Quote from VoxxenI like this one. As if anyone here is responsible for coming up with "Hey, MLD is really really good in EDH!" It's not original, it's not clever, it's just extremely and obviously powerful. A child could figure out that making it so your opponent can't play the game is good. If I go to an EDH tournament with prizes, I'll probably bring Zur w/'geddon. I'm not going to subject people I like to that ****.
I also like the fact that both you and Justice have now made the asinine assumption that I don't know how to build good decks or play the game.
Fun, challenge and predictability are concepts we know on this side of the MLD fence too man.
Armageddon slows the game down to an excruciating crawl if it doesn't immediately end it. We've all fought out of that mire at least a few times, hell on Friday I won an extremely painful and drawn-out 4-man after a t5 Armageddon out of the guy with the only creature on the board (Stoneforge w/SoFaI). It was absolutely the right play given the board (I had Food Chain in play ready to cast Prossh next turn with Anger in hand.) Nobody found that game fun. Nobody found that game interesting. Everyone, including the guy who played 'geddon, plays all the 'geddons, thinks 'geddon is a fair way to counteract the great Ramp bogeyman, was grumbling after it was over.
I will say that it is challenging to beat properly utilized MLD, but it is also a challenge to beat properly utilized INSERT COMPETITIVE STRATEGY HERE.
I understand that more available acceptable strategies = more variety in games, I really do, but if it isn't fun for anyone I don't want to see it in a non-tournament game.
All -I- want from the format is good times between players.
-Combo can be good times as long as it isn't too fast or consistent.
-Stax... can be good times on the rare occasion, but is usually just masturbatory.
-Ramp is good times as long as it isn't linear and people run answers, of which there is a great deal of both quantity and quality.
-Aggro is good times as long as it is built and piloted correctly and has a way to refill, otherwise it craps out and becomes a non-entity.
-Grindy value-town decks are good times as long as they actually have a way to kill quickly once they have it locked up.
-Control is good times the same way.
-Grouphug is good times as long as it doesn't make the game take forever.
-Grouphate is good times in most cases.
-Chaos is good times for a few turns, but then it gets boring.
-MLD is almost never good times.
I know it sucks when people seem to hate your favorite strategies. I have empathy for you on that, I honestly do. Cawblade was my absolute favorite standard era, because the deck was so powerful, flexible and rewarding of tight play. Some people would give you such unmitigated crap for playing it though.
I've literally had terrible players playing random brews say to my face, after losing to their own incompetence and nothing else, that they wished the game was more about skill than money.
I feel you, really. Doesn't change facts though.
Quote from VoxxenWhat is so hard about packing counterspells/removal? Interacting in the standard fashion is the most consistent way to fight ramp
With all those slots dedicated to accelerating, they run out of cards eventually.
Thank you for helping my argument by claiming that ramp is some crazy unstoppable thing without MLD though!
I would actually like to talk about this. I understand that Ruination and its ilk are watered down Armageddons with more potential for breaking symmetry, but I feel like the popular thought that it "punishes greedy manabases" is fallacious.
What exactly is a greedy manabase? Where do you draw the line? I mean in a 3-color deck you have 3 duals, 3 shocks, 3+ fetches, command tower, triland, maybe 3 karoos and probably a half dozen or more utility lands. That is half the manabase right there, and if you add any other lesser duals it is even more skewed. That doesn't seem terribly unreasonable, but would still get wrecked by ruination. Thoughts?
This is my last response to you and similar nonsense.
I don't have to deal with childish arguments because I don't play Calvin ball magic with people who make the rules as they go along.
It's a great place where any thing allowed legal goes and we have fun while not having to deal with the ridged self imposed ideology some players create and enforce. This is the magic I play, in real life with people. I'm not arguing magic at this point, but defending myself and my friends who have an amazing time because we don't act like we were promised something and didn't get it during a game of magic.
You don't like MLD, stax, combo, aggro, sol ring, etc.... That's fine. But stop sticking your dick into every discussion about it for no constructive reason at all.
Some people want to discuss LEGAL cards and strategies you may not like to make THEIR games better. You don't like the topic of discussion, then stay out.
This tread was happily trucking along fine discussing the merits of a card. Then you farted in for no reason to argue against it based on nothing but; "it ruins fun." You're not contributing and you're trying to force your ideals like a religious protester in front of a exotic cake shop.
The discussion doesn't need it or want it.
There's absolutely no reason for you to drag your cross into a thread about people constructively discussing MLD, so for my sake and every one else's, stop.
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Right? I play it for the Shatter, but the fact it can be a Tormod's Crypt as well as dish out the last few points of damage makes it all gravy. 'Course, that's Commander and not Modern. >_>
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R-Charm is so good, it's my favourite silver bullet in Kaalia.
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That's a fair assessment. Dismember after all is a card, and it can be played by any deck and with any colour of mana, so thus Magus is more vulnerable.
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Ignorance of the rule is not an excuse to break the rule. First offense is a warning, second offense is a game loss. Sanctioned or not, rules are here to be followed. Without rules there is only anarchy. And, I'm not going to spend my months/years of labouring to make a strong deck fall to the wayside because some youngster thought it was too hard to follow any rules that he/she didn't understand. If you don't get it, you ask someone who does. If you still don't get it, then maybe Magic isn't the game for you.
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Even Terramorphic and Evolving are cheap commons and come up in budget builds, and that's just the beginning of the shuffles any deck could be expected to see. I'm never sad to have this card.
Don't forget your Enlightened also finds your Steel Hellkite and Defense Grid!
I know when I was playing both on MODO, I wasn't happy a lot of the time with Grim's three cmc. It was commonly a time walk in the first few turns of the game. (I replaced it when I finally got my Vampiric Tutor online).
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I would rank Enlightened > Grim > Gamble. Grim could be a better choice in some instances, but you can make Enlightened even stronger by playing enchantment based removal such as Oblivion Ring, Parallax Wave, or even Aura of Silence. So the choice between those two comes down to your specific build.
Chaos Warp & Unexpectedly Absent are both undoubtedly better than Path to Exile based on their versatility alone (as is Council's Judgment but I'm sure you know that one). Ideally though, I would play all three.
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They help to make sure his life total is odd so he can combo off with Hidetsugu x2.