It actually, is, yes. I came across it in the Kaalia discord. I'm still theory crafting it in a wishclaw talisman brew with Gerrard/2nd Sunrise and shallow graves. Welders and memory jars of course.
It's spicy. But a bit overwhelming, so I'm taking my time before I introduce it to the primer.
So over the past week and a half, I've stumbled onto a breakthrough with this commander that brings her up to the cDH levels, no it's not STAX or prison. It's combo, and it revolves around Razaketh, the Foulblooded...
Some day I'm going to get around to combining this primer with my Zenith Kaalia primer to make this a total hub for all things Kaalia in general. Idk if this is something that carries any real genuine interest though in this era of social media killing traditional forums.
Kaalia is where I see this shining most, but I don't think it's good enough at the seven slot. He already has double strike, so on the one trigger he's only buffing Kaalia, which isn't enough...but if you have one other angel, demon, or dragon out, consistently when you drop this, that just might push it over the edge.
Interestingly, I think this thing's value is in a blink shell. Ironically, new Kaalia comes to mind since you have Astral Slide to repeat it, and Heartless Summoning to cheat it faster...
a lot of the more busted cards that have become staples in every single deck of whatever color(s) were designed with edh in mind. it turned the format into a nuclear arms race and i think thats actually where the problem lies as a whole. why its shifted so heavily away from battlecruiser style magic.
Imagine thinking an eternal format where games are determined by mana superiority instead of any other type of metric wasn't already doomed to become an arms race. It's always been this way, you just never realized it.
personally, i do really miss the days where nothing was designed with commander in mind. where we had to scour databases and collections to find neat synergies and old cards rather than just shove whatever new hotness from whatever new set into every deck.
Times change, formats evolve for the times, stop being a hipster and listen to the words of one Paul Levesque;
"In life, really, you have only two choices. To adapt...or perish."
The real problem with EDH / Commander lies in players essentially running "playsets" of functionally identical cards in their decks to where they greatly minimize their chances of drawing bad cards whether it's through deck thinning or from search abilities. The Singleton aspect of the format is really just an illusion to get players thinking that the odds of someone at the table being able to combo off on turn 5 or earlier isn't likely when it actually is. When it does happen someone at the table is likely to get salty about it unless the pod proceeds to scoop phase. This is a part of the reason why Fetchlands became a problem in Standard and Modern because they made mana bases far too consistent in combination with the Shocklands.
Man, get the hell outta here with this "blame fetchlands" bull*****. This isn't 1996 anymore, we're not fixing our mana with painlands and city of brass. And shaming the use of functional reprints? Why? Like we should be jamming rend flesh and devour in shadow as go to removals a near decade latre, times have to change to keep players invested. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking how blessed I am that I'm given more powerful cards to play so I have to put fewer questionable cards in my decks. I can't with this idea, what the hell. If you want to live in the nostalgia days, go build a white border deck. I know I have - and it's still consistent enough, if you know where to look.
I just wanted to stop in and say how glad I am to see thet this thread is still active and that 3drinks is still here. Back when I was in grad school and had half a dozen close friends who all played EDH almost daily, Kaalia was the first 75% deck that I made, and this thread and 3drinks' input on how to build Kaalia for 1v1 vs. multiplayer were huge influences on that build. All those friends have long since moved away, I've had 2 kids, and with those and other factors I haven't played paper magic in years. Some recently-printed legends piqued my interest, though, so I thought I'd just poke my head back in and, like I said, it warms my heart to find this thread still here. I'd of been super sad if it had fallen into disrepair.
Well there's a name I haven't seen in years. Good to see you're doing well!
Yes, Kaalia is still close to my heart, even as i reach what i believe to be her apex - the Lilliana's Contract combo. I also developed the new Kaalia under an Astral Slide package, over on mtgnexus. Speaking of nexus, this ou s where I've mostly migrated over to, it's like a rebirth of mtgsally without the spaghetti code built on an adware framework that is this site. You should swing by, get discussion pumping again.
I don`t have much data as I play maybe twice a month in a multiplayer setting and maybe a few times 1v1 online.
My opinion on Backdraft Hellkite is that it seems vulnerable and slow. Say you cheat him with Kaalia, he does nothing that turn and you hope he survives till the next turn which is not very likely seeing how much creature removal there is edh. Even if you meet optimal conditions to hard cast him for 5 with a haste enabler in play there`s is a good chance you`re either tapped out or close to being tapped out so you`re only flashbacking one low casting cost card which is basically what Chandra, Acolyte of Flame does anyway.
Hmm. Okay, so in the optimal condition where you hardcast dragon, attack, and maybe rebuy a one drop (plowshares, we'll say) you got in for 5 and exiled their best guy for 3WRR which isn't a terrible rate, though it isn't good either. On the other hand, with Chandra and casting that same plowshares in that turn, you're paying 1WRR - you save two mana and lose the five point swing. That's on the first turn. Assuming they would stick around, chandra is gonna cast one more </= 3 spell and then go away while the dragon is going to past in flames which clearly is way better.
My verdict is the dragon clearly has way more upside than chandra, and is better any turn after the first, and is usually better although not strictly so on the first, than chandra. Chandra is also always 1RR (really four, since you're not casting this without rebuying something) while Dragon is sometimes free with Kaalia, and can be okay if not exciting on it's own. It's also drawing some fire off Kaalia, or at least should as it's a much more scary threat than my 2/2 flyer.
Hmm. The power level for walkers to get into this deck is incredibly high (where looking at Liliana of the Veil levels and geddon Ajani V, plus sometimes Nahiri). So I'm a bit skeptical of new walkers that remain mostly untested. At first glance, it appears to play similarly to Recoup, but with only flashing back cmc </= 3.
Compare to dragon that is sometimes free (this always costs 3), and let's us flashback any in our grave and isn't limited to one spell. If that sounds like I'm being a bit harsh, I apologize. Do you have any data to contribute about the proposed card that would suggest it to perform better than a repeating past in flames? I'd love to analyze it.
So I misevaluated Backdraft Hellkite. Turns out getting a free four cmc sorcery on attacks is pretty good. So uhhh, yeah, despite the non-synergy with contract, I think that's a bit too strong to resist.
Finally got the money to buy the pre-con deck for Kaalia of the Vast and I got Sephara and New Kaalia coming in. I can't wait to become public enemy #1 at the table
You bought the stock Heavenly Inferno?! I always thought that was a bit too much of a markup for what the deck contained. Wish I'd have known, I'd point you towards the starter "white border" Kaalia. At least for the investment, you'd get a stronger, more cohesive deck (and most of the cost comes from the tutour suite/abu duals. without those, the whole list is practically pennies). Anyway, welcome aboard, and feel free to follow my continued dedication to the deck over on @mtgnexus!
Honestly, the thought of having something playable and ready for future upgrades is nice to know
I do dislike the lack of low cost plays in the deck (something I want to fix) I want to play later today to get a better feel for it.
I wish the stock Heavenly Inferno actually was able to keep it's original pieces as you begin optimizing the Kaalia deck. But noooooo, instead they put in multi-kicker guys and a high drop that only works if you cast it. Way to work in anti-synergy, R&D.
Still, it brings me such joy to see more new Kaalia pilots coming into the format.
Finally got the money to buy the pre-con deck for Kaalia of the Vast and I got Sephara and New Kaalia coming in. I can't wait to become public enemy #1 at the table
You bought the stock Heavenly Inferno?! I always thought that was a bit too much of a markup for what the deck contained. Wish I'd have known, I'd point you towards the starter "white border" Kaalia. At least for the investment, you'd get a stronger, more cohesive deck (and most of the cost comes from the tutour suite/abu duals. without those, the whole list is practically pennies). Anyway, welcome aboard, and feel free to follow my continued dedication to the deck over on @mtgnexus!
1x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Canyon Slough
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Command Tower
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Flooded Strand
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Glimmervoid
1x Godless Shrine
1x Great Furnace
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Polluted Delta
1x Prismatic Vista
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Scrubland
1x Smoldering Marsh
1x Snow-Covered Mountain
1x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Spire of Industry
1x Strip Mine
1x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Aurelia's Fury
1x Corpse Dance
1x Dismember
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Fire Covenant
1x Flame Sweep
1x Insidious Dreams
1x Orim's Chant
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Second Sunrise
1x Shallow Grave
1x Silence
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Thrill of Possibility
1x Through the Breach
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Cut / Ribbons
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Faithless Looting
1x Gamble
1x Grim Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Kuldotha Rebirth
1x Night's Whisper
1x Ransack the Lab
1x Sevinne's Reclamation
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Animate Dead
1x Dance of the Dead
1x Land TaxIT
1x Necromancy
1x Phyrexian Reclamation
1x Sneak Attack
1x Underworld Breach
1x Kaalia of the Vast
1x Angel of Despair
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Demonlord Belzenlok
1x Dockside Extortionist
1x Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero
1x Goblin Welder
1x Grand Abolisher
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Razaketh, the Foulblooded
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Shivan Hellkite
1x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Arcane Signet
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Opal
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Conviction
1x Talisman of Hierarchy
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Wishclaw Talisman
Deckstats: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/kaalia-of-the-vast-cdh/
It's spicy. But a bit overwhelming, so I'm taking my time before I introduce it to the primer.
Kaalia is where I see this shining most, but I don't think it's good enough at the seven slot. He already has double strike, so on the one trigger he's only buffing Kaalia, which isn't enough...but if you have one other angel, demon, or dragon out, consistently when you drop this, that just might push it over the edge.
Interestingly, I think this thing's value is in a blink shell. Ironically, new Kaalia comes to mind since you have Astral Slide to repeat it, and Heartless Summoning to cheat it faster...
Imagine thinking an eternal format where games are determined by mana superiority instead of any other type of metric wasn't already doomed to become an arms race. It's always been this way, you just never realized it.
Times change, formats evolve for the times, stop being a hipster and listen to the words of one Paul Levesque;
"In life, really, you have only two choices. To adapt...or perish."
Man, get the hell outta here with this "blame fetchlands" bull*****. This isn't 1996 anymore, we're not fixing our mana with painlands and city of brass. And shaming the use of functional reprints? Why? Like we should be jamming rend flesh and devour in shadow as go to removals a near decade latre, times have to change to keep players invested. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking how blessed I am that I'm given more powerful cards to play so I have to put fewer questionable cards in my decks. I can't with this idea, what the hell. If you want to live in the nostalgia days, go build a white border deck. I know I have - and it's still consistent enough, if you know where to look.
Well there's a name I haven't seen in years. Good to see you're doing well!
Yes, Kaalia is still close to my heart, even as i reach what i believe to be her apex - the Lilliana's Contract combo. I also developed the new Kaalia under an Astral Slide package, over on mtgnexus. Speaking of nexus, this ou s where I've mostly migrated over to, it's like a rebirth of mtgsally without the spaghetti code built on an adware framework that is this site. You should swing by, get discussion pumping again.
Hmm. Okay, so in the optimal condition where you hardcast dragon, attack, and maybe rebuy a one drop (plowshares, we'll say) you got in for 5 and exiled their best guy for 3WRR which isn't a terrible rate, though it isn't good either. On the other hand, with Chandra and casting that same plowshares in that turn, you're paying 1WRR - you save two mana and lose the five point swing. That's on the first turn. Assuming they would stick around, chandra is gonna cast one more </= 3 spell and then go away while the dragon is going to past in flames which clearly is way better.
My verdict is the dragon clearly has way more upside than chandra, and is better any turn after the first, and is usually better although not strictly so on the first, than chandra. Chandra is also always 1RR (really four, since you're not casting this without rebuying something) while Dragon is sometimes free with Kaalia, and can be okay if not exciting on it's own. It's also drawing some fire off Kaalia, or at least should as it's a much more scary threat than my 2/2 flyer.
Compare to dragon that is sometimes free (this always costs 3), and let's us flashback any in our grave and isn't limited to one spell. If that sounds like I'm being a bit harsh, I apologize. Do you have any data to contribute about the proposed card that would suggest it to perform better than a repeating past in flames? I'd love to analyze it.
Not strictly better. This guy can create a 11 point swing or just annihilate a board with pinpoint strikes. I'd say it's role is different enough.
And, hey, it retailed for under a buck so what's the harm?
It doesn't. Iona hasn't been strong enough to play in six years.
I wish the stock Heavenly Inferno actually was able to keep it's original pieces as you begin optimizing the Kaalia deck. But noooooo, instead they put in multi-kicker guys and a high drop that only works if you cast it. Way to work in anti-synergy, R&D.
Still, it brings me such joy to see more new Kaalia pilots coming into the format.
This might pique your interest then.
The best thing about demons is having your very own dedicated I win card.
You bought the stock Heavenly Inferno?! I always thought that was a bit too much of a markup for what the deck contained. Wish I'd have known, I'd point you towards the starter "white border" Kaalia. At least for the investment, you'd get a stronger, more cohesive deck (and most of the cost comes from the tutour suite/abu duals. without those, the whole list is practically pennies). Anyway, welcome aboard, and feel free to follow my continued dedication to the deck over on @mtgnexus!