5 mana, flying, 5/5, bolster 2. She becomes a 7/7 on her own and if she sticks +2/+2 each turn on anything gets out of hand. She is the real deal!
Quote from RaikouRider »
As much fun as it is to go big, having undercosted fatties that are respectable even late game is important because either Mayael will be too expensive or she'll get tossed into your library.
Totally agree. The occasional 4, but mostly 5, and 6 drops should be the meat and potatoes of the deck.
I've always found that Avenger has been one of my least impressive creatures. Maybe I'm just playing it wrong, but it seems that every time it hits the table, I either don't have enough lands to make a significant number of dudes, or I already have so many lands that I don't get enough counters on them. Either way, the tokens rarely last more than a turn before it provokes a board wipe... or someone just kills Avenger before I get any counters. The only reason that I haven't cut it before now is because everyone else considers it to be a must-have, and I assume that a scenario will come up that will prove me wrong.
Avenger hasn't made my list for similar reason. Your impressions are valid. Don't feel discouraged friend, a lot of cards that people consider "staples" in certain decks look great on paper but are very underwhelming in actual use.
Gods are what we wanted but enchantments are what we got. They're just not that good for this type of deck. Nylea and Xenagos are decent but even Nylea is kind of so-so. Indestructible is a little moot when not in creature mode and the mana sinks aren't honestly that great.
It's a lot of mana to sink into the bracers with Mayael to reap the benefits. Generally creature quality is more important than quantity. Also the deck should be able to play fluidly without the commander.
My two cents: Angel of the Dire Hour, casting is something we don't really want to do. Containment Priest is better in Legacy and Modern as a sideboard card. Unless your group is actively trying to hate on your deck I can't really see it being an issue? Gravesifter is bit underwhelming and could give your opponents back better and/or more resources. Feldon of the Third Path seems fun and I'm going to test him out. Works great with Fauna Shaman, Natural Order, Birthing Pod, Greater Good, and Sneak Attack. Siege Behemoth would be pretty good if it didn't have 4 toughness. Titania, Protector of Argoth just doesn't do enough and needs a dedicated strategy. Plus that 3 toughness, bleh. Thunderfoot Baloth is neat. Well costed, good body, (mass)trample, also +2/+2 could be useful with Mayael and misc dorks. But I'm not entirely convinced? Not to mention Lieutenant isn't a sure thing. Tyrant's Familiar is decent. There is just nothing I would really want to cut for it though at the moment. Warmonger Hellkite is pretty underwhelming. Song of the Dryads looks really strong!
Personally I wouldn't run Flamekin Village. If you are trying to haste Mayael it will take 11 mana initially to do it with this card. Also if you are able to cheat fatties into play then they should have pseudo haste anyway.
These banlist changes don't affect me at this current time, but it does beg to question. A good point was raised about the effects the simplification ban could have on future legendary "cards."
Might as well chime in on the last god.
- The bulk of power 5+ creatures we use/want to use already have trample/evasion.
- The majority of our cards that turn Iroas into a creature are angels and dragons which already have evasion.
- Damage prevention when attacking is moot when the majority of creatures are P/T 5+ and the majority have trample/evasion.
- Devotion is a liability. (It won't be what you want when you want it.)
In this type of deck Iroas really, really, really wants to be a creature more than just a Goblin War Drums. It's another god which plays better with weenies and low end CMC creatures/enablers.
In general I don't have anything against the gods. I just don't feel the gods do enough to warrant an inclusion in this deck as I have explained. It's your call if you want to cut Mana Reflection, it is probably a win more card. However, I would pick it over a god almost all the time.
The gods don't raise this deck's threat density. Devotion can be an issue, if you are hitting devotion you are probably winning or are already ahead. The gods do not offer you what you want, when you want it. Mayael's randomness can grab a god but they can be stuck as an enchantment when you need a threat the most and your opponents can control your devotion. If you are stacking your deck to work with devotion you are missing out on better threats. The vigilance, trample, pseudo-ramp, and haste with +X/+X are win more abilities for creatures that already have trample/evasion/pseudo-haste. Karametra's casting requirement also goes against the deck's cheat creatures into play strategy. It is true that you do need to be able to cast creatures sometimes, but when you are able to hit 5-8 mana to drop threats incremental ramp isn't necessary. Mana Reflection at least gives immediate mana for multiple options in a turn. Ten mana is a ideal to have open for Mayael/cheat effects and be able to do something else which is stronger than a sometimes ramp/sometimes a creature.
This primer has a budget deck and a beast themed deck, it should also keep a strong-arm deck as well.
I know you are interested in 5 color Karona, but honestly junk is probably your best bet for knight tribal. A 5-colored mana base seems too clunky, expensive, and unnecessary when you want to hit double W and double B consistently. Teneb or Karador both have abilities sort of similar to Haakon and BGW are the colors containing the majority of the strongest knights.
Circumventing rules is one of the basic principles of MTG.
True, you can use cards that circumvent rules and even build decks around those kinds of strategy. Normally you need to draw those cards and assemble those resources, but a commander is a reusable resource that is nearly always accessible. It was my understanding that the general tax is used to effectively balance Commanders rather than spam them back and forth. I also believe it is against the spirit of the format to always play a general for 3-4 mana while others need to pay much more depending on their general and/not including added general tax. Don't get me wrong I think the card is actually more annoying than broken.
IMO, we could use a Bant colored bird general. However, no general should ever have an alternate cost that gets around general tax. Doesn't the Commander Committee have say in what goes into the Commander products? Why make a rule and then make ways around it? I am curious to know the design story of this card. I really enjoy the flavor bonus you get for recasting a general like Prossh or Jeleva, I don't feel uncounterable-nearly infinite-near fog among other applications adds anything fun or flavorful to the format.
I don't feel like Theros brings anything to Mayael.
I think Nylea as well as the other gods are a little underwhelming for this type of deck. The majority of power 5+ creatures used already have trample or evasion. She herself isn't an immediate threat and when she is a creatures or gives you the option to trample someone to death, you're most likely already far ahead.
Theros 5+ power creatures are also sub par. Polukranos could have its moments but paying X twice is very underwhelming.
Scry Temples are so slow and the scry 1 feels so infinitesimal. I think there are better lands to play let alone CITPT lands.
Xenagos like many other cards in the set rewards you for being ahead and haste bears feel a little underwhelming in this deck.
I play with some of these cards but I wouldn't feel bad if they ever got banned because I know how powerful some of these can be.
Blightsteel Colossus
Bribery
Eldrazi (Annihilator)
Hellkite Tyrant
Ionia, Shield of Emeria
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Maelstrom Wanderer
Magister Sphinx
Mind Twist
Sorin Markov
Sylvan Primordial
Terastodon
I left out combo cards and cards that didn't have an immediate effect on the game without support. Each of these cards are unfair and one-sided and can lead to degenerate plays. While some of these cards do nothing to the entire table they do make games unenjoyable and even unplayable for one person. You tend to hear things like "your play group is bad" if no one can handle them, "you don't run enough counters/removal," and "people will gang up on you." The truth is not everyone has an answer all the time and kind players will remove these threats if they can, smart players let them destroy their opponents before they deal with them.
Who needs Flash when you can have a Legendary Enchantment Instant? I sort of get why it is also an artifact but it seems unnecessary. I don't even really understand why the gods needed to be half enchantment? Flavor wise I sort of get it but if they wanted something special why couldn't they be a new card type that has similarities to enchantments? I guess Planeswalkers are more powerful and special than gods, beings without bodies from the blind eternities can have corporeal spaghetti forms but gods with phenomenal cosmic powers cannot, and deity's only exist on Theros so no new card types.
Here's hoping for something similar to Landfall: Landfall Drop stuff on mortals — Whenever a land enchantment enters the battlefield under your control, do something.
I've always considered legendary permanents to be some of the best cards in the game. They can do what other permanents can't do and they can be really powerful because only one copy can exist at a time. After some thought on the subject I believe the new rules for clones makes sense. The clone creatures are not perfect copies and they aren't pulled from specific times or places. The ability for a player to cast multiple copies of a legendary permanent and pick which one to destroy to maintain balance seems all right because you need to have balance.
The thing that really bothers me is each opponent can have the same legendary permanents at the same time. Whether a permanent is a time traveler, a manifestation, or even a memory what is the point of being legendary or special when everyone and everything is exactly the same? If everyone is Superman then there is nothing super about them. As for Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind vs Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and the like it all boils down to bad card design. We know Ajani Vengeant and Ajani Goldmane are the same person and their design helped maintain their legendary status among their versions. The Mizzium conundrum and the like could have been addressed with an errata a long time ago or something along those lines.
Someone mentioned wurms wielding swords and wearing boots and the like. "Equipping" isn't so black and white. The wurms or wolves and etc don't wear or hold these items with traditional methods compared to a humanoid. They become enchanted with the items power. An item can be embedded, mounted, or even consumed depending on the object and creature. An example would be Ravnican wurms and wolves wearing helmets and saddles. It isn't much of a stretch to upgrade or create these kinds of armor.
Agreed. If not dragon tribal, 4 toughness isn't a butt we want on a 7 drop.
5 mana, flying, 5/5, bolster 2. She becomes a 7/7 on her own and if she sticks +2/+2 each turn on anything gets out of hand. She is the real deal!
Totally agree. The occasional 4, but mostly 5, and 6 drops should be the meat and potatoes of the deck.
Avenger hasn't made my list for similar reason. Your impressions are valid. Don't feel discouraged friend, a lot of cards that people consider "staples" in certain decks look great on paper but are very underwhelming in actual use.
Gods are what we wanted but enchantments are what we got. They're just not that good for this type of deck. Nylea and Xenagos are decent but even Nylea is kind of so-so. Indestructible is a little moot when not in creature mode and the mana sinks aren't honestly that great.
It's a lot of mana to sink into the bracers with Mayael to reap the benefits. Generally creature quality is more important than quantity. Also the deck should be able to play fluidly without the commander.
Angel of the Dire Hour, casting is something we don't really want to do.
Containment Priest is better in Legacy and Modern as a sideboard card. Unless your group is actively trying to hate on your deck I can't really see it being an issue?
Gravesifter is bit underwhelming and could give your opponents back better and/or more resources.
Feldon of the Third Path seems fun and I'm going to test him out. Works great with Fauna Shaman, Natural Order, Birthing Pod, Greater Good, and Sneak Attack.
Siege Behemoth would be pretty good if it didn't have 4 toughness.
Titania, Protector of Argoth just doesn't do enough and needs a dedicated strategy. Plus that 3 toughness, bleh.
Thunderfoot Baloth is neat. Well costed, good body, (mass)trample, also +2/+2 could be useful with Mayael and misc dorks. But I'm not entirely convinced? Not to mention Lieutenant isn't a sure thing.
Tyrant's Familiar is decent. There is just nothing I would really want to cut for it though at the moment.
Warmonger Hellkite is pretty underwhelming.
Song of the Dryads looks really strong!
Personally I wouldn't run Flamekin Village. If you are trying to haste Mayael it will take 11 mana initially to do it with this card. Also if you are able to cheat fatties into play then they should have pseudo haste anyway.
This response is very troubling and leads to question the long term health of the format.
- The bulk of power 5+ creatures we use/want to use already have trample/evasion.
- The majority of our cards that turn Iroas into a creature are angels and dragons which already have evasion.
- Damage prevention when attacking is moot when the majority of creatures are P/T 5+ and the majority have trample/evasion.
- Devotion is a liability. (It won't be what you want when you want it.)
In this type of deck Iroas really, really, really wants to be a creature more than just a Goblin War Drums. It's another god which plays better with weenies and low end CMC creatures/enablers.
In general I don't have anything against the gods. I just don't feel the gods do enough to warrant an inclusion in this deck as I have explained. It's your call if you want to cut Mana Reflection, it is probably a win more card. However, I would pick it over a god almost all the time.
This primer has a budget deck and a beast themed deck, it should also keep a strong-arm deck as well.
True, you can use cards that circumvent rules and even build decks around those kinds of strategy. Normally you need to draw those cards and assemble those resources, but a commander is a reusable resource that is nearly always accessible. It was my understanding that the general tax is used to effectively balance Commanders rather than spam them back and forth. I also believe it is against the spirit of the format to always play a general for 3-4 mana while others need to pay much more depending on their general and/not including added general tax. Don't get me wrong I think the card is actually more annoying than broken.
I think Nylea as well as the other gods are a little underwhelming for this type of deck. The majority of power 5+ creatures used already have trample or evasion. She herself isn't an immediate threat and when she is a creatures or gives you the option to trample someone to death, you're most likely already far ahead.
Theros 5+ power creatures are also sub par. Polukranos could have its moments but paying X twice is very underwhelming.
Scry Temples are so slow and the scry 1 feels so infinitesimal. I think there are better lands to play let alone CITPT lands.
Xenagos like many other cards in the set rewards you for being ahead and haste bears feel a little underwhelming in this deck.
That's my two cents.
Blightsteel Colossus
Bribery
Eldrazi (Annihilator)
Hellkite Tyrant
Ionia, Shield of Emeria
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Maelstrom Wanderer
Magister Sphinx
Mind Twist
Sorin Markov
Sylvan Primordial
Terastodon
I left out combo cards and cards that didn't have an immediate effect on the game without support. Each of these cards are unfair and one-sided and can lead to degenerate plays. While some of these cards do nothing to the entire table they do make games unenjoyable and even unplayable for one person. You tend to hear things like "your play group is bad" if no one can handle them, "you don't run enough counters/removal," and "people will gang up on you." The truth is not everyone has an answer all the time and kind players will remove these threats if they can, smart players let them destroy their opponents before they deal with them.
Here's hoping for something similar to Landfall:
LandfallDrop stuff on mortals — Whenever alandenchantment enters the battlefield under your control, do something.The thing that really bothers me is each opponent can have the same legendary permanents at the same time. Whether a permanent is a time traveler, a manifestation, or even a memory what is the point of being legendary or special when everyone and everything is exactly the same? If everyone is Superman then there is nothing super about them. As for Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind vs Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and the like it all boils down to bad card design. We know Ajani Vengeant and Ajani Goldmane are the same person and their design helped maintain their legendary status among their versions. The Mizzium conundrum and the like could have been addressed with an errata a long time ago or something along those lines.
Someone mentioned wurms wielding swords and wearing boots and the like. "Equipping" isn't so black and white. The wurms or wolves and etc don't wear or hold these items with traditional methods compared to a humanoid. They become enchanted with the items power. An item can be embedded, mounted, or even consumed depending on the object and creature. An example would be Ravnican wurms and wolves wearing helmets and saddles. It isn't much of a stretch to upgrade or create these kinds of armor.