That's when the Needle's come out of the board full force. Nan and I had less trouble with the match-up when we ran our Copy Enchantments, although it is certainly not hard to either keep him down with an Icy or Leash him-- or Icy him until you can find a Leash
Copy Enchantment helped because a turn 3/4 KotNT would always be trouble, and Leash doesnt help there, so you'd either have to race to Wildfire it or Copy the Leash and take it, which was ultimately how we found success in the pre-board game.
But the Japanese version of the deck (with card draw and Mana Leaks MD) didn't like to see that deck. Not one bit.
You said because you've won PTQ's and such and such that your point should be taken as a greater piece of information. That's elitist, you posted faster than i could ignore you very good!
And i blew up when you said i accused you of having false results. 3 different times ive tested pre-board Fetters and sb Wrath and gotten 3-2 in EDs favor, with BB18, the same person Cyan has been testing with recently.
The only reason i'm flipping wig off the richter scale is because i'm posting answers in the form of testing results, and you both come up with more and more excuses about how the the player of the deck is "inadequate". The thing that's inadequate is how you don't post results, and then when someone else does, you shoot them down.
And i'm tired of posting test results only to get ignored because you both feel like you're better than everyone else, which Gpile just openly admitted in an MSN convo.
So, i'm going to keep posting my accurate results, using the same partners Cyan has claimed to use the past few nights, very viable t2 players, and these ones are overly smug *******s who'd make an excuse for ****ing their own mother if it suited them.
But they've caused the worst side of me to come out. I don't waste my time with such worthless t2 players/human beings. They're both blocked. I'll still be coming with those heated test results. I mean, i was testing and perfecting the deck along time before it hit Tier 1, so i must've done SOMETHING right along the way.
Hello again. Firstly, mind if i post that Q&A from Manatap over here? Secondly, it's my 999th post, so i thought in honor of my 1000th post coming, you could tell me when Dissension Novel is coming out, considering they moved the set up a month to consider Coldsnap when it came out.
And secondly- i'd like to ask why we don't get to hear Feather explain to Pivlic where she's been all book!?
999 bottles of beer on the wall, 999 posts of beer.
Will- I have been discussing it in that thread, and guess what? The testing my friend was what proved my point, something you're claiming these Tier'ings are based on. You're contradicting yourself. Either Wrath doesn't belong in that list or these Tiers are null and void because they're not founded.
And please be a little more partial, when everyone says you should tear those Tiers down because it's too early and they're off, you should. I know who's whispering in your ear, for once the puppeteer is the high strung one.
Edit- Wow, and you definately put this thread in your sig. You're the man dude, you posted something equivelent to the bible!
Wow, that list is horrifying. You renamed Rock because it got Mortify and Godless Shrine to Triad? Wtf is Triad?
And even after i did the testing, you're going with Cyan's opinion that you need Wrath maindeck over Fetters. And Mana Leak? 3 Wildfires only?
And against an aggro environment, you want to play Tidings O_O!?
This list is an utter travesty, and any testing i contributed was terribly abused and mis-treated.
Results shows my build of ED, which is far far from the very weak build Will's posted here, beats Zoo 6-4 in the pre-board and 6-4 in the post-board. It's still a work in progress as to making the aggro match-up better, but that decklist if you want to play ED is a complete and utter farse.
Edit- And i agree with Lesurgo, CMU should be moved down to Tier 2. I dont see how adding 6 cards (4x Mortify and 2 Godless Shrine) immediately makes non-existant Rock to Tier 1 when ED falls from Tier 1 to Tier 2. That's utterly ridiculous.
Excuse me Gpile? I'm defacing? No. You're wrong on that account. I simply stated Wrath of God wasn't necessary maindeck to win game 1 against Zoo or other forms of aggro. Cyan said you most definately did.
His argument was
A) I test against bad builds and incompetent people not familiar with the deck.
B) I lie when I post test results so they're worthless.
C) I clearly don't have his skill level, so I should defer to him as God.
Actually 3-2 isn't 50-50. That would be 2-2. And after 2 sets of 5 games (you don't do them in 6's Cyan, not to just cover your incorrectness) the record is 6-4. That's not 50-50, that favorable to ED.
I never said I had the match figured out, nor that I was better than Cyan, I only said I disagreed and proved my thoughts had foundation- you can go 6-4 without Wrath maindeck on the pre-board.
Clearly Cyan is a friend of yours, but regardless of how much you 2 back each other, he made statements as fact that weren't fact. He acts as if I'm some noob and he's Richard Garfield himself, and I don't have to take it. That's why I'm gloating-- I brought the fight to my area of expertise (testing) and proved my point. Regardless of if he plays 1000 more games, the deck can go without Wrath mainboarded.
And I'm not going to gloat anymore about it unless he brings up his 'facts' again, to which I've already proven wrong and itd be a waste of time bothering with further so-called facts, because he's proved he only intends to discredit my testing and that of others (including the now banned IBTG). Futhermore, his argument is followed by a "because I said so." No foundation. This is competitive, go back to decks for critique if all you intend to do is critique.
Now, if you're done being a hypocrite, I'd like to get back to the topic (but I will not let myself be harassed, if Lesurgo and Onikani won't stop them, then I will.)
What is everyone thinking about Ghostly Prison as a sideboard option? Its good vs. Glare and Zoo, and other forms of aggro, but the speedier the more painful.
Also, I've gotten a lot of negative feedback to Ivory Mask. I through it in there for Urza and Netsuke, but I suppose no Netsuke will not be competitive, so Prison could fill that 4x spot?
I will step in. Everyone needs to get this thread on track. I don't want to see any argueing over who is better, and why you think so. Agreably this is a game of statistics, so if everyone can back up what they say and do it constructively, there won't be any problems...
Right? -Oni
See, funny thing is you're only supposed to do 5 pre-board, and Will told me how quick you were to ask for 5 more when you were down 3-2.
So you're excuse now is that you can't be a competent Zoo builder/player, after all this talk of the utter dominance of it, and just play you and you'll shut everyones mouth. Well sry you need to shut yours. You went 3-2 with your "better zoo build" and I went 3-2, making it 6-4 pre-board (you don't do pre-board in 6's dude, you'd know that if you posted more results) 6-4 post board (you don't do post boards in 1 of's and then walk away when you win one, like you did with Will last night).
Here's a quote from Jadakiss for all of you reading the last few pages--i think you know what I'm referring to.
This man talk a real big game, he's just an actor. Matter fact- pretty sure dude aint a factor. I keep testing you, it's getting alarmin, ya commentary? 100% pure garbage
D-block son. Anybody on this thread can say what they want, but please don't bs like some people insist on doing. Don't do it to yourself. If you make a claim and can't back it up, don't make it.
This is competitive, and you look like a chump doing it.
Storm Herd isn't a viable win condition in this deck. It belongs in a deck with lifegain or some form of it. I was playing it in Urza, but Blaze is just better.
I have been toying around with a BW Sins of the Past deck though, they really are shocked to see Herd hit the grave via Peace of Mind at the eot, and go into a turn 5 Sins of the Past. Call it good game if they don't have a wrath or clasm, and even then I've got Leyline White and Anthem to boost them.
Its more or less casual.
And a friend of mine apparently tested vs. Cyan and he got another 3-2 ED favored in the pre-board.
Note- he ran my build, which is not running Wrath maindeck. 3-2 and 3-2= 6-4 pre-board so far for my Ed build vs. Zoo.
And after siding in I already got 6-4 in favor of ED again.
I had an idea to make the aggro matchup better.
Ghostly Prison?
That could seriously dampen the plans of the Zoo player, since a turn 3 prison dampens there plans heavily, especially with jitte tempo. It also makes it tough for them to get 3 creatures online and attacking, and with 2 Prisons (or 1 with a copy enchantment), you really press them.
Let it be noted that 3-2 the first preboard was against a Zoo deck with moldervine cloak instead of jitte and no Maher (Dark Confidant)- which the 2nd 3-2 preboard featured.
Yet overall, 6-4 preboard vs Zoo and 6-4 postboard....without Wrath maindeck.
I posted a similar topic in Speak Your Mind forum, but I thought I'd post here as well. I believe after all of the work that Rancored_Elf has put into his rumors for mutiple websites, the least we can do is support him. I created a webpage called SaveTheElf.org, and it has information about his situation, as well as a petition to have the case dropped.
PLEASE MAKE THIS A FRONTPAGE NEWS ITEM TO SPREAD AWARENESS!
Metallic- to answer your question in short, she was engulfed by the darkness of her masters' spell, and died. It's really unfortunate that, i really more or less expected Toshi to go into a fight with OK and Konda and Mochi in a 4 way battle royal, with Toshi eventually dying and being mourned by Hidetsugu, Kiku, and Michiko + Kitsune (especially Sharp Ear, maybe a sharp comment like "you selfish bastard, even in death".
Something catchy like that, but no, Kiku had to go and die
I was wondering if anyone knew what month Dissension was coming out? I know the set got moved up 1 month due to Coldsnap, but i wasn't positive if that meant the same for the novel? I know Mr.Herndon is currently on a deadline, but i'm not sure if it's for Dissension or not?
Anyone know anything? Especially you Mr.Mcgough? (who is also on a deadline for book 1 of the next block i imagine).
Gpile, you added me about a week ago, i never knew who you were and you never replied when i asked
You really think running more than 8 signets would be a worthwhile idea? Hmm...that sounds kinda interesting, it certainly makes Wildfire more effective, and helps smoothing out the curve if you add an extra 9th and perhaps 10th signet. I'll have to test it out, for now, check my list on the BB18 thread and tell me if you think my manabase is smooth enough in its current form.
Nan's on crack! But no really i have to see this four color manabase, sounds really intriguing. I still wanna know what's black in your build!
A) Acceleration
B) Ability to tap down your only threat via Glare
C) Arashi, The Sky Asunder
That's when the Needle's come out of the board full force. Nan and I had less trouble with the match-up when we ran our Copy Enchantments, although it is certainly not hard to either keep him down with an Icy or Leash him-- or Icy him until you can find a Leash
Copy Enchantment helped because a turn 3/4 KotNT would always be trouble, and Leash doesnt help there, so you'd either have to race to Wildfire it or Copy the Leash and take it, which was ultimately how we found success in the pre-board game.
But the Japanese version of the deck (with card draw and Mana Leaks MD) didn't like to see that deck. Not one bit.
And i blew up when you said i accused you of having false results. 3 different times ive tested pre-board Fetters and sb Wrath and gotten 3-2 in EDs favor, with BB18, the same person Cyan has been testing with recently.
The only reason i'm flipping wig off the richter scale is because i'm posting answers in the form of testing results, and you both come up with more and more excuses about how the the player of the deck is "inadequate". The thing that's inadequate is how you don't post results, and then when someone else does, you shoot them down.
That's inadequate.
So, i'm going to keep posting my accurate results, using the same partners Cyan has claimed to use the past few nights, very viable t2 players, and these ones are overly smug *******s who'd make an excuse for ****ing their own mother if it suited them.
But they've caused the worst side of me to come out. I don't waste my time with such worthless t2 players/human beings. They're both blocked. I'll still be coming with those heated test results. I mean, i was testing and perfecting the deck along time before it hit Tier 1, so i must've done SOMETHING right along the way.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Don't Censor Evade.
Also, flame warning.
Hello again. Firstly, mind if i post that Q&A from Manatap over here? Secondly, it's my 999th post, so i thought in honor of my 1000th post coming, you could tell me when Dissension Novel is coming out, considering they moved the set up a month to consider Coldsnap when it came out.
And secondly- i'd like to ask why we don't get to hear Feather explain to Pivlic where she's been all book!?
999 bottles of beer on the wall, 999 posts of beer.
EDw vs. Zoo w/ b splash = 6-4 pre-board, 5-5 post after that marathon tonight.
And please be a little more partial, when everyone says you should tear those Tiers down because it's too early and they're off, you should. I know who's whispering in your ear, for once the puppeteer is the high strung one.
Edit- Wow, and you definately put this thread in your sig. You're the man dude, you posted something equivelent to the bible!
I would MUCH rather read about all the good/bad match-ups the various decks have, followed by testing result numbers to back them.
THAT would be worthwhile, and much more comprehensive than what this is in its current state.
And even after i did the testing, you're going with Cyan's opinion that you need Wrath maindeck over Fetters. And Mana Leak? 3 Wildfires only?
And against an aggro environment, you want to play Tidings O_O!?
This list is an utter travesty, and any testing i contributed was terribly abused and mis-treated.
Results shows my build of ED, which is far far from the very weak build Will's posted here, beats Zoo 6-4 in the pre-board and 6-4 in the post-board. It's still a work in progress as to making the aggro match-up better, but that decklist if you want to play ED is a complete and utter farse.
Edit- And i agree with Lesurgo, CMU should be moved down to Tier 2. I dont see how adding 6 cards (4x Mortify and 2 Godless Shrine) immediately makes non-existant Rock to Tier 1 when ED falls from Tier 1 to Tier 2. That's utterly ridiculous.
His argument was
A) I test against bad builds and incompetent people not familiar with the deck.
B) I lie when I post test results so they're worthless.
C) I clearly don't have his skill level, so I should defer to him as God.
Actually 3-2 isn't 50-50. That would be 2-2. And after 2 sets of 5 games (you don't do them in 6's Cyan, not to just cover your incorrectness) the record is 6-4. That's not 50-50, that favorable to ED.
I never said I had the match figured out, nor that I was better than Cyan, I only said I disagreed and proved my thoughts had foundation- you can go 6-4 without Wrath maindeck on the pre-board.
Clearly Cyan is a friend of yours, but regardless of how much you 2 back each other, he made statements as fact that weren't fact. He acts as if I'm some noob and he's Richard Garfield himself, and I don't have to take it. That's why I'm gloating-- I brought the fight to my area of expertise (testing) and proved my point. Regardless of if he plays 1000 more games, the deck can go without Wrath mainboarded.
And I'm not going to gloat anymore about it unless he brings up his 'facts' again, to which I've already proven wrong and itd be a waste of time bothering with further so-called facts, because he's proved he only intends to discredit my testing and that of others (including the now banned IBTG). Futhermore, his argument is followed by a "because I said so." No foundation. This is competitive, go back to decks for critique if all you intend to do is critique.
Now, if you're done being a hypocrite, I'd like to get back to the topic (but I will not let myself be harassed, if Lesurgo and Onikani won't stop them, then I will.)
What is everyone thinking about Ghostly Prison as a sideboard option? Its good vs. Glare and Zoo, and other forms of aggro, but the speedier the more painful.
Also, I've gotten a lot of negative feedback to Ivory Mask. I through it in there for Urza and Netsuke, but I suppose no Netsuke will not be competitive, so Prison could fill that 4x spot?
I will step in. Everyone needs to get this thread on track. I don't want to see any argueing over who is better, and why you think so. Agreably this is a game of statistics, so if everyone can back up what they say and do it constructively, there won't be any problems...
Right? -Oni
See, funny thing is you're only supposed to do 5 pre-board, and Will told me how quick you were to ask for 5 more when you were down 3-2.
So you're excuse now is that you can't be a competent Zoo builder/player, after all this talk of the utter dominance of it, and just play you and you'll shut everyones mouth. Well sry you need to shut yours. You went 3-2 with your "better zoo build" and I went 3-2, making it 6-4 pre-board (you don't do pre-board in 6's dude, you'd know that if you posted more results) 6-4 post board (you don't do post boards in 1 of's and then walk away when you win one, like you did with Will last night).
Here's a quote from Jadakiss for all of you reading the last few pages--i think you know what I'm referring to.
This man talk a real big game, he's just an actor. Matter fact- pretty sure dude aint a factor. I keep testing you, it's getting alarmin, ya commentary? 100% pure garbage
D-block son. Anybody on this thread can say what they want, but please don't bs like some people insist on doing. Don't do it to yourself. If you make a claim and can't back it up, don't make it.
This is competitive, and you look like a chump doing it.
Please Chill.
I have been toying around with a BW Sins of the Past deck though, they really are shocked to see Herd hit the grave via Peace of Mind at the eot, and go into a turn 5 Sins of the Past. Call it good game if they don't have a wrath or clasm, and even then I've got Leyline White and Anthem to boost them.
Its more or less casual.
And a friend of mine apparently tested vs. Cyan and he got another 3-2 ED favored in the pre-board.
Note- he ran my build, which is not running Wrath maindeck. 3-2 and 3-2= 6-4 pre-board so far for my Ed build vs. Zoo.
And after siding in I already got 6-4 in favor of ED again.
I had an idea to make the aggro matchup better.
Ghostly Prison?
That could seriously dampen the plans of the Zoo player, since a turn 3 prison dampens there plans heavily, especially with jitte tempo. It also makes it tough for them to get 3 creatures online and attacking, and with 2 Prisons (or 1 with a copy enchantment), you really press them.
Let it be noted that 3-2 the first preboard was against a Zoo deck with moldervine cloak instead of jitte and no Maher (Dark Confidant)- which the 2nd 3-2 preboard featured.
Yet overall, 6-4 preboard vs Zoo and 6-4 postboard....without Wrath maindeck.
Testing doesn't lie guys.
PLEASE MAKE THIS A FRONTPAGE NEWS ITEM TO SPREAD AWARENESS!
Ixidor--
Something catchy like that, but no, Kiku had to go and die
I was wondering if anyone knew what month Dissension was coming out? I know the set got moved up 1 month due to Coldsnap, but i wasn't positive if that meant the same for the novel? I know Mr.Herndon is currently on a deadline, but i'm not sure if it's for Dissension or not?
Anyone know anything? Especially you Mr.Mcgough? (who is also on a deadline for book 1 of the next block i imagine).
You really think running more than 8 signets would be a worthwhile idea? Hmm...that sounds kinda interesting, it certainly makes Wildfire more effective, and helps smoothing out the curve if you add an extra 9th and perhaps 10th signet. I'll have to test it out, for now, check my list on the BB18 thread and tell me if you think my manabase is smooth enough in its current form.
Nan's on crack!
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2x Miren, the Moaning Well
4x Tendo Ice Bridge
4x Adarkar Wastes
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Plains
5x Islands
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
3x Steam Vents
Creatures//
3x Keiga, The Tide Star
2x Yosei, The Morning Star
4x Annex
4x Dream Leash
2x Copy Enchantment
4x Faith's Fetters
3x Remand
3x Icy Manipulator
4x Wildfire
2x Dimir Signet
2x Boros Signet
4x Izzet Signet
4x Wrath of God
4x Ivory Mask
4x Pithing Needle
3x Shadow of Doubt
That's my most updated list BB. Sideboard needs good work put into it though depending on meta.