MTG Salvation

Quote from Etherium Sage »

Quote from mikeyG »

Quote from Etherium Sage »

Ob Nixilis Reignited is a fair planeswalker with decent effects, but the problem with him is that he's very "boring". This criticism was leveled at the card long before now. His first two effects are just generic black things that just tick the checkboxes for what a "good" planeswalker card is supposed to do (give you advantage and protect itself), and those are what you'd expect to use him for 99% of the time. His ultimate is a bit more interesting though.

Interesting, thank you. I wasn't following things when that card came out, I never knew it was considered boring. I use it a bunch for budget utility and he serves that role well,I guess I just never thought about how exciting the card is. Hmm.

One thing to consider here is that planeswalker characters need to have their cards do things that differentiate themselves from the others, or they'll eventually look too similar to tell apart.

Liliana, outside of one card, does necromancer things. Sorin usually has drain effects or creates Vampire tokens, because he's a vampire. Vraska routinely kills things because she's a Gorgon assassin.

Ob Nixilis Reignited was so generic that it didn't really establish what his cards are supposed to do as a rule of thumb.

I dunno, isn't his thing that he hates everyone/everything and spite drives him more often than not? I kinda see how that feeds everything he does. He punishes people for asking him for help, he slaughters, and he hurts opponents for trying to gain the upper hand. And he enjoys that suffering. It's loose, sure, but I got a sense for who Ob was from that card when I didn't really know much about him as a character. All four of his cards have that theme running through them.

I won't argue that Reignited is an exciting card, but I think it does give a good sense of who he is even if none of the abilities are particularly iconic.

Quote from Etherium Sage »

Ob Nixilis Reignited is a fair planeswalker with decent effects, but the problem with him is that he's very "boring". This criticism was leveled at the card long before now. His first two effects are just generic black things that just tick the checkboxes for what a "good" planeswalker card is supposed to do (give you advantage and protect itself), and those are what you'd expect to use him for 99% of the time. His ultimate is a bit more interesting though.

Interesting, thank you. I wasn't following things when that card came out, I never knew it was considered boring. I use it a bunch for budget utility and he serves that role well,I guess I just never thought about how exciting the card is. Hmm.

Quote from Jivanmukta »

I'll take 100 of that Tezzeret over 1 Vivien/Ob Nix in terms of design.

I've seen a few references to Ob Nix being a bad design in the last day. Is there something I'm missing? I have never seen that criticism before the Core spoilers.

Quote from Creedmoor »

An interesting idea, which might be useful in your set design, would be to instead change your mechanics to fit color pairs instead of factions. This would show a blending of Alara factions. For example, Supreme could be a RED/GREEN ability, as it blends perfectly with the powerful beasts of Naya as equally as it does the powerful Dragons of Jund. This would allow people to play a Red Green deck, or a Naya deck, or a Jund Deck... and still get the advantages of "Supreme". This idea also works fairly well with your Award ability as a hybrid between Esper and Bant in BLUE/WHITE, although I might change the name to better fit the crossover.

I get why that is an organic step, but I think it's a mistake for a set billed as a return to Alara to not utilize the trait most players would remember Alara for. It also steps on the toes of what players expect from a set taking place on Ravnica. Some planes have specific mechanical aspects baked into their DNA for most players. Mirrodin is artifact world, Lorwyn is tribal, Innistrad has double-sided cards, Kamigawa is Spirits and Legends, Ravnica is centred on two-color guilds, Alara was the world of five tri-colored demi-planes. Alara shifting mechanical focus to color pairs is encroaching on Ravnica's mechanical space.

Yes, as the Alara block progressed there was bleeding between Shards, but I think if any return to Alara did not have significant focus on the five tri-colored factions, it would be a big issue for the set. I think it's also important to demonstrate how those five worlds evolved after reunifying, not doing so would also be foolish, but in the balance a return to a plane needs to also be a return to what players found mechanically memorable in the first place.

Quote from itazuranarisu »

TBH I forgot all about the Dryad. Definitely vulnernable, but interesting. I'm thinking Brawl might also be a place for saproling shenanigans.



Edit: I also have to wonder if we may get Thallids in the new Core set since they have the leeway to do a lot of reprints. I'd definitely love to play a half decent Thallid deck with Slimefoot and the new lord.

I think they'll be pushing Brawl and seeding sets with necessary tools and supports. Saprolings are a common recurring theme, I'd be shocked if we didn't see supports for a potential Slimefoot Brawl deck in the new Core set. Even a Dreampod Druid, Tukatongue Thallid, Jade Mage or Sprout reprint may help. None of them are powerhouses on their own, but in the context of a Brawl deck for Slimefoot, they could be support. The Druid, in particular, is interesting in light of the RW Dominaria theme of Auras (and Equipment) and the speculated return to Theros in the fall.

Quote from Etherium Sage »

My main concern with an Alara return is that the shards probably should have some color bleed to indicate that the plane has reunified. You see that to some extent with Alara Reborn and some of the Alaran characters that came out in the Commander sets.

I think you're correct, but I think that can be accomplished through mechanical synergy. Award making artifact tokens that Utilize can tap, for example. Bloodthirst making creatures larger for Supreme. I think that if there's some clever inter-Shard mechanical synergy, it would convey the feeling of the Shards coexisting and bleeding into one another.

In that vein, the glaring issue is Morbid, as it has zero synergy with the Shard mechanics adjacent to Grixis. It's a perfectly goof mechanic, with a good flavor for Grixis. Perhaps a subtheme within Grixis cards about sacrificing permanents and/or remove counters to generate effects? Like the flavor of harvesting vis to power magic. That feeds into Morbid, and creates that synergy with Esper and Jund.

Naya and Bant's overlap is relatively narrow, but with the right card design and support from both Shards, attacking with one creature that gets boosted by Award will help boost Supreme for combat tricks and second main phase stuff. I think that synergy would need a bit of encouragement via card choices and design to feel on par with other Shard pair synergies. Flavor choices will help sell that, as well as the bleed in general.

Quote from itazuranarisu »

Quote from mikeyG »

Quote from itazuranarisu »

Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.

Hahaha, is that sarcasm? Or are you speaking specifically to a particular format? I think the prevalence of the theme at common and uncommon with actually useful cards could make it a potential G/b draft archetype. If nothing else, Slimefoot and their thallid buds will inspire EDH decks without question, with the DOM offerings for the theme giving those decks a lot of framework to build off of.

What makes you think the Saproling theme won't make a splash?

Oh yeah, for sure in draft. I guess I'm just having trouble seeing an actual Saproling / Thallid tribe deck for constructed. Though I should probably also temper my expectations since it's rare for a tribal deck to be super competitive.

Oh that's totally fair. I don't know that I see a deck like that taking traditional competitive environments by storm, either.

Edit: I was hoping for something similar to original Thallids. Something to make a stream of tokens that isn't a 7 drop.

Tendershoot Dryad probably isn't going to make a splash or make this deck competitive, but I think it's a fair supplier of Saprolings. More vulnerable than Verdant Force, but cheaper and provides a big boost for the swarm rather quickly. Perhaps Gwb with Annointed Procession? I doubt that's enough to really make it in T2, but casual constructed is probably all over it.

Edit #2: I actually really do like Slimefoot conceptually. I was excited to see that ... it? ... was a member of the Weatherlight crew. Even kinda made me want to make a myconid character in Pathfinder or D&D.

It's fun, I enjoy the character design. Its card is good times.

Quote from itazuranarisu »

Overall, pretty neat. I'm a little disappointed that I really can't see a Saproling/Thallid deck emerging from what's in the set.

Hahaha, is that sarcasm? Or are you speaking specifically to a particular format? I think the prevalence of the theme at common and uncommon with actually useful cards could make it a potential G/b draft archetype. If nothing else, Slimefoot and their thallid buds will inspire EDH decks without question, with the DOM offerings for the theme giving those decks a lot of framework to build off of.

What makes you think the Saproling theme won't make a splash?

It's a very fungal morning, it seems. All the Saproling cards are a great throwback to the Burst days, and this trick is exceptional. With lords out, they can take out attackers. With a Slimefoot out, they can chump and Blood Tithe. With the Saproling Enchantment, you'll get at least a bit of life and a card. There's a lot of ways to get flexible value out of those little stinkers.

I don't care for the card itself, but that callback to a novel from almost two decades ago is awesome.

In decks it was designed for, it'll be useful. I can think of a few situations it could be useful, but I'm not sure I'd ever run it.

The flavor text is great, though. The flavor team is killing it.

Yissssss, a Kavu!!! It's kinda funny to me that I quit the game when Kavu Titan was considered amazing, and I came back in time to get this. Haha!!!

This is good for the cost regardless of which mode you choose, which is noteworthy since a lot of kicker cards are slightly overcosted in one or both of their modes because you pay for the flexibility. This is pushed a bit, which really highlights how the power of creatures has evolved in almost 20 years.

I love the mechanical focus on kicker!!! The Druid is a nice addition, I'm definitely going to make an RG Kicker deck for casual EDH with Hallar at the helm.

Quote from robnixilis »

Tiro of Meletis is spot on. So sick of this cringey forced diversity! Amonkhet had people of Middle Eastern and African appearance with no one (besides the Gatewatch) looking white and I was totally fine with it --it helps flesh out a world by building off of the real-world source material. Jamuraa is on Dominaria, fine, but keep the Jamuraans in Jamuraa and keep the Benalish in Benalia and keep the Otarians in Otaria. Mirage and Visions were awesome sets with mostly black people depicted in them. I loved the art from that era because it not only was more interesting to look at when compared to the blurry digitally altered crap they put out today, but all of the cards together created the feel of an Africa-inspired magical realm. One "different" character appearing amongst the "norm" every now and then is not the end of the world (ex. an Umezawa appearing in Dominaria), but this multi-culti b.s. Wizards is touting these days is gross. Forced diversity sucks. White people are great. Black people are great. Asian people are great. etc. etc. etc. No one is better than anyone else. But stop trying to mix them together! In the words of Muhammad Ali "Look at nature. Red birds stick with red birds. Blue birds stick with blue birds. Crows stick with crows." I'm not going to change my view on it.

Is your argument seriously "keep the races apart"? You get that Dominaria is inherently a multicultural plane, right? And that it is completely realistic to depict the plane's diversity in the cards for a set heralding the return to the plane?

Quote from Buffsam89 »

And to complete that rhetorical circle, “White people get blamed for everything”.

I mean, I'm not one to self-flagellate or blindly generalize, but sometimes the shoe fits.

Anywho, I personally don’t care. But, there is a point to be made about just doing things for the sake of diversity.

In my work, I do presentations in schools related to marginalized subgroups in schools (specifically LGBTQ2S+ youth, but our presentations do branch out to cover other forms of 'otherness' found in schools). One of the areas that I sometimes present on is representation in the media, so it's a topic I have some degree of passion about. Representation shifts attitudes and normalizes the 'other'. It's vital for marginalized folk to see themselves in the media they consume (it's linked to self-esteem, undoing feelings of isolation, etc), and it's just as important that everyone else is exposed to nuanced examples of those marginalized folks. It leads to a society that is more comfortable with people after that increased representation.

I'd argue that diversity for diversity's sake (presuming that the characters/cultures/settings/etc involved are depicted at least neutrally and not stereotypically) is more a good thing than bad. If the representation isn't meant for you, you'll likely not really even notice (like I expect the reaction to Benalish Marshall to end up being), but for the folks it matters to it can be a pretty nice thing.

Now, after all that said, im not a lore-buff. From what I’ve gathered, those opposed to the “change” seem to have their concerns rooted specifically in that aspect of it, and not the “Hey, I’m Racist” kind of concern. It’s a valid criticism if it doesn’t match up with the lore. However, those on that side of the criticism need to accept an honest “story follow-up” if made available explaining the change.

You gave it a valiant effort, but I'm skeptical that that's honestly the motivation for some folks. Firstly, as many posters have explored, the lore side of things is very easy to understand without a specific word from on high to explain it. After upheaval (and I don't think anyone can argue Dominaria hasn't had a lot of that), people immigrate, it's not unrealistic (it has been depicted in the game a few times now) and I don't think requires an explanaton. Secondly, I think if you have to that far on a limb to justify your complaints about depictions of diverse people, your issue is much larger than one card.

Quote from idSurge »

Is it too much to ask for our Knights to have a Euro-centric look? Apparently so.

Yeah, it's super unfortunate how all of our knights can't be white like we think of them. Nevermind the fact that many knights were in fact black (well, Moors, so not just black) and the fantasy version you're thinking of is inherently whitewashed. If I'm not mistaken, there are Arthurian legends of black knights as well.

I get your point, I just don't sympathize with it.

Quote from Tiro of Meletis »

Quote from Negator_402 »

Some representation is fine. Forced, propaganda style overrepresentation is not fine. Black people are not a third of MTG players.

I agree. Lately, it's been nothing but that. Don't even get me started on the female thing either. It's just suffocating. It's the worst when we have black people on planes like Theros and Innistrad, instead of Greek and German. Do I expect white or black or non-Japanese people on Kamigawa? No. Keep it accurate and true to source material and feeling natural and stop pushing an agenda. It's annoying. And frankly, I do care about the race depicted because frankly, I find white men to be the most attractive. I don't really care who this offends, we all have our type. And I tend to gravitate toward artwork I find attractive, so I do pay attention to the gender and race/appearance. I'm a Vorthos, of course I would. It's inaccurate to claim no one perceives these details. Representation isn't tainting anything. Disingenuous agenda pushing is just nauseating when it's overload like it has been.

Wow.

Quote from Negator_402 »

The problem is that we are literally not allowed to feel more attracted/drawn to the woman depicted in Baneslayer Angel than we are in Lyra. To say so, despite being white ourselves, would be likely called racist.

But you get how those racial preferences are inherently influenced by racial biases, right? It does not mean a person is a racist, simply that they are being influenced by race-based biases. No one's saying you can't feel that way, but we can be intellectually honest about what it is.