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  • posted a message on [Deck]Zoo
    Quote from dwchang

    However, when you look at the scenario above, Zoo loses to Combo (always did) and now loses to Control making it a pretty unattractive deck.

    Trust me, I'd love for it to be a tier 1 deck again since it's my pet deck, but it's likely going to require Wizards printing something to help out.


    It's my pet deck too. I guess I'm just too hopeful on SB cards that answer those decks like: Grafdigger's Cage, Gaddock Teeg, Choke and REB's.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Deck]Zoo
    Quote from dwchang
    I don't know about the original pilot since Zoo is pretty old, but when I build any Legacy deck (other than Combo), I always start with basic lands. Preferably one of each type I need, but if that's not possible I look at the percentage breakdown of my colors and also what mana source I need early on. For Zoo, you need Forest and Mountain early.

    I am not sure with respect to your build, but traditionally speaking you need Forest to lay down Turn 1 Wild Nacatl and Turn 2 Tarmogoyf and for Mountain you need it to burn their blockers so you can get damage in. I realize you have dual lands to compensate, but in a meta filled with Wasteland, Blood Moon, etc. (maybe yours is not), I always fetch a basic turn 1 (when I have no information on my opponent's deck). For Zoo Forest and Mountain are the two sources you don't want to get locked out of. If you have those, you can at least play most of your spells. It's the same reason the majority of dual lands in Zoo are red-based (i.e. Taiga and Plateau).



    Yes it does look like the important basic land left out in exchange for more fetchlands or duals. I don't mean to be stubborn but i myself ask this question why was this left out. To me it also seems illogical.

    I sure hope Zoo regains its popularity as a deck. There is something with this aggro deck that makes my 'Timmy' side very happy.

    What is its weakness in today's metagame full of Show & Tell, RUG Delver, Shardless BUG and Stoneblade decks?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on In a MTG slump
    To be better at Magic you should practice and playtest often to get to know yourself, your deck and the metagame. But practice the right way. It is similar to practicing in any sport. If you practice something the wrong way you'll end up worse than the time you started playing Magic.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What is Your Treasure deck?
    I pimped out my Legacy Zoo deck before. But at one point, I got tired of it and revert most of the cards back into regular (and as much as possible) original art / print. I find them more valuable, I guess.

    I guess it is because cards like Price of Progress, Chain Lightning that were from the Fire & Lightning set were not as good as the 'real' foils. I can't explain exactly what it is but special set foils differ from the foils that you usually get from packs.

    I still play with some of the foiled cards especially the textless Lightning Bolt. That one is really special to me.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [Deck]Zoo
    Quote from dwchang
    Only thing I would change (keeping the same theme) is playing Path to Exile over Incinerate. I get that Incinerate is also a burn spell, but Path can get rid of stalled goyf vs. goyf board states and the pesky Griselbrands. Also your match-up Game 1 against combo looks pretty bad.

    Lastly surprised you have basic forest and plains, but not mountain. Red is probably the most important color based on your color breakdown (i.e. a lot of burn). I'd swap a Plateau for one or something.


    Will consider and playtest with the said changes. I am just happy with the consistency of this kind of build. It may not be the strongest or most effective build in today's metagame but it is good on putting the pressure to the opponent due to fact that the deck is packed with threats.

    I have been informed several times by people who have seen my deck that I need to run at least one basic Mountain. However, I am just curious to the reason why the original pilot of this deck built the manabase this way.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Deck]Zoo
    Currently I'm playing with a 25-15-20 variant of Zoo. Yep, 25 creatures and 15 burn spells. I need your inputs on it. I know this deck inside out that's why I kept playing it. You guys might provide me a new look on this deck and maybe a better understanding of it.

    It's a very traditional build with a high number of one-drops. My reasons for playing this variant are:

    1. Has limited information on our local metagame but it is very diverse (But a recent tournament Shardless Agent decks. I believe this is an isolated case.)

    2. Suits my playstyle.

    3. I know that Zoo loses to some of the matchups but I'm not really sure what SB card to put for those specific decks.



    Quote from AaronRodgers
    I think ghor-clan rampager is a really good answer to stalled boards... As is rancor, an old favorite for me


    I got myself a playset of Ghor-Clan Rampager because I enjoyed playing Zoo with Colossal Might before. I haven't tested them yet though.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Deck] Bant
    Quote from Warden


    I've been working off a team like this (aggro focused):
    4 Hierarch
    4 Goyf
    4 KotR
    3 RWM
    1 open slot --- pridemage, clique, witness, trygon
    1 Arbor

    SB has Teeg as a staple card. He stops quite a lot of things. In the right meta, Thrun is also appropriate as a bomb in and of himself that also gets the zenith treatment.

    *From a vacuum standpoint, I may even switch the 3:4 split between RWM and KotR. Reliquary is a tank, but I'd also run "only" karakas + wastelands as the business cards. Maze of Ith aiding color requirements is a real concern. This also plays into the "do you like RWM?" theory debate. The above package transforms nicely into NOPRO. I feel if I were to acquire all the missing cards, I'd personally be inclined to go Zenith + Jace main/NOPRO side.


    I have a similar lineup as yours and the Monk is great against aggro. Sometimes, depending on the metagame, Monk will be coming out from the SB instead of Main Deck.

    I'm also trying out if the new card, Loxodon Smiter may have a place for Bant decks because I recently noticed there are a lot of Miracle decks that have the CB-Top lock. I'm gonna try them out.

    By the way, for the one slot, I suggest having the Trygon Predator because stoneblade decks will be forced to deal with it once it comes into play.

    I've tried Maze of Ith and it is awesome against problematic creatures but I have to agree that in some cases having a Maze of Ith in hand or play may create some problems because it can't generate mana. However, I'm still 50/50 on the Maze. I guess its inclusion in the deck will solely depend on the metagame.
    Posted in: Legacy Archives
  • posted a message on Boros
    Quote from Nightmaster


    @Kiddomike

    Very interesting post. Jitte really helps against decks that run bigger creatures. Though I am unsure about Spare from Evil. When I played, I felt like I needed more burn hence my statement about Fireblast. I don't really want to take any out. Plus Magma Jet was actually amazing helping to fix draws.

    In addition, I found I wanted to drop to 3 Figure of Destiny. It's not a very good draw early so I feel 4 is too many. Instead, that could be the fourth Magma Jet along with replacing Spare.


    I agree regarding Spare from Evil. I tested it against Bant Stoneblade recently. I forgot that this deck has more or less 8 humans in it. It all went bad. More burn is really better.

    I ran Magma Jet with my Boros Deck Wins before. It helps fixing your draw. It's an amazing card but I noticed that there are some instances that I really need more damage. So, I'm split between Magma Jet and Incinerate.

    Three Figure of Destinies will work. I ran with it before and it was appearing consistently on the table per game.

    Now, with the new card Vexing Devil, I'm hopeful that this card will help Boros go back to the top 8's.
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on Most underrated Timmy creatures?
    Woolly Thoctar is a great card. It never fails to put a small frown to my opponent's face when they see a 5/4 across the table on 3rd turn. Grin
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Worst thing you did to your cards in a post loss rage?
    I do quite the opposite. If there's a really bad losing streak with my deck, I change sleeves, believing that it'll change their luck somehow. Grin However, I rarely do this. I think I've change sleeves only twice for my deck.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on [Deck]Zoo
    Quote from AsianHammer
    Unfortunately, I play in a combo-heavy metagame, so I need to be able to deal explosive bursts of damage out of the gates and then finish it with burn rather than have steady sources of damage over the course of a game.

    My list is up the page, would you have any suggestions on modifying or improving it in addition to the questions I asked on the post.


    It's true that Steppe Lynx can bring heavy damage on early turns but in order for a Zoo player to do this consistently is to add more lands to the Zoo deck, which is normally unnecessary. Also, drawing Steppe Lynx in the late game is very unfavorable to you but since you stated that combo is rampant in your meta game, fine, there is no late game against those decks.

    If you really insist on playing Steppe Lynx, I suggest that you can play Knight of the Reliquary. But adding a 3cc card just to add value to your Steppe Lynx is not worth it.

    Believe me, I've tried this but I found out that it only 'looks' good in theory. Steppe Lynx is good in the early game, bad in the late game and really depends on your mana base, which requires you more than 20 lands for it to work properly and consistently.

    You may replace them with Loam Lions as others said.

    Sylvan Library is a fine card. It enables an aggro deck to draw cards and fix its draw. It's relevant in the late game when usually the Zoo is playing on-the-draw or you're already "Hellbent". But since you stated that combo is rampant, again whatever happens in the late game, if there's one, is already too late for you. Having A Sylvan Library in the deck depends. It works great against control decks because you can refill your hand in no time.

    I suggest you can remove these from your deck so it'll be a 60-card deck. By doing this, you'll be sure that whenever you draw, you'll either have a threat or a land.

    Saturate your deck with threats. It is one of the strong points of a Zoo deck.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Shuffling with Toploaders
    I understand that some may say that it is overkill to play with top loaders. Maybe it's because of what kind of people your Magic community has. If they handle your cards well, then double sleeve is good.

    It is just unfortunate that I don't have the assurance that the people, particularly strangers, I play with give the same amount of respect to my cards as I give to theirs. So, better safe than sorry. Grin

    Shuffling with top loaders is, of course, much slower compared to shuffling with sleeves only. Also, completely randomizing it is more difficult. So whenever I join local tournaments shuffling takes more time. But again, with practice, you can speed it up a little and be able to shuffle more and randomize your deck better.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Shuffling with Toploaders
    Quote from Bluesummers
    I have found some videos with guys playing in toploders and there is one where a guy riffle shuffles them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0JBxZoJx4g&playnext=1&videos=ngEd0Dhrhn0
    Hope i helped you. Enjoy your card life!


    The video was shot from one of our local stores. Most, if not all, Legacy and Vintage players I see in our local stores play with top loaders.

    Riffle shuffling with top loaders is possible. It only needs practice.

    I play with top loaders ever since I started playing competitive Magic. If you're not used to seeing a 60-card deck in top loaders, it seems overwhelming at first. But you'll get used to it. Grin It really does protect your cards from players, who take out their frustrations on your cards. LOL! I myself bring 2 decks every time I go to play MTG. 120 cards in top loaders in a clutch bag. I think it weighs a kilo.

    Here are some pictures of my pile of cards:


    These are all of my cards that are currently in top loaders. If I'm not mistaken, that's a total of 381 cards not including the eight soldier tokens.


    These are the two decks I bring almost everyday.
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Boros
    I would like to suggest that instead of having a lot of basic lands in your deck, why not put more fetchlands and limit your deck to 20 lands? Since, most of the spells in your deck cost 2 or less (except Mirran Crusader), I think you will not have a problem getting enough mana in your hand. Also, with 20 lands you can now run 4 Fireblasts like Spiral Architect said.

    You may also add more Plateau or Sacred Foundry. This will definitely fix your mana for spell casting. I suggest run 4 to 5 dual lands, splitting the numbers between Plateau and Sacred Foundry. Also, you can limit your basic lands to 4 Mountain and 2 Plains.

    I'm not really convinced with Steppe Lynx. Based on my experience with it running Zoo, it relies on the land drop. I suppose it will definitely work if you have a lot of fetchlands (atleast 12) and 22 or more lands for it to work. Also, drawing Steppe Lynx in the late game is really bad. I would rather saturate my deck with a lot of threats than filling it with more than 20 lands. It will be more consistent. Just my observation. But let's run it anyway. Grin

    If I may suggest this list:



    I may try this out for myself. It looks really fun and I like the idea of having Mirran Crusader.

    I've also included a sideboard suggestion for possible matchups. I relied on the Jötun Grunt for graveyard hate because I know that Reanimator decks and Dredge decks are dominating. I myself, as a Zoo player, do not run graveyard hate on my sideboard. In my opinion, I need to run atleast 6 graveyard hate cards in order to fully address those 2 decks. I would rather play a card that will be playable to other decks than just wasting deck space only for those 2. Jötun Grunt could also weaken Tarmogoyfs and Terravores.

    I haven't tried Mirran Crusader but it looks like fun. I have 1 on the sideboard for decks that have Tarmogoyfs.

    The Path to Exiles and Swords to Plowshares and one Umezawa's Jitte are for decks with large creatures and aggro decks. Let's face it, Boros packs small but fast creatures. It is good to be ready for the mid to late game.

    I've included a total of 3 Umezawa's Jittes in both main deck and sideboard. I have tried the Stoneforge Mystic equipment package, and it runs only 1 to 2 copies of each equipment. I would like to avoid having problems with artifact removal and other copies of Umezawa's Jitte. This deck will really rely on it so I will just run multiple copies of it for consistency and possible copies on the opponent's side of the table.

    The Red Elemental Blasts and Pyroblasts are, of course, for blue decks. If you think that there are more blue control decks than Merfolk decks, you may change these for Vexing Shushers

    Pyrostatic Pillars for the combo decks. I also use them against decks that are aggressive and with similar mana curve like Zoo. It gives them damage when they play spells. Plus, you have 16 burn spells at your disposal. You may race them and burn their face and go RDW style while having your creatures go on defense mode. (This based on my experience running Boros against Zoo in a tourney.)

    Disenchant and Serenity are for Affinity decks and Echantress decks.

    I understand that Magma Jet has the Scry ability which is very good to fix your draw. It's a great card. You may change this for Falter or a more recent card like Spare from Evil, depending on your play style. I haven't tried this yet, but on paper, this might give Boros's creatures to get through big creatures. Maybe a very unconventional card for a deck but this can mess up their math or damage calculation. Playtesting required. Grin

    Now for your question regarding running Wasteland in your deck, for me, it will not be necessary because this is an aggressive deck. I would exchange an opportunity to damage my opponent than delay him of his land drop or a possible mana screw.

    For Plated Geopede it may sound fun to have the Landfall make this guy huge but it will really rely heavily on your lands and fetchlands. As I have said earlier, similar with Steppe Lynx, this is not a good card to draw on the late game. I think the Lynx is enough for a good earlier beater.

    Goodluck on your deck building. I hope this helps you and other players who still believe in Boros decks. Have fun!
    Posted in: Developing (Legacy)
  • posted a message on [Deck]Zoo


    In my opinion, you don't have to run 2 Wasteland in a Zoo deck because the goal is to beat your opponent as soon as possible. Not only wasteland will cost you a land but will also cause mana screw. I suggest that you can focus on Zoo's strength which is speed and power of your threats rather than trying to have some control cards here and there.

    My tip:
    -2 Wasteland
    +1 Taiga
    +1 Plateau

    (I have the exact mana base and it works.)

    Sylvan Library is a great card and I have used it quite some time. But if you use this as a solution to mana screw I suggest that you can now exchange the Libraries for 1-drop creatures to make sure that you have a one drop on your opening hand, and being able to cast multiple threats a turn. Grin

    +2 Loam Lions for me. (Goblin Guide maybe an option but I would rather have 4 of them)

    I currently run the 'equipment pack' of Stoneforge Mystic-Jitte-Sword of Body and Mind. I'm not really sure of having 3 Mystics in the deck. Also I have not yet tried the Stoneforge Mystic - Batterskull synergy in Zoo (I run them in my U/W Landstill)

    Problem with Batterskull is when Stoneforge Mystic dies or countered, it'll be stuck on your hand. Based on my experience running them on UW deck, there are times that I am unable to cast Batterskull because they managed to disable my Stoneforge Mystic. I am running a counterspell deck and this still happens sometimes. I see that running multiple copies of Stoneforge Mystic may answer that problem, then again, I would rather play more creatures that will bring more pressure to your opponent.

    I suggest that you can stick to equipments that would not rely too much on Stoneforge Mystic. So we can put them into play and attach it to creatures with or without Stoneforge's Mystics help.

    To summarize:
    -2 Wasteland, +1 Plateau, +1 Taiga
    -2 Sylvan Library, +2 Loam Lion OR +2 Goblin Guide
    -2 Stoneforge Mystic, +2 Loam Lion OR +2 Goblin Guide
    -1 Batterskull, +1 Qasali Pridemage OR +1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    I hope this helps.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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