For a minute, lets assume this is 100% real, how does an error like this occur? Wouldn't the same sheet with the print error be printed multiple times? Why is there only one?
The problem with that line of thought, Ahylis, was that yes, there can be any number of reason for any one to do anything in this game. That's an obvious universal truth, but it doesn't mean that any crazy scheme is as likely as another. You guys got so caught up in stupid conspiracy theories that no one ever thought about what was likely and what was not.
Like I said, enjoy your mislynch. WG's case was bad, and I explained why, but he put in more effort than scum would IMHO. Pdr is the perfect example of what scum do in that situation. Ahylis was a stubborn baby. Techno has improved greatly over the course of the game, but I'm still pretty sure he's scum, if not, kuddos to him. Rith could be passive town or fencesitting scum. I provided plenty of defense and people just called WIFOM at me for having to explain subtle details.
I apologize if I came across as a jerk but this was an incredibly frustrating experience at a time I'm losing a lot of interest in this game. Thanks for hosting a game for us Px2 guys and on there behalf I apologize for their lack of participation. We had Ahylis who was the only other player really participating and he was getting butt-hurt about my strategy this game, Freddeh who barely participated, lurking scum Pdr, replaced theatog and MIA PK. It was a very poor showing from our group.
My advice for the future is set a deadline so we don't have a day this long which no doubt caused a severe loss of interest by many players. I think you guys have a good group here.
I was vanilla town in case it doesn't show up in the death post.
Here's some wisdom in my passing:
-Fencesitting is scummy
-Not scumhunting is scummy
-Directing power roles is scummy
-Panic claims are scummy
-Voting for people you've stated are town is scummy
-Fake hammers are not scummy
-Aggressive behavior is Null
-Misuse of terms en masse is Null, but makes for weak cases
-Coming out of left field to save some one taking heat is scummy. It's either white-knighting or scum-cuddling.
-Overuse of question statements is scummy. It creates an illusion of effort but forces others to actually make the effort.
-TS lists from living players are an advantage for scum. I'm not joking here. If you haven't used them as a tool as scum, you should start.
-TS lists from those about to be lynched are super helpful if they flip town and should be ignored if they flip scum
That's all I can think of at the moment, its late.
I'm pretty sure, as techno said, pdr thought I was town until I was l-2 and I'm pretty sure he thought he hammered me. If you think PDT tried to hammer me to help move this game along ask yourselves what has PDT done to try to help in this game so far?
@Fairy: Town make bad cases as much as scum as you will soon see.
I know I'm practically dead here, but at this point do people honestly believe I'm scum?
Also my case on PDr is NOT lynch all lurkers.
@Ahylis: My whole point of making a new Ts list was to benefit town. You're really confused. I think Ts list are bad en-masse. Nice double barn in your post saying I want to lynch all lurkers and lynch newbs. I think there are several other people here with strong cases against them and I bring more to the table.
You don't get out of this. Before you said you had 9 town and 3 scum and the town were town because the scum were scum. No townie townier than any other townie. And now you have a ranking instead of that system. I want to know what changed. I'm not asking about the full-heartedness of it; I could care about that. That part you've explained. I want to know why the ranking system changed.
And if you're encouraging others not to do T/S lists, then why did you do another? Especially one more substantial?
My ranking system changed because I'm going to be dead. I already wrote that. I did another more substantial T/S list because I'm going to be dead. If scum have a list of reads from every town player they know exactly who to kill, who to bus, etc. That's why I'm discouraging any other TS lists at this time. A T/S list here and there is fine, but it's much better not to make it so clean and easy for scum to use as a tool.
I'm VLA on weekends. Enjoy your mislynch.
Yes, I'm bitter because I'm being mislynched on terrible logic and thanks to some major barning. On top of that I'm being lynched over people who are less experienced and people who could care less about this game. People who are obviously calling it in and not trying, yet here I am trying to actual help a town full of people afraid of aggressive scum hunting and who would rather be lead around on a flimsy chain. I'm frustrated that I even had to explain most of this stuff to people and then got thrown a WIFOM card because of it.
Barning this. The fact that SJT didn't know the votecount and justifies it with what WG bolded. The "fake hammer" makes absolutely no sense as any scum with half a brain would double check the votecount before giving up info like that so easily. Saying it could semi-clear him as town too is a joke considering how hard he's been pushing for Techno's lynch.
Ahlyis's posts on page 31 make me think he's town. However, I'm not one to forgive quickly and still think the claim at the beginning had us in a downward spiral for awhile. He's more town-neutral than scum-neutral to me now... if that makes any sense...
Makes sense, except for the fact that you tried to nail Techno earlier on by linking to his other games. A major part of your case against Techno was that he's more experienced than he's letting on in this game. So when you say it was a "win win gambit" here, you mean it's win win if you're scum because either way Techno will end up looking like scum.
Page 33: SJT is brushing off every case against him as if they have no merit. Also, Ahlyis goes hulk.
Good points but I actually think it's the opposite. Earlier he says he has proof that Techno's not a newb and provides the link. Now he "awesome hammers" to try and get a reaction out of Techno, trying to appear as if he is assuming Techno is a newb now. Contradicting his own logic and his own argument.
Whether Techno is town or scum here is irrelevant assuming SJT is scum in this scenario. Either way Techno will claim he's town. If they're scumbuddies, then he's saved him somewhat. If not then SJT can argue that Techno's not a newb and faked a reaction to his trap. It was a bad trap after all and would be a fairly easy sell.
Either way SJT is extremely scummy at this point. Also, after having looked back at Techno's reactions and his self-vote, I'd be okay with moving him to scum-neutral in my book. Though, I will concede that there is still a good possibility they are scum buddies as WG suggests.
Vote stinkyjoeterry
Did I type all that up for nothing? You said it much more elegantly.
I got a bad gut feeling from reading this sequence of posts in the spoiler (I hate those page-eating posts). Feels like light bussing to be referred back to later on. I don't put too much stock in gut reads but they're both in the grey area between neutral and scum now.
Exactly how I'm feeling right now.
You're kidding right? You've seen nothing telling from him at all?
Way to ride that fence. Pdr just hit my scumlist.
Post #561: Good points across the board.
Page 40: Oh jeez SJT posted a lot while I was catching up...
Oh hey, actual responses here. It's much better than the sarcastic stuff you were putting up earlier but it doesn't however clear you of all your past transgressions.
Oh god! Self vote makes Techno town!? My god, that is exactly opposite of what it should be. Self votes are scummy to the max.
I explained my reasoning for not wanting to do a full hearted T/S list earlier and I've done so now and explained why I've done so. I also have encouraged others not to do another T/S list. So you can shut up about that now.
2. The point there has nothing to do with the plausibility of my fake claim, it has to do with the fact that Gricky's logic was awful.
4. I already explained this. See sarcasm and frustration.
6. It's about the timing of the actions not the actions alone.
8. What? There is nothing about a strawman there. The bottom line is still the same as #6.
9. See #4. I have since answered him. I was VLA at the time.
10. Bottom line is that the Town reasoning is plausible and the scum reasoning is a bit of a stretch.
11. You specifically call that a town of strawmen with me as mayor or something.
12. Assumptions within assumptions. You'll see how poor that is when I flip.
13. See #10
ProphetKing: It worries me that he's been posting so little lately (quanity and quality), but I agree with his point that not lynching Techno is just Mulliganing it till tomorrow. Here comes some real mafia logic! Scum would WANT to save Techno till tomorrow. Scum would want Techno to live as long as possible if Techno is Scum or Town. Therefore PK is town.
Freddeh: Freddeh's post #544 feels very town to me, but he has been relatively lite content so that gives me some concern. Overall I agree with most of his posts, so Null leaning town on Freddeh.
theatog: His most recent post was a month ago. I demand a prod/replacement.
Pdr_Br: I've explained this before, Scum
stinkyjoeterry: Town duh
Ahlyis: Ahylis is kind of an enigma to me this game. His emotions are really running high and I'm not sure why. I think his attack on me was weak and when compounded with the fact that he refused to build a case for me to respond to makes me think he may be scum. Null leaning Scum.
Rithaniel: I still think Rith has exhibited some pretty scummy behavior and often plays the Poor Me card. I've already went into why I think he is scum.
Emocakes: This is an interesting case. In his most recent post he says that he was really busy over the last week, but has over 20 posts on this forum during that time period. I see that he did ask to replace out. It does worry me a bit how cautious he has been with his vote. Null
MzztrTetris: Another person in need of a prod/replacement. Mzztr doesn't seem to do any actual scumhunting himself as of late, but he does take stances. I'm up in the air on this one. Null for now pending replacement/prod.
GrickyTimmick: I originally thought he was pretty obv town, but I am second guessing myself now. If town is going to get clobbered this game its because Gricky is scum. People tend to sheep him a lot (barn i think?). I don't like how he swung the lynch off Techno. Gricky falls in the opposite reasoning than PK. Scum would love to save Techno till later whether or not he was town or scum. Techno is going to get lynched this game. It is inevitable. Now with him saved and a threat to scum is going to be lynched in place of Techno. If Techno is town, scum have an easy lynch in the wings. If Techno is scum, they save themselves a scum death and each day scum survives it allows them to influence the game with their vote, not to mention any special abilities they may have to use at night. Leaning Scum
Gamerz Wheat_Grinder: I already explained why I think he is town.
TeChNoWC: I'm afraid that we may have been having a town fight, but still can't shake his early day play that led to his L-1.
Scum to Town List
Pdr
Gricky
Rith
Ahylis
Techno
Tetris
Theatog
Emocakes
Freddeh
PK
WG
SJT
This doesn't make any sense if you think I am mafia. You think I am likely to survive to endgame??
And rith? You suspect him too, and Pdr? All suspects, and yet you think there will be a 'perfect mafia victory' if you are lynched.
Your logic is all over the place.
SJT, who is scum? And how do we prevent this 'perfect mafia victory' you are so worried about?
The problem I see is how this game swung. Like I said earlier, I'm worried this was a town fight. Techno getting to L-1 and being saved is really bad news because I'm going to get lynched today and if my reads are wrong, when I flip town, they are going to propagated into other mislynches. If people are willing to follow the swing from Techno (which at the time had some real merit) onto my lynch based on such poor reasoning, it leaves me to believe that scum have got a very strong foothold in this town already and don't think there is much town can do at this point.
I'm going to do a death T/S list next. Before anyone starts yelling "you said T/S lists were bad!" I need to explain that the ONLY time T/S lists are good are when they are from the person about to be lynched. Once I'm dead it doesn't matter that scum know who I thought was what and why. It also is much less useful to scum when it comes as a one-of and not from every player. On that note, I'm happy we had this little diversion since the last T/S lists were done, it will make them much harder to abuse by scum.
My stance on SJT is simple I don't think you're town and I don't think you're scum, but it can go either way depending on your actions.
Regarding the town lurking issue I agree with SJT that a Day 1 this larger doesn't help. Th e only way I see to up activity is to end this day and lynch someone.
This is a classic example of Pdr's disconnect from this game. Not only is he prod-dodging, when he does contribute, it is fencesitting or no content. The second sentence basically shows this to a higher level. He basically just says, yeah let's hurry up and lynch one of these guys. He doesn't care because they are probably both town.
I would take an active scum over a lurking scum any day. A lurking scum leaves no trails, an active scum can slip or leave clues.
My original trap was to Fake-Claim something that would make scum consider NKing me. I do this type of thing as vanilla all the time. I know it was pretty obviously fake, but people seemed to buy Ahylis'. So I thought since I was calling out Ahylis on the double fakie, scum might think I was double fakie-ing a power role. I tried to emphasize that and reaction test with the fake hammer.
I apologize if I came across as a jerk but this was an incredibly frustrating experience at a time I'm losing a lot of interest in this game. Thanks for hosting a game for us Px2 guys and on there behalf I apologize for their lack of participation. We had Ahylis who was the only other player really participating and he was getting butt-hurt about my strategy this game, Freddeh who barely participated, lurking scum Pdr, replaced theatog and MIA PK. It was a very poor showing from our group.
My advice for the future is set a deadline so we don't have a day this long which no doubt caused a severe loss of interest by many players. I think you guys have a good group here.
I was vanilla town in case it doesn't show up in the death post.
Here's some wisdom in my passing:
-Fencesitting is scummy
-Not scumhunting is scummy
-Directing power roles is scummy
-Panic claims are scummy
-Voting for people you've stated are town is scummy
-Fake hammers are not scummy
-Aggressive behavior is Null
-Misuse of terms en masse is Null, but makes for weak cases
-Coming out of left field to save some one taking heat is scummy. It's either white-knighting or scum-cuddling.
-Overuse of question statements is scummy. It creates an illusion of effort but forces others to actually make the effort.
-TS lists from living players are an advantage for scum. I'm not joking here. If you haven't used them as a tool as scum, you should start.
-TS lists from those about to be lynched are super helpful if they flip town and should be ignored if they flip scum
That's all I can think of at the moment, its late.
@Fairy: Town make bad cases as much as scum as you will soon see.
Yeah. This guy is totally not scum. /Sarcasm
Also my case on PDr is NOT lynch all lurkers.
@Ahylis: My whole point of making a new Ts list was to benefit town. You're really confused. I think Ts list are bad en-masse. Nice double barn in your post saying I want to lynch all lurkers and lynch newbs. I think there are several other people here with strong cases against them and I bring more to the table.
My ranking system changed because I'm going to be dead. I already wrote that. I did another more substantial T/S list because I'm going to be dead. If scum have a list of reads from every town player they know exactly who to kill, who to bus, etc. That's why I'm discouraging any other TS lists at this time. A T/S list here and there is fine, but it's much better not to make it so clean and easy for scum to use as a tool.
I'm VLA on weekends. Enjoy your mislynch.
Yes, I'm bitter because I'm being mislynched on terrible logic and thanks to some major barning. On top of that I'm being lynched over people who are less experienced and people who could care less about this game. People who are obviously calling it in and not trying, yet here I am trying to actual help a town full of people afraid of aggressive scum hunting and who would rather be lead around on a flimsy chain. I'm frustrated that I even had to explain most of this stuff to people and then got thrown a WIFOM card because of it.
Good luck town, you'll need it.
Oh god! Self vote makes Techno town!? My god, that is exactly opposite of what it should be. Self votes are scummy to the max.
I explained my reasoning for not wanting to do a full hearted T/S list earlier and I've done so now and explained why I've done so. I also have encouraged others not to do another T/S list. So you can shut up about that now.
4. I already explained this. See sarcasm and frustration.
6. It's about the timing of the actions not the actions alone.
8. What? There is nothing about a strawman there. The bottom line is still the same as #6.
9. See #4. I have since answered him. I was VLA at the time.
10. Bottom line is that the Town reasoning is plausible and the scum reasoning is a bit of a stretch.
11. You specifically call that a town of strawmen with me as mayor or something.
12. Assumptions within assumptions. You'll see how poor that is when I flip.
13. See #10
I'll finish later, I've got to go.
GamerzWheat_Grinder: I already explained why I think he is town.Scum to Town List
Pdr
Gricky
Rith
Ahylis
Techno
Tetris
Theatog
Emocakes
Freddeh
PK
WG
SJT
The problem I see is how this game swung. Like I said earlier, I'm worried this was a town fight. Techno getting to L-1 and being saved is really bad news because I'm going to get lynched today and if my reads are wrong, when I flip town, they are going to propagated into other mislynches. If people are willing to follow the swing from Techno (which at the time had some real merit) onto my lynch based on such poor reasoning, it leaves me to believe that scum have got a very strong foothold in this town already and don't think there is much town can do at this point.
I'm going to do a death T/S list next. Before anyone starts yelling "you said T/S lists were bad!" I need to explain that the ONLY time T/S lists are good are when they are from the person about to be lynched. Once I'm dead it doesn't matter that scum know who I thought was what and why. It also is much less useful to scum when it comes as a one-of and not from every player. On that note, I'm happy we had this little diversion since the last T/S lists were done, it will make them much harder to abuse by scum.
This is a classic example of Pdr's disconnect from this game. Not only is he prod-dodging, when he does contribute, it is fencesitting or no content. The second sentence basically shows this to a higher level. He basically just says, yeah let's hurry up and lynch one of these guys. He doesn't care because they are probably both town.
I would take an active scum over a lurking scum any day. A lurking scum leaves no trails, an active scum can slip or leave clues.