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Magic Market Index for June 8th, 2018
 
Ravnica: The Living Guildpact
 
Magic Market Index for June 1st, 2018
  • posted a message on [Primer] Ironworks Combo
    Nice to see Nass get another good finish with the same deck.

    Kind of vindicates my decision over a year ago to get on this deck.

    Maybe we'll get a few articles and some new insight to help the deck develop and improve. That's always a nice bonus when someone gets a decent finish with a fringe deck.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Woo! KCI got there at GP vegas!

    Super interesting to have a unique deck like that back in the format, but in a way which doesn't have the same issues that the old 'eggs' decks had (an important difference, as the old second sunrise decks were awful for tournament play)

    Now it's had a couple of high profile finishes at the hands of one very determined dude, maybe it will settle slightly higher in the meta than "really really fringe" which is where it's currently at.

    This is all round great stuff. More diversity for the win, and congrats to Nass for taking what is surely a pet deck at this point to another great finish.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    There are some versions out there that try that sort of thing with like Nissa, Steward of Elements and then like Courser of Kruphix and Utopia Sprawl but every stream always ends with how it isn't worth it..
    Like the mana ramp seems nice on paper being able to combo a turn earlier or so but 80% of the time it ends in dead draws


    indeed.

    adding ramp reduces your ability to interact. you become a deck that races to the combo in order to beat other strategies, but probably aren't as good at it as, say, Ad Nauseam.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Quote from zcowan »
    It's tough because I think Collective Brutality is literally the perfect card right now in the meta as it does so many useful things however it's huge drawback is it's escalate cost of discarding cards from hand... That's why I think white is favorable because a lot of the sideboard options don't have as big of set backs.
    Plus you get access to like Terminus and that is just unbeatable for a lot of decks..

    WHY DON"T WE JUST GO ESPER! lol


    I just went red instead.
    Pyroclasm for the go wide decks, a mixed suite of counters (including a counterflux) for spell based decks, a keranos for grindy matches and against everything else we're pretty favoured anyway. Thing in the ice goes a long way.

    I also considered running bolts but haven't got quite that far yet. Would probably replace gigadrowses if I did, but that's hypothetical.

    Ancestral vision is good in this build. My list is broadly the same as I've posted previously. If you can't find it, I'll repost it for you no probs.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from shadowsaotome »
    It is a lot of fun to bring new and/or odd things to the table to mix it up. I love surprising my opponents with things they aren't familiar with, and I've even had some folks thank me for showing them cards and synergies they hadn't seen before. Of course, some people don't appreciate getting beaten by stuff they're unfamiliar with, and I experienced my first actual table flip last week. The guilty party was banned from the store, and I wish we had it on video. This guy, playing Mono G Tron, lost his marbles after losing 2-0 to my Faeries deck. He first showed signs of anger when I countered a turn 3 Karn in game 1, but both games he lost to Bitterblossom tokens. That being said, most players are very respectful, even when the salt flows.


    haha, sounds like something out of a comedy sketch.

    Who does that!?

    anyway I'm liking the state of modern at the moment. personal opinion entirely, of course, but i'm also basing it on the types of decks that are able to carve out a niche or a good preformance right now.

    If I can genuinely survey my extensive Modern collection and roster of dumb combo decks and say "yeah, I think GW Value-Town is a pretty good choice for my next tournament" I think we've got to be in a good spot. Haha =D
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Primer] Ironworks Combo
    Quote from Thunderbird »
    A side note, it seems like people assume any list not running whir is a Matt Nass build. While Nass did a lot for the deck, his main innovation is grove of the burnwillows, streamlining the sideboard to Green and Red with galvanic blast and guttural response. The rest of the shell has been around almost since trawler was released. I think that a “Nass Build” implies sticking to R/G list. I’m not trying to downplay Matt Nass’ success, he has done a lot for the deck, but just wanted to point out that there are more than just “whir builds” and “Nass builds”


    I was using it as shorthand. My take on Nass' innovation was his inclusion of buried ruin, and taking the deck away from the sanctum/hangarback engine towards a more combo-y affair with spellbomb. Before he got success with that build, I genuinely hadn't seen anyone running a list quite like it. Similar, sure, but until recently most people were on the emrakul plan. When I say a "Nass build" I'm referring to a list which wins by recurring spellbomb and utilises buried ruin fairly heavily. Most of the rest of the deck is fairly universal, and i saw and played with Grove since the deck first flew onto the scene with scrap trawler. I can't recall anyone citing Nass as a reason for running Grove more than a year ago when the deck started to gain traction on the fringes of modern, or when it finished at the top tables of a team-GP (can't confirm but pretty sure that list ran Grove too)
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    Yeah. Even if the result is 'no bueno' it's still worth discussing. The criticisms and points made so far are all valid and I appreciate the time taken to respond.

    My gut feeling is that it could be a one-of in certain builds. The ability to go sort of "hard infinite" is definitely new, and unexplored territory for this deck. I'm not done considering the ramifications of that one aspect yet, so haven't really formed an opinion either way. 7 mana is a lot though, that much is clear and a definite mark against it as an inclusion.

    Keep up the chatter guys, glad to have you on board.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Taking Turns
    I am not suggesting it's an automatic include or even decent, but the new instant speed time warp for 7 mana should probably form part of the general discussion. I can think of a few instances where having an instant option like this (that shuffles back in no less!) could be really useful.

    It may mean a bit of a tweak here and there, or it may never actually work out as an option, but i like the possibilities enabled by this new card being printed. =)
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on GWx Vizier Company
    Quote from taopaipai8 »
    @purklefluff Your idea is to fit the devoted combo into a kiki combo? Is more difficult than the kitchen's combo, and if you put the lightning helix and some resto angels your coco gets worse.

    What's your idea of a list?


    Well not exactly. If I dropped black and lost viscera seer I'd probably move into red as the splash colour. I'd look at leveraging eternal witness a bit more heavily alongside bolts and similar. It drop down on viziers but i'd go up on other useful one-ofs like knight of the reliquary, courser of kruphix, tireless tracker etc. I'd also look at running 1x resto angel. Kiki was an afterthought rather than a true deck building direction but it's possible that it would be worth running (unclear, but at the very least it wouldn't be an embarrassing choice). Importantly I'd just push the deck more towards a grindy value deck with a combo option rather than a combo deck with a grindy backup plan.

    That's just me though. I'm also looking at very seriously trying todd Stevens' value-town deck which looks fantastic, although it's worth noting it doesn't play chord or any pieces of the combo, so it's a different beast altogether.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on GWx Vizier Company
    Quote from Ageless127 »
    Quote from purklefluff »
    Quote from Ageless127 »
    What are everybody's thoughts on this one? Seems pretty good


    I like it, but I'm not sure we want it.

    What's critical is what it could possibly replace, and whether it's worth dropping anything for this effect.

    It's basically a worse lead the stampede, but on a body. It's a nice way to generate additional value off a coco and see ten cards instead of six. That's cool. But is it worth the slot? Seems tenuous?

    I think it will compete for Rallier. Thinking of going just GW, since I played the Abzan version over the weekend in GP CPH side events and never comboed off with Finks in 18 rounds!


    So on the finks combo:

    There's one solid reason to keep it in and that's redundancy. If you run vizier and the only other card that interacts with it favourably is druid, then you are reducing your efficacy and consistency overall. That pushes you towards a scenario where you run less viziers (because alone, they suck) and you aim to assemble the combo by casting chord or company to get there. Kind of like coco elves running 1x vizier.

    By running finks, you have another card that interacts favourably with vizier and makes the card more worthwhile to run as a playset. An opener with finks and vizier is 2/3 of the way towards an infinite combo, whereas (for sake of argument, if you dropped the finks combo from the deck) a hand of vizier and anything else would be medium-power garbage beatdown.

    The black splash to accommodate viscera seer is minimal and not too painful. It allows additional sideboard tech from sin collector, kambal, orzhov pontiff, abrupt decay and my favourite bit of nasty tech these days; liliana, The last hope.

    Im not saying straight GW can't work. I am suggesting though, that losing the finks combo definitely pushes you towards dropping down on vizier. By itself, it's a two mana do-nothing.

    Another point of note; you say you haven't assembled the finks combo in some arbitrarily large amount of matches. However there's something important to consider. Without the combo you likely wouldn't be running maindeck finks. How many grindy games have you won because you were able to loop, recur and reset a finks or two? Whether you elected to dive on the combo or not, the pieces themselves are useful.
    Finally, I also share your experience and most of the time don't take play-lines which lead me to the finks combo. That's a matter or choice though. One could definitely push for assembling the viscera seer finks combo nearly every game if one wanted to. It's just that infinite life isn't always as definitive as a million damage to the face from a walking ballista. I purposefully take lines towards the devoted druid angle and often ignore the finks combo unless I absolutely need to gain a bunch of life at instant speed. It's a backup, and most of the time I choose to go for the primary wincon instead. That doesn't necessarily mean that the backup is worthless though. I've definitely won games where a quick finks combo bamboozled an opponent out of nowhere, at instant speed.

    If we're dropping black altogether, I'm highly incentivised to go Naya colours (RGW) and drop down on the number of viziers. I'd also want to consider morphing the deck more towards a value-driven combo deck in the vein of Kiki-Chord. I'd start running maindeck paths, maybe a couple bolt/lightning helix and i'd spring for one or two resto angel to flicker my witnesses (although in limited numbers to ensure that collected company would still be a solid include). Todd Stevens runs a single avacyn and resto angel isn't too far removed that it couldn't work. I may even consider running a single Kiki. That direction has a proven track record and could legitimately be a solid contender in modern. It wouldn't take much to tweak the deck in that direction and still retain the core principles and game-plan of the deck.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on GWx Vizier Company
    Quote from Ageless127 »
    What are everybody's thoughts on this one? Seems pretty good


    I like it, but I'm not sure we want it.

    What's critical is what it could possibly replace, and whether it's worth dropping anything for this effect.

    It's basically a worse lead the stampede, but on a body. It's a nice way to generate additional value off a coco and see ten cards instead of six. That's cool. But is it worth the slot? Seems tenuous?
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Kiki Chord / Kiki Company / Kiki Evolution


    Put this together and was a bit surprised as I think it's 61 cards?

    Still, it's a fun list =)

    Of note:

    I'm seeing a bunch of good 4-mana targets for eldritch evolution but no evolution in the deck. It definitely feels like this build was designed with that card in mind but then it was removed at the last minute. I played with the deck last night and it was actually very good, but i do feel you'd benefit strongly from one or two evolution (I ran one in the sideboard to bring in where the toolbox hate-creatures were more important).

    Chainwhirler was good though. As was magus of the moon.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Ironworks Combo
    I just received a playset of whir of invention through the mail.

    I realise the whir builds of this deck may have fallen by the wayside since matt nass got a good finish, but anyone able to offer an experience-based comparison or gut feeling on whether the whir variant is still worth trying?

    (I picked them up to build a thopter-sword deck but it occurred to me that I might want to try it here as well)

    I imagine it's worth playing 1x ensnaring bridge in a whir build. Seems like a no brainer.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on GWx Vizier Company
    Quote from Kizzel »
    I see most builds run 2 Noble Hierchs. Are they needed? I can not afford them and was wondering what you would play instead.


    Like most decks, by subbing out the best possible variant of an effect for a weaker version, you'll lose some games as a result. Not many, but occasionally it'll happen. The extra power given in combat does come up frequently, and isn't just a theoretical bonus.

    That said, despite losing a certain percentage from making a swap to (for example) avacyn's pilgrim, you would still be getting part of the functionality just fine, which is the ability to ramp with a 1cmc mana dork.

    In essence you'll still have the deck and be able to win games, and the difference will be small but noticeable. There's a very good reason why we run Noble hierarch and never any other kind of mana dork as our secondary non-bird option.

    And for what it's worth I run three. After a year or more playing the deck it became clear that 7 dorks is better than 6
    =)
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Global series card image gallery and deck list up
    Quote from RedGauntlet »
    Why bother making Draft chaft in these?


    Imagine you are a brand new player and one of the surefire ways you can acquire a few new cards is to scoop up someone else's draft chaff or just open a booster or two.

    Now imagine that this product was where you started. With the power level of these products, it makes cracking a random booster exciting. Even the commons would be useful. The rares would be outlandish, even. Buying any off-the-shelf booster would be a fun way to upgrade and experiment, rather than an inefficient waste of your money.

    They judged this perfectly for beginners and casuals. It means those piles of spare chaff that get shared around to new players would be exciting and bristling with potential upgrades, instead of useless garbage. It's pitched just right.

    If this product was all optimised, laden with powerful rares, necessarily you'd see everything else get less exciting or interesting because your starting point is already much better.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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