+ / / - Notion Theif + wheel effect - For 4 mana EOT then 3 mana on your main phase (example: Time Twister/Wheel of Fortune) everyone will discard their hand and you will draw an insane amount of cards.
Possessed Portal + Life from the Loam - Nobody will draw cards and will sacrifice a permanent or discard a card at EOT of each player's turn. Dredge is a replacement effect. You will out last eveyone else in a 4 player game until they have no permanents and no cards.
- Massacre Wurm , Flash, Natural Affinity - for a CC of 5 mana at instant speed, all opponents will lose all their lands and take 2 damage for each land killed so long as their lands aren't pumped by an anthem effect.
:symu::symb::symg: Tooth and Nail , Palinchron , Phantasmal Image , Runescarred Deamon - T&N entwined. Get Palinchron and Runescarred. Search Phantasmal. If you have 7 land in play you can get infinte mana with phantasmal image copying palinchron. Then copy runescarredd for the kill everyone combo piece.
Has anyone taken a look at TCG mid prices for this set minus the ultra rare expeditions?
Absolutely abysmal. This set has Gideon and the dual lands, and that's about it. The dual lands will likely be played as 1-2 ofs in Modern. This set is so bad. Like, really bad. I regret my purchase.
You do know that this set is going to be opened, and opened a lot, because they added a lottery? And that because it's opened so much, the median value of packs is going to be very low? This isn't because of the power level of the set, it's because the demand for this set is tied up in 25 specific, premium, one-per-case (or so) cards, and all the other product opened is worthless. Wizards manages to sell packs, sure, but they skewed the demand curve so badly that they basically turned everything not an expedition into bulk.
So you're saying the prices are going to be even lower, and by alot if we considered what happened with Khans?
Siege Rhino is about $3 now, low in price due to market saturation because everyone wanted the fetches. The fetches are now starting to climb in value.
But just look at the price history of individual cards in Khans when it was first released. Most of the cards have lost around %60 of their value since the release of Khans.
Besides using 1-2 of the new duals, and possibly radiant flames or a manland, what about this set screams Modern/Legacy playable? Its painfully obvious how under powered this set is. And its even more of a let down because its nothing like the old Zendikar. Expectations not met with this one. As a consumer, I think this product sucks.
Has anyone taken a look at TCG mid prices for this set minus the ultra rare expeditions?
Absolutely abysmal. This set has Gideon and the dual lands, and that's about it. The dual lands will likely be played as 1-2 ofs in Modern. This set is so bad. Like, really bad. I regret my purchase.
The only problem with Stoneforge is it's activated ability that lets it cheat equipment in play. Search ability and body alone are just fine. Putting Batterskull whcih otherwise costs 5 mana into play just for three mana is too much and the reason why Stoneforge Shouldn't be legal in Modern.
This.
/discussion
Then yes, you are effectively saying
1W
1W TAP: Put an equipment card onto the battlefield
0/1
Is too broken for modern.
I don't know why you are trying to dance around like you haven't claimed this. You have.
The tutor+cheat+body as a whole make the card broken, but you keep iterating its just the cheat.
And then when you are called out on it, won't own up to it. Why is it so hard for you to be honest about your assertion?
Stoneforge draws you a card on casting and the fact that putting the equipment into play is uncounterable and batterskull is already hard to remove by control is significant.
Doesnt matter, already got value out of SFM in the form of a tutor. This is why SFM is so powerful Its power is 2 fold. Having legs is just an added bonus if you can get her to stick.
Stoneforge being a two-mana tutor, isn't the point. There is already a one-mana tutor that does exactly the same thing, and sees almost zero competitive play. The "+1 card" argument is bad, because most of the time, you can't afford to actually play the equipment. This isn't Legacy, and Jitte is banned. Modern should not be afraid of Swords, Godsend, or Elbrus.
No one cares that Stoneforge has legs, either. It swings for one, and doesn't have any evasion.
Stoneforge is only powerful for the second part of Sheepz's statement. You get to cheat the mana cost of the equipment, and it's essentially uncounterable. Stoneforge shouldn't be legal in Modern, but the bad logic in this thread really needs to stop.
No, what makes SFM so powerful is 1) it tutors when played. A tutor for 2 mana is very powerful. 2) SFM can cheat out equipment and avoid counter magic and usually for less mana then it would cost to play said equipment. and 3) SFM has legs. Its the whole package that makes SFM so powerful. You can not focus on just one of the abilities and say she is a fair card and forget about the other 2 things she brings to the table.
Snapcaster mage doesnt come close to the power of SFM.
Boce, you didn't even read what I wrote.
Regarding your list, no one cares about (1). The proof is that Steelshaper's Gift exists, and no one uses it. No one cares about (3), because SFM swings for one point of damage, on the ground, and with no evasion. (2) is what makes SFM powerful. Plain and simple.
I never suggested that Stoneforge is a fair card. I just pointed out that the "two-mana tutor" argument is a bad one. We have a one-mana tutor that already doesn't see play.
Stoneforge Mystic is more powerful than Snapcaster Mage, and it should stay on the banned list.
Then you are effectively saying
1W
1W TAP: Put an equipment card onto the battlefield
0/1
Is too broken for modern, since the second ability is all that matters. Not that it has legs, not that it tutors. Correct?
Stoneforge draws you a card on casting and the fact that putting the equipment into play is uncounterable and batterskull is already hard to remove by control is significant.
Doesnt matter, already got value out of SFM in the form of a tutor. This is why SFM is so powerful Its power is 2 fold. Having legs is just an added bonus if you can get her to stick.
Stoneforge being a two-mana tutor, isn't the point. There is already a one-mana tutor that does exactly the same thing, and sees almost zero competitive play. The "+1 card" argument is bad, because most of the time, you can't afford to actually play the equipment. This isn't Legacy, and Jitte is banned. Modern should not be afraid of Swords, Godsend, or Elbrus.
No one cares that Stoneforge has legs, either. It swings for one, and doesn't have any evasion.
Stoneforge is only powerful for the second part of Sheepz's statement. You get to cheat the mana cost of the equipment, and it's essentially uncounterable. Stoneforge shouldn't be legal in Modern, but the bad logic in this thread really needs to stop.
Why is it okay to "cheat" in infinity copies of 1/4 creature that win on the spot less an ensnaring bridge? Because the combo is disrupted by spot removal? Because it requires 2 pieces which aren't tutored for?
The second part of Stoneforge is stopped by spot removal as well before the player untaps. And if the equipment is cheated, it doesn't mean the game has been won on the spot. K-command answers both stoneforge and the equipment. Perhaps the fact that it also tutors has more weight than you give credit for, or your logic isn't as superior as your trying to make it out to be.
Yes, a turn 3 Batterskul is to powerful for an aggro deck to handle. For a turn 3 batterskull you need a turn 2 SFM. There are no free counters in the format, any spot removal can deal with an 1/2, unless your deck can't interact with a simple creature.
An early SFM will rarely stick, only some linear and non interactive decks will suffer from it.
It would be interesting to see how the averages pan out over multiple games. Sure, SFM is likely to get removed. But they still have the Batterskull in hand. And K-command is a card now. So it answers both SFM and the BS. If the BS goes unanswered, then sure, likely the aggro deck just scoops. Would be nice to see how it all pans out, otherwise its just speculation. The card pool has increased.
How does Forbid stack up against RDW, Abzan, Grixis, and Tron?
Serious question. Can the -2 to cards in hand keep up with these decks considering what else would be run in a deck with forbid with the modern cardpool?
It is not that hard of a concept: you don't use the buyback if you think it is not worth it.
Actually it's a hard enough concept for you to specify an event where you would use the -2 to cards in hand.
How does Forbid stack up against RDW, Abzan, Grixis, and Tron?
Serious question. Can the -2 to cards in hand keep up with these decks considering what else would be run in a deck with forbid with the modern cardpool?
Taken from Blogatog, i feel it is relevant with the topic.
extremeconsiderationthemovie asked: I feel like what the creatuerless players (including me) are really saying is it feels like Magic is it feels like creatures are quite a bit more powerful than other spells at the moment and want the pendulum to swing back twards powerful spells or at least aggressively costed spells like for example, Doom blades and Last Gasp costing 2 instead of 4 and 6
Here’s what’s going on. Let’s assume there was no Reserved List and we could just reprint anything we wanted from Alpha. There are literally zero creatures that couldn’t be reprinted for power level reasons. Yes, some for complexity or color pie reasons but none for power level.
Now let’s look at noncreature spells. There are tons and tons that couldn’t be reprinted. So when you look at history, creatures keep going up and up and noncreature spells keep going down and down. And it creates this illusion that creatures are so strong and noncreature spells are so weak.
But it’s only contextual as tied to the gross mismatch of early Magic. Noncreature spells are doing just fine. As was pointed out in the comments, a noncreature deck won a Pro tour not too long ago.
I believe the disconnect is this. I’m promising we’ll make noncreature spells good enough to play in constructed. I’m not promising that we’ll return them to a previous power level which in many cases was simply stronger than they needed to be to be playable.
In other words “stop making them weaker” is not the same request as “make them playable”. We’ll honor the latter request but not necessarily the former.
Am I the only one annoyed by the tone and style of this response? I am not referring to the argument itself, which has some valid points.
Depending on the card pool, Black Braids could be considered to powerful to reprint. Same with Protean Hulk.
Great against Bob, snapcaster, and mana dorks. Good reach as well.
Combo Nerfer
Creature - Wizard Rogue (R)
Kicker: or Pay 3 life
When ~ enters the battlefield search target players library
for a card and exile it. If you paid the kicker cost,
target player also reveals their hand. You may choose a card and exile it.
The problem with some of the cards from BFZ is that they are infuriatingly bad. The cards that only do something if the opponent has cards in exile. Really bad mechanic from what I'm seeing.
:symu::symb::symg: Tooth and Nail , Palinchron , Phantasmal Image , Runescarred Deamon - T&N entwined. Get Palinchron and Runescarred. Search Phantasmal. If you have 7 land in play you can get infinte mana with phantasmal image copying palinchron. Then copy runescarredd for the kill everyone combo piece.
So you're saying the prices are going to be even lower, and by alot if we considered what happened with Khans?
Siege Rhino is about $3 now, low in price due to market saturation because everyone wanted the fetches. The fetches are now starting to climb in value.
But just look at the price history of individual cards in Khans when it was first released. Most of the cards have lost around %60 of their value since the release of Khans.
Besides using 1-2 of the new duals, and possibly radiant flames or a manland, what about this set screams Modern/Legacy playable? Its painfully obvious how under powered this set is. And its even more of a let down because its nothing like the old Zendikar. Expectations not met with this one. As a consumer, I think this product sucks.
Absolutely abysmal. This set has Gideon and the dual lands, and that's about it. The dual lands will likely be played as 1-2 ofs in Modern. This set is so bad. Like, really bad. I regret my purchase.
Then yes, you are effectively saying
1W
1W TAP: Put an equipment card onto the battlefield
0/1
Is too broken for modern.
I don't know why you are trying to dance around like you haven't claimed this. You have.
The tutor+cheat+body as a whole make the card broken, but you keep iterating its just the cheat.
And then when you are called out on it, won't own up to it. Why is it so hard for you to be honest about your assertion?
Then you are effectively saying
1W
1W TAP: Put an equipment card onto the battlefield
0/1
Is too broken for modern, since the second ability is all that matters. Not that it has legs, not that it tutors. Correct?
Why is it okay to "cheat" in infinity copies of 1/4 creature that win on the spot less an ensnaring bridge? Because the combo is disrupted by spot removal? Because it requires 2 pieces which aren't tutored for?
The second part of Stoneforge is stopped by spot removal as well before the player untaps. And if the equipment is cheated, it doesn't mean the game has been won on the spot. K-command answers both stoneforge and the equipment. Perhaps the fact that it also tutors has more weight than you give credit for, or your logic isn't as superior as your trying to make it out to be.
It would be interesting to see how the averages pan out over multiple games. Sure, SFM is likely to get removed. But they still have the Batterskull in hand. And K-command is a card now. So it answers both SFM and the BS. If the BS goes unanswered, then sure, likely the aggro deck just scoops. Would be nice to see how it all pans out, otherwise its just speculation. The card pool has increased.
Actually it's a hard enough concept for you to specify an event where you would use the -2 to cards in hand.
Serious question. Can the -2 to cards in hand keep up with these decks considering what else would be run in a deck with forbid with the modern cardpool?
Depending on the card pool, Black Braids could be considered to powerful to reprint. Same with Protean Hulk.
Combo Nerfer
Creature - Wizard Rogue (R)
Kicker:
When ~ enters the battlefield search target players library
for a card and exile it. If you paid the kicker cost,
target player also reveals their hand. You may choose a card and exile it.
2/1
hahahah