Scion_ of_ Darkness Posted Yesterday, 05:09 PM
The dictionary of Scion.
Suk-Sess.
1) To succeed at a goal you have/had.
2) To make meaning of your life.
Okay, this little post, inspired a firestorm of thought in my head.
What is it with the magic community and dictionaries? Whenever there's the slightest indication of conflict, someone always has to whip out the dictionary and say this is the way it's gotta be because one book says so. But nobody ever bothers to think for themselves. For example, you ask a man what his definition of success is, and he copy and pastes the definition of success from the dictionary. What gives? Can someone else see how there is something seriously wrong here?
Maybe it's because there are some many mathmaticians and scientists playing magic, and they're not used to thinking for themselves, and they're just used to dealing with inflexible facts. Or maybe it's because they just like flaunting some "authority", thinking it'll help force their point across. I dunno. But I don't like it when people use the dictionary to "nit-pick" or say that their opinion is based on *this* definition. Think for yourself, people.
No offense scion. I know you didn't copy and paste your definition of success from the dictionary, but I know a LOT of magic players that would.
P.S. I've got nothing about the dictionary, honestly, I don't. I think it's a great tool for learning, but I don't think people should allow one book to run their lives. It'd be just like someone who reads the bible, and then decides, okay, this book will be the ultimate authority in everything I do and say. It's WRONG!
Ok, this game worked out really well in the other forum, and we at gamingetc got a huge kick outta this. So, I thought I'd share the game with salvationers.
Here's how the game works:
Say a short sentence, then have the next person repeat it with an additional word or phrase. Each person takes turns building a longer add-a-word sentence. (Example: The boy danced. The chubby boy danced. The chubby boy danced in his speedos). These can be very funny, and I thought it would be fun for the whole forum to build together to help pass the time. I'll start this thing off:
-----------------------------
The moderator banned
Binary Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaddock Well, I wasn't involved in the actual design of the cards, but the owner of etc said that he didn't want to risk getting into some legal entanglement with wotc, so he opted for a different, shorter name.
I can't buy that argument because the shortened version of "Ancestral Recall" that was used is still the same name as a tournament-legal Magic card.
But that's the truth. Honest. Why else would gamingetc decide to do it? Do you think they would opt for a name more divorced from the magic world than the actual one? Of course not. The owner himself said it was to avoid legal ramifications.
And just as a courtesy, I guess I'll entertain your point: Guessing that you were referring to the card Recall, gamingetc was probably thinking that if wotc wanted to sue them for making the proxy, wotc would not be able to make a strong case that etc stole wotc's intellectual property, using the single word "Recall" as evidence. Seeing how "recall" is a generic term. But "Ancestral Recall" isn't. The likelyhood of those two words being strung together by pure chance is far less than "recall" showing up on its own.
There are two problems with that argument.
1)You're assuming that everyone involved is going to know what "Power Nine" means. This may or may not be a safe assumption depending on the environment.
Like someone said on mtgnews, even if someone isn't a T1 player, if he doesn't know what the power 9 cards are, then he shouldn't even be playing.
2)You're assuming that even the people who know what the Power Nine is actually knows how the cards work. I was actually present at an event (I think it was Origins last year) where a judge ruled Time Walk could be deflected.
How can someone know what the Power 9 is, and not know how they work? I think you thought too hard Binary.
If you take a look at the way design has developed, you will notice cleaner, clearer text. A shift from lots of icons to clearly placed well-developed layouts and a more cohesive theme. This cohesiveness seperates areas of the card with layout boxes (similar to the direction the above battletech card was slowly progressing towards-thats the last one). They also remove symbols that have no gameplay value and would otherwise confuse a player (does this green circle mean I have to spend green resources, why do some guys that look the same have a square instead of a circle here)..
Take a look at some newer design space to see what I mean:
I see what you mean. But if you're saying that the etc proxy is taking a step back from a design perspective, I'm going to have to challenge you on that point. Let's look at some of the points you brought up. You were talking about cohesiveness (but whats there to bring together?), cleaner text (but I can read the text just fine), and well-placed symbols (but...but...but....ok...so maybe those sphere on the etc proxy ARE unnecessary, but it gives it a distinctive look AND etc can't use wotc's mana symbols, they could get sued). Now with that said, and given the legal limitations imposed on etc for making the proxies, surely you still can't say that the proxies are all that bad?
You tell me...which group of templates the ones used for these proxies belong in...
I think it kind of looks like the new magic card design actually, but more cartoonish. So it's not that bad.
EradQuote:
I challenge anyone here to make a better proxy than gamingetc's (and I mean with new original artwork).
If you're all subjective, I doubt my efforts in this thing
I like that proxy a lot. If I saw that proxy sitting in a shop window, I would seriously consider buying it. The design is fantastic, the art is wonderful, the only problem you'd have is the inability to sell it for $$$ (seeing how wotc would swoop down and throw you in court for using "mox diamond," the mana symbol, and the intellectual infringement (the mox's ability). It's really good, and probably has better art for diamond than the one etc has.
@Shaddock:
I would still like to see you address the issue where the names of your proxies can easily be confused with other cards.
Well, I wasn't involved in the actual design of the cards, but the owner of etc said that he didn't want to risk getting into some legal entanglement with wotc, so he opted for a different, shorter name. As for the confusion, the subtitle for the etc proxy clearly states "Power 9." And that immediately clears up any confusion there might be between "Mox Emerald" and "Emerald Mox." Besides....aren't the abilities of the Power 9 cards common knowledge?
Tidwell Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaddock I resent that.
As one of the admins at gamingetc, there's no way how I can be objective about these proxies, so I won't claim to be. Like bjx, I really like the idea behind selling proxies of popular cards with new artwork, but unlike cynical, I don't think they're all "ugly as crap". Did you guys take a look at lotus or twister? How can you not appreciate the artwork there? Sure it's a bit on the cartoonish/anime side, but that's what I like about it. It's different, and it's better alternative to making crappy proxies like tid's (no offense, but when you said you only spent 15 minutes on your proxy....it showed).
I challenge anyone here to make a better proxy than gamingetc's (and I mean with new original artwork).
I'm not disagreeing that the art on all these is very good. The frames, however, look like they are straight out of a reject 1999 card game. They don't have mana costs, card types, and the flavor text is almost as bad as the frames. The names arent even full. These aren't even possible to use in a 5proxy tournament because of that. I don't know about you, but that quick proxy at least kept the magic flavor. If you want a proxy set, then heck yes one can look better than this. If you want to sell proxies, your stuck by legal limitations. Still..you don't have to use the reject wyvern frames and See-spot-run flavor text.
Edit: I don't really see how the '15 minutes' shows in what I posted. It is at least representative of magic:
Ok...I've looked over your proxy, and it's not as bad as I thought it was before. But etc's framework is still better because at least its frames don't eat up about 3/5 of art. I don't know about this "reject 1999 card game" you're talking about, but even if that game sucked, it shouldn't stop you from enjoying the high-quality proxy gamingetc is offering to the magic community. Clearly, they're aimed to players wwho just play magic for fun, casual gamers, who don't give a **** about how the etc frames compare to the original ones.
And one more thing....you'll get used to them. If my memory serves me correctly, there was once a time when wizards decided to implement new card frames. Well, initially, this had the whole magic comminity screaming bloody murder, and people thought doomsday had come for magic...what with millions threatening to leave the game. A few months later, there wasn't so much of peep. People got used to them. And you and Belgareth will get used to the etc frames, IF you just give them a chance.
CynicalSquirrel Quote: Originally Posted by Belgareth Seriously though why use these over photocopies or printed ones ?
These are not tourney legal proxies so why not use the originals , imho the art was better even on them
Some people enjoy playing with more elegant cards. Not everyone who uses power 9 proxies is going to major Type One tournaments. It's not like you're paying huge prices for them, they're just for fun.
Oddity Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalSquirrel I'm a very prominent member at the forums there, and everyone there LOVES them for some reason. I agree with everyone here that they're ugly as crap, and a waste of space. Not to mention they aren't even legal in any tournament play as proxies.
Because everybody there that agrees with them are either morons or sycophants, or both?
I resent that.
As one of the admins at gamingetc, there's no way how I can be objective about these proxies, so I won't claim to be. Like bjx, I really like the idea behind selling proxies of popular cards with new artwork, but unlike cynical, I don't think they're all "ugly as crap". Did you guys take a look at lotus or twister? How can you not appreciate the artwork there? Sure it's a bit on the cartoonish/anime side, but that's what I like about it. It's different, and it's better alternative to making crappy proxies like tid's (no offense, but when you said you only spent 15 minutes on your proxy....it showed).
I challenge anyone here to make a better proxy than gamingetc's (and I mean with new original artwork).
Yes. A lot of schools will provide at least the essentials for the students ( such as pens, pencils and paper ). Schools already do provide quite a bit, its not like you have to have to bring your own desk and chair to school.
Gah, that'd rock. Though lugging around a giant recliner would get a bit difficult. Anyway, I think DotPs been suffieciently pwnt on that point.
Dragon, you could ask her if powerpoint presentations OK. Personally, I think it would be an good solution.
Thanks, I can read. I can also infer a purpose from her actions.
Oh, I guess you could, but I still trying to understand how. Not trying to give you a hard time or anything
I beleive its more about exploring than anything else. When somebody tells you that your not to do something, usually, the responce is " Why? What is so great or so bad enough that I shouldent do it?" Also, its kind of like a search for your own voice in a sense. And, as for the argueing for the sake or argueing, thats more just entertainment value.;)
Wouldn't it have just been easier to ask, "why?" And I can understand that arguing can entertaining at times, but it can also get irritating - fast. Especially when you're trying to give a well thought out opinion, but all people want to do is just tear it down. It's frustrating, and it doesn't create a good classroom environment, IMO.
Like my business law teacher. All he does is argue with his students. And I don't know whether he truly understood my idea and disagreed OR if he just argued without really listening.
x vbmenu_register("postmenu_18422", true);
Ironman Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 153
I am on her side charitably, but your's on the issue at hand.
In other words, you should give your money, but she has no right to force you.
__________________
Don't mean to be rude, but the teacher never forced him to donate. The problem is that teacher shouldn't have embarassed dragon right in front of the class when she said he was wrong.
Being born in a heavily asian environment, the one thing I don't get about the American culture is why teenagers feel a need to rebel against things that are taboo (actions that a forbidden by socially pressure like the F*** word)?
In school, in one class, I've got a classroom full of people arguing for the sake of arguing; in gym, I've got people approaching me, "joking" about sex, drugs, odd people...and I just can't find those things very fun because I know it's bad.
I asked that same question, dragon, when I heard about this tsunami. I knew it sounded cold, but I just had to ask why. What I learned from my parents was this:
-It was the biggest natural disaster in HISTORY!!! (think about that for a sec.)
-What is a Tsunami: An underwater earthquake, which causes massive tidal waves.
-There is a story about a Tsunami in Japan (during WWII?), where two fishermen came back to find the whole island in watery ruins.
Now if your teacher REALLY wanted to get you guys to care, instead of acting all "oooh, look at me, I'm so generous and you're not", she should've have taped some of the news and showed it to you guys in class...
Once you actually see some of the news...the footage...the horror stories...you'll understand.
She had the guts to say "That's really bad. You're beliefs are wrong"
Okay, this little post, inspired a firestorm of thought in my head.
What is it with the magic community and dictionaries? Whenever there's the slightest indication of conflict, someone always has to whip out the dictionary and say this is the way it's gotta be because one book says so. But nobody ever bothers to think for themselves. For example, you ask a man what his definition of success is, and he copy and pastes the definition of success from the dictionary. What gives? Can someone else see how there is something seriously wrong here?
Maybe it's because there are some many mathmaticians and scientists playing magic, and they're not used to thinking for themselves, and they're just used to dealing with inflexible facts. Or maybe it's because they just like flaunting some "authority", thinking it'll help force their point across. I dunno. But I don't like it when people use the dictionary to "nit-pick" or say that their opinion is based on *this* definition. Think for yourself, people.
No offense scion. I know you didn't copy and paste your definition of success from the dictionary, but I know a LOT of magic players that would.
P.S. I've got nothing about the dictionary, honestly, I don't. I think it's a great tool for learning, but I don't think people should allow one book to run their lives. It'd be just like someone who reads the bible, and then decides, okay, this book will be the ultimate authority in everything I do and say. It's WRONG!
Here's how the game works:
Say a short sentence, then have the next person repeat it with an additional word or phrase. Each person takes turns building a longer add-a-word sentence. (Example: The boy danced. The chubby boy danced. The chubby boy danced in his speedos). These can be very funny, and I thought it would be fun for the whole forum to build together to help pass the time. I'll start this thing off:
-----------------------------
The moderator banned
But that's the truth. Honest. Why else would gamingetc decide to do it? Do you think they would opt for a name more divorced from the magic world than the actual one? Of course not. The owner himself said it was to avoid legal ramifications.
And just as a courtesy, I guess I'll entertain your point: Guessing that you were referring to the card Recall, gamingetc was probably thinking that if wotc wanted to sue them for making the proxy, wotc would not be able to make a strong case that etc stole wotc's intellectual property, using the single word "Recall" as evidence. Seeing how "recall" is a generic term. But "Ancestral Recall" isn't. The likelyhood of those two words being strung together by pure chance is far less than "recall" showing up on its own.
Like someone said on mtgnews, even if someone isn't a T1 player, if he doesn't know what the power 9 cards are, then he shouldn't even be playing.
How can someone know what the Power 9 is, and not know how they work? I think you thought too hard Binary.
I see what you mean. But if you're saying that the etc proxy is taking a step back from a design perspective, I'm going to have to challenge you on that point. Let's look at some of the points you brought up. You were talking about cohesiveness (but whats there to bring together?), cleaner text (but I can read the text just fine), and well-placed symbols (but...but...but....ok...so maybe those sphere on the etc proxy ARE unnecessary, but it gives it a distinctive look AND etc can't use wotc's mana symbols, they could get sued). Now with that said, and given the legal limitations imposed on etc for making the proxies, surely you still can't say that the proxies are all that bad?
I think it kind of looks like the new magic card design actually, but more cartoonish. So it's not that bad.
I like that proxy a lot. If I saw that proxy sitting in a shop window, I would seriously consider buying it. The design is fantastic, the art is wonderful, the only problem you'd have is the inability to sell it for $$$ (seeing how wotc would swoop down and throw you in court for using "mox diamond," the mana symbol, and the intellectual infringement (the mox's ability). It's really good, and probably has better art for diamond than the one etc has.
Well, I wasn't involved in the actual design of the cards, but the owner of etc said that he didn't want to risk getting into some legal entanglement with wotc, so he opted for a different, shorter name. As for the confusion, the subtitle for the etc proxy clearly states "Power 9." And that immediately clears up any confusion there might be between "Mox Emerald" and "Emerald Mox." Besides....aren't the abilities of the Power 9 cards common knowledge?
Ok...I've looked over your proxy, and it's not as bad as I thought it was before. But etc's framework is still better because at least its frames don't eat up about 3/5 of art. I don't know about this "reject 1999 card game" you're talking about, but even if that game sucked, it shouldn't stop you from enjoying the high-quality proxy gamingetc is offering to the magic community. Clearly, they're aimed to players wwho just play magic for fun, casual gamers, who don't give a **** about how the etc frames compare to the original ones.
And one more thing....you'll get used to them. If my memory serves me correctly, there was once a time when wizards decided to implement new card frames. Well, initially, this had the whole magic comminity screaming bloody murder, and people thought doomsday had come for magic...what with millions threatening to leave the game. A few months later, there wasn't so much of peep. People got used to them. And you and Belgareth will get used to the etc frames, IF you just give them a chance.
Agreed.
I resent that.
As one of the admins at gamingetc, there's no way how I can be objective about these proxies, so I won't claim to be. Like bjx, I really like the idea behind selling proxies of popular cards with new artwork, but unlike cynical, I don't think they're all "ugly as crap". Did you guys take a look at lotus or twister? How can you not appreciate the artwork there? Sure it's a bit on the cartoonish/anime side, but that's what I like about it. It's different, and it's better alternative to making crappy proxies like tid's (no offense, but when you said you only spent 15 minutes on your proxy....it showed).
I challenge anyone here to make a better proxy than gamingetc's (and I mean with new original artwork).
Dragon, you could ask her if powerpoint presentations OK. Personally, I think it would be an good solution.
Oh, I guess you could, but I still trying to understand how. Not trying to give you a hard time or anything
Wouldn't it have just been easier to ask, "why?" And I can understand that arguing can entertaining at times, but it can also get irritating - fast. Especially when you're trying to give a well thought out opinion, but all people want to do is just tear it down. It's frustrating, and it doesn't create a good classroom environment, IMO.
Like my business law teacher. All he does is argue with his students. And I don't know whether he truly understood my idea and disagreed OR if he just argued without really listening.
Don't mean to be rude, but the teacher never forced him to donate. The problem is that teacher shouldn't have embarassed dragon right in front of the class when she said he was wrong.
In school, in one class, I've got a classroom full of people arguing for the sake of arguing; in gym, I've got people approaching me, "joking" about sex, drugs, odd people...and I just can't find those things very fun because I know it's bad.
So what's with it?
I asked that same question, dragon, when I heard about this tsunami. I knew it sounded cold, but I just had to ask why. What I learned from my parents was this:
-It was the biggest natural disaster in HISTORY!!! (think about that for a sec.)
-What is a Tsunami: An underwater earthquake, which causes massive tidal waves.
-There is a story about a Tsunami in Japan (during WWII?), where two fishermen came back to find the whole island in watery ruins.
Now if your teacher REALLY wanted to get you guys to care, instead of acting all "oooh, look at me, I'm so generous and you're not", she should've have taped some of the news and showed it to you guys in class...
Once you actually see some of the news...the footage...the horror stories...you'll understand.
[Deleted]. She didn't have to say that.