True, 4 colors is tough to pull off, but why Grixis? Black and Red are really really weak when it comes to Allies.
Honestly, it just looks like Cruel Control with a few allies in it instead of an actual Ally deck.
TBH, you're mostly correct. I like a lot of the stuff that grixis has to offer, like Ultimatum, a plethora of it's removal spells(y halo thar Agony Warp) and I wanted to use Dbl Neg to hose Jund's cascade mechanic. *shrugs*
So I just took some of the "better" allies in those colours and made what looked like Grixis Allies Control.
I has a question. Why did you decide not to run White? From what I've seen, White has the strongest allies, namely Blademaster and Cleric. May just be a personal issue, but I find a big problem in the fact that you don't have a creature in the deck that costs less than 4.
True, I am choosing to forego the W, as it's really hard to get a good, stable, and reliable 4-colour mana base in this Standard. So I opted for the 3 colours as I have a little better fixing in these colours(it's easier to do), and I get some great control type kill cards to set up my board. Agony Warp is amazing, Terminate is Terminate, Double Negative gives Jund the finger, and Ultimatum is some sick card advantage.
That said, the SB could use some improvement, I think, but I couldn't think of anything better than the stuff I put in.
Hey guys, was just thinking of some possible uses for Allies while at work tonight, and I think I found something decent. Yeah, I'm talking UBR Allies! Wait, what? Grixis colours? Allow me to post a potential first draft list and let's discuss. Just let me say that Allies aren't fast. So trying to go aggro with them isn't gonna work. That leaves mid-range, control, and combo. I don't like mid-range, and combo doesn't seem very viable sans mini-combos in the deck(which is more "synergy" than "combos").
Now, some of those slots could be swapped out for similar cards, i.e. Negate for Double Negative. In my meta, I would run Double Negative main over Negate as I have a lot of Jund to deal with. Everything else looks fairly self-explanatory. Thoughts/feedback?
If anyone has any questions about card choices, just ask, I'd love to answer them.
3drinks is right on this. Your Arcum deck is not as optimal as it should be. crz87 has a very good primer on Arcum. I contributed a little bit but not as much as crz87. Here is the link to his deck list. I would start reading page one and go from there so you'll have a better understanding of what should be in an Arcum deck. Here is the link: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=169174
That's what the guys' name is. I couldn't remember for the life of me. Yeah, his list is pretty tight.
FTK is amazing--probably red's best creature (with nods to Welder and Lackey). Yes, Silvos is great and you should run him, but the Kavu should have a place here, too. I definitely prefer FTK to Ryusei, Mageta, and Spearbreaker.
Breaking Point seems really weak. I don't like to give my oppenents a choice of how my spell works. Also, given that EDH is multiplayer and everyone starts with 20 more life than normal, it's even weaker than in a normal game. Not a fan.
Cheers,
rant
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
You really think FTK is better than Ryusei? I mean, I know the Kavu is amazing and all; he rocks. I like the Spearbreaker here, as I run a lot of sweepers, and he protects all of my dudes for just 1 mana per guy. The deck ramps a ****-ton, so his 5GG cost isn't too hard to work around. Mageta is here for the same reason, he plays on more of my sweepers. I'll give FTK a shot over Ryusei.
I can agree with you on Breaking Point, I was briefly tossing around the idea of replacing it for O-Stone. It does seem to be rather weak, and my opponent will always choose the worse option for me(which will be the 6 damage, as it isn't that much in EDH). I think I'll make the switch to O-Stone.
There's another list on this board that uses Arcum to tinker up a prison lock. It is very efficient and wins fast. He can play Arcum nine out of ten times on turn 2. This is crucial because competitive decks in EDH rarely have an answer to him that fast.
I've thought for agood while about removing the Coat, I really do like the synergy with the Saprolings...but the last few times I've played this deck, I never even tried to drop it. Likewise, Seedguide is cool, but I have enough ramp, and most players will just find a way to exile him so I don't get the lands, or they just don't care coz they have board position. His replacement(the Slagwurm) has more "Oomph" and more board presence. Then for as awesome as the Kavu is, Silvos > Flametongue 'nuff said.
I'm back, and as if it wasn't obvious from my poll I made a few days ago about Silvos, Rogue Elemental vs Autumn Willow as a General, I want a mono-green EDH. I'm tired of getting bad looks when I play my mono-black control build with Baron Sengir. I want something fun, and what's more fun than smashing face with big dudes?
Now, the deck isn't complete, not by a long shot as far as super-competitive goes, but I'm not spending cash on this for awhile. I also wasn't able to find and Autumn Willow at my shop, so I'll have to settle for Silvos, Rogue Elemental as my general for now. Which is fine, Silvos is a pretty cool guy anyway.
Onto the deck contents, I want to just play off of Green's biggest strengths; artifact & enchantment hate, mana ramp & acceleration, big & efficient fast creatures. Here's the list I have right now, I need help trimming un-needed chaff from the list. I'd appreciate it.
Anyway, you can see what I'm trying to do, I'm open to suggestions on ways to maximize the efficiency of the deck and what it does best. I really would love to have some kind of a finalized list because something about this deck is just exciting me to want to play with.
Originally Posted by 3drinks View Post
I've actually had a soft spot for this archetype, ever since Unscythe, Killer of Kings was printed.
You sir have inspired me.
Yay, I inspired someone! I'm glad you liked my build. A lot of the stuff you put in your last build just looked thrown together. Like, your mana base is really taxing and isn't equipped well enough to be able to handle the stretching you're trying to do with it. There's enough good zombies that you could stick to just BRU and cut the green. Sure you lose Leech and Pulse, but you pick up Agony Warp which is awesome to replace Pulse, and you get a more sturdy mana base. Replacing Leech in that I'd probably use Shambling Remains. That guy is pretty good. 4 power for 1RB? Yes please. The fact that he can come back is just gravy.
My BRU build on page 1 needs some work, admittedly idk why the Conniseurs are still there, that was just for the combo with Archdemon of Unx whom I overall decided wasn't worth trying. Well, idk maybe. It's not like I'm trying to hardcast him anyway <_<. But for the most part, that build could do you some good. Hell, you could set the deck up with some Soul Manipulation or Countersquall for control elements(lol, Control-Zombies build? Sounds weird <_<).
Anyway, yeah, just try to toy around with that build, and I'd be happy to hear what you come up with.
Well, I played a game versus my brother earlier Thursday, before I went to work. He was using Jenara, Asura of War as his general. Here's how my first couple of turns broke down.
He dropped a story circle on me on like turn...4? Maybe turn 5? Anyway, he never got to use it until I forgot about it and tried Consume Spirit for 8, which he prevented. No problem, next turn I top decked Profane Command and played it for 8 for the win. I think this was turn 7/8 or so. Maybe a few turns more, there were a couple of turns where we didn't do anything. *shrugs*
TBH, you're mostly correct. I like a lot of the stuff that grixis has to offer, like Ultimatum, a plethora of it's removal spells(y halo thar Agony Warp) and I wanted to use Dbl Neg to hose Jund's cascade mechanic. *shrugs*
So I just took some of the "better" allies in those colours and made what looked like Grixis Allies Control.
True, I am choosing to forego the W, as it's really hard to get a good, stable, and reliable 4-colour mana base in this Standard. So I opted for the 3 colours as I have a little better fixing in these colours(it's easier to do), and I get some great control type kill cards to set up my board. Agony Warp is amazing, Terminate is Terminate, Double Negative gives Jund the finger, and Ultimatum is some sick card advantage.
That said, the SB could use some improvement, I think, but I couldn't think of anything better than the stuff I put in.
EDIT: Ooh, I can't believe I missed Blightning...
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Jwar Isle Refuge
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Swamp
4 Mountain
4 Island
Creatures(14)
4 Bala Ged Thief
3 Hagra Diabolist
2 Kazul Warlord
3 Sea Gate Loremaster
2 Murasa Pyromancer
2 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Terminate
3 Agony Warp
3 Into the Roil
3 Double Negative
2 Rite of Replication
3 Jace Beleren
2 Blightning
3 Pithing Needle
3 Negate
2 Blightning
2 Pyroclasm
2 Infest
2 Obelisk of Alara
1 Double Negative
Now, some of those slots could be swapped out for similar cards, i.e. Negate for Double Negative. In my meta, I would run Double Negative main over Negate as I have a lot of Jund to deal with. Everything else looks fairly self-explanatory. Thoughts/feedback?
If anyone has any questions about card choices, just ask, I'd love to answer them.
EDITed.
That's what the guys' name is. I couldn't remember for the life of me. Yeah, his list is pretty tight.
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
You really think FTK is better than Ryusei? I mean, I know the Kavu is amazing and all; he rocks. I like the Spearbreaker here, as I run a lot of sweepers, and he protects all of my dudes for just 1 mana per guy. The deck ramps a ****-ton, so his 5GG cost isn't too hard to work around. Mageta is here for the same reason, he plays on more of my sweepers. I'll give FTK a shot over Ryusei.
I can agree with you on Breaking Point, I was briefly tossing around the idea of replacing it for O-Stone. It does seem to be rather weak, and my opponent will always choose the worse option for me(which will be the 6 damage, as it isn't that much in EDH). I think I'll make the switch to O-Stone.
Thanks again for the opinions, much appreciated.
There's another list on this board that uses Arcum to tinker up a prison lock. It is very efficient and wins fast. He can play Arcum nine out of ten times on turn 2. This is crucial because competitive decks in EDH rarely have an answer to him that fast.
Added Silvos, Rogue Elemental; Vigor; Plated Slagwurm
I've thought for agood while about removing the Coat, I really do like the synergy with the Saprolings...but the last few times I've played this deck, I never even tried to drop it. Likewise, Seedguide is cool, but I have enough ramp, and most players will just find a way to exile him so I don't get the lands, or they just don't care coz they have board position. His replacement(the Slagwurm) has more "Oomph" and more board presence. Then for as awesome as the Kavu is, Silvos > Flametongue 'nuff said.
[CARD]Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Plated Slagwurm
Ravenous Baloth
Yavimaya Elder
Blastoderm
Stone-Seeder Hierophant
Uktabi Orangutan
Virdian Shaman
Hunted Troll
Wall of Roots
Wall of Blossoms
Grazing Gladehart
Relic Crush
Oblivion Stone[/CARD]
If I should put any of those guys in, what exactly should I take out for them? Thanks in advance.
Now, the deck isn't complete, not by a long shot as far as super-competitive goes, but I'm not spending cash on this for awhile. I also wasn't able to find and Autumn Willow at my shop, so I'll have to settle for Silvos, Rogue Elemental as my general for now. Which is fine, Silvos is a pretty cool guy anyway.
Onto the deck contents, I want to just play off of Green's biggest strengths; artifact & enchantment hate, mana ramp & acceleration, big & efficient fast creatures. Here's the list I have right now, I need help trimming un-needed chaff from the list. I'd appreciate it.
I have some other stuff like Rampaging Baloths, Kalonian Behemoths and Terra Stompers as well, but he's in a Standard deck atm, so I can't put those in. There's other stuff I want for this deck such as Primalcrux, Rushwood Elemental, Eternal Witness, Regrowth-esque cards, but, again, I've spent a ****-ton of cash on EDH lately, so I've got to work with other stuff I have.
Anyway, you can see what I'm trying to do, I'm open to suggestions on ways to maximize the efficiency of the deck and what it does best. I really would love to have some kind of a finalized list because something about this deck is just exciting me to want to play with.
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Makeshift mannequin
1 Path to Exile
1 Entomb
1 Putrefy
1 Mortify
Is banned in EDH...I know because I was looking at it with Worldgorger Dragon for my Crosis, the Purger EDH.
Yay, I inspired someone! I'm glad you liked my build. A lot of the stuff you put in your last build just looked thrown together. Like, your mana base is really taxing and isn't equipped well enough to be able to handle the stretching you're trying to do with it. There's enough good zombies that you could stick to just BRU and cut the green. Sure you lose Leech and Pulse, but you pick up Agony Warp which is awesome to replace Pulse, and you get a more sturdy mana base. Replacing Leech in that I'd probably use Shambling Remains. That guy is pretty good. 4 power for 1RB? Yes please. The fact that he can come back is just gravy.
My BRU build on page 1 needs some work, admittedly idk why the Conniseurs are still there, that was just for the combo with Archdemon of Unx whom I overall decided wasn't worth trying. Well, idk maybe. It's not like I'm trying to hardcast him anyway <_<. But for the most part, that build could do you some good. Hell, you could set the deck up with some Soul Manipulation or Countersquall for control elements(lol, Control-Zombies build? Sounds weird <_<).
Anyway, yeah, just try to toy around with that build, and I'd be happy to hear what you come up with.
I really like this build. I'm gonna test my current 4 colour build still, but this Jund Zombies looks solid.
turn 1---> swamp, sol ring, turn 2---> swamp, scuttlemut, turn 3---> swamp, sorin markov, drop him to 10, then turn 4---> swamp, demonic tutor for liliana vess, use vess to tutor for altar of shadows(to lock his general out basically).
He dropped a story circle on me on like turn...4? Maybe turn 5? Anyway, he never got to use it until I forgot about it and tried Consume Spirit for 8, which he prevented. No problem, next turn I top decked Profane Command and played it for 8 for the win. I think this was turn 7/8 or so. Maybe a few turns more, there were a couple of turns where we didn't do anything. *shrugs*