Well, this went pretty dang well! Nary a Path in sight. I'm glad a nice, flexible, tempting, expensive, sorcery speed version was printed! :D
6 | 3 6 6 2 6 6 6 | 34 | 486
6) Personman
Dark Depths / Sol Ring / Thespian's Stage || Forest
vs
1) Anachronity :: The Floorboard Horde
From Under the Floorboards / Lion's Eye Diamond / Lion's Eye Diamond || Swamp
As you said, the lifegain gets you there on the play. 3-3
2) Choptimist
Council's Judgment / Gather the Townsfolk / Wheel of Sun and Moon || Plains
On the play, I win before Judgment is available. On the draw, I make Marit in your end step and win. 6-0
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Bringing Balance Back!
Balance / Pyramid of the Pantheon / Shrine of Loyal Legions || Wastes
I make Marit in your end step and win. 6-0.
4) knobbodi
Council's Judgment / Inkmoth Nexus / Wheel of Sun and Moon || Plains
On your play Inkmoth + Wheel is out in time to block Marit forever, which is neat. If you ever attack though, I make Marit in your end step and win. EDIT: On my play, as you mention below, you can forget about Wheel and block once, leaving Marit a 19/19 that you can cast Judgment upon from 1 life. 2-2.
I think you might be able to win. If I play agent first, you can use Crypt to get Culling back and then go off. If I don't, you can just go off and I can't play Agent before I have to take Crypt. Not 100% sure though and I have to go to sleep now.
Well, I knew my deck was bad – didn't get too much time this week, so I just submitted the first cute thing I found. But I didn't realize quite how prevalent colorless "you control" removal would be – I think Stave Off was a completely dead card in every matchup. Later I might re-run my results with Vindicate in that slot, I think it might actually do pretty well.
6 | 0 0 6 0 0 X 6 2 0 | 14 |
6) Personman
Breath of Fury / Sleeper Agent / Stave Off
vs.
I don't know quite what I mean by this, but this is such a tomsloger deck. I really like it. It's also my most interesting matchup.
On the play, tomsloger can get Bow down on 3, and then Boom every turn, or sometimes gain life and sometimes Boom. It's not quite obvious how it works out, so:
1.
1. Agent
2. go to 18, hit me to 17, play Boom leaving me at 0 lands.
2. agent attack, 15. 1 land.
3. go to 13, hit me to 14, Bow.
3. agent attack, 10. 2 lands.
4. go to 8, hit me to 11, gain 3 to 11
4. agent attack, 8. 3 lands.
5. go to 6, Bow back Boom, hit me to 8, Boom me to 1 land.
5. agent attack, 3. 2 lands.
6. go to 1, hit me to 5, take a land and Karn, exiling Agent.
6. Take Karn, exile Bow, draw.
I could not play lands after the initial Boom, but then tomsloger is free to gain life instead of recurring Boom.
However, I might have a really cool line:
same up through tomsloger's 3
3. take bow and shuffle 2 lands
4. go to 16, hit me to 14, boom me to 0 lands
4. play 2 lands to 2 lands, 1 in library. take agent and hit to 13.
5. go to 11, hit me to 11, has to boom again or i go off.
5. play 2 lands to 2 lands, 0 in library. take bow and shuffle.
6. go to 9, hit me to 8. Take land and Karn exiles Agent.
6. Take Karn and exile Bow, draw. Oh well.
On the play I assume I get there, but let's make sure:
1. Agent
1. 18, 17.
2. 15.
2. 13, 14. Boom me to 0.
3. 10. 1 land.
3. 8, 11. Gain to 11.
4. 8. 2 lands.
4. 6, 8. Gain to 9.
5. 6. 3 lands.
5. 4, 5. Must Boom.
6. 3. 2 lands.
6. 1. Eesh. I don't quite make it.
On my play, I cast Heap Doll. If you go for shelldock, Heap Doll hits Fatestitcher before he returns from Unearth. This keeps Isle tapped. I untap and Lush Growth it to render it useless.
If you cast Mox + Judge's Familiar first and go through the above, however, Familiar will be there to counter my Serene Remembrance, which means Heap Doll never comes back and I can't kill you.
So it's a tie on my play.
Why can't you just play Nodes, and then play Serene once Familiar is dead?
Regarding 3v5, Nodes doesn't target, and can hit Titan just fine.
Another problem with the existing analyses is that Titan's ETB trigger is mandatory, so on the play, it's either hitting itself or Island. Here's how I think it goes, it's pretty surprising:
1. Island, Titan tapping Island
1. Nodes, gg
.. ok so Titan has to hit itself.
1. Titan tapping itself, Island.
1. Lush on Island. It must get Swan Song'd, or Mogg immediately loses to Nodes again.
2. Titan doesn't untap. The 2/2 isn't worth wasting Snare on, though, we need that for Nodes.
2. Nodes
3. Swing tapping Swan token, 14. Bounce Nodes.
3. Nodes
4. Swing tapping Swan token, 8.
4. Swan token dies to Nodes.
5. Swing tapping Paradise, 2.
5. Titan dies to Nodes, Feyd wins.
1. Titan tapping itself, Island.
1. Nodes, Swan Song'd.
2. Titan doesn't untap. The 2/2 isn't worth wasting Snare on, though.
2. Remembrance Nodes (and attack for 2 since it'll get tapped anyway, but it doesn't matter)
3. Swing tapping Swan token, 14.
3. Draw Remembrance. It's bad to play Doll, because it will never block and gets in the way of Nodes. So does Swan, so let's Snare that.
4. Swing tapping Paradise, which, tragically, does not bounce itself immediately, forcing Titan to tap Island. Oh well. 8.
4. Draw and play Nodes.
5. Snare Nodes, swing tapping Paradise. 2
5. Play Nodes, but it's too late.
1. Island
1. Lush on Island, Swan Song
2. Titan tapping token.
2. Nodes
3. Swing tapping token, 14. Snare Nodes.
3. Nodes.
4. Swing tapping token, 8.
4. Nodes kills token.
5. Swing tapping whatever, 2.
5. Nodes kill titan, Feyd eventually wins.
1. Nothing
1. Doll (must play it eventually or accept draw)
2. Titan tapping Doll, must play Island now or lose to nodes - bounce - nodes with no opportunity for Song.
2. Lush on Island. Song.
3. Swing tapping token, 14.
3. Nodes. Heap untaps.
4. Swing tapping Heap, 8. Bounce Nodes.
4. Nodes. Token untaps.
5. Swing tapping token, 2.
5. Nodes finally triggers. Sac Heap targeting Song to get it out of the way of Nodes. If Feyd had a land in upkeep, e could also Snare the token and make Nodes hit Titan. But e doesn't, and it's too late!
1) Anachronity :: Ley it on the Line
Aura of Silence / Leyline of Lifeforce / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of the Void / Sanctum Prelate / Serra's Sanctum
On the draw I obviously can’t do anything. On the play, I could get t2 Proggy through Leyline of the Void, because I choose which RE to apply and I don’t rely on Fatestitcher because of Sapphire. However, Judge’s Familiar unfortunately says "instant or sorcery" and not "noncreasture" like I thought for a sec, so Aura blows up or locks out Sapphire.
Well, I tried to build around Leyline, and it almost worked!
0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Mental Misstep / Mindswipe / Vedalken Orrery
On the draw I don’t get to do anything.
On the play I get Proggy and you can’t do anything.
On my play Familiar staves off Nodes just long enough. On your play, you can’t just stick Nodes, because I’ll pass and it’ll die. So you can only play Doll to stop t1 Prog. However, if I then try to go off at all, Shelldock becomes Lush, and then I just have Familiar, which is not nearly enough.
3-3
4) knobbodi
Anvil of Bogardan / Dust Bowl / Grove of the Burnwillows / Mountain / Punishing Fire / Ratchet Bomb
This deck doesn’t do anything on turn 1, which seems pretty bad in this format.
6-0
5) Mogg
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Frost Titan / Island / Swan Song / Void Snare
On my play, you have no answer to t1 Proggy. On your play, I get to try Sapphire. If you Song it, I go off. If you don’t, I get Familiar. Then I can try to go off. You want to Song LED, but to pay for Familiar you have to give up Titan. Swan Song can't counter artifacts. Thanks Anachronicicity!
6-0
7) WhammeWhamme
Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Foil / Island / Legacy Weapon
Yay, a Foil! I built specifically to survive Foil and Leyline of the Void on the play, at least I get to do one of 'em!
On my play you don’t have mana for Familiar, so it stops Foil, so I win. On Your play, you have plenty of mana for Familiar, so you counter LED and I lose.
3-3
6 | 0 3 3 6 6 X 3 | 18 | 300
Anachronicity, I think you have 350 points, not 300 – it looks like you divided by players rather than opponents.
I would like to voice my support for psly4mne's version of the format, at least as far as permissable cards go. I'm ambivalent about the deck requirement part.
My deck is significantly worse under this interpretation, but it sounds like people who didn't have the past to trick them read it as being in hand, so I think we should go with that.
I noticed that too - the wording is pretty unclear, but in the past I think it's always been just in the deck. That was certainly my assumption when I submitted. But it would be good to know what other people thought/what was intended.
If the round rules said "The mana costs of all spells are reduced by 1. Therefore, tapping two swamps is sufficient to cast Necropotence", would you also think that was true because the round rules said it? Or would you ask for a clarification about the rule?
There's no reason we can't have consistent rules. There's also no reason why those cards ought to be able to exile entire infinite libraries, but if we really want them to, making the libraries finite seems like the only reasonable way. I mean I guess we could also just errata the cards to say "any number or all cards with the same name", but if we're going to errata cards to do things they don't do, it seems like we might as well buff all the other cards anyone thinks are cool that aren't otherwise good enough to see play, too.
The rules say "Pick the Brain and Invasive Surgery would be able to remove all infinite copies of a card from the library with delirium.", but that's not true. They only allow you to search for "any number" of cards. If you want it to be true, we could just have libraries have 10^100 copies of the card instead.
Format suggestion: Scripted
5CH LR
For each card submitted, the submitter specifies a turn of the game with respect to the submitting player, e.g. "Black Lotus (My T1)", or "Wood Elemental (Opponent's T86)".
All submitted cards have "Play this card and activate its activated abilities only on the specified turn."
6 | 3 6 6 2 6 6 6 | 34 | 486
6) Personman
Dark Depths / Sol Ring / Thespian's Stage || Forest
vs
1) Anachronity :: The Floorboard Horde
From Under the Floorboards / Lion's Eye Diamond / Lion's Eye Diamond || Swamp
As you said, the lifegain gets you there on the play. 3-3
2) Choptimist
Council's Judgment / Gather the Townsfolk / Wheel of Sun and Moon || Plains
On the play, I win before Judgment is available. On the draw, I make Marit in your end step and win. 6-0
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Bringing Balance Back!
Balance / Pyramid of the Pantheon / Shrine of Loyal Legions || Wastes
I make Marit in your end step and win. 6-0.
4) knobbodi
Council's Judgment / Inkmoth Nexus / Wheel of Sun and Moon || Plains
On your play Inkmoth + Wheel is out in time to block Marit forever, which is neat. If you ever attack though, I make Marit in your end step and win. EDIT: On my play, as you mention below, you can forget about Wheel and block once, leaving Marit a 19/19 that you can cast Judgment upon from 1 life. 2-2.
5) Mogg
Glacial Chasm / Jinxed Choker / Mana Crypt || Wastes
My land can do anything yours can do, better! 6-0
7) tomsloger
Anvil of Bogardan / Kozilek, Butcher of Truth / Llanowar Mentor || Forest
On your play, I have to hold Sol Ring to ditch to Anvil, which means I don't get Marit until turn four. Oh no! 6-0
8) WhammeWhamme
Iona, Shield of Emeria / Lion's Eye Diamond / Unburial Rites || Plains
Who needs colors? Who needs spells? 6-0
6 | 0 0 6 0 0 X 6 2 0 | 14 |
6) Personman
Breath of Fury / Sleeper Agent / Stave Off
vs.
1) Anachronity
Endless Sands / Obzedat, Ghost Council / Stronghold Gambit
Endless Sands and a threat that doesn't exist on my turn is enough. 0-6
2) CalvinSchwa :: Rakdos Themepark
City of Shadows / Hammer of Bogardan / Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
City and a noncreature threat is enough. 0-6
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Why aren't these used more?
Culling the Weak / Forbidden Crypt / Sylvan Safekeeper
Feyd can't get rid of agent, so I never have to take Crypt, so I win. 6-0.
4) knobbodi
Kjeldoran Outpost / Ruin Ghost / Vindicate
Ruin Ghost is cool. 0-6.
5) Mogg
Chancellor of the Tangle / Shrieking Affliction / Wistful Thinking
My four-mana jank continues to get punished. 0-6
7) psly4mne
City of Traitors / Forbidden Crypt / Rain of Filth
No way to deal with Agent, same as Feyd. 6-0
8) tomsloger
Boom // Bust / Bow of Nylea / Karn Liberated
I don't know quite what I mean by this, but this is such a tomsloger deck. I really like it. It's also my most interesting matchup.
On the play, tomsloger can get Bow down on 3, and then Boom every turn, or sometimes gain life and sometimes Boom. It's not quite obvious how it works out, so:
1.
1. Agent
2. go to 18, hit me to 17, play Boom leaving me at 0 lands.
2. agent attack, 15. 1 land.
3. go to 13, hit me to 14, Bow.
3. agent attack, 10. 2 lands.
4. go to 8, hit me to 11, gain 3 to 11
4. agent attack, 8. 3 lands.
5. go to 6, Bow back Boom, hit me to 8, Boom me to 1 land.
5. agent attack, 3. 2 lands.
6. go to 1, hit me to 5, take a land and Karn, exiling Agent.
6. Take Karn, exile Bow, draw.
I could not play lands after the initial Boom, but then tomsloger is free to gain life instead of recurring Boom.
However, I might have a really cool line:
same up through tomsloger's 3
3. take bow and shuffle 2 lands
4. go to 16, hit me to 14, boom me to 0 lands
4. play 2 lands to 2 lands, 1 in library. take agent and hit to 13.
5. go to 11, hit me to 11, has to boom again or i go off.
5. play 2 lands to 2 lands, 0 in library. take bow and shuffle.
6. go to 9, hit me to 8. Take land and Karn exiles Agent.
6. Take Karn and exile Bow, draw. Oh well.
On the play I assume I get there, but let's make sure:
1. Agent
1. 18, 17.
2. 15.
2. 13, 14. Boom me to 0.
3. 10. 1 land.
3. 8, 11. Gain to 11.
4. 8. 2 lands.
4. 6, 8. Gain to 9.
5. 6. 3 lands.
5. 4, 5. Must Boom.
6. 3. 2 lands.
6. 1. Eesh. I don't quite make it.
2-2
9) WhammeWhamme
Mental Misstep / Synod Sanctum / Urza's Factory
Sanctum wrecks me like all the other colorless self-removal. 0-6
WhammWhamme, you don't have to be shy about it, I can accept that you beat me :p
Why can't you just play Nodes, and then play Serene once Familiar is dead?
Regarding 3v5, Nodes doesn't target, and can hit Titan just fine.
Another problem with the existing analyses is that Titan's ETB trigger is mandatory, so on the play, it's either hitting itself or Island. Here's how I think it goes, it's pretty surprising:
1. Island, Titan tapping Island
1. Nodes, gg
.. ok so Titan has to hit itself.
1. Titan tapping itself, Island.
1. Lush on Island. It must get Swan Song'd, or Mogg immediately loses to Nodes again.
2. Titan doesn't untap. The 2/2 isn't worth wasting Snare on, though, we need that for Nodes.
2. Nodes
3. Swing tapping Swan token, 14. Bounce Nodes.
3. Nodes
4. Swing tapping Swan token, 8.
4. Swan token dies to Nodes.
5. Swing tapping Paradise, 2.
5. Titan dies to Nodes, Feyd wins.
1. Titan tapping itself, Island.
1. Nodes, Swan Song'd.
2. Titan doesn't untap. The 2/2 isn't worth wasting Snare on, though.
2. Remembrance Nodes (and attack for 2 since it'll get tapped anyway, but it doesn't matter)
3. Swing tapping Swan token, 14.
3. Draw Remembrance. It's bad to play Doll, because it will never block and gets in the way of Nodes. So does Swan, so let's Snare that.
4. Swing tapping Paradise, which, tragically, does not bounce itself immediately, forcing Titan to tap Island. Oh well. 8.
4. Draw and play Nodes.
5. Snare Nodes, swing tapping Paradise. 2
5. Play Nodes, but it's too late.
1. Island
1. Lush on Island, Swan Song
2. Titan tapping token.
2. Nodes
3. Swing tapping token, 14. Snare Nodes.
3. Nodes.
4. Swing tapping token, 8.
4. Nodes kills token.
5. Swing tapping whatever, 2.
5. Nodes kill titan, Feyd eventually wins.
1. Nothing
1. Doll (must play it eventually or accept draw)
2. Titan tapping Doll, must play Island now or lose to nodes - bounce - nodes with no opportunity for Song.
2. Lush on Island. Song.
3. Swing tapping token, 14.
3. Nodes. Heap untaps.
4. Swing tapping Heap, 8. Bounce Nodes.
4. Nodes. Token untaps.
5. Swing tapping token, 2.
5. Nodes finally triggers. Sac Heap targeting Song to get it out of the way of Nodes. If Feyd had a land in upkeep, e could also Snare the token and make Nodes hit Titan. But e doesn't, and it's too late!
so that looks like 2-2 to me.
Fatestitcher / Judge's Familiar / Lion's Eye Diamond / Mox Sapphire / Progenitus / Shelldock Isle
vs
1) Anachronity :: Ley it on the Line
Aura of Silence / Leyline of Lifeforce / Leyline of Sanctity / Leyline of the Void / Sanctum Prelate / Serra's Sanctum
On the draw I obviously can’t do anything. On the play, I could get t2 Proggy through Leyline of the Void, because I choose which RE to apply and I don’t rely on Fatestitcher because of Sapphire. However, Judge’s Familiar unfortunately says "instant or sorcery" and not "noncreasture" like I thought for a sec, so Aura blows up or locks out Sapphire.
Well, I tried to build around Leyline, and it almost worked!
0-6
2) CalvinSchwa
Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Mental Misstep / Mindswipe / Vedalken Orrery
On the draw I don’t get to do anything.
On the play I get Proggy and you can’t do anything.
3-3
3) Feyd_Ruin :: Bad.dec – Journey into the Unseen
Heap Doll / Lush Growth / Porphyry Nodes / Serene Remembrance / Undiscovered Paradise / Void Snare
Well! Those sure are some Magic cards!
On my play Familiar staves off Nodes just long enough. On your play, you can’t just stick Nodes, because I’ll pass and it’ll die. So you can only play Doll to stop t1 Prog. However, if I then try to go off at all, Shelldock becomes Lush, and then I just have Familiar, which is not nearly enough.
3-3
4) knobbodi
Anvil of Bogardan / Dust Bowl / Grove of the Burnwillows / Mountain / Punishing Fire / Ratchet Bomb
This deck doesn’t do anything on turn 1, which seems pretty bad in this format.
6-0
5) Mogg
Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Frost Titan / Island / Swan Song / Void Snare
On my play, you have no answer to t1 Proggy. On your play, I get to try Sapphire.
If you Song it, I go off. If you don’t, I get Familiar. Then I can try to go off. You want to Song LED, but to pay for Familiar you have to give up Titan.Swan Song can't counter artifacts. Thanks Anachronicicity!6-0
7) WhammeWhamme
Auriok Salvagers / Black Lotus / Black Lotus / Foil / Island / Legacy Weapon
Yay, a Foil! I built specifically to survive Foil and Leyline of the Void on the play, at least I get to do one of 'em!
On my play you don’t have mana for Familiar, so it stops Foil, so I win. On Your play, you have plenty of mana for Familiar, so you counter LED and I lose.
3-3
6 | 0 3 3 6 6 X 3 | 18 | 300
Anachronicity, I think you have 350 points, not 300 – it looks like you divided by players rather than opponents.
Land Rule means you can choose any basic land each turn - there are 11 to choose from: the normal 5, the snow-covered Basics, and Wastes.
There's no reason we can't have consistent rules. There's also no reason why those cards ought to be able to exile entire infinite libraries, but if we really want them to, making the libraries finite seems like the only reasonable way. I mean I guess we could also just errata the cards to say "any number or all cards with the same name", but if we're going to errata cards to do things they don't do, it seems like we might as well buff all the other cards anyone thinks are cool that aren't otherwise good enough to see play, too.
Format suggestion: Scripted
5CH LR
For each card submitted, the submitter specifies a turn of the game with respect to the submitting player, e.g. "Black Lotus (My T1)", or "Wood Elemental (Opponent's T86)".
All submitted cards have "Play this card and activate its activated abilities only on the specified turn."