WhammeWhamme: yep, fixed
Anachronity: Oh, yeah, I had it as 6-0 you and then later suddenly "realized" I could stop you on the play, but got too excited and didn't really think it through.
This was surprisingly not terrible for a deck I built in about ten minutes when I realized the deadline had already passed!
5) Personman :: Puncture Blast Is a Legal Card in this Format
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Council's Judgment / Puncture Blast / Wheel of Sun and Moon
vs.
1) Anachronity :: Serra's Sanctum Prelate Gets a Workout from All That Heavy Lifting
Leyline of Lifeforce / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Vitality / Sanctum Prelate / Serra's Sanctum
Shoulda just played Bolt. But on the play, I can Judgment a Leyline, and then you can never do anything. 0-6.
2) knobbodi :: Standard Win Condition Plus Modern Combo Plus This Year's Eternal Weekend Legacy Championship Prize Land Plus a Mox
Approach of the Second Sun / Devoted Druid / Mox Pearl / Savannah / Vizier of Remedies
Judgment on the Mox just wins. 6-0.
3) Magus of the Aesthetic :: Not Even Trying at This Point [Editor's Note: I did not assign this name.]
Forest / Hickory Woodlot / Lush Growth / Nissa's Chosen / Savage Summoning
Agree, 6-0.
4) Mogg :: My Name Is Mogg So I Play Goblins
Empty the Warrens / Mox Ruby / Mox Sapphire / Retract / Retract
Agree, 2-2.
6) WhammeWhamme :: Magus and I Thought It Was Still Trees Week So We Played Forests
Forest / Inkmoth Nexus / Invigorate / Invigorate / Pithing Needle
You have to keep Invigorate for your second attack, or else I can just Blast. If you Invigorate in response to Blast, the fact that it's Blast actually matters! Guess I shouldn't've just played Bolt after all! I go to 7 poison and you can never activate Inkmoth again. 6-0
What I like about combining creatures is that it's surprisingly intuitive rules-wise.
I don't think so. Here are a bunch of things I think are not obvious:
What relationship do their text boxes have to each other? Is one "first"? Does the combined creature have two text boxes?
What happens if they have conflicting CDAs? What if they have CEs in a dependency loop (and with the same timestamp)?
What happens if the creature transforms, or flips, or a morph ability of its face-down half is activated?
If half of a creature is face down, is it a face-down creature?
Can abilities be linked across text boxes?
I'm not saying we can't come up with reasonable answers to all of these, I just think you'd need to do a LOT more work than just having the word "combine" in the round rule :)
EDIT: Oh, I also disagree that Mary's "switch" is unambiguous. Does the new one enter and the old one leave, or is it more like transforming? Does it get a new timestamp like it would when it transforms? Are statuses and other properties not listed in the reminder text also preserved, like face-down, flipped, and phased out? If the thing you're trying to switch is no longer in your hand when the ability resolves, or the thing you're switching with no longer on the battlefield, what happens?
7) Personman 1-4
Lands don't have haste, meaning we both look like T1 land, T2 land->Exploration->land, T3 Chalice or Pinnacle. Thus, OTP, I lock you out of your main win-con; however, the tokens stare at each other. OTD Humility means you can't tick up Pinnacle since you can't activate abilities, but then you can play Chasm post-Humility (so you don't have to sac lands) and have one more 1/1 than me, which I think allows you to swing in, take trades, and whittle me down 1 damage per turn.
I think there are several things wrong here, but the outcome is right:
Since as you say lands don't have haste, on your play you can't play Chalice on 1 on your turn 1, but I can play Pinnacle on my turn 2 instead of Exploration. But I still can't give it any counters once Humility is out (which I had missed), so it's better for me to just play Exploration.
Lands are indestructible, so there's no "taking trades", there's just getting in with the ones you can't block.
I'm not sure why I would play Chasm post-Humility – I can never sacrifice any lands due to the round rule (regardless of Humility – it's not an ability).
Because of ELR, I think I'm ahead of you on creatures even on the draw, but never on un-sick creatures, so I can never get through.
Quote from Anachronity »
@Personman: I disagree; Argothian Elder combos since he can untap himself.
My pinnacle goldfish is wayyy slower, so I have to try to attack.
1. Land + Chasm
1. Land + Cradle
2. Exploration, Land, no use attacking
2. Land, Elder
3. 6 Lands, attack with 4, you can block 1. 14.
3. Land, Pinnacle.
4. 8 Lands, attack with 6, you can block 3. 8. End step 13 counters (2 + 1 untapped lands, 2 cradles at 5 each)
4. Land
5. 10 Lands, attack with 8. You can block 5. 2. End step 16 more counters = 29 counters, but then I win.
There are some slightly different lines, but in the end it takes you 5 more turns to win and I'm pretty sure I'm going to outpace you no matter what. 6-0.
2) CalvinSchwa
Chalice of the Void / Exploration / Humility
Chalice isn't fast enough to stop Pinnacle. Humility turns off Chasm, but since we both have Exploration our creatures stare at each other except for when mine are putting counters on Pinnacle in your end step. 6-0.
I can't Pinnacle, see below. 4-1.
3) Feyd_Ruin
Authority of the Consuls / Meekstone / Shared Triumph
Neither of us can ever damage the other, and I can't play nearly enough untapped lands to win with Pinnacle. 2-2.
I like Anachronity's suggestion, it also removes the weird, very-old-legend-rule-esque fact that if two players happen to play the same card, whoever gets to play theirs first "wins".
Oh, gross, Scryfall showed me the Master's Edition Tabernacle first, which is a reprint that says "sacrifice", so I assumed it was right. Anyway, yes, I can't remember what cards do, 2-2 indeed.
If you lead with Tomb, I play field.
If you field my field, I play tomb.
You cast Digger.
I play Stage.
You dig, draw, play, but can't activate.
I play depths, make a token.
You make a token.
They stare at eachother.
I don't follow why after I make my token I can't activate Digger over the next two turns and make another one. I have Field back to pay the upkeep for the one I have, so I'm free to use the 2 from Tomb to dig back Depths and Stage.
Oh! I thought the deadline was midnight? I just sent in a hand, and I promise I hadn't seen any of these before doing so. If I'm allowed to sneak it through, it was
Soldevi Digger
Ancient Tomb
Field of Ruin
Thespian's Stage
Dark Depths
vs:
1) Anachronity
Bitterblossom / Black Lotus / Chancellor of the Forge / Gaea's Cradle / Karn Liberated
Not sure how to conceptualize this immediately so I'll just start doing it out:
1. Bitter, 1/1, attack
1. 19. Thesp
2. 1 faerie, attack
2. 18. DD
3. 2f, attack
3. 16. Tomb, make Marit. 14.
4. 3f, attack, block
4. 12, Digger. 10.
5. 3f, attack, block
5. 8. Get Stage back. 6.
6. 3f, attack, block
6. 4. Get Depths back, 2, dead. I don't think it goes any better on my play, Bitterblossom is pretty good against Marit.
0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
Cavern of Souls / Patrician's Scorn / Saltcrusted Steppe / Serene Remembrance / Student of Warfare
This doesn't interact with my much faster goldfish. 6-0.
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Field of Soon-to-be-Banned
Ancient Tomb / Dark Depths / Field of Ruin / The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale / Thespian's Stage
Hey, nice deck! :) Also, complicated match.
When I'm on the play, I play Tomb first and kill whichever of Tomb or Field you play first, so you can never kill my Tomb to keep me off Digger, and I make more Marits than you and win (I can pay for 2, anyway).Marit Lage is legendary.
On your play, you can play Tomb first, but then I can lead with Field. You can't Field my Field, because then I'll be able to Dig and win as above. You can play Field though, and then if I try to Field your Tomb, you get mine too and we draw. If you commit to a combo piece instead I can just kill it and draw, or match it and.. also draw.
2-2
4) knobbodi
City of Traitor / Ensnaring Bridge / Mishra's Workshop / Scalding Tongs / Sphere of Resistance
On your play you can have one thing before I kill Workshop. Your best bet is Bridge, which gets you a draw. 4-1.
5) Magus of the Aesthetic :: Spaghetti on the Wall
Greater Gargadon / Maze of Ith / Rishadan Port / Spell Pierce / Volcanic Island
I can do everything in my upkeep so Port doesn't matter, and I can Field Maze and make Marit long before Garg comes down. 6-0.
6) Mogg
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / City of Traitors / Dramatic Entrance / Progenitus
I feel like you could've used the card slot you saved over Mogg to play something that does something. Regardless, you are similarly fast and unblockable. 0-6.
Format Ideas (other people should post these too!)
The Pit
5CH
Players begin the game with an emblem with "At the beginning of your upkeep, discard a card."
Double Time
3CH LR
Once each turn, players may play an additional land from outside the game. Natural Emergence is banned, maybe.
Ixalan!
4CH
Pirates and Dinosaurs have +1/+0.
Merfolk and Vampires have +0/+1.
Players begin the game with two colorless Treasure artifact tokens with “{T}, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.” on the battlefield.
It's not actually illegal to submit hands that can't win anymore. Instead, we just have
Quote from PHM Rules »
4.2b. The moderator also will try to notify a player if that player's hand doesn't enable that player to win the game against any possible hand.
So if we're being sticklers, you just get to live with a bunch of draws. It's kinda feel-bad in a situation like this - I wouldn't be opposed to revisiting that rule. I'm honestly fine with it either way, I guess we just need to decide whether we want to be lenient and trusting, or more precise and accept the consequences when we mess up.
After looking at deck #1, I was sure I was going to get totally crushed this round. But it looks like I might've actually found myself in an ok spot: The combo decks got a bit punished, and I did well against the people who punished them.
5) Personman
Anurid Scavenger / City of Traitors / Dust Bowl / Inkmoth Nexus / Recoil
vs
1) CalvinSchwa :: Snoke and the New Death Star
Basalt Monolith / Black Lotus / Mindswipe / Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker / Power Artifact
I can't even manage to find two lands to rub together. 0-6. Bolas can't actually win, as mentioned below. 2-2.
2) Feyd_Ruin :: Back to unused stuff?
Aetherflux Reservoir / Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors / Grinning Ignus / Pyroblast
On your play, you play Reservoir, I play Inkmoth + City and Recoil it, you discard Pyro and replay it, I play Scavenger. If you pay 50 to kill Scavenger, I can play Dust Bowl and activate in response to the City trigger to kill your City, which causes you to gain only 1 life a turn and hit me for 2. In the 10 turns I need to kill you with Inkmoth you'll have only made up 36 or 39 of the life deficit. If you don't kill it, you instead gain 3 life from Ignus on turn 4, having lost 6 life total so far. Then I get Recoil back and hit Reservoir and win. 6-0 Inkmoth is a creature too. 0-6.
3) knobbodi
Ancient Tomb / Field of Ruin / Hushwing Gryff / Leonin Relic-Warder / Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
You can't keep me off Anurid and once I have it you can't really do anything about it at all. I get my land back and Recoil your stuff until it is gone. 6-0.
4) Magus of the Aesthetic :: I can play infect whenever
Bottomless Vault / Evil Presence / Magister Sphinx / Simian Spirit Guide / Spell Pierce
SSG for Pierce is pretty sick. Unfortunately, I don't really need any noncreature spells to resolve. I play City turn 2 and stick Anurid, and you can choose between making City a Swamp, in which case I just play Dust Bowl and start Recoiling, or holding it, in which case you can never play Vault for fear of Dust Bowl. 6-0.
Making infinite supermana on turn 1 is really a pretty good idea, why didn't I think of that? At least the Lotus decks lose to Spell Pierce. 0-6.
7) WhammeWhamme
Blightsteel Colossus / Foil / Island / Sand Silos / Through the Breach
You really like Through the Breach, huh? Happily, it is expensive enough that I have plenty of time to Dust Bowl Sand Silos, and I don't care at all about Foil. 6-0.
The printed text of this old-timey favorite, including an adorable example, referred to "any type of mana." This became "color" over time, which was fine until the advent of colorless mana in costs. It's an edge case, but maybe you have to cast Kozilek, the Great Distortion and all you have are 14 Forests and a North Star. We got your back.
Old rules text:
{4}, {T}: For one spell this turn, you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to pay that spell's mana cost. (Additional costs are still paid normally.)
New rules text:
{4}, {T}: For one spell this turn, you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to pay that spell's mana cost. (Additional costs are still paid normally.)
Well, it was Feyd who added the change-to-black clause :) Also, I wasn't suggesting removing it, I like it too – I think the rule should be "Black mana may be spent as though it were mana of any color, or as though it were colorless mana."
Anachronity: Oh, yeah, I had it as 6-0 you and then later suddenly "realized" I could stop you on the play, but got too excited and didn't really think it through.
5) Personman :: Puncture Blast Is a Legal Card in this Format
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Council's Judgment / Puncture Blast / Wheel of Sun and Moon
vs.
Leyline of Lifeforce / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of Vitality / Sanctum Prelate / Serra's Sanctum
Shoulda just played Bolt.
But on the play, I can Judgment a Leyline, and then you can never do anything.0-6.2) knobbodi :: Standard Win Condition Plus Modern Combo Plus This Year's Eternal Weekend Legacy Championship Prize Land Plus a Mox
Approach of the Second Sun / Devoted Druid / Mox Pearl / Savannah / Vizier of Remedies
Judgment on the Mox just wins. 6-0.
3) Magus of the Aesthetic :: Not Even Trying at This Point [Editor's Note: I did not assign this name.]
Forest / Hickory Woodlot / Lush Growth / Nissa's Chosen / Savage Summoning
Agree, 6-0.
4) Mogg :: My Name Is Mogg So I Play Goblins
Empty the Warrens / Mox Ruby / Mox Sapphire / Retract / Retract
Agree, 2-2.
6) WhammeWhamme :: Magus and I Thought It Was Still Trees Week So We Played Forests
Forest / Inkmoth Nexus / Invigorate / Invigorate / Pithing Needle
You have to keep Invigorate for your second attack, or else I can just Blast. If you Invigorate in response to Blast, the fact that it's Blast actually matters! Guess I shouldn't've just played Bolt after all! I go to 7 poison and you can never activate Inkmoth again. 6-02-2 as WhammeWhamme notes below.
What relationship do their text boxes have to each other? Is one "first"? Does the combined creature have two text boxes?
What happens if they have conflicting CDAs? What if they have CEs in a dependency loop (and with the same timestamp)?
What happens if the creature transforms, or flips, or a morph ability of its face-down half is activated?
If half of a creature is face down, is it a face-down creature?
Can abilities be linked across text boxes?
I'm not saying we can't come up with reasonable answers to all of these, I just think you'd need to do a LOT more work than just having the word "combine" in the round rule :)
EDIT: Oh, I also disagree that Mary's "switch" is unambiguous. Does the new one enter and the old one leave, or is it more like transforming? Does it get a new timestamp like it would when it transforms? Are statuses and other properties not listed in the reminder text also preserved, like face-down, flipped, and phased out? If the thing you're trying to switch is no longer in your hand when the ability resolves, or the thing you're switching with no longer on the battlefield, what happens?
I like Bar Exam a lot, and I think it probably works and will lead to a lot of delightful brokenness.
Since as you say lands don't have haste, on your play you can't play Chalice on 1 on your turn 1, but I can play Pinnacle on my turn 2 instead of Exploration. But I still can't give it any counters once Humility is out (which I had missed), so it's better for me to just play Exploration.
Lands are indestructible, so there's no "taking trades", there's just getting in with the ones you can't block.
I'm not sure why I would play Chasm post-Humility – I can never sacrifice any lands due to the round rule (regardless of Humility – it's not an ability).
Because of ELR, I think I'm ahead of you on creatures even on the draw, but never on un-sick creatures, so I can never get through.
That's smart!
7) Personman
Exploration / Glacial Chasm / Helix Pinnacle
vs.
Argothian Elder / Gaea's Cradle / Helix Pinnacle
Disregard the below, Elder is a Land. 0-6.
My pinnacle goldfish is wayyy slower, so I have to try to attack.
1. Land + Chasm
1. Land + Cradle
2. Exploration, Land, no use attacking
2. Land, Elder
3. 6 Lands, attack with 4, you can block 1. 14.
3. Land, Pinnacle.
4. 8 Lands, attack with 6, you can block 3. 8. End step 13 counters (2 + 1 untapped lands, 2 cradles at 5 each)
4. Land
5. 10 Lands, attack with 8. You can block 5. 2. End step 16 more counters = 29 counters, but then I win.
There are some slightly different lines, but in the end it takes you 5 more turns to win and I'm pretty sure I'm going to outpace you no matter what. 6-0.
2) CalvinSchwa
Chalice of the Void / Exploration / Humility
Chalice isn't fast enough to stop Pinnacle. Humility turns off Chasm, but since we both have Exploration our creatures stare at each other except for when mine are putting counters on Pinnacle in your end step. 6-0.I can't Pinnacle, see below. 4-1.
3) Feyd_Ruin
Authority of the Consuls / Meekstone / Shared Triumph
Neither of us can ever damage the other, and I can't play nearly enough untapped lands to win with Pinnacle. 2-2.
4) knobbodi
Council's Judgment / Path to Exile / Serene Remembrance
I like it! But my permanents don't. 0-6.
5) Magus of the Aesthetic :: Torment of Venom plus two Glacial Chasms
Elixir of Immortality / Path to Exile / Shared Animosity
Indestructible is a good ability. I have plenty of blockers and Pinnacle. 6-0.
6) Mogg
Chancellor of the Forge / Cursed Totem / Exploration
agree, 2-2
8) psly4mne
City of Shadows / City of Traitors / Emeria Angel
Your tokens can't hurt me. 6-0.
9) WhammeWhamme
Isochron Scepter / Path to Exile / Path to Exile
Exploration keeps up nicely with one Path a turn, and Pinnacle wins. 6-0.
Soldevi Digger
Ancient Tomb
Field of Ruin
Thespian's Stage
Dark Depths
vs:
1) Anachronity
Bitterblossom / Black Lotus / Chancellor of the Forge / Gaea's Cradle / Karn Liberated
Not sure how to conceptualize this immediately so I'll just start doing it out:
1. Bitter, 1/1, attack
1. 19. Thesp
2. 1 faerie, attack
2. 18. DD
3. 2f, attack
3. 16. Tomb, make Marit. 14.
4. 3f, attack, block
4. 12, Digger. 10.
5. 3f, attack, block
5. 8. Get Stage back. 6.
6. 3f, attack, block
6. 4. Get Depths back, 2, dead. I don't think it goes any better on my play, Bitterblossom is pretty good against Marit.
0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
Cavern of Souls / Patrician's Scorn / Saltcrusted Steppe / Serene Remembrance / Student of Warfare
This doesn't interact with my much faster goldfish. 6-0.
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Field of Soon-to-be-Banned
Ancient Tomb / Dark Depths / Field of Ruin / The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale / Thespian's Stage
Hey, nice deck! :) Also, complicated match.
When I'm on the play, I play Tomb first and kill whichever of Tomb or Field you play first, so you can never kill my Tomb to keep me off Digger, and I make more Marits than you and win (I can pay for 2, anyway).Marit Lage is legendary.On your play, you can play Tomb first, but then I can lead with Field. You can't Field my Field, because then I'll be able to Dig and win as above. You can play Field though, and then if I try to Field your Tomb, you get mine too and we draw. If you commit to a combo piece instead I can just kill it and draw, or match it and.. also draw.
2-2
4) knobbodi
City of Traitor / Ensnaring Bridge / Mishra's Workshop / Scalding Tongs / Sphere of Resistance
On your play you can have one thing before I kill Workshop. Your best bet is Bridge, which gets you a draw. 4-1.
5) Magus of the Aesthetic :: Spaghetti on the Wall
Greater Gargadon / Maze of Ith / Rishadan Port / Spell Pierce / Volcanic Island
I can do everything in my upkeep so Port doesn't matter, and I can Field Maze and make Marit long before Garg comes down. 6-0.
6) Mogg
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / City of Traitors / Dramatic Entrance / Progenitus
Fast and unblockable. 0-6.
7) psly4mne
Bazaar of Baghdad / Elvish Spirit Guide / Memnite / Progenitus / Summoning Trap
I feel like you could've used the card slot you saved over Mogg to play something that does something. Regardless, you are similarly fast and unblockable. 0-6.
8) WhammeWhamme
Ferropede / Leyline of Lifeforce / Mishra's Workshop / Phyrexian Metamorph / Phyrexian Revoker
If you could play Revoker on Digger AND hold Metamorph for Marit, you'd win, but I can just kill Workshop. No one thing you have is enough. 6-0.
The Pit
5CH
Players begin the game with an emblem with "At the beginning of your upkeep, discard a card."
Double Time
3CH LR
Once each turn, players may play an additional land from outside the game.
Natural Emergence is banned, maybe.
Ixalan!
4CH
Pirates and Dinosaurs have +1/+0.
Merfolk and Vampires have +0/+1.
Players begin the game with two colorless Treasure artifact tokens with “{T}, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.” on the battlefield.
So if we're being sticklers, you just get to live with a bunch of draws. It's kinda feel-bad in a situation like this - I wouldn't be opposed to revisiting that rule. I'm honestly fine with it either way, I guess we just need to decide whether we want to be lenient and trusting, or more precise and accept the consequences when we mess up.
5) Personman
Anurid Scavenger / City of Traitors / Dust Bowl / Inkmoth Nexus / Recoil
vs
Basalt Monolith / Black Lotus / Mindswipe / Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker / Power Artifact
I can't even manage to find two lands to rub together. 0-6.Bolas can't actually win, as mentioned below. 2-2.2) Feyd_Ruin :: Back to unused stuff?
Aetherflux Reservoir / Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors / Grinning Ignus / Pyroblast
On your play, you play Reservoir, I play Inkmoth + City and Recoil it, you discard Pyro and replay it, I play Scavenger. If you pay 50 to kill Scavenger, I can play Dust Bowl and activate in response to the City trigger to kill your City, which causes you to gain only 1 life a turn and hit me for 2.
In the 10 turns I need to kill you with Inkmoth you'll have only made up 36 or 39 of the life deficit. If you don't kill it, you instead gain 3 life from Ignus on turn 4, having lost 6 life total so far. Then I get Recoil back and hit Reservoir and win. 6-0Inkmoth is a creature too. 0-6.3) knobbodi
Ancient Tomb / Field of Ruin / Hushwing Gryff / Leonin Relic-Warder / Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
You can't keep me off Anurid and once I have it you can't really do anything about it at all. I get my land back and Recoil your stuff until it is gone. 6-0.
4) Magus of the Aesthetic :: I can play infect whenever
Bottomless Vault / Evil Presence / Magister Sphinx / Simian Spirit Guide / Spell Pierce
SSG for Pierce is pretty sick. Unfortunately, I don't really need any noncreature spells to resolve. I play City turn 2 and stick Anurid, and you can choose between making City a Swamp, in which case I just play Dust Bowl and start Recoiling, or holding it, in which case you can never play Vault for fear of Dust Bowl. 6-0.
6) tomsloger
Black Lotus / Capsize / Karakas / Sorin Markov / Treasonous Ogre
Making infinite supermana on turn 1 is really a pretty good idea, why didn't I think of that? At least the Lotus decks lose to Spell Pierce. 0-6.
7) WhammeWhamme
Blightsteel Colossus / Foil / Island / Sand Silos / Through the Breach
You really like Through the Breach, huh? Happily, it is expensive enough that I have plenty of time to Dust Bowl Sand Silos, and I don't care at all about Foil. 6-0.
5 | 2 0 6 6 X 0 6 | 20 | 333