How do you know if there is a cop in this game? Why do you want the cop to claim?
Why are you such a supporter of town/scum lists even though they help scum? FoS Gigas1
1. I don't. But if there is, it would suck to have him die without sharing any results. If there are 2 scum left, that's 5 town. If one is the cop, he has a 20% chance of dieing. If Brinatoo and Arnaria are town, then there's a 33% chance of the cop, if he exists, dying. I'd rather take the risk there's no cop and we waste some time doing my suggestion than take the risk that there is a cop and he dies tonight without getting a chance to post his results.
2. I don't. Did you read that post? All of it was trying to get the cop's results out there without making him or her claim.
3. Did you read that post? All of it was trying to get the cop's results out there without making him or her claim. Everybody posting a town/scum list would help that. And unless everybody has at least one scum in the top 2 except for the cop, it won't help the scum. Where did you get the idea that posting town/scum lists helped the scum in the first place? Sure, it lets the scum know how accurate people's reads are, but I think we can assume the scum is good enough to identify dangerous players without them.
Gigas1 said "I didn't find any good reasons not to vote for him."
We're in day 3 and he's looking at the absence of reasons for why a person is townie to justify them as a target.
Unvote Vote Gigas1
Read my last post (before the one you quoted). I was intending to vote him, but thought it would be a good idea to reread to make sure there weren't any strong town tells. Here, I'll quote it for you.
I like this post a lot. I'm not sure if I have strong enough reads to support a massclaim at this point, but I understand the rationale, and agree completely with his analysis of Prophylaxis's final posts of the last day. I'm still in shock that TheVoid was town, but those last posts from Proph do NOT come from a town mindset. I'm going to reread him first, but I expect to vote him tomorrow.
Now, I didn't actually do it the day after I made that post, but I don't think being busy is a scum tell.
I think we should lynch Arnnaria because:
1. He blatantly fished
2. When calling me scummy wouldn't provide a case
3. See 1 and 2.
Yeah, Arnnaria is town. Let's not vote for him. I mostly reread Proph, and I didn't find any good reasons not to vote for him.
Vote: Prophylaxis.
Edit while posting:
Unvote Prophylaxis. Did you full claim yet? If not, do so. We need to all post town/scum lists before the day ends. No reasons. This is so that if the cop dies tonight, we can look at their list for their investigation results. In addition, we should all post either "If I am the cop, none of my targets have died" or "If I am the cop, at least one of my targets has died." Vanilla towns/non-cop players pick at random, cop answers truthfully. I think this should give us all of the safeguards we need against the cop dying. If anyone can think of more things to make sure we get all of the cops targets in thread without revealing him or her should post them now. For this, I am assuming that if the cop found scum he would have revealed himself my now to lynch the scum. Thoughts on my proposals?
To the cop: If you are not actually a cop and are instead a tracker, post people that targeted nobody on the top of the list, and people that targeted somebody on the bottom of the list.
I'm posting to not get replaced. Sorry I haven't been active this game, I've been really busy with applying to colleges and other school related work. I'll be able to do better in a few days. I'll try to get caught up tomorrow.
Sure, your question was directed at Mu, but I did not know he was online and...
provided my input.
His response shortly after.
And the hammer.
HERE IS THE GREAT PART! TheVoid does his bah post and claims time. I would have /unvoted in a second if it was an illegitimate vote. I doubt he would lie, considering his spontaneity during the game.
No, you screwed the pooch. Do you realize that he admitted being vanilla when no consequences were to come of it?
Oh, and the flavor shows that it was an illegitimate vote. "Prophlaxis silences the crowd by pulling out his gun. *click* "****." He puts a clip in and cocks back the hammer. "Should be better this time" BANG."
Your vote was still on Arnnaria.
Reasons stated earlier, as shown by Trusted Wave.
Arigato.
1. Yea, terrible case. Explained below.
2. Why did you grab YESTERDAYS material. We had a deadline. We had to end the day quick on account of their being a deadline.........
3. Really?
4. Stop using the word eagerness... It is not an appropriate term to condemn scum. Town can be excited to lynch (who they think is) scum. I was wrong, TheVoid was just very sporatic and hard to follow and who I thought could be scum.
Okay, so here is what is left of our game:
3 VT are dead.
1 Town Doc is dead.
1 Role cop Scum is dead.
There is two scum left. Likely one with an ability.
Town, likely has two power roles left, none of which has claimed and none of which has said if they were roleblocked or anything.
12 People Total:
3 scum (likely one PR, one goon are alive) 1 dead
9 Town (3 PR, 6 VT). 1 dead PR, 3 dead VT. 2 alive PR, 3 alive VT.
2 + 2 + 3 = 7
Arnnaria has claimed VT, I am VT, there is one other VT. Any other people that claim it, means that their is a scum among. This is assuming that Arnnaria is telling the truth and a 4th VT does not come into the picture.
The rest of is A PR.
I think it is Sir Mu with Proph. And here is another thing I want to point out:
If I was scum: I would have shot Proph on account of him probably being a vig. There is not doctor to protect him. He did not die last night. He is probably scum.
Pinkfloyd. If you continue to stay on your case of me and Arnnaria, fine. I will think that, if I am wrong about Sir Mu/Proph, it is you who is scum.
In all honesty. I want our PR's to claim. Not much of VT is left anyway to take the shots and you will likely be killed anyway by odds (fortunately we were lucky about scum hitting VT alot) and it would be much more productive for town if you claimed, so that we know who is confirmed town and we can narrow our investigation.
These are my thoughts: have at them.
I like this post a lot. I'm not sure if I have strong enough reads to support a massclaim at this point, but I understand the rationale, and agree completely with his analysis of Prophylaxis's final posts of the last day. I'm still in shock that TheVoid was town, but those last posts from Proph do NOT come from a town mindset. I'm going to reread him first, but I expect to vote him tomorrow.
Memorable moments:
Super Mario Mafia: Mandershex set up a perfect scum victory by playing the town for fools.
With all due respect for Manders, that was a team effort. I don't think you can just point to one person as the one that set up a perfect scum win. The fact that none of us got lynched is evidence that we all played well.
Anyway, I suppose I'll also do this.
Gigas aka Ben.
I'm a 17 year old high school student, and have no idea what I want to do for a career. I started playing MTG when Lorwyn came out, and haven't really played since Scars of Mirrodin. I started playing mafia here in 2009, and really sucked for my first few games, then had two really good games in a row. Since then, I have been average at best.
Memorable moments:
Accidentally daykilling Cyan in Hecatea.
Surviving for 2 days after being outed as SK in Hecatea, then coming within a 50/50 chance of getting the town to let me win.
The confusion that came up whenever somebody was lynched by Gigas1 in Hetalia mafia.
Heart of Draco: You need to slow down. I don't see how you can be that specific with everyone when there are some who have not been posting much, therefore making a rather difficult read. Suspicions noted for trying to get a quick lynch, althought I thinking of Heart of Draco as more nuetral, because of Fluffyn00b.
Alright, neutral read on Draco because of Fluffyn00b. Why is it neutral? Thankfully, we get that answer in just a little bit.
5. Fluffyn00b: This one is tough to read due lack of experience and just not posting enough. The posts he has made have been slightly scummy, but the one that caught my eye the most is this:
It's your first game, got it. Common sense should tell you the retaliation is never good. Leaning scum currently.
Because of a scum read on Fluffyn00b, you have a neutral read on Draco. Everything's fine-ish there.
When I replaced in and presented a case against Fullfyn00b, Draco followed my reasoning and voted for Fluffyn00b. Because of this, I doubt Draco would be Mafia simply because I doubt he would vote for his own team. Could be wrong, but this is what I am seeing.
That sounds like a town read, not a more neutral than neutral read. Why are you referring to it as a neutral read? The answer is simple: This way you can say you had a town read on him the whole time, but you don't need to make a case or try to stop his lynch.
You would go me for next, when I have had two correct reads on players. One being mafia and the other being town? Please exaplain your logic for this.
And you do that right here. You say you correctly read him... but the read you stated was more neutral than neutral. Sure, you gave reasons for him being town, but apparently those reasons ended up being inconclusive, hence the extremely neutral read.
So let me get this straight. I make two correct reads on players, one being mafia. And because I interacted with Flufflyn00b once with a vote, you are going to think of me as possible scum? What kind of ****** logic is this.
Also, I have noticed that you did not have one single interaction with
Flufflyn00b. Could this be because you are scum as well? I think so.
FoS: Sir Mu
What kind of logic is this? The same kind that leads you to FoS a person for doing something the vast majority of the town did. And you continue to go on about how you correctly read these players, but one of them was a very neutral read, and the other was slightly scummy. Notice anything special about those reads? It allows him to get on or off the wagons with ease, and to claim he's right when they flip.
Because I have had a read of leaning town on Sir Mu until this point. At this point, I find Sir Mu neutral, but becoming close to leaning scum.
Leaning scum was enough for a vote before, was it not? Again, remember the reads he has on Sir Mu. Leaning town up until he suggests targeting TheVoid958 for interactions with fluffy.
@Brinatoo:
Who says I was reffering to Sir Mu? Since the beginning of the game, you have made comments about posts and either agreed with the post or disagreed and then don’t supply more information. You only recently started adding context to your posts, but even then I still see fence sitting. For the first part of your posts, just before post 170, all you did was /barn and fence sit. In post 170, you finally start communication about Fluffyn00b and have suggestions on where to go. And even then I still see a fence sit in a post or two. I also find it strange how easily Trusted Wave got you to change your FoS on Sir Mu to a vote. Does simple pressure like so make you rethink your actions?
This looks like opportunistic scum.
Alright, now we're getting somewhere. A scum read on Brinatoo with some decent reasons.
@Sir Mu:
I like the analysis you gave on the voters for Flufflyn00b, but I see one issue with it. What if all voters flip town? If my math is correct, that would end up in LyLo and you being the scum behind it.
So, you agree with this analysis. But disagree because a worst case scenario exists? So what this exchange basically looks like is
MU: I think _____, ______, and ______ are scum for reasons X, Y, and Z.
THEVOID: I agree, but what if they're town? Vote: Sir Mu.
I’m looking at 3 possible suspects right now. Arnnaria, Prophylaxis and Sir Mu. I’m leaning more towards Prophylaxis.
Vote: Prophylaxis
Wait... where did the Brinatoo suspicion go? Earlier you stated you thought he was very likely scum, and gave better reasons than what you gave for these 3, but he is not on your list of possible suspects?
1) I'm not saying town/scum lists are bad, but can you tell the difference between a townie's list and mafia's list? I now I still have trouble.
That's not the point of a scum list. The point is that a person will have a definite record of their reads, likely with reasons, so that if they suddenly start attacking a person, we will know when and where the suspicion came from.
You say that Gigas has not given an adequate reasons, but he has. I see the misunderstanding, but for some reason, Sir Mu, you can't drop it. While being aggresive may not be a scum tell, being aggresive towards someone who has clerified his misunderstanding, and with good support, is a scum tell in my eyes, and now I'm curious...
Did you remember the first quote like I asked you to? Earlier, he thought this was good scum hunting and analysis, without any malice. Now it's attempting to force a mislynch. What part of these posts changed since then? Hopefully nothing.
Didn't you attack Brinatoo earlier for not being willing to vote a person without some support? Yet now you wait until somebody else is shown to be suspicious of Sir Mu before voting him.
Arnnaria:
What is the deal with your flavor gaming? You have now forced a claim upon Proph and are trying to ride it out. I sure hope that Proph is scum now, if not, then we lost a PR because of you. If we lose a PR, then you become #1 scum. Please stop flavor gaming. I'm not releasing any information from my PM Role, with exception to me name obviously, which I now find a mistake. I will only release my flavor if I am forced to claim.
So, he's on a wagon you endorse, but not for reasons you endorse? And it will be his fault alone if Proph is lynched, not anybody else's, because he had the wrong reasons for his vote? But you have said earlier that there are plenty of valid reasons to vote him. If there are good reasons to vote him, which you voted him for, then shouldn't that mean you also think he should be lynched? Then why will the blame rest solely with him?
Also Arnnaria, you might as well fully claim, because most of your information is now present to everyone.
Well, THAT is some fairly blatant fishing. So he posted a lot of flavor, so he should just claim fully? But flavorgaming doesn't work, as you just said. So why should he full claim?
Wait, so because you got the wrong term on a small part of your case, it completely voids all of it? You were reading him as scum before that, why does losing that one small part suddenly make your case go away?
Forgot to issue vote back to orignal scum suspect.
Vote: Jules Prophylaxis
Again, why should Arnarria shoulder any more of the blame if Proph turns out to be town then you? You have an equal vote on it, and you have other, stronger reasons. So why should none of the blame come to you?
@Sir Mu:
Case is voided because i misunderstood the term for fishing and all that leaves me with is a couple of sketchy posts, and that is not enough to warrants a vote. I thought you were fishing for some time, but you corrected me.
Uhh... you never actually mentioned him fishing before that. And had an FoS on him before that. And listed him in your top 3 suspects before that. Why does losing a piece of evidence that came AFTER all of those reasons make those reasons invalid?
Gigas1: Not claimed (I am pretty damn sure he is Yolanda(Honey Bunny))
You are correct, but I receive no mention of "Honey Bunny" in my role PM. I assume it's a nickname in the movie. Do I need flavor with that? I just read the list of claims and guessed we were massclaiming, so I am not caught up on the thread at all. Sorry, my vacation went a day longer than expected. Good post after school today.
Vote: Prophylaxis. If you can give me a good explanation for your actions at the end of day 2, I may reconsider this vote.
My mistake, I thought you were at L-2. I'm going to wait for a votecount before putting my vote back on you, though, just to make sure.
1. I don't. But if there is, it would suck to have him die without sharing any results. If there are 2 scum left, that's 5 town. If one is the cop, he has a 20% chance of dieing. If Brinatoo and Arnaria are town, then there's a 33% chance of the cop, if he exists, dying. I'd rather take the risk there's no cop and we waste some time doing my suggestion than take the risk that there is a cop and he dies tonight without getting a chance to post his results.
2. I don't. Did you read that post? All of it was trying to get the cop's results out there without making him or her claim.
3. Did you read that post? All of it was trying to get the cop's results out there without making him or her claim. Everybody posting a town/scum list would help that. And unless everybody has at least one scum in the top 2 except for the cop, it won't help the scum. Where did you get the idea that posting town/scum lists helped the scum in the first place? Sure, it lets the scum know how accurate people's reads are, but I think we can assume the scum is good enough to identify dangerous players without them.
Asking if we're at lynch or lose is a pretty good town tell.
Now, I didn't actually do it the day after I made that post, but I don't think being busy is a scum tell.
Yeah, Arnnaria is town. Let's not vote for him. I mostly reread Proph, and I didn't find any good reasons not to vote for him.
Vote: Prophylaxis.
Edit while posting:
Unvote Prophylaxis. Did you full claim yet? If not, do so. We need to all post town/scum lists before the day ends. No reasons. This is so that if the cop dies tonight, we can look at their list for their investigation results. In addition, we should all post either "If I am the cop, none of my targets have died" or "If I am the cop, at least one of my targets has died." Vanilla towns/non-cop players pick at random, cop answers truthfully. I think this should give us all of the safeguards we need against the cop dying. If anyone can think of more things to make sure we get all of the cops targets in thread without revealing him or her should post them now. For this, I am assuming that if the cop found scum he would have revealed himself my now to lynch the scum. Thoughts on my proposals?
To the cop: If you are not actually a cop and are instead a tracker, post people that targeted nobody on the top of the list, and people that targeted somebody on the bottom of the list.
Hey! I lead one of those. Quit stealing the credit...
I like this post a lot. I'm not sure if I have strong enough reads to support a massclaim at this point, but I understand the rationale, and agree completely with his analysis of Prophylaxis's final posts of the last day. I'm still in shock that TheVoid was town, but those last posts from Proph do NOT come from a town mindset. I'm going to reread him first, but I expect to vote him tomorrow.
With all due respect for Manders, that was a team effort. I don't think you can just point to one person as the one that set up a perfect scum win. The fact that none of us got lynched is evidence that we all played well.
Anyway, I suppose I'll also do this.
Gigas aka Ben.
I'm a 17 year old high school student, and have no idea what I want to do for a career. I started playing MTG when Lorwyn came out, and haven't really played since Scars of Mirrodin. I started playing mafia here in 2009, and really sucked for my first few games, then had two really good games in a row. Since then, I have been average at best.
Memorable moments:
Accidentally daykilling Cyan in Hecatea.
Surviving for 2 days after being outed as SK in Hecatea, then coming within a 50/50 chance of getting the town to let me win.
The confusion that came up whenever somebody was lynched by Gigas1 in Hetalia mafia.
What part of my case depends on OMGUS?
Remember this part for later.
Alright, neutral read on Draco because of Fluffyn00b. Why is it neutral? Thankfully, we get that answer in just a little bit.
Because of a scum read on Fluffyn00b, you have a neutral read on Draco. Everything's fine-ish there.
So... you have a more neutral than neutral read on him now?
That sounds like a town read, not a more neutral than neutral read. Why are you referring to it as a neutral read? The answer is simple: This way you can say you had a town read on him the whole time, but you don't need to make a case or try to stop his lynch.
And you do that right here. You say you correctly read him... but the read you stated was more neutral than neutral. Sure, you gave reasons for him being town, but apparently those reasons ended up being inconclusive, hence the extremely neutral read.
What kind of logic is this? The same kind that leads you to FoS a person for doing something the vast majority of the town did. And you continue to go on about how you correctly read these players, but one of them was a very neutral read, and the other was slightly scummy. Notice anything special about those reads? It allows him to get on or off the wagons with ease, and to claim he's right when they flip.
Leaning scum was enough for a vote before, was it not? Again, remember the reads he has on Sir Mu. Leaning town up until he suggests targeting TheVoid958 for interactions with fluffy.
Okay, I look forward to this case of yours.
Alright, now we're getting somewhere. A scum read on Brinatoo with some decent reasons.
So, you agree with this analysis. But disagree because a worst case scenario exists? So what this exchange basically looks like is
MU: I think _____, ______, and ______ are scum for reasons X, Y, and Z.
THEVOID: I agree, but what if they're town? Vote: Sir Mu.
Wait... where did the Brinatoo suspicion go? Earlier you stated you thought he was very likely scum, and gave better reasons than what you gave for these 3, but he is not on your list of possible suspects?
That's not the point of a scum list. The point is that a person will have a definite record of their reads, likely with reasons, so that if they suddenly start attacking a person, we will know when and where the suspicion came from.
Okay, a bit of suspicion for Sir Mu. Not for a particularly good reason, but now there is a bit more suspicion against him.
Did you remember the first quote like I asked you to? Earlier, he thought this was good scum hunting and analysis, without any malice. Now it's attempting to force a mislynch. What part of these posts changed since then? Hopefully nothing.
Yet another thing on the growing pile of evidence against Sir Mu.
Didn't you attack Brinatoo earlier for not being willing to vote a person without some support? Yet now you wait until somebody else is shown to be suspicious of Sir Mu before voting him.
So, he's on a wagon you endorse, but not for reasons you endorse? And it will be his fault alone if Proph is lynched, not anybody else's, because he had the wrong reasons for his vote? But you have said earlier that there are plenty of valid reasons to vote him. If there are good reasons to vote him, which you voted him for, then shouldn't that mean you also think he should be lynched? Then why will the blame rest solely with him?
Well, THAT is some fairly blatant fishing. So he posted a lot of flavor, so he should just claim fully? But flavorgaming doesn't work, as you just said. So why should he full claim?
Wait, so because you got the wrong term on a small part of your case, it completely voids all of it? You were reading him as scum before that, why does losing that one small part suddenly make your case go away?
Again, why should Arnarria shoulder any more of the blame if Proph turns out to be town then you? You have an equal vote on it, and you have other, stronger reasons. So why should none of the blame come to you?
Uhh... you never actually mentioned him fishing before that. And had an FoS on him before that. And listed him in your top 3 suspects before that. Why does losing a piece of evidence that came AFTER all of those reasons make those reasons invalid?
I have good reasons for this vote(I think). I don't have time to elaborate right now, but I will be providing a case hopefully tomorrow.
You are correct, but I receive no mention of "Honey Bunny" in my role PM. I assume it's a nickname in the movie. Do I need flavor with that? I just read the list of claims and guessed we were massclaiming, so I am not caught up on the thread at all. Sorry, my vacation went a day longer than expected. Good post after school today.