I've played a little Edgar, and he's about as close to an early aggro commander as exists right now. This list looks reasonably familiar in that you're wanting to spam as many low costed vampires as you can as early as you can. The difference between this list and mine is probably a few grand in land base, tutors and Purphoros. I like the contamination idea, it's a pretty cool way to make sure Edgar is less of the glass cannon he is during the mid-late game.
I don't really have much in the way of recommendations, purely because this deck is almost entirely a superior version of mine. However, there's a couple of draw options that have done really well for me: Ad Nauseam and Minion's Murmurs. Both dig super deep, and the life loss from AN is mitigated by a bargain basement CMC for most of our critters.
There's not really much else I can suggest, but I'm interested as to the absence of things like Blood Artist, Cruel Celebrant, Vindictive Vampire et al. The latter I can understand for being a little pricey, but the first two are pretty great.
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- 3drinks
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Jun 16, 20191
toctheyounger77 posted a message on Random Deck Discussion: Closed for BusinessPosted in: Commander (EDH) -
Jun 16, 20191
tstorm823 posted a message on Random Deck Discussion: Closed for Business19th Deck:Posted in: Commander (EDH)
3drinks: Edgar Markov Swarmpires Contamination
It's swarmpires. It swarms you, but with vampires. And then contaminates you, with contamination. Swarmpires contamination. I don't know how many points I give this title, but I don't think it matters. The goal here is quite explicitly to lock your opponents out of non-black mana with Contamination and never have to sacrifice the enchantment because Edgar gives you an unstoppable river of 1/1 sac fodder. It's an aggressive vampire tribal shell that by virtue of its design gets to pretty freely play a card that's like 4 copies of Iona, Shield of Emeria for 3 mana. -
Jun 15, 20192
cyberium_neo posted a message on Random Card of the Final Day: Maelstrom NexusPosted in: Commander (EDH)
I like creature reviving and draw a card at instant speed. If anything, this can counter a commander.
That said, this is suppose to be a Selfie Command. -
Jun 13, 20191
Pokken posted a message on End of an EraCan we get a mobile option to not go to the first page of a thread only pleasePosted in: Commander (EDH)
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Jun 12, 2019
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toctheyounger77 posted a message on End of an EraYeah, I'm really unsure what to do. My threads are all here, and you can't really begrudge people for staying for an audience/community they already have. But I also really like the concept of what Cryo and Airi are offering, so...what do you do?Posted in: Commander (EDH)
To be fair I've talked some absolute BS on my deck threads in the past, so there's something appealing in starting over and looking a lot more impressive on the second pass
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Jun 9, 2019
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Pokken posted a message on Reliquary TowerPosted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from tstorm823 »Reliquary Tower is an excellent card. Plenty of decks draw too many cards, and even more are rewarded for building a critical mass of resources safely in hand rather than play out into the format with 1000 board wipes a game and very few Thoughtseizes. I think anyone suggesting it isn't an excellent card is overcompensating to counterbalance the people who thoughtlessly throw it into any deck, and I don't think that's a particularly productive viewpoint.
No, we're not. It's a mediocre card that does an OK thing in some decks and is played a lot very incorrectly. In general people play way too many colorless lands in EDH and this do-nothing is stealthily costing people games by preventing them from casting their spells constantly.
While in an extremely casual meta people will sit by while someone durdles and holds a grip of 20 cards with a reliquary tower, that's not the type of thing that decent players let slide. You leave your board with low commitment you're the punching bag and you've got to start spending those cards to survive.
Almost everyone would be better off cutting it for either another color source or a better colorless land. I would go so far as to say these days that that is probably true of all decks, but that's just my opinion - there're so many dang things you can play in the colorless slot these days. It'd be a really good idea to re-assess.
Back when I was a new player and I played with new players, games went 50 turns with everyone durdling and spinning around doing nothing. But games just do not go that long anymore and people have stopped refusing to attack, so games go faster. As such it's a rare meta that gets to sit around amassing cards like that. And if you pass the turn with 20 cards you're rightly going to be public enemy #1.
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At the most fundamental level, if your deck has Reliquary tower but does not have Ancient Tomb you are wrong. And that's a pretty comical number of decks, even with AT being reprinted and fairly cheap.
Then after that you have Blast Zone which is absurdly strong for a colorless land, and basically always better than reliquary tower. Then Scavenger grounds.
So if you have reliquary tower and not one of those three you're just making a bad decision. It's fine, people make lots of questionable deckbuilding decisions for a variety of reasons and that's totally OK (budget, preference, etc.).
But defending it and calling it "excellent" is just not a very good assessment in my opinion. It's OK at best. -
Jun 11, 2019
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ilovesaprolings posted a message on Random Card of the Final Day: Maelstrom NexusPosted in: Commander (EDH) -
Jun 10, 2019
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Pokken posted a message on Reliquary TowerPosted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from tstorm823 »
Jin Gitaxias still isn't allowed to play signets, but that's beside the point.
I have Reliquary Tower in 2 decks. Zedruu, which is color hungry enough to often fizzle a second colorless (from when I played Sol Ring), has a pile of Howling Mines to break the symmetry on, tries to play everything at instant speed when possible, and often wins in turns that involve untapping my lands a couple dozen times making Ancient Tomb probably just stop producing mana at some point. The second deck I have is Taigam, Sidisi's Hand, my other deck that intends to play mostly on opponents turn, a relatively controlling deck. But it also has Mind's Eye and Null Profusion and Mind Over Matter in it, so yes, no maximum hand size is a seriously powerful effect there too.
I used to play Sasaya, Orochi Ascendant for a bit. There's a deck that seriously wouldn't care about Ancient Tomb, but got way easier to do its thing without a maximum hand size. On the subject of Kamigawa flip cards, Jushi Apprentice gets better. I had Hokori, Dust Drinker for a long time, and while that did have both Reliquary Tower and Ancient Tomb, I basically never wanted to draw Ancient Tomb after turns 1 and 2. I had a giant pile of artifact ramp in that deck and used my one land untap to get a white mana almost every time, and could go over 7 cards in hand for obvious reasons. (One of the most oppressive things about Hokori is that if people's only way of dealng with it is a board wipe, if it had Lightning Greaves on or something, you get to untap before that player, play out a bunch of cards real fast, and then recast Hokori.)
Do you seriously believe that these well thought out and tested uses of Reliquary Tower are wrong?
(Jin can play 2 mana rocks of various sizes so please let's not get stuck on pedantry)
Yes, absolutely. I think most people are bad at assessing the benefits of things like RT. Even some good players and decent deckbuilders will go "Remembr that time RT let me keep those 5 extra cards?" And forget about the time it inconvenienced their sequencing.
When Ancient Tomb is wrong, which it is in some very few decks, Scavenger Grounds and Blast Zone are both better. In a control shell with low color commitments, being able to blow out your opponent's graveyard or play a pernicious deed in the land slot are both better than maybe getting to hold extra cards.
While there are some decks that benefit from holding the extra cards, it's by far the exception. Most of those decks would gain more over the long haul from having a more stable manabase. Most manabases I see in EDH are very questionable. It's usually the last place people focus.
Slow, controlly decks make some sense to me at wanting it I guess, but there are so many cards that will get you out of a jam that you can run in those slots that I'd be more inclined toward that.
RT displays the "winmore fallacy" in EDH pretty well too; people are more inclined to play cards that are good in winning situations than in losing situations. Do you want a card you can topdeck that helps you close out a game when you're in great position (>7 cards) or do you want a card that you can topdeck when you have 3 cards and the graveyard guy is about to go off?
Anyway, don't intend any of this to come off as condescending. Dirk and OneRing made a couple good points about RT and places where it could be played.
But I stand 100% by my thesis that it's an OK card that's grossly overplayed and most people should re-think it with the printing of more powerful colorless lands in the last few years. Calling it an Excellent card is a stretch. It's Excellent in so few situations that it does a disservice to actually good cards to describe it that way
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Jun 4, 20192
d0su posted a message on London Mulligan in CommanderPosted in: Commander (EDH)
I used math. Excel does Hypergeometric distributions, and I calculated the likelihood of your opening hand containing Sol Ring or Mana Crypt with either method, assuming you were intentionally going to six or five just to find it. I also took a stab at calculating if the hand was "playable" or not, which I assumed meant containing at least 2 lands. The spreadsheets were on my old computer so I don't have it in front of me, but I could recreate it if you think it would be useful to the discussion.Quote from MRHblue »What data did you use to determine 1st turn Sol Ring was less prevalent with PP?
What I can safely say is that if you are willing to go to 5 strictly to find Sol Ring or Mana Crypt, the "First-Free London" mulligan rule is more likely to find them (44.6%) than the old First-Free mulligan (40.8%), Partial Paris (33.2%), or even First-Free Partial Paris (44.3%). And now, your resulting 5-card hand also has a good chance of being decent in its own right since you basically get a 0-mana Faithless Looting tacked on.
So that's the reason for my hesitancy. Feel free to double-check my numbers because I'm just as fallible as anyone. -
Jun 3, 20194
benjameenbear posted a message on Where to go, after MtGSalvation?The criticisms about the Primer Committee that have been mentioned are fair, and will be taken into strong consideration on the new site. As darrenhabib mentioned, the goal of the Primer Committee is to create a positive experience for general readers of the Primer, to encourage Primer submissions, and to approve Primer submissions.Posted in: Commander (EDH)
Some changes that have already occurred since my tenure in the Primer Committee, which post-dates after 3drinks' Primer submission(s), DirkGently's submission, and Rumpy's submission(s):
- The Primer Committee has created and approved a Primer template that has a significant number of coding tags already built in, including the Table of Contents tags/coding, box tags, anchor tags, etc. This is the template that we've provided to several of our applicants and the goal of it was to relieve the applicant of learning the intricacies of BBCoding (of which I'm still not a master of myself). I believe that we'll do something similar on the new site so that an applicant has something to work off of before submitting their thread for Primer status. Primer Template:
- We've had internal discussions about the key components we look for in a Primer application and have compiled an internal list of requirements that we like to see. As we receive additional comments from users within the Commander forums and balance that against the feedback of the Admins, Mods, and Primer Committee members, we will perhaps be able to release a formal checklist of Primer requirements that a user can review before submitting a Primer for the official Primer tag. This should address another concern that has been legitimately brought up within this thread, that of unclear expectations of what constitutes "Primer Quality" threads. By establishing this kind of checklist alongside the Primer template, we should have a clear path forward for users to create a visually appealing Primer on their first try without having to devote hours in formatting and coding education.
- We've begun to optimize our review process internally so that it's systematized and efficient for the Committee itself. This should reduce the wait time that applicants experience when they submit a Primer for review and ensure that Primers are released to the general community in a timely manner, which will justify the time and energy spent to create a Primer in the first place.
- Finally, we've advocated strongly with the Admins and Mods to create Commander based content that will specifically feature the Primers that are approved. This will create a deterministic and real incentive for Primers to be created and to justify the QC process that the Primer Committee engages in. These articles will hopefully be approved on the new site and will be directly written by members of the Primer Committee/Primer owners themselves as a way to both showcase the work of the Primer applicant and drive traffic to the site. Consequently, there will be REAL standards that we have to measure up against since the Primers will potentially be featured on the site in formally written and approved articles that will generate traffic to the site.
Your Thread Title/Commander
Table of Contents
Introduction
Commander Analysis
Put Your Commander Analysis here. I like using the List tags to sort out Pros and Cons and/or Strengths/Weaknesses.
Current Decklist
Use the Deck Tags and Deck Builder Tool to create your decklist!
I also like to sort my decklists according to function and then separately according to card type, but that’s totally up to you.
Alternate Decklists
This is the part where you can put up Tribal decklists, Budget decklists, different power level decklists, whatever.
Remember to use the Deck tags!
Deck Philosophy
Talk about what your deck is trying to do on a broader scale and your own personal philosophy to Commander and your Primer.
Deck Strategy
This is where you should talk about the nuts and bolts of how your decklist plays out. What do you do in early turns of the game? What are some good opening hands?
What about the Mid-Game and Late-Game strategies?
Do you have a specific backup plan in case your primary strategy gets foiled?
This is where you would want to talk about these kinds of things.
Card Choice Discussion
This is a section where you talk about individual card choices that are located in your decklist. I also recommend you include other popular cards that other users may have used and include a brief description as to why/why not you’re running X card.
Opposing Commander Match-Ups
I personally enjoy reading about how Primers, and their respective strategies, match up against some of the more popular Commanders you play against IN YOUR PLAYGROUP or for Commander generally.
Credit & Thanks
I’m 100% confident that you didn’t build your Commander deck in a vacuum. This section is to give credit where it’s due and help you build a solid reputation.
Change Log
Lastly, it’s fun to keep track of how your deck has changed and evolved as you have as a player. It also gives readers an idea of what cards you’ve already tried out.
[/quote]
Sure, it might encourage a homogeneity of Primers but that's a separate issue (that I personally have no problem with, btw). By providing at least a template to applicants, we are reducing a significant complaint that has been presented within this thread, that of the time commitment of learning the coding required to make a visually appealing Primer. When I first submitted my Memnarch Primer, I too had to spend hours learning the coding tags of BBCode and it was laborious. My goal once I joined the Committee was to eliminate this concern as much as possible, hence the creation of the Primer template.
I have personally done real market research on why people don't like MTGSal as a platform. I've asked users on Discord and Facebook primarily, and my sample size was probably around 100 responses all said. The main attraction that regular users have to MTGSal as a site is because of the visually distinctive Primers and coding capabilities of the site, in addition to the improved community experience that MTGSal now offers (props to cryogen and other Mods for reducing the Flaming/Trolling that this site used to have). Because these are the qualities that differentiate MTGSal (and hopefully the new site) from other Commander platforms, it's important that the Commander Primers (which drive a majority of the traffic to this site in the first place) maintain that market-leading quality.
This is at least one valid justification of why the Primer Committee can appear to be "strict" about Primer submissions; the reasoning is directly related to what drives traffic to the Commander forums and MTGSal and thus ensured its continued existence. While this may have been conveyed poorly in the past and the criticisms of previous Committee members accordingly harsh, it was (usually) with the intent to ensure that the Primer, and consequently the site overall, received more views and traffic in comparison to its competitors. In the end, MTGSal is an asset and a business and the needs of the business have to come first. And the Primer Committee indirectly played a role in ensuring that the site was able to be viable by maintaining a quality Commander Primer that attracted users from a Google search about a specific Commander.
I realize that this site is closing its doors, and I'm legitimately sad to see it go for deeply personal reasons. It was a lifeline for me when I was getting sober 8.5 years ago because this site was so engaging for me, the community was so friendly, and the threads were usually well written. I've verbally committed to being a part of the new site that Feyd is building and will carry the collective suggestions brought up here to the new site. It's a chance to start over, which is a rare opportunity, and the Primer Committee members who have committed to being a part of the new site are an excellent group of people who are genuinely trying to help our applicants create the best Primer possible, both for quality reasons and for site specific reasons.
I hope that this novel of a post helps to convey the fact that the Mods and the Primer Committee actually hear and respond to the comments and suggestions that are mentioned. In order not to derail the thread further, I encourage everyone to either PM a member of the Primer Committee or create a separate thread so that we can keep track of the suggestions more efficiently.
Kindly,
benjameenbear
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Besides, I think when you see the initial incarnation I'm currently spinning my wheels on, you'll kick yourself that you missed the approach.
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-1 dismember, +1 generous gift
-1 lightning bolt, +1 skred
-1 mox diamond, +1 arcum's astrolabe
-1 defiler of souls, +1 rimescale dragon
-1 fellwar stone & chrome mox, +1 2 talismans
-1 REB/pyroblast, +1 on thin ice/gelid shackles (my friends I'll be seeing don't necessitate enough of a blue base to justify these)
-1 3 fastlands, +1 2 canopy lands & mouth of ronom.
-1 shadowborn demon, +1 adarkar valkyrie
-1 canyon slough, +1 tresserhorn sinks
Coldsteel Heart still couldn't make the cut but you know the talismans are in. I'd like to give Corrupted Grafstone another run because I think it's better than it appears.
I'd like to believe Smiting Helix is good but can't find a spot for a four cmc sorcery helix. Someone change my mind or concur with my assessment.
I'll also be testing Crucible of Worlds again with the added canopies and mouth to complement my fetchlands and enable strip lock. It might still be too slow, but there is an exponentially higher amount of intrinsic value now.
Suspecting Idyllic Tutour might be a cut. It's slow and for the same cmc as Grim, is far more limited. Though with the addition of snow enchant removals, it's stock may have risen and I'll need to re-evaluate.
So, as you can see I've gone ...ALL IN... on the snow idea, sans Dead of Winter which I think is suspect.
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Joke had 110% topicality. A+
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In single colour? Nah, you're trying to maximize basic count for Gauntlets in an attempt to make up for the shortcomings of single colour. Tower hurts both your ability to make coloured mana on time, as well as works against said Gauntlet effect you wouldn't want to miss out on.
In three colour? Especially without green, you're surely going to want to devote most of those slots to fixing (and I play seven basics in 3c FWIW, three basics, three snow basics, and a wastes, optimally). You might have Strip Mine, Wasteland, and Cavern of Souls, is R-Tower really going to make the cut here over these lands? Highly unlikely. This scenario becomes more exasperated in 4c and 5c (which should at the very least play five basics - one of each) plus your duals, fetches, and you're barely gonna fit in a Strip Mine, let alone anything else.
This reserves R-Tower for 2c decks, but only if said deck wants to and has a need to hold such a copious amount of cards as well as the capacity to draw said cards. And if they can, why are they not casting them? If there's no reason then the deck trying to hold cards is playing inefficiently and the deck in question likely still doesn't need a Tower as much as the player needs to learn why they're holding cards when they shouldn't. Or, more accurately, the player needs to learn better resource management such that they're not pissing away cards or justifying an unneeded colourless land to help mitigate their resource mismanagement.
How so? Is it really keep-from-losing when you're staring at 1UG when you have a Counterspell to survive to the next turn that you can't use vs my Pyroclasm? How many protective spells does Feather, the Redeemed really need to hold? How many times will your opponents burn cards through protection on Feather, once they've already seen the answer? In this case, holding a bunch of protection spells are unneeded since they're doing the same thing and people aren't casting into your tricks once they know you have it.
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tstorm, i like ya, you're good people, but you're alone on this mountaintop, man. Pokken is right, just because n00b players will sit with 20 cards in hand dragging out games because of their own decision paralysis doesn't mean Tower is a worthy slot. Bad cards do not make excuses that turn bad deck building and player skill into good. Again, hoarding cards in hand is a resource that is not being utilized in a meaningful way (see also, why Arc-Slogger is a good card or why Tainted Pact is a phenomenal tutour - because they provide an effect in exchange for a resource that is not actually iMPACTing the game), once you get beyond the max natural hand size (and even before that point, sometimes). And even then, your excess gluttony of resources is only protected until the first Wasteland comes up? Or Blood Moon. Still doesn't seem that safe of an investment when compared to the other options also vulnerable to the same level of disruption.
You know what's better? Tower of the Magistrate, and that is a card that is a nonbasic Wastes in nine of every ten games. But that one game where it's a difference maker, that one clutch play is better than any perceived benefit from R-Tower.
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Torment of Hailfire comes to mind...........
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Watched this hit an Expropriate three times in one game coming from a Kess deck. Needless to say my memories of it are not fond.........