My fave part of this spell is that the sacrifice is part of the effect, not the cost. Great spell.
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Jun 11, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)
At the spot where Cataracts rests, it's often acceptable to "pay" the extra 1 (6::5) since it is fixing any mana, including lumps of colourless mana, into any combination of mana you desire. Though if we were speaking of, say, Crystal Quarry, I'd agree with that being a more rigid combination of mana.
Quote from Pokken »Tangos are exceptional in 2-color decks but I only run them in 3 if I am designed in such a way as to allow lots of basics (see my Inalla deck with 15 basics in a 3-color deck because it's basically a 2 color deck).
Admittedly, my include of tangos is because I own the expedition, so I'd prefer to get it's use worth. But having a bunch of fetchable duals also happens to be quite strong.
Quote from Rumpy5897 »I'm liking the mana base skeleton 3drinks has going on. So far the only reception Reflecting Pool has gotten in-thread was negative, but that thing is a house and I've shoed it into every single 2+ colour thing I ever built. True, it may not get you your missing colours, but it does tap for anything you already have available. And with a setup this elaborate, what you'll end up having is mostly anything you may desire.
Pool is fantastic when you run greedy colour commitments. Like, say, if you want to cast Grand Abolisher and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker in the same deck. It's not without flaws - it never fixes colours, only replicates existing ones, but that kind of power, always coming untapped and providing 3 colours at once is a great feature.
Jun 11, 2019Re: Cavern. If you need to resolve your commander every game, then you need to play Cavern. Full stop. Regardless if the commander is integral or not to the strategy.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Re: Basics count. Settle the Wreckage existing is a major reason for my increased count, but it really has to do with Tainted Pact (one of each basic, one of each snow basic) and keeping the maximum resistance to Wasteland effects while still making Pact good.
Re: Tangos. If you don't have a spell on t1 you can safely fetch it on the person to your right's end step. If you don't, you can fetch it later. Sometimes it even comes in untapped anyway. It's pretty safe with a low opportunity provided you know how to fetch, though given not everyone has access to my mana I concede.
Re: Strip Mine. Colourless mana can be bad, but you're gonna use that to dissuade you from the best denial lands? That's a bit of a fallacy, though if you're that concerned you should still play at least Ancient Tomb. Or just run those lands through Arcum's Astrolabe to get your colours (which every deck should be playing due to it's ease of use and QoL upgrade). Hell if you're that worried about colourless, don't forget you have Cascading Cataracts to help with that issue.
Jun 11, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from 75chan »Exotic Orchard
This has become a staple 3+ color card for me. YMMV but there's so many rainbowlands or pseudorainbowlands in the format that this almost always taps for whatever I want it to, or at least 2+ of my colors. I don't need it to manafix in 2C so it's not worth the mild risk but I never not run it in 3+C anymore. I'm not sure what better alternatives you are reffering to. Fetches+Shocks? True rainbowlands? The new battlebond stuff? Horizon lands? Sure, but you'll run out of those eventually
Will you? Assuming 3c;
Fetch x10 (9 + Vista)
Bicycle x1-2 (pending shard or wedge)
Tango x1-2 (pending shard or wedge)
Basic x6 - 7 (2x each + Wastes)
You're at 34 - 37 here pending wedge or shard already. Rather than that Orchard, you'd likely add a couple of utility lands - Maze of Ith, Thawing Glaciers, Myriad Landscape, Volrath's Stronghold, Blast Zone, Scavenging Grounds, Academy Ruins, Heliod's Hall, Cradle, High Market/Phyrexian Tower, Tower of the Magistrate........... and that's not even all of them. There's also a few other cycles of lands such as Painlands, Battlebonds, Checklands, Canopy lands, and a few other odds and ends.
Exotic Orchard never even crossed my mind, although it's a great land when you're on a budget.
Jun 10, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from DirkGently »
I'm curious - what's the motivation to play a wastes? Eldrazi colorless-specific costs?Quote from 3drinks »(and I play seven basics in 3c FWIW, three basics, three snow basics, and a wastes, optimally).
I'm also kind of curious why you'd play half-snow-covered, but I guess there are no real downsides...and you're less vulnerable to wake of destruction? Or to take advantage of someone else's extraplanar lens regardless if they're playing snow or not? Or is there some other motivation I haven't thought of?
The biggest reason is you can play Tainted Pact infalliably and still have maximum protection vs wasteland effects and other big time nonbasic hate. It's also one more land you can fetch when you get Path to Exile'd or Settle the Wreckage'd.
Jun 10, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from hyalopterouslemur »Well, since the card is a land, the first question is, is it worth trading in a basic land? It might be, if you're in 0-2 colors, maybe even 3 colors if you don't have that many cards costing three mana of one color (or two mana each of two separate colors), but above that? Not so much. (And yes, you should use at least some basic lands even in five-color decks.)
The second question is much more complicated. Is it worth playing just on its own merits, not as something extra you sometimes get? I would say control decks are probably the only time it is. No other deck archetype depends on holding cards in your hand. It's irrelevant for aggro or combo, and it actively works against you if you're playing something like reanimator or dredge
In single colour? Nah, you're trying to maximize basic count for Gauntlets in an attempt to make up for the shortcomings of single colour. Tower hurts both your ability to make coloured mana on time, as well as works against said Gauntlet effect you wouldn't want to miss out on.
In three colour? Especially without green, you're surely going to want to devote most of those slots to fixing (and I play seven basics in 3c FWIW, three basics, three snow basics, and a wastes, optimally). You might have Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Cavern of Souls, is R-Tower really going to make the cut here over these lands? Highly unlikely. This scenario becomes more exasperated in 4c and 5c (which should at the very least play five basics - one of each) plus your duals, fetches, and you're barely gonna fit in a Strip Mine, let alone anything else.
This reserves R-Tower for 2c decks, but only if said deck wants to and has a need to hold such a copious amount of cards as well as the capacity to draw said cards. And if they can, why are they not casting them? If there's no reason then the deck trying to hold cards is playing inefficiently and the deck in question likely still doesn't need a Tower as much as the player needs to learn why they're holding cards when they shouldn't. Or, more accurately, the player needs to learn better resource management such that they're not pissing away cards or justifying an unneeded colourless land to help mitigate their resource mismanagement.
Quote from FunkyDragon »This analysis is a bit too reductive to be accurate. "Holding excess cards without playing them" is not the same thing as holding excess cards to play them at the right time. It may be win-more in the majority of decks, but in other decks, it is keep-from-losing.
How so? Is it really keep-from-losing when you're staring at 1UG when you have a Counterspell to survive to the next turn that you can't use vs my Pyroclasm? How many protective spells does Feather, the Redeemed really need to hold? How many times will your opponents burn cards through protection on Feather, once they've already seen the answer? In this case, holding a bunch of protection spells are unneeded since they're doing the same thing and people aren't casting into your tricks once they know you have it.
Jun 9, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)Reliquary Tower is an excellent card. Plenty of decks draw too many cards, and even more are rewarded for building a critical mass of resources safely in hand rather than play out into the format with 1000 board wipes a game and very few Thoughtseizes. I think anyone suggesting it isn't an excellent card is overcompensating to counterbalance the people who thoughtlessly throw it into any deck, and I don't think that's a particularly productive viewpoint.
tstorm, i like ya, you're good people, but you're alone on this mountaintop, man. Pokken is right, just because n00b players will sit with 20 cards in hand dragging out games because of their own decision paralysis doesn't mean Tower is a worthy slot. Bad cards do not make excuses that turn bad deck building and player skill into good. Again, hoarding cards in hand is a resource that is not being utilized in a meaningful way (see also, why Arc-Slogger is a good card or why Tainted Pact is a phenomenal tutour - because they provide an effect in exchange for a resource that is not actually iMPACTing the game), once you get beyond the max natural hand size (and even before that point, sometimes). And even then, your excess gluttony of resources is only protected until the first Wasteland comes up? Or Blood Moon. Still doesn't seem that safe of an investment when compared to the other options also vulnerable to the same level of disruption.
You know what's better? Tower of the Magistrate, and that is a card that is a nonbasic Wastes in nine of every ten games. But that one game where it's a difference maker, that one clutch play is better than any perceived benefit from R-Tower.
Jun 9, 2019Holding excess cards without playing them is inefficient resource adjudication. This is a "resource" that is not actually doing anything to help you win. No, just drawing thirty doesn't win on it's own unless you found your combo...in which case you don't need the Tower because you just won. Unless you have an arbitrarily large amount of mana, you're not casting them in one turn either. And if you did have this mana, why didn't you just win (blue sun zenith)?Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Its win-more. Simple, common greed. Casual, n00b bait at it's finest.
Jun 8, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from Igzex »If there's a time I'd use this on an opponent's spell, it would be something they tapped out for with intentions to win on the spot like Tooth and Nail, Time Stretch, and Boundless Realms. But yeah it's more for cheating self exile clauses in most cases, meaning it has the potential to be profoundly annoying. Just as Narset would like it apparently going by the cards that represent her.
Torment of Hailfire comes to mind...........
Jun 6, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)
I understand that. But still, losing out on a thread boasting a half million views and a decade of discussion. Yes, I can (and will) be pasting the link to this thread in the new one), but...y'know what I mean?
I'm most of the way through my promised 2 year tenure on Random Card of the Day, so I could try and pass the torch a little early. And if I do keep charge of that, do we carry over the list of every card done for the last 5-6 years or start fresh. It'd be kind of nice to start that list of random cards over with the links to the discussions embedded into the list. And I don't know about the random deck thread at all. Don't really want to carry that list over and link everyone back to defunct forums twice a week.
If you want to get out of RCotD, I volunteer to take on that mantle. As for the deck thread, on the new site maybe just start the page with each deck that's been pulled and then continue from there (I assume you have an off-site mechanism for deck determination anyway, such as random.org).
Jun 6, 2019Lotta people in this thread doing an awful lotta devaluing of Inferno Titan. Really? Since when is an arc lightning on-demand bad? When compared to making a pair of vanilla bears? Then you add the firebreathing to the mix versus who ever's bright idea it was to put deathtouch on a 6/6 like that's relevant...people far over-value Grave Tits, that's all there is to it.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
I always called him Package Titan because once you notice the package, as much as you try you just can't look away. Also a fave Rite of Rep target though not as genius as with Yosei but it is what it is.
Jun 6, 2019Posted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from toctheyounger77 »Quote from Rumpy5897 »The easiest way to carry this out would be to add the primer tag to any MTGS primers that migrate over
You’re not wrong in that respect, but we don’t know how things are going to look at the other end, and it’ll mean that existing primer curators will need to save their code, migrate over and let us know where their new thread is, once it’s at a level the curator is happy with (based on the chance that it may not translate exactly the same, we just don’t know yet).
At any rate, in essence it’s simple, we just want to make sure it’s a smooth transition and that we can make the move as seamless as it can be for all involved.
I've got my code saved verbatim in a Google docs file. I'd advise others do the same as its just a matter of a mere c/p job.
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