Doesn't anybody remember Rebuff the Wicked? That card saw no play. Granted, the kicker makes this much better, so maybe I'll be proven wrong.
And yes, if you use this to counter a removal spell it is great. But if you swing with your Bloodbraid Elf into their Baneslayer Angel, then cast this when they block, they can still 2 for 1 you with a PtE.
Actually, Rebuff the Wicked did see play in Kithkin, before it hit it's stride.
Not to mention...why would you swing into a Baneslayer without this? Your opponent would have to be pretty thick not to expect it...
If this is true and it was just a mistake that fell through the cracks why not post an errata on the card stating that actualy only costs B1?
Because they don't do that?
It would set a terrible precident, not only for making bad cards good but for good cards bad. Instead of Skullclamp drawing cards, maybe it would be changed to milling cards. Would you want to see all the cards you like playing with degenerate or change because someone complained about them?
Not to mention, they do like cards to actually do what they say they do. Would you like to carry around a big book of different card rulings with you, everywhere you go? Have to explain to your opponent every time "Look, I know it says 2B, but they changed it to 1B, I swear!"
I really don't get what the big deal about this card is. It's not even the worst Grey Ogre they've ever printed, much less the worst card in the set...
No it's really conditional, hierarch is only better if you are only swining with a single beater, ussualy if you can swing away willy nilly with one of your creatures every turn you are doing pretty good.
When you are mounting for an alpha strike/swarm them, looking for a creature to do combat tricks with, looking for something that gives you more on defense than a chump blocker or something to fill an empty board Cobra is better.
because games are never decided by 6, 4, 2 or even 1 life?
I really don't know if cobra is better or worse than the other mana producers the point of my post was that they can do things that other mana producers can't, namely swing decently and block decently and still be able to produce mana, while with other mana producers it's an either or.
First off, how often do people get a real alpha strike on turn 7 in constructed? Seriously. On average, you have one or two creatures and so do they, at which point a boost in power to your best guy is much better than a 2/1, small er than anything they've got.
Games are decided by all sorts of things. My point was, would you play with a 2/1 with no combat abilities to decide things for you? Yes, the Cobra can produce mana and swing...that very nice. Good snake. It can also sit there while you are mana screwed and hiss for all it's worth at an opponent who doesn't care. Every other mana accelerator in the game helps fight mana screw, while the Cobra works against it, giving only temporary boosts and not helping without at all without land.
Turn 2, Play Lotus Cobra, Play fetch land, tap fetch find another land, play Khalni Heart Expedition
Turn 3, Play a land, tap 2 more, play Harrow, Sac a tapped land, 2 lands come into play, trigger khalni heart expedition. Search for 2 more lands, tap your lands and birds for violent ultimatum.
You have no lands in play.
so no... Lotus Cobra isn't broken at all. And this is just going mono-green with ultimatums in the deck, I could've went with the ultimatum that isn't played, (Clarion) searched for 4 lands and a lotus cobra, put 8 mana of any color in my pool, and then played warp world on turn 3, with at least 10 permanents in play with your 3. or any 8 mana anything, since it's 8 mana of any color.
Sure lotus cobra isn't broken...
(Disclaimer: This was sarcasm, lotus cobra is about as broken as an 80 year old man attempting to fight jackie chan in a kung fu expedition)
Ted
Yes, those are nice first turns. Now, what do you do the other 90% of the time when you have no snake or birds and are stuck with three lands and four 7 mana spells in hand?
Because they needed a card type to attach creature types to. You can't make an Enchantment - Goblin, because enchantments can't have creature types, it's just part of the rules. Tribal allowed WotC to bend the rules a little bit for Lorwyn block.
The problem I have with it is: you can have an enchantment, an instant, or an artifact. These things are things, they are nouns. Now, show me a Tribal. Come on, do it.
It makes just as little sense, true, to have an Enchantment - Goblin, but why did they have to make it a card type instead of a sub or supertype? Tribal Enchantment - Goblin works just as well if Tribal is just a description, rather than a thing.
You maybe against or for Cancel, but as we know negatecounters only non creature as a 1U and Essence Scatter counters only creatures as a 1U also, it would only seem that the correct choice for a counter all spells would be 3 mana, but i do agree on the point that if it was 3 mana it should of been 2U instead of 1UU. Also i'm aware of how control just got weak over just one block after 5cc loses a bunch of good cards i.e. cryptic command. Like i said its only natural to have a counter all spells for 3 mana.
The problem is not that's three mana, or the combination of said mana. Lost of three mana counterspells have been good, even great. The problem is, you get nothing else with it. As far back as Mirage or as recent as Lorwyn, three mana got you a counter with an effect, and usually a good one. Cancel just...doesn't.
you may rant about elite vanguard if it was a 2 drop but we all know it would of never been a 2 drop because its a vanilla card. Control is going to have to use Cancel whether you like it or not, like your quote says its about how you use your control cards. i do understand your thoughts about double negative but i for sure am not going to be running red, i don't want to give away my deck just yet, but i know it will surprise my local fnm. we don't have vivids so its way to hard to support 4,5 colors
Who's ranting? He posted one sentence, with a fairly good point.
As for having to use Cancel, I doubt it. Historically, when there were no good counters in the format, people just didn't play permission, rather than play bad cards.
You play Lotus Cobra over other ramp cards because it's better, just like you play eternal witness over recollect in formats where they are both legal, I mean REALLY!
Your arguments against Lotus Cobra being good are all flawed. There has always been creature kill but that didn't make Dark Confidant, Noble Hierarch, etc. any less awesome did it?
I don't think you really looked at my arguments, have you? I don't remember saying that Cobra wasn't good because removal kills it. I said it wasn't broken because it is NOT. And the only evidence people have to the contray is: Turn 2 Cobra, Turn 3 Win, in a hundred different combinations, each as unlikely as the next.
Khalni Heart Expedition is horrid. Ramp won't use it because they have much better things that, you know, aren't dead draws after turn 2. No one else will use it, either.
Quest for Pure Flame is kind of a toss-up. Historically, damage-doubling effects, especially those known about in advance, aren't that good. However, Seal of Fire was good (and this is close enough in mana terms). Wait and see on that one, but I wouldn't bet money.
Ior Ruin Expedition is, as most have said, utter crap.
And I would add Bloodchief Ascension to the playables list. It's easy to trigger and painful afterwards...always a good combination.
I cannot stand this direction they are going in to be honest.
Time Spiral had 420+ cards in it. It had 13 different keywords (both old and new) and tons of other mechanics/cycles.
Zendikar has 249 cards in it. It has 3 different keywords and a handful of mechanics/cycles. It's loaded with vanilla trash, functional and actual reprints, and cards that are WORSE than already bad cards (Healing Salve, Scathe Zombies).
I have nothing against smaller sets, but if you are going to lower the amount of cards in a set then you better narrow the crap that has nothing to do with the set. This set sadly has more vanilla to it than M10 did, which was an actual core set.
You do realize that that was Time Spiral's 'thing,' right? Time Spiral had a few new mechanics and a slew of reprinted and rethought ones, becase it was the nostalgia set. Also, it had it's own fair share of vanilla creatures and spells, a higher percentage then Zendikar, too. (I don't really see what you have against vanilla, for that matter)
Yeah, still I find it's quite a cheap policy to say "well, here is a lot of good card, accept this lazy trash along."
Even as far back as Ice Age there were reprints, while Legends had boatloads of functional reprints of terrible cards. Who needs two Scathe Zombie clones in the same set?
But if you can not name a better hard counter that will be legal in standard Cancel good, it is only bad if there is something better, and there is not
No...there are plenty of bad cards without there being anything better. If Lava Axe was the only burn spell legal, would you call it good?
By the way, why do people think Summoner's Bane is bad? It's Mystic Snake. More restrictive, yes, but also less mana intensive.
Draw-Go is boring. We don't want Draw-Go (which requires at least 5 good counterspells of varying costs), we want ONE playable counter. Is that too much to ask?
Cancel is still a rather playable counterspell, whether people choose to play it or not. I've even seen it show up in tournament winning decklists from time to time.
Cancel is a horrible spell, and a slap in the face of anyone with a decent memory.
The big reason cancel was not played is because of Cryptic Command
If you want cheaper you use either Negate or Essence Scatter.
When there are not better counterspells, Cancel does not look that bad, especially since the metagame for rotation does not exhist yet.
No, Cancel was not played because it is a bad card. Even when it was first introduced, Cancel was kicked out for Rune Snag in the 'hard counter' slot. You know why? Because, for three mana, you should get more from a counter. Even as far back as Mirage, 3 mana has given you something extra tacked on, so a generic spell for that price, which was too slow even 5 years ago...no: Cancel will always look bad.
If anything, the cobra changes the way players build standard decks, and play standard matches. That turn 2 cobra needs to be answered before the opponent can untap with it in play. Lightningbolt, Path, and Doomblade are going to be 4 of in most decks, and i wouldn't be surprised to see 7-8 turn 2 ways to deal with this problematic creature. There will also be a new question to ask when deciding to mulligan: can i deal with a turn 2 cobra?
I don't see it changing the way people play any more than any other ramp effect. Do you keep a two-land-Rampant-Growth hand?
And, as others have said, the cobra doesn't need to be answered, either, so long as you have something that will affect the bigger guys, too.
But...the answer to all those questions are simple. Of course you can win without a turn 2 Cobra. And if they removed it, you traded a card for a card (whee), just like with any other creature you were likely to play turn 2.
Theoretically win? Of course. Actually win? that requires looking at your situation. Just keep in mind that, if you play cobra, you'll face this situation a lot.
Play your other mana ramp spells. You know, just like in every other mana ramp green deck that existed before Lotus Cobra came around.
Then why play with cobra? It's not much better than any other ramp spell, and a whole lot more vulnerable. If you're running redundant ramp effects, on the odd chance your cobra's not available...
Conditionally beating for one is not better than beating for two, in most situations it will be better to top deck a 2/1 than an hierarch. Also Cobra already has something that hierach can't do, produce red and black mana.
Also
Noble hierach can again only do so conditionally.
If you look at the other poster points it is that the Cobra can be a beater when you need it to with no special conditions or loss of mana, and in many cases beats better.
Oh and here's another thing it can do, produce mana yet still serve as a deterrent to your opponent attacking you/chump block.
Hierarch is much better late game than cobra. While it would only swing for one, your actual beaters (you know, the ones you want to win with) get bigger. Your Baneslayer wins out because she's a 6/6? why not?
As far as a 2/1 being a beater...no. If you win on the strength of an ability-less 2 power creature, your opponent wasn't going to win, anyways.
Actually, Rebuff the Wicked did see play in Kithkin, before it hit it's stride.
Not to mention...why would you swing into a Baneslayer without this? Your opponent would have to be pretty thick not to expect it...
Because they don't do that?
It would set a terrible precident, not only for making bad cards good but for good cards bad. Instead of Skullclamp drawing cards, maybe it would be changed to milling cards. Would you want to see all the cards you like playing with degenerate or change because someone complained about them?
Not to mention, they do like cards to actually do what they say they do. Would you like to carry around a big book of different card rulings with you, everywhere you go? Have to explain to your opponent every time "Look, I know it says 2B, but they changed it to 1B, I swear!"
I really don't get what the big deal about this card is. It's not even the worst Grey Ogre they've ever printed, much less the worst card in the set...
Like the use of Grim Discovery, though. Very inventive.
First off, how often do people get a real alpha strike on turn 7 in constructed? Seriously. On average, you have one or two creatures and so do they, at which point a boost in power to your best guy is much better than a 2/1, small er than anything they've got.
Games are decided by all sorts of things. My point was, would you play with a 2/1 with no combat abilities to decide things for you? Yes, the Cobra can produce mana and swing...that very nice. Good snake. It can also sit there while you are mana screwed and hiss for all it's worth at an opponent who doesn't care. Every other mana accelerator in the game helps fight mana screw, while the Cobra works against it, giving only temporary boosts and not helping without at all without land.
Yes, those are nice first turns. Now, what do you do the other 90% of the time when you have no snake or birds and are stuck with three lands and four 7 mana spells in hand?
The problem I have with it is: you can have an enchantment, an instant, or an artifact. These things are things, they are nouns. Now, show me a Tribal. Come on, do it.
It makes just as little sense, true, to have an Enchantment - Goblin, but why did they have to make it a card type instead of a sub or supertype? Tribal Enchantment - Goblin works just as well if Tribal is just a description, rather than a thing.
The problem is not that's three mana, or the combination of said mana. Lost of three mana counterspells have been good, even great. The problem is, you get nothing else with it. As far back as Mirage or as recent as Lorwyn, three mana got you a counter with an effect, and usually a good one. Cancel just...doesn't.
It is not the new Counterspell. It would have to be good, first.
Who's ranting? He posted one sentence, with a fairly good point.
As for having to use Cancel, I doubt it. Historically, when there were no good counters in the format, people just didn't play permission, rather than play bad cards.
I don't think you really looked at my arguments, have you? I don't remember saying that Cobra wasn't good because removal kills it. I said it wasn't broken because it is NOT. And the only evidence people have to the contray is: Turn 2 Cobra, Turn 3 Win, in a hundred different combinations, each as unlikely as the next.
Quest for Pure Flame is kind of a toss-up. Historically, damage-doubling effects, especially those known about in advance, aren't that good. However, Seal of Fire was good (and this is close enough in mana terms). Wait and see on that one, but I wouldn't bet money.
Ior Ruin Expedition is, as most have said, utter crap.
And I would add Bloodchief Ascension to the playables list. It's easy to trigger and painful afterwards...always a good combination.
It was cool and all, but why was Tribal a card type instead of a subtype?
You do realize that that was Time Spiral's 'thing,' right? Time Spiral had a few new mechanics and a slew of reprinted and rethought ones, becase it was the nostalgia set. Also, it had it's own fair share of vanilla creatures and spells, a higher percentage then Zendikar, too. (I don't really see what you have against vanilla, for that matter)
Even as far back as Ice Age there were reprints, while Legends had boatloads of functional reprints of terrible cards. Who needs two Scathe Zombie clones in the same set?
No...there are plenty of bad cards without there being anything better. If Lava Axe was the only burn spell legal, would you call it good?
Nope...Cancel still looks bad. Probably because it is.
Draw-Go is boring. We don't want Draw-Go (which requires at least 5 good counterspells of varying costs), we want ONE playable counter. Is that too much to ask?
Not very likely...
Cancel is a horrible spell, and a slap in the face of anyone with a decent memory.
Have you ever played this game before? Draw-Go was slightly successful Once, while big, dumb creatures have been around for 16 years.
No, Cancel was not played because it is a bad card. Even when it was first introduced, Cancel was kicked out for Rune Snag in the 'hard counter' slot. You know why? Because, for three mana, you should get more from a counter. Even as far back as Mirage, 3 mana has given you something extra tacked on, so a generic spell for that price, which was too slow even 5 years ago...no: Cancel will always look bad.
I don't see it changing the way people play any more than any other ramp effect. Do you keep a two-land-Rampant-Growth hand?
And, as others have said, the cobra doesn't need to be answered, either, so long as you have something that will affect the bigger guys, too.
Theoretically win? Of course. Actually win? that requires looking at your situation. Just keep in mind that, if you play cobra, you'll face this situation a lot.
Then why play with cobra? It's not much better than any other ramp spell, and a whole lot more vulnerable. If you're running redundant ramp effects, on the odd chance your cobra's not available...
Hierarch is much better late game than cobra. While it would only swing for one, your actual beaters (you know, the ones you want to win with) get bigger. Your Baneslayer wins out because she's a 6/6? why not?
As far as a 2/1 being a beater...no. If you win on the strength of an ability-less 2 power creature, your opponent wasn't going to win, anyways.