The debate and mafia forums have pretty good communities. There's plenty of mafia forums should that section ever be shutdown (however unlikely), but the debate forums are unique. At times it can be an echo chamber but sometimes discussion between opposing viewpoints is solid and informative. Debate sections on other forums are often unbearable.
I'll take your word for it, but in my experience the MTGS debate section looked pretty unbearable.
Removing a huge number of staff in one go would just throw the site into upheaval.
The staff on this site changes extremely rapidly, at least I think it does because almost every time I see a moderator tag it's on a different user who I at least assume is new, or is at least somebody I had never heard of.
See, I find it interesting that people are saying that exposure of staff corruption is going to end salvation, but the problem is that salvation is hardly known as a community to most of its members. Really, the best thing that MTGS has going for it is the fact that it has a great spoiler database. Of course, try posting in the rumor mill. It's ****ing miserable.
As far as I can tell the only "communities" involved on this site are that of the mods, clans and the gutter. Of which, the mods definitely communicate off-site, a number of clans communicate off-site, and the gutter is being killed.
I don't think that retooling the staff nor keeping the current staff, however corrupt, actually has any bearing whatsoever on a website that is literally carried by spoiler season.
I don't appreciate that comment and I don't like being patronized. It'd be easier to just give an infraction to kpaca. I prefered not to, but I don't want that decision to backfire (I actually care about setting precedents), so I wanted everyone to understand that was a one time deal.
The reason I reposted is so that everyone sees the edit. if you check the timestamps, it was made several hours after the original post and I don't expect every user to re-read the entire thread looking for mod edits...
Kindly remove this rudely orange nonsense from our thread. It is a pain on the eyes and it's annoying to have to remove the tags every time I quote you.
Was going to PTQ in Fargo this weekend but that fell through. Loans are coming to be repaid which means I probs can't afford a trip to my college town for the weekend of the official closing of my favorite restaurant. Everything is awful.
There is absolutely no way that this card doesn't end up as a constructed all star. It's very heavily pushed and it has a unique ability to actually favorably interact with some hexproof creatures. Bonus for murdering Lingering Souls.
It's there so staff know what staff expect. It's a guideline to what we consider the staff vision, & how we would like staff to approach their responsibilities. The entire point is to allow staff to self-police themselves, & understand what the process is if they fall outside of it.
As I said, releasing it concerns me in that a user who does not understand the document's intent or misreads it, then using it as a platform to grief staff.
So just include a write-up of the intent in the release? If the staff is abiding by the coc then I don't see how problems could arise. Granted I'm not exactly a vindictive person, but I don't believe that my logic is off here.
I do find it rather ironic that you're worried about people misconstruing the intent of the coc in the middle of a discussion about by far the most misconstrued section of MTGS.
My personal call? No, it isn't, there's no parallel. Unless I am misunderstanding your position.
& just to be clear, the discussion included the admins as well as the global moderators.
Mostly disagreeing with the logic behind not including regular mods in the gutter discussion. What current admins even frequent the gutter?
Also, it seems to me that there is no point to having a moderator coc if it's going to be private. You cite that it could be used as a weapon... but that seems extremely nonsensical to me. To what extent could it be weaponised? Couldn't it only be cited for inconsistencies with moderator behavior? And wouldn't that be the exact purpose of such a document in the first place? :???:
It's not my call to make, but I will raise the request with the general staff. I understand your desire to see what we are holding ourselves to.
My only hesitation is the potential for it to be misused as a weapon against the staff, rather than the tool to foster & support understanding of the expectations we place on ourselves.
Sooooo it's not your call to make public the code of conduct for moderating these boards but it was okay to not consult mods in order to close the gutter? I'm feeling some inconsistency here. Perhaps I'm missing something, but this feels extremely trivial by comparison.
But kpaca left before the vote was finished. Also as I have seen both the Mod Cave and The Gutter. I can honestly say that the Gutter has more hurtful material in it than has ever been posted in the Mod Cave. When I first made a post in the Gutter I was called something along the lines of a furfag by a member that has posted in this thread defending the Gutter.
If you can't immediately identify the satirical nature of most of what happens in the gutter then you probably don't lead a very good life in the first place. The insults slung around in the mod cave are, from what I understand, actual behind back malicious attacks that would undoubtedly offend were they be made public.
I don't know if your trolling me, or being honest. That's a problem.
Either way he's right. This thread and motion are a complete joke. It's all a bunch of unilateral, hypocritical nonsense. If anything, my respect for Madding has increased from his posts ITT.
I like what azrael is doing trying to reach a compromise, but he's working against a completely lousy administration that is just going to continue to make unilateral/bad decisions that need to be appealed by rational people later.
From what I understand (again, without inside knowledge) is that the decision is supported on potential for problems, more than any specific occurrence. It's logical to me.
The old preemptive strike. Strictly logical.
I do make a safeguard for it no tto be retroactive, since some posts were made under the assumption that they'd be private and that may cause issues. I don't have a specific example, but doing it this way would add transparency while preventing problem with the disclosure.
Kind of like the gutter posts that are going live? Which is another point that seems inconsistent- if we're worried about cyber-bullying then why are we making posts, some of which containing negative content, public?
Oh, and don't diss the GRRR. It's all fun and games. A place where mods (and ex-mods) go to relax. That's it. It does not share the influence or exposure the Gutter has.. You can verify that by the simple fact that most people that read this thread know what the Gutter is, but there's a lot that don't know what the GRR is...
"Because it's mods doing it so it's okay". Long live the rianalnn administration.
Anyway, I feel everyone's drifting from the point. I don't see "There's something else wrong with the site, so the Gutter should stay" as a valid reason to keep it...
While this is true, I'd much rather argue that there's nothing wrong with the gutter. I find it hard to believe that anybody has heard about the gutter without knowing exactly what it is, unless of course they had no interest in it. But if that's the case then there's obviously no problem.
Question: How do the users benefit from having the Gutter hosted on MTGS?
The gutter is MTGS for some members. Users outside of the gutter obviously don't benefit but that's equally true of trading grounds, clans and the mod cave.
Also, why on Earth do you type in orange? I can't be the only one that hurts their eyes trying to read it.
I really don't enjoy most movies that fall into the genre of "horror". Saw in particular is something that I don't feel I need to watch because it doesn't explore anything that I feel needs exploring. I already know that I don't want to end up on the wrong side of a lunatic. I like movies like Silence of the Lambs because the acting/writing are superb, but Saw strikes me as straight gorror.
The Cabin in the Woods, on the other hand, was simply spectacular. I enjoyed absolutely everything about it.
Got savaged pretty hard at the Invitational. Standard is ever awful. While on super tilt I decided to join a draft open despite having never drafted Avacyn Restored. Ended up splitting the finals with Dave Shiels. Those draft opens sure are soft.
I'll take your word for it, but in my experience the MTGS debate section looked pretty unbearable.
-Harkius
The staff on this site changes extremely rapidly, at least I think it does because almost every time I see a moderator tag it's on a different user who I at least assume is new, or is at least somebody I had never heard of.
See, I find it interesting that people are saying that exposure of staff corruption is going to end salvation, but the problem is that salvation is hardly known as a community to most of its members. Really, the best thing that MTGS has going for it is the fact that it has a great spoiler database. Of course, try posting in the rumor mill. It's ****ing miserable.
As far as I can tell the only "communities" involved on this site are that of the mods, clans and the gutter. Of which, the mods definitely communicate off-site, a number of clans communicate off-site, and the gutter is being killed.
I don't think that retooling the staff nor keeping the current staff, however corrupt, actually has any bearing whatsoever on a website that is literally carried by spoiler season.
Kindly remove this rudely orange nonsense from our thread. It is a pain on the eyes and it's annoying to have to remove the tags every time I quote you.
Was going to PTQ in Fargo this weekend but that fell through. Loans are coming to be repaid which means I probs can't afford a trip to my college town for the weekend of the official closing of my favorite restaurant. Everything is awful.
So just include a write-up of the intent in the release? If the staff is abiding by the coc then I don't see how problems could arise. Granted I'm not exactly a vindictive person, but I don't believe that my logic is off here.
I do find it rather ironic that you're worried about people misconstruing the intent of the coc in the middle of a discussion about by far the most misconstrued section of MTGS.
Mostly disagreeing with the logic behind not including regular mods in the gutter discussion. What current admins even frequent the gutter?
Also, it seems to me that there is no point to having a moderator coc if it's going to be private. You cite that it could be used as a weapon... but that seems extremely nonsensical to me. To what extent could it be weaponised? Couldn't it only be cited for inconsistencies with moderator behavior? And wouldn't that be the exact purpose of such a document in the first place? :???:
Sooooo it's not your call to make public the code of conduct for moderating these boards but it was okay to not consult mods in order to close the gutter? I'm feeling some inconsistency here. Perhaps I'm missing something, but this feels extremely trivial by comparison.
If you can't immediately identify the satirical nature of most of what happens in the gutter then you probably don't lead a very good life in the first place. The insults slung around in the mod cave are, from what I understand, actual behind back malicious attacks that would undoubtedly offend were they be made public.
Either way he's right. This thread and motion are a complete joke. It's all a bunch of unilateral, hypocritical nonsense. If anything, my respect for Madding has increased from his posts ITT.
I like what azrael is doing trying to reach a compromise, but he's working against a completely lousy administration that is just going to continue to make unilateral/bad decisions that need to be appealed by rational people later.
The old preemptive strike. Strictly logical.
Kind of like the gutter posts that are going live? Which is another point that seems inconsistent- if we're worried about cyber-bullying then why are we making posts, some of which containing negative content, public?
"Because it's mods doing it so it's okay". Long live the rianalnn administration.
While this is true, I'd much rather argue that there's nothing wrong with the gutter. I find it hard to believe that anybody has heard about the gutter without knowing exactly what it is, unless of course they had no interest in it. But if that's the case then there's obviously no problem.
The gutter is MTGS for some members. Users outside of the gutter obviously don't benefit but that's equally true of trading grounds, clans and the mod cave.
Also, why on Earth do you type in orange? I can't be the only one that hurts their eyes trying to read it.
The Cabin in the Woods, on the other hand, was simply spectacular. I enjoyed absolutely everything about it.
Thanks, bro. I hope your friends do well.