G/R monsters-heavy meta, you'd want Ajani.



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    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from Big Hat
    I ran it back when I did the mono white version. It pretty much won any game in which it stayed on the board, but it's really easy to remove. It's definitely worth running if you can make room.

    On a different note, is there any way to improve the Rw devotion matchup? I've been losing every single game so far. I'm running a Wb version:



    (The sideboard is always a work in progress.)


    This is the first list I've seen to run 3x Spears and 21x lands. How has this worked for you? I'm not sure it's a good idea to run 3x Spears since they are just dead in multiples. Has the land count been an issue for you at all?
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from chrisb3
    I'm curious how often issues around multiples of Imposing Sovereign happen as the second wouldn't actually do anything other than be a 2/1.
    I've been holding off getting 3-4 and using a Cavalry Pegasus and considering Azorious Arrester too in that spot, because I'm worried about getting 2-3 of them and lacking the power needed to win.

    Same thing with Spear of Heliod and using an Ajani instead of a second copy.


    Imposing Sovereign is one of the best creatures in your deck, and she'll always draw removal so having that backup is a good thing.

    As for Spear, I've only seen two in the same game once and yeah, it's a blank card but worth it to have 2x in the deck IMO. I'd rather have a dead card in hand than get blown out by Shrivel or Electrickery also.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from Organic_Buffalo
    The first sideboard card that comes to mind against any green based deck with a white deck is boros reckoner. Other than that maybe gift of orzhova if they aren't running arbor colossus.


    That's actually a really nice suggestion. Even if they have Arbor Colossus, you're going to board in Doom Blade anyway. As long as they don't have enough mana to cast and monstrify Arbor Colossus in the same turn without Doom Blade mana open, this might be enough to turn the tide.

    EDIT: to clarify, the Gift of Orzhov suggestion was nice, not Reckoner for the reasons Invis. Stalker mentioned below.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from robokevin
    Hello Spikes.

    This is my first post in the competitive forum. I read the rules and I hope it's OK for me to post here. I have PT experience (but never made day 2). However, I just started playing again (about a month ago) after almost 15 years off. So I am kind of green right now, please bear with me. But, my interest in magic is, and was in the past, solely for the competitive aspect, so I have been lurking this forum for quite some time.

    I am wondering if anyone else is still running mono white. I started out running Clownstabber's mono white fortify deck (in the budget forum), and it was very successful. Since then, I have dropped the "budget" aspect, and have also built the WW/r and WW/b decks, which I know are more often seen in the meta, especially WW/b recently.

    I have played several matches with each deck, and I am just getting better records with mono white. The mono white deck is extremely consistent with the only matchups giving me grief being red (in which I side in fiendslayer paladin .. and maybe renounce the guilds if he is running a full suite of frostburns/reckoners) and mono black (actually a ~50% win rate against mono black, but it's a matchup I fear for some reason).

    I initially was attracted to WW/b because I was very scared of supreme verdict when I started playing this deck and I saw Xathid as a way around that. But, I don't find it to be too much of a problem with this deck as long as we don't overextend. Azorious control is pretty much like a bye, and Esper Control is a good matchup round 1 and even better after siding in Renounce (gets dsphere and blood baron). And the other mass removal spells that are actually played (AoTG, overloaded mortars, sometimes electrickery) can be stopped by Brave (and even Xathrid can't stop AoTG).

    WW/b offers a whole lot of removal options but I'm just not sure if they help enough to have to deal with lands coming into play tapped.

    Then I looked at WW/r because of reach. I had great results with the old Type 1.X PT Jank deck (WW with lightning bolts) back in 1997-1998 (did I mention I'm old?) and this deck is a similar concept. But I could never get the beatdown consistency that mono white offers. And reach doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, despite what it looks like on paper. We have a number of ways of getting a late game swing in, even in mono white: Brave, Skyjeks, Fortify (though I have stopped playing it), Ajani, sometimes even Banisher Priest.

    Anyway my own experiences are telling me that mono white is working out as good or better, but the splashes are much more popular at competitive levels. Am I off base here, or has anyone else had the same experience?

    FWIW, right now I play on MTGO (2-man tournaments and dailies) mainly so it's a bit of an "everything" meta, but there is a whole lot of Mono B or Mono U devotion. I will enter this in a $1,000 standard tournament, an IQ, and some MTGO premiers in the very near future, so I should be able to get some good data.

    Here's the list:






    Welcome back to the game!

    I've been playing some form of white weenie for the past couple of months. Started with the W/r splash and am now on the W/b splash which I believe is much more versatile, yet slightly less powerful. However, it's got a much better matchup against control which I've been seeing more of in my meta.

    I would say that there is really no downside to having a splash...in fact, I would say you're just limiting yourself without a splash of either black or red. Basically the two colors with an on-color Temple land. Even though they come into play tapped, the scry ability is very much worth it. The reason why you won't have any issue here is our curve is so low, you shouldn't run into any issues with a tapped land on turns 1-3. Obviously you play the Temple land on turn 1 if you don't have a one drop, but most times you do and it's correct to play it on turn 1 always. Then most of the time you can hold your tap land as your third or fourth land to ensure you draw more gas.

    I would seriously consider a splash color also just for the added options it opens up for your sideboard.

    Here is my list:

    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer]White Weenie
    Quote from Thundermonty
    Here's my sideboarding notes I have put together:

    Mono Blue(5/5):
    -2 Xathrid Necromancer = +1 Doom Blade +1 Orzhov Charm

    Esper Control(5/5):
    -4 Brave The Elements -1 Orzhov Charm = +2 Thoughtseize +3 Celestial Flare
    -4 Banisher Priest = +2 Sin Collector +2 Xathrid Necromancer

    UW Control(4/5):
    -4 Brave The Elements = +2 Sin Collector +2 Thoughtseize
    -3 Banisher Preist = +1 Orzhov Charm +2 Xathrid Necromancer

    Mono Black(3.5/5):
    -4 Brave the Elements = +2 Thoughtseize +2 Xathrid Necromancer
    -3 Imposing Sovereign = +2 Dark Betrayal +1 Celestial Flare

    Red/RW Devotion(3.5/5):
    -2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Spear of Heliod -2 Orzhov Charm = +3 Doom Blade +3 Celestial Flare

    G/r Devotion(3/5):
    -2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Spear of Heliod = +3 Doom Blade +1 Orzhov Charm

    B/W Control(2/5):
    -2 Xathrid Necromancer = +2 Thoughtseize
    -2 Spear of Heliod = +2 Dark Betrayal
    -4 Banisher Priest = +1 Orzhov Charm +3 Celestial Flare

    RDW(?):
    -2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Spear of Heliod = +3 Doom Blade +1 Orzhov Charm

    White Weenie(?):
    -2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Banisher Priest = +1 Orzhov Charm +3 Doom Blade

    The "(X/5)" next to each deck type is how I feel the deck ran in our testing, the higher number being better.
    This deck is best against Control decks and Mono color decks.
    Ramp devotion decks like G/R and R/W are kind of just a matter of who wins the die roll.
    I've yet to test the aggro decks that don't use devotion (unlike Mono Blue) such as RDW and White Weenie.

    This is just my findings through testing. If you guys feel I need to board differently or that I am underestimating/ overestimating any decks, then let me know.

    P.S. I'd rather not even talk about the B/W "Control" matchup....


    Few points...

    I'm not sure boarding out all your Brave the Elements is ever correct. Next to Mutavault, it's probably the best card in the deck. Especially against a deck like Mono Black with all targeted removal, blanking their entire third turn with a wasted Hero's Downfall is full of win. And if they ever get Pack Rat on board, Brave is about the only way you're going to get anything through. Also for Mono Black, Imposing Sovereign is still good just to minimize the effectiveness of Pack Rat tokens, keeping up pressure as well as drawing opponent's removal. It is correct to keep Spear in this matchup as you noted so you don't get blown out by Shrivel.

    Against UWB/UW control decks, Brave is still good against Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Last Breath, Hero's Downfall, Doom Blade, Cyclonic Rift as well as getting past Elspeth tokens.

    I can see taking out some number of it but usually I never board out more than 2x. Obviously all your Xathrid Necro's come in for these matchups. I like 2 Brave/4 Necro's usually for this matchup just cause with more Necro's, Brave gets slightly worse.

    Also against RW Devotion, I don't think Celestial Flare is worth the addition (or anywhere in your 75 for that matter). I assume it's there for Stormbreath here? In my experience, Stormbreath isn't the thing that really kills you, it's the fast start with Ash Zealot, BTE, Frostburn Weird into a Fanatic of Mogis. Most times a RW devotion player doesn't need to attack to win...and most times you see them bust out two creatures and a Fanatic in one turn which gives you no time to use the Flare.

    And actually Xathrid Necromancer at least stays in if not more added to combat an overloaded Mortars which is easy to pull off in that deck. Sure, Anger of the Gods can still get you, but that's why Brave stays in. I agree with the Doom Blade/Orzhov Charm switch. I don't agree with taking out all of your Spears though. Chandra Pyromaster absolutely WRECKS this deck and Spear is your best answer for her.


    If you're looking for a card that does what Celestial Flare does but is more versatile, I would suggest Renounce the Guilds. Its main use is against Blood Baron of V...another card that wrecks this deck. Against Stormbreath decks, you already have Doom Blade, but Renounce is good in this matchup too because you need to keep their devotion count as low as possible. Getting a BTE, Reckoner, or Weird off the board is very important. In this matchup, it reads "Opponent sacs a creature and you gain up to 3 life." I play 2x in the board and usually board out a Dryad Militant or 2 for it.

    One thing this deck as problems with also is a turn two Domri Rade and Renounce takes care of that card nicely.


    EDIT: for reference my maindeck is identical to yours. My sideboard contains a few changes...Renounce the Guilds obviously and also includes Fiendslayer Paladin against red deck wins and mono black.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Mana Crypt in Vintage?
    Hey you Vintage players, I was thinking about unloading my Mana Crypt since I mostly play Legacy and Standard, and only play EDH once in a blue moon. I didn't even know it was legal in Vintage until recently. My question is even though it's legal, does it ever see any play? I was just wondering in case I would ever get into Vintage, I would just keep it. However if it's not even played, then I wouldn't feel bad unloading it now. Thanks!
    Posted in: Vintage (Type 1)
  • posted a message on [General] Junk Rites
    Why are so many decks abandoning Craterhoof even in the SB? It gives the deck so much reach and can win out of nowhere. I know Lingering Souls isn't in as many lists anymore but even without it, it still just wins.

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    Posted in: Standard Archives
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