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Quote from cfusionpm »The new tech for Hogaak is Hedron Crab. It's pretty good. Like, still disturbingly good, according to the guy who 5-0'd FNM with it last night, and put 20 power into play by turn 2 against me.
Quote from Aazadan » Yes, sorry I had meant convoke not delve. You need black or green creatures to convoke for Hogaak so any tokens (or creatures) that aren’t those colors have significantly reduced value. But, I agree that it’s a good thing that there’s not a clear replacement for Bridge.
Quote from Aazadan »Quote from Mortal Coil »Quote from icehippo »I don’t expect Bridgevine to stay competitive without one of its namesake cards so I suppose the meta will go back to the pre Horizons meta of decks like Humans, Azorius Control, Izzet Phoenix, Dredge, Tron, and Amulet Titan. So basically big mana will come back and Dredge will take back its place as the go to graveyard deck. And then decks that have been rising in the Horizon meta like Eldrazi Tron, Mono Red Phoenix, and Jund will get knocked back down a little because of the return of big mana. I dunno man. My guess is that the Hogaak deck will stay pretty much the same, and still be very competitive. I'm not 100% sure what the next best replacement for Bridge is, but Narcomoeba has worked well enough for me. Haunted Dead is also pretty interesting. Neither of those make creatures that you can delve though. On the other hand Xathrid Necromancer does create free zombies. But, I can't think of any humans with the proper recursion to enable that as a pseudo bridge aside from maybe Loyal Cathar.
Quote from Mortal Coil »Quote from icehippo »I don’t expect Bridgevine to stay competitive without one of its namesake cards so I suppose the meta will go back to the pre Horizons meta of decks like Humans, Azorius Control, Izzet Phoenix, Dredge, Tron, and Amulet Titan. So basically big mana will come back and Dredge will take back its place as the go to graveyard deck. And then decks that have been rising in the Horizon meta like Eldrazi Tron, Mono Red Phoenix, and Jund will get knocked back down a little because of the return of big mana. I dunno man. My guess is that the Hogaak deck will stay pretty much the same, and still be very competitive. I'm not 100% sure what the next best replacement for Bridge is, but Narcomoeba has worked well enough for me. Haunted Dead is also pretty interesting.
Quote from icehippo »I don’t expect Bridgevine to stay competitive without one of its namesake cards so I suppose the meta will go back to the pre Horizons meta of decks like Humans, Azorius Control, Izzet Phoenix, Dredge, Tron, and Amulet Titan. So basically big mana will come back and Dredge will take back its place as the go to graveyard deck. And then decks that have been rising in the Horizon meta like Eldrazi Tron, Mono Red Phoenix, and Jund will get knocked back down a little because of the return of big mana.
Quote from Stille_Nacht » Neither Narcomoeba nor Haunted Dead do anything close to bridge.
Quote from Stille_Nacht » Carrion Feeder and Altar of Dementia are very meh without bridge and those cards certainly don't help. Also, a big problem without bridge is that a deck can now just eventually match you card for card.
Quote from Stille_Nacht » Deck will certainly look very different or just not exist really.
Quote from FoodChainGoblins »Quote from cfusionpm »Extremely disappointed not to see any unbans. If there was ever a time to do it, it's alongside a large and predictable ban. Also lots of words about Faithless Looting (and other things) here: http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/38840_Was-Banning-Bridge-From-Below-In-Modern-The-Right-Call.html As much as I hate to vote for the fella, I sided mostly with Cedric Phillips. Regarding Rampaging Ferocidon, if nobody cares, then why not unban it? I personally know some locals who actually do care. I do not understand the Ban decision. Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis is only $4 right now. Altar of Dementia is only $3 right now. They don't need these cards to sell the set, unlike the Eldrazi.
Quote from cfusionpm »Extremely disappointed not to see any unbans. If there was ever a time to do it, it's alongside a large and predictable ban. Also lots of words about Faithless Looting (and other things) here: http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/38840_Was-Banning-Bridge-From-Below-In-Modern-The-Right-Call.html
Quote from tronix » like look at punishing fire. who the hell would play that card? at first blush id think it wouldnt show up anywhere, but i cant be sure cause there are way too many unknowns.
Quote from cfusionpm »Quote from LeoTzu »I don't disagree with you on that one. But is having to run grave-hate inherently wrong, or just a natural progression of the format? Why or why not? I've just seen some people use the prevalence of grave-hate in decks as a sign that the format is unhealthy. But I often wonder if that's only because the format went for a long time with the graveyard as primarily as food for Tarmogoyf or potential targets for Snapcaster, as you mentioned a few pages back. Should we cling to the past, or just move forward and accept that interacting with the graveyard is just something you need to pack (akin to the Force of Will/Brainstorm package in Legacy fair decks)? If that's the case, then there needs to be a massive reassessment of the banned and restricted list, because a LOT of things there are laughably underpowered if the current state of affairs is considered acceptable for Modern. Twin, SFM, even Pod would all likely be totally fine since it's OK to be dying on early turns to decks that require Leylines in your opening hand, and are nearly impossible to meaningfully interact with using normal Magic cards. But of course they won't do that.
Quote from LeoTzu »I don't disagree with you on that one. But is having to run grave-hate inherently wrong, or just a natural progression of the format? Why or why not? I've just seen some people use the prevalence of grave-hate in decks as a sign that the format is unhealthy. But I often wonder if that's only because the format went for a long time with the graveyard as primarily as food for Tarmogoyf or potential targets for Snapcaster, as you mentioned a few pages back. Should we cling to the past, or just move forward and accept that interacting with the graveyard is just something you need to pack (akin to the Force of Will/Brainstorm package in Legacy fair decks)?
Quote from FoodChainGoblins »As someone who plays this deck, I don't think banning Bridge from Below is enough. I think there has to be multiple bans, like Hogaak AND Altar of Dementia or Hogaak and Bridge from Below. I personally don't think a turn 2/3 8/8 Tramply fellow is all right for Modern. But maybe I'm wrong? Stitcher's Supplier is another card many forget about and is one of this deck's best draws. That and Faithless Looting...
Quote from idSurge »Quote from Renegade Rallier »July 5th is when it starts for paper I believe. So depending on the paper modern event calendar after that... well we'll just see how it goes. 1st SCG Modern Open post LM is 27/28 July. 1st Modern Magic Fest seems to be Barcelona 26 July. So uhhh yeah, won't expect anything until end of August for paper magic to impact any decisions. Only online data for pretty much the whole of July. Bleh. Off by a week! That means we will have to probably endure people saying the Mull will somehow fix it...now I REALLY hope those 2 events are utterly dominated by Hogaak.
Quote from Renegade Rallier »July 5th is when it starts for paper I believe. So depending on the paper modern event calendar after that... well we'll just see how it goes. 1st SCG Modern Open post LM is 27/28 July. 1st Modern Magic Fest seems to be Barcelona 26 July. So uhhh yeah, won't expect anything until end of August for paper magic to impact any decisions. Only online data for pretty much the whole of July.
Quote from Bearscape »With both Counterspell and Containment Priest confirmed out, I was wrong on both of my "guaranteed" ins. Verdant Windstorm (Instant 1G: gain 3 life, Storm) seems like it could see sideboard play. Interesting way to have tech vs both storm and burn. Still really hoping Arcmage Charm is a cycle
Quote from Thenarus »Matt Nass and LSV did a take on unban opinions for SFM, Twin, GSZ, Chrome Mox, and the artifact lands. Regardless of any other take, it still amazes me that people think SFM would warp the format, even to homogenize the fair decks.
Quote from Trazaeth »I'd say that it's effect is less degeneracy and more that it makes decks partially homogenized. Basically, unless there's a very good reason not to, you should be starting every deck with 4 Chrome Mox, if it's legal. If anything though, it makes traditionally "fair" decks (aggro, control, ramp, and midrange) better against "unfair" (combo) decks. Admittedly, I think labeling decks "fair" or "unfair" is a bit loaded, but it's how the developers seem to think of things. No, not all decks would run a chrome mox. However, ramping in that manner only really suits combo decks and ramp decks towards early powerful spells. The loss of a card in hand would mean that aggro wouldn't want it since it's trying to just race on curve, and control would only use it in a prison tezzerator build at best. Being able to be possibly two turns up on mana can lead to virtual locks. Either way, what is being accomplished with having this unbanned eludes me.
I'd say that it's effect is less degeneracy and more that it makes decks partially homogenized. Basically, unless there's a very good reason not to, you should be starting every deck with 4 Chrome Mox, if it's legal. If anything though, it makes traditionally "fair" decks (aggro, control, ramp, and midrange) better against "unfair" (combo) decks. Admittedly, I think labeling decks "fair" or "unfair" is a bit loaded, but it's how the developers seem to think of things.
Quote from VidarThor »After watching a lotbof games with this deck, how important is black? Most games seem to end with winning with Blue Sun's Senith. Just burry the opponent i card advantage. Would it be possible to use merchant scroll and snapcasters? White seems like a good colour: Path to Exile Settle the Wrechage Absorb Sphinxes Revelation Teferi? Secure the Wastes March of the multitudes