anytime i see a sacrifice/graveyard manipulation list and i dont see ashnod's altar i just facepalm. Put it in, try it out for awhile, and you too will put your palm over your face wondering "how could i have missed this..." I understand you have phyrexian altar but ashnods > phyrexian everytime
City can get out of hand very quickly. Very similar to Gaeas Cradle but if they do wipe your board it sticks around.
Saporling Burst is crazy good with doubling season or proliferate shennanigans
Attrition was some good back in the day and in a token deck it still is. Its like 1/2 a pact and with a pact on the table, empties the board VERY quickly.
Contagion engine just screams for some love and this is the only deck i feel is perfect for it.
I just had to mention that Diamond Valley is arguably better than Miren, the Moaning Well Especially since the OP states price is not an issue. Alteast put it up as functional. T: sac a critter gain life is better than 3T: sac a critter gain life.
I can see an argument for Miren that it provides colorless(also good if Sisay is your general) but in my experience a free sac outlet that isn't inopportunely tapped is kind of nice. Since you are playing this land for its effect more so than the ability to generate (1) I feel that DV does the job better.
How often have you wished you hadnt tapped your miren after someone drops treachery,living death,Gilded Drake,{insert tuck effect here} etc. If you havent played with Diamond Valley you will obv disagree but if you have Im sure you prefer it over miren.
I run them if theres no reason not to. Yes in my 5color I run all 5 onslaught and ways to get them but im also running all duals life from the loam/astral slide and a TON of 187 critters.
As mentioned it lets you up your land count which is VERY beneficial in certain decks.
I also tend to stay away from loam engine in alot of my decks as the added GY attention can really hurt you if you are running combo or alot of key cards.
In most mono white decks and mono red id say ya they are an auto include just for the opportunity to turn dead draws into something those colors lack.
Perhaps i could shut him up if i posted my hanna list. Proving its validity as being both synergestic and a soft-lock. Ill try and get to that when i get some free time. Deck has now won me 6 games and almost won the 7th. Ill get some more in on modo and kitchen table games and post the list i like the best when i can.
Again i NEVER said Combo. Its exactly what you just said... Synergy. Go look up what a SOFT LOCK IS. Also Null Brooch and Ertai Stop every card you listed except Obliterate to which most locks fall to(hence the pointlessness of saying card A beats card B). I do enjoy that you wasted your time looking up a list of random crap cards no one plays with to stop an idea i wanted to share with a casual community. Its almost the same satisfaction i get when i pull out hanna to grief the combo decks in the first place. =)
elesh norn + dovescape is nice. Not a combo, really, but nice. torpor orb really has nothing to do with it, and this thread has torpor orb right in the title.
No one said combo. Its called a soft-lock. Obviously you have never used dovescape. It dies to Acidic Slime. Torpor orb shuts that off.
Now you can play your elesh norn and proceed to own the table since your oppoenent "cant" play non creature spells and the ones they can are just big dumb creatures. Torpor orb locks out all utility creatures so they are left with Craw Wurms that i really dont fear.
why would u run torpor orb over Stifle in that scenario? Also like i said its a soft lock. You are going to be able to do stuff still while they cannot. With Torpor Orb unlike humility you can still do stuff.
Im pretty sure my army of 3/3s is gonna be more efficient than your 1 primeval titan who is a 4/4..... Ive already gotten it setup in my hannah deck twice and i easily won both games soon after.
Also, ty forgot about Guile. Gonna go throw that in there quick.
If im right you can also drop elesh norn and another -1/-1 static effect to make it a true lock. There are a few critters that could get around the lock otherwise. Also humility might work instead of Elesh Norn.
Stuff to cut:
Nullmage Advocate
Metathran Soldier
Drifter il-dal ... so bad
Thalakos Sentry
Jhessian Infiltrator
Bloom Tender
Bops
Viridian Emmisary
Serendib Sorcerer
4 Island
2 Forest
So 16 slots if my math is right:
*Seedborne Muse
Nevinyrral's Disk ~ works well with capsize.
*Duplicant
Crystal Shard ~ Does so much in u/g
Venser (really good with Riptide Labratory or Crystal Shard)
Acidic Slime
Whispersilk Cloak ~ Seems like a great place to run it
*Praetor's Council ~ goes in EVERY green deck, tooo good
Primeval Titan ~ If you have one.
Wasteland/Strip Mine ~Another one is nice
Genesis ~ Is very nice with Survival
Momir Vig ~ Could defffinetly See some potential here
Oracle of Mul Daya ~ Is always nice
Nevermaker ~ Im a big fan of this guy another decent removal spell in blue.
Genesis Wave ~ Is even more broken with counter backup.
*Gildred Drake ~ Reuseable removal is nice.
*= Stuff that seems like auto includes
Jin Gitaxias from NPH would solve the opponent getting too much CA problem
I cant wait to get concecrated Sphinx and eldric going /giggle
City can get out of hand very quickly. Very similar to Gaeas Cradle but if they do wipe your board it sticks around.
Saporling Burst is crazy good with doubling season or proliferate shennanigans
Attrition was some good back in the day and in a token deck it still is. Its like 1/2 a pact and with a pact on the table, empties the board VERY quickly.
Contagion engine just screams for some love and this is the only deck i feel is perfect for it.
I can see an argument for Miren that it provides colorless(also good if Sisay is your general) but in my experience a free sac outlet that isn't inopportunely tapped is kind of nice. Since you are playing this land for its effect more so than the ability to generate (1) I feel that DV does the job better.
How often have you wished you hadnt tapped your miren after someone drops treachery,living death,Gilded Drake,{insert tuck effect here} etc. If you havent played with Diamond Valley you will obv disagree but if you have Im sure you prefer it over miren.
Rainbow Vale is pretty sweet too.
As mentioned it lets you up your land count which is VERY beneficial in certain decks.
I also tend to stay away from loam engine in alot of my decks as the added GY attention can really hurt you if you are running combo or alot of key cards.
In most mono white decks and mono red id say ya they are an auto include just for the opportunity to turn dead draws into something those colors lack.
No one said combo. Its called a soft-lock. Obviously you have never used dovescape. It dies to Acidic Slime. Torpor orb shuts that off.
Now you can play your elesh norn and proceed to own the table since your oppoenent "cant" play non creature spells and the ones they can are just big dumb creatures. Torpor orb locks out all utility creatures so they are left with Craw Wurms that i really dont fear.
Im pretty sure my army of 3/3s is gonna be more efficient than your 1 primeval titan who is a 4/4..... Ive already gotten it setup in my hannah deck twice and i easily won both games soon after.
Also, ty forgot about Guile. Gonna go throw that in there quick.
Anwyays:
Dovescape + Torpor Orb is a very strong soft lock.
If im right you can also drop elesh norn and another -1/-1 static effect to make it a true lock. There are a few critters that could get around the lock otherwise. Also humility might work instead of Elesh Norn.
Stuff to cut:
Nullmage Advocate
Metathran Soldier
Drifter il-dal ... so bad
Thalakos Sentry
Jhessian Infiltrator
Bloom Tender
Bops
Viridian Emmisary
Serendib Sorcerer
4 Island
2 Forest
So 16 slots if my math is right:
*Seedborne Muse
Nevinyrral's Disk ~ works well with capsize.
*Duplicant
Crystal Shard ~ Does so much in u/g
Venser (really good with Riptide Labratory or Crystal Shard)
Acidic Slime
Whispersilk Cloak ~ Seems like a great place to run it
*Praetor's Council ~ goes in EVERY green deck, tooo good
Primeval Titan ~ If you have one.
Wasteland/Strip Mine ~Another one is nice
Genesis ~ Is very nice with Survival
Momir Vig ~ Could defffinetly See some potential here
Oracle of Mul Daya ~ Is always nice
Nevermaker ~ Im a big fan of this guy another decent removal spell in blue.
Genesis Wave ~ Is even more broken with counter backup.
*Gildred Drake ~ Reuseable removal is nice.
*= Stuff that seems like auto includes
Jin Gitaxias from NPH would solve the opponent getting too much CA problem
I cant wait to get concecrated Sphinx and eldric going /giggle
Seedborne Muse is an auto include if you run tradewind rider+Mystic snake.
I would cut the CRAP unblockable guys leave in the better ones. Is Phantom warrior really worth a slot in an edh deck where he is worthless by turn 5?
Thalakos Deciever would seem to be the best one and you arent running him.
omw to work ill commment more later.