This. But, apparently contrary to you, this makes me want him gone more.
At this stage I don't know what I could do that you would consider unfakeable. Very flattering of course, but it didn't help you read me correctly in Feelgood 80's Movies Mafia.
Right, but in 80’s mafia you were actively scummy, despite being town. Here you have not been actively scummy, and therefore are more likely scum (that’s how that works, right?). Also, I have no idea if that’s how it went down in 80’s and can’t look at it right now, so that’s how I’m choosing to remember it.
I also think, however, that Eco has the strongest scumgame out of everyone in this game, and I still haven't seen a whole lot from him that I think would be unfakeable or hard to fake for him as scum.
This. But, apparently contrary to you, this makes me want him gone more.
Dota comes back to write that one post, after writing an unfinished wall post, saying he is going to continue catching up
and he doesn't even attempt to answer my questions, only killjoys
Can you repeat any questions I missed? I had a quick look back but I didn't see any direct questions apart from one which you answered yourself in your next post.
As for the reread I haven't forgotten (I need to carry on from page 6), things are just a bit rough here at the moment. Been struggling to concentrate these past few days (life issues).
I read DoTA's post 823 but the structure of the post is really confusing to me. I felt that it was a lot of IIoA (information instead of analysis), though, which doesn't reflect super well on DoTA. He's also not giving a whole lot of insight into the genuineness of his mindset with that post. Just "here are my notes, KJ looks more town, Cantrip and Wisp look more scummy". Like, there's no pizzazz or attempt to convince others that he is right at all.
There's nothing to convince anyone of yet, I'm not even halfway through the reread. It was 2am when I got to the end of page 5, so I added the links for the quotes and dropped the notes I'd taken into the thread.
I thought he meant to ask about Axel, because that was the only read I could think of that he might have thought of since you never switched your read on Osie's slot
That's what confused me as well. It seems he was asking about me moving from a town lean before the replacement to a scum read after, which makes no sense. And if KJ did mean Axel, the question still doesn't make sense.
I'd have to go find what I asked u back then
Why doesn't it make sense? Either way?
Scenario 1 (What was asked): KJ is asking how I went from a townlean on Cross/Osie to a scumread of GJ. I never had a townlean on Crossbell so where is he getting that from?
Scenario 2 (What you suspect he meant to ask): How do I get from a townlean on Axel to a scumread of GJ? Why would KJ ask this, and how would he confuse Cross/Osie for Axel?
Yo, everyone. We have two mafia. Who do you currently think they are? I would just like 2 names in your next post. Don’t care if you explain why right now. (I know some people have already done this, please just re-state for the record)
DoTA and Grape checked in but did not answer this. Killjoy has not checked in since I asked. Still want this.
Right now, Killjoy and Cantrip/Eco, but I'm still busy with the read through. Should have time tonight (few hours from now).
Three impossible teams, DV flipped town and I know my alignment. Definite scum in his early townreads...
@Dote what grabbed you about the Osie/Crossbell team building post? Feels weird to mention definite scum in his early town reads when talking about someone who flipped town.
When I was rereading I noticed the team building and made the note to keep track of his reads, since DV flipped town and I know I'm town, he was obviously fooled by someone into thinking they're town. Was a note to self to keep track of how his reads developed from that point.
Acutally @Axel: When was the last time you were mafia? I fear the meta I have from when we were scumbuddies in 2009 might be a bit outdated...
I do not remember exactly what the last game was, but I believe it was 5-6 years ago at this point. And I also seem to recall it didn’t go especially well. I could probably figure it out scrolling back.
Yo, everyone. We have two mafia. Who do you currently think they are? I would just like 2 names in your next post. Don’t care if you explain why right now. (I know some people have already done this, please just re-state for the record)
DoTA and Grape checked in but did not answer this. Killjoy has not checked in since I asked. Still want this.
There is no actual way I am ever wading through all of Proph and Last's posts before Thursday. Grape was a bear, and they have like 10x more post between them.
I am wondering if I have to, though, as - unless it is exactly Proph/Last and they are actually post-counting us to death - it is only 1 there at worst, and that still leaves 1 Mafia and I think I would be pretty comfortable with voting Cantrip down at the bottom right now. (Sorry Eco.)
Maybe DoTA, but it would have to be based on D2 stuff I haven't reviewed yet, not the D1 comparisons.
Grape does a re-read of Osie in post #290. The TLDR take away is he still thinks Osie is scum, and the read is strengthening. Presumably this means stronger than the "late D1" strength he stated earlier.
There's a lot to pick through here. Grape says he doesn't like Osie's Rainbow read post where he gave an early opinion on everyone in the game. Even though this ended in a mild town-lean on Grape himself, Grape appears to not like it, thinking that Osie (1) harped too much on Grape voting second on someone during RVS, and (2) was very "staccato" in his other remarks about Grape - i.e. would comment what he liked about one post, and then what he didn't like about another post without showing how his thought processes evolved over time, and this seemed like a more scummy way to do an analysis of someone. Like throwing stuff out there to see if anything would stick to the wall. Grape also thought Osie was doing the same kind of thing with his assessment of DV (which ended in scum-lean). But not with Last, which he felt was more "fluid."
So Grape says he doesn't like Osie's "process" here, even before looking at the actual conclusions (which he also I guess disagrees with to some extent, though it is not clear exactly which ones he disagrees with - Grape does not really give any opinions on anyone else here). He also seems to allow that if it's really Osie, it's less of a red flag than it might otherwise be.
He questions Osie's meta dive on me, says it feels agenda driven, which, fair. He also seems to feel Osie might be sucking up to Proph at bit (appeasement?) in agreeing with him, and following him onto a vote on DoTA. I'm just going to quote his conclusion:
So major thoughts are the intial tone felt off but that improved throughout the game. Probably was mostly early Roleplay missing for me. The readswall and team sort are agenda'y red flags to me. As is the intial Axel push. Then the buddying up to Proph and DV just doesn't feel like town core building to me (given the different handling of Wisp for example).
And, eh. That is maybe my biggest take-away, in that Grape had already said he had a "late D1" strength read on Osie, and now after this re-read the read was "increasing in intensity," but it still doesn't seem all that strong. So there's some disconnect for me there.
I don't love that Grape has Osie and Proph as his bottom two read while at the same time saying he specifically doesn't think they are scum together. That's just not how my mind works. Then, when Osie reveals himself, Grape seems to think that weakens a bunch of his points enough to the point he Unvotes pending re-evaluation. Don't care a lot for this, in as much as it really seems to be relying almost entirely on meta.
Grape doesn't really give much in the way of opinions on other people until #543 when he comes down with a vote for Proph. I haven't re-read the post of Proph's that Grape didn't like (in which Proph is explaining why he thinks Osie is Town), and I don't really want to, in as much as this post is already too long. I feel like I have to put an assessment of this particular vote on hold until I do, and then decide if what Grape is saying is reasonable. The fact that it's largely a single post prompting the vote isn't great, but I acknowledge that Grape previously expressed suspicion of Proph.
In #552 Grape says that Proph's wall was "howling", which seems a stronger statement than what he said before. And he's still doing the "Proph not aligned with Osie" (who is now GJ) thing, and seems to be using it as an excuse to not look at GJ.
Something probably noteworthy. I did not realize that, with literally 50 minutes to go until the dealine, Proph was actually in the top spot (this was the HR post at #651 that I missed). In my mind, Osie/GJ was the leading candidate, and I knew there had been traditional last minute flailing, but I did not realize until this moment how close it was for Proph. This means I now have to actually go and look at that whole sequence again, which I totally do not have time to do. But, what I was saying, with 50 minutes until deadline, this was the vote:
Grape then comes back and indicates he's still happy with his Proph vote at #654. DV is the one who literally flips the balance in the very next post, #655, by switching from Proph to GJ. That is insta-followed by Last at #657 (I have no idea what Last was saying about GJ before this. I have a feeling he was saying "Town", but maybe he was conflicted, and maybe this was strictly a deadline thing). Last then follows Proph and switches to Grape.
Grape sticks on Proph though. Not really saying much about GJ. They just appear to be a non-aligned pair for him, and when one goes up the other goes down.
GJ comes back and adds his vote to Grape, and now they are actually tied 3-3, with 17 minutes left.
To his credit, Grape does NOT hop the GJ wagon immediately to preserve himself here. In fact, in #686 he says that GJ doesn't really seem like a wolf to him. And I want to say that's remarkably cool-headed, if Grape is scum. I can only imagine, but if I was scum getting run up at deadline and there was a viable counter-wagon, I feel like I would find a way to get on it. Or at least start making some posts that could influence others to get on the counter-wagon. Something more frantic and/or desperate than what I'm seeing here. Grape does say, at #693 that he guesses he should vote for GJ, which is kind of what I'm talking about, but also says he doesn't feel great about it, will hold off for 10 minutes, and encourages people to come back to the Proph wagon. Still pretty cool-headed if scum.
Grape makes a point I considered myself, which was the way Proph very vocally encouraged Osie to reveal his true identity, in the hopes that our knowing it was Osie would change our reads of him. I thought it strange at the time, and (when envisioning Proph/Osie wolf teams) imagined him doing this as a way to try and save his partner, as at least a few people (myself included) had said that if Crossbell was Osie, at least some of what he had posted would be more explainable as Town. We now know Proph. obviously wasn't doing that to save his partner, but I feel like it was a legitimate speculation.
Then, at #705, after a post from DV leads Grape to believe that DV will vote him at deadline over GJ, Grape seems to think that means it's over for him, and he'd better make a legacy post. And that's also remarkably calm for scum about to get voted out.
The "Legacy" post is at #715. As these things go, I guess it's fine. It's weird because GJ is the actual vote leader, but Grape seems to be assuming that DV is about to switch his vote at the last second. DV isn't actually around, as far as I can tell though. Killjoy finishes it off with 1 minute to deadline (though this was almost irrelevant, as we are on plurality and GJ would have been lynched anyway had Killjoy not voted).
I guess in scum-Killjoy worlds there's a world where it's him and Grape and Killjoy was voting here to ensure that there wouldn't be a last second switch onto his partner, but I don't really think that.
Grape continues to give some more of his reads, even after GJ is voted out. And frankly that's another really good look. Maybe he didn't realize the deadline had past? No real reason for him to continue on that way as scum though. He would have just been breathing a big sigh of relief, I think is all.
And, man, I wasn't sure before all that stuff at the end, but the end really shot Grape up. I have a hard time seeing all those posts coming from Mafia, esp. Mafia on the edge, in that way. It all really looks pretty Town to me.
Verdict: Now thinking not Mafia. Probably above Killjoy.
Yo, everyone. We have two mafia. Who do you currently think they are? I would just like 2 names in your next post. Don’t care if you explain why right now. (I know some people have already done this, please just re-state for the record)
I obviously did not get back to this today, and now I've got to sleep. I'll finish the GF stuff tomorrow. I do not know about Proph and/or Last stuff yet. It makes me exhausted even thinking about looking at all that.
Right, but in 80’s mafia you were actively scummy, despite being town. Here you have not been actively scummy, and therefore are more likely scum
But Eco's capability as scum concerns me a great deal....
I am wondering if I have to, though, as - unless it is exactly Proph/Last and they are actually post-counting us to death - it is only 1 there at worst, and that still leaves 1 Mafia and I think I would be pretty comfortable with voting Cantrip down at the bottom right now. (Sorry Eco.)
Maybe DoTA, but it would have to be based on D2 stuff I haven't reviewed yet, not the D1 comparisons.
Grape does a re-read of Osie in post #290. The TLDR take away is he still thinks Osie is scum, and the read is strengthening. Presumably this means stronger than the "late D1" strength he stated earlier.
There's a lot to pick through here. Grape says he doesn't like Osie's Rainbow read post where he gave an early opinion on everyone in the game. Even though this ended in a mild town-lean on Grape himself, Grape appears to not like it, thinking that Osie (1) harped too much on Grape voting second on someone during RVS, and (2) was very "staccato" in his other remarks about Grape - i.e. would comment what he liked about one post, and then what he didn't like about another post without showing how his thought processes evolved over time, and this seemed like a more scummy way to do an analysis of someone. Like throwing stuff out there to see if anything would stick to the wall. Grape also thought Osie was doing the same kind of thing with his assessment of DV (which ended in scum-lean). But not with Last, which he felt was more "fluid."
So Grape says he doesn't like Osie's "process" here, even before looking at the actual conclusions (which he also I guess disagrees with to some extent, though it is not clear exactly which ones he disagrees with - Grape does not really give any opinions on anyone else here). He also seems to allow that if it's really Osie, it's less of a red flag than it might otherwise be.
He questions Osie's meta dive on me, says it feels agenda driven, which, fair. He also seems to feel Osie might be sucking up to Proph at bit (appeasement?) in agreeing with him, and following him onto a vote on DoTA. I'm just going to quote his conclusion: And, eh. That is maybe my biggest take-away, in that Grape had already said he had a "late D1" strength read on Osie, and now after this re-read the read was "increasing in intensity," but it still doesn't seem all that strong. So there's some disconnect for me there.
I don't love that Grape has Osie and Proph as his bottom two read while at the same time saying he specifically doesn't think they are scum together. That's just not how my mind works. Then, when Osie reveals himself, Grape seems to think that weakens a bunch of his points enough to the point he Unvotes pending re-evaluation. Don't care a lot for this, in as much as it really seems to be relying almost entirely on meta.
Grape doesn't really give much in the way of opinions on other people until #543 when he comes down with a vote for Proph. I haven't re-read the post of Proph's that Grape didn't like (in which Proph is explaining why he thinks Osie is Town), and I don't really want to, in as much as this post is already too long. I feel like I have to put an assessment of this particular vote on hold until I do, and then decide if what Grape is saying is reasonable. The fact that it's largely a single post prompting the vote isn't great, but I acknowledge that Grape previously expressed suspicion of Proph.
In #552 Grape says that Proph's wall was "howling", which seems a stronger statement than what he said before. And he's still doing the "Proph not aligned with Osie" (who is now GJ) thing, and seems to be using it as an excuse to not look at GJ.
Something probably noteworthy. I did not realize that, with literally 50 minutes to go until the dealine, Proph was actually in the top spot (this was the HR post at #651 that I missed). In my mind, Osie/GJ was the leading candidate, and I knew there had been traditional last minute flailing, but I did not realize until this moment how close it was for Proph. This means I now have to actually go and look at that whole sequence again, which I totally do not have time to do. But, what I was saying, with 50 minutes until deadline, this was the vote:
Grape then comes back and indicates he's still happy with his Proph vote at #654. DV is the one who literally flips the balance in the very next post, #655, by switching from Proph to GJ. That is insta-followed by Last at #657 (I have no idea what Last was saying about GJ before this. I have a feeling he was saying "Town", but maybe he was conflicted, and maybe this was strictly a deadline thing). Last then follows Proph and switches to Grape.
Grape sticks on Proph though. Not really saying much about GJ. They just appear to be a non-aligned pair for him, and when one goes up the other goes down.
GJ comes back and adds his vote to Grape, and now they are actually tied 3-3, with 17 minutes left.To his credit, Grape does NOT hop the GJ wagon immediately to preserve himself here. In fact, in #686 he says that GJ doesn't really seem like a wolf to him. And I want to say that's remarkably cool-headed, if Grape is scum. I can only imagine, but if I was scum getting run up at deadline and there was a viable counter-wagon, I feel like I would find a way to get on it. Or at least start making some posts that could influence others to get on the counter-wagon. Something more frantic and/or desperate than what I'm seeing here. Grape does say, at #693 that he guesses he should vote for GJ, which is kind of what I'm talking about, but also says he doesn't feel great about it, will hold off for 10 minutes, and encourages people to come back to the Proph wagon. Still pretty cool-headed if scum.
Grape makes a point I considered myself, which was the way Proph very vocally encouraged Osie to reveal his true identity, in the hopes that our knowing it was Osie would change our reads of him. I thought it strange at the time, and (when envisioning Proph/Osie wolf teams) imagined him doing this as a way to try and save his partner, as at least a few people (myself included) had said that if Crossbell was Osie, at least some of what he had posted would be more explainable as Town. We now know Proph. obviously wasn't doing that to save his partner, but I feel like it was a legitimate speculation.
Then, at #705, after a post from DV leads Grape to believe that DV will vote him at deadline over GJ, Grape seems to think that means it's over for him, and he'd better make a legacy post. And that's also remarkably calm for scum about to get voted out.
The "Legacy" post is at #715. As these things go, I guess it's fine. It's weird because GJ is the actual vote leader, but Grape seems to be assuming that DV is about to switch his vote at the last second. DV isn't actually around, as far as I can tell though. Killjoy finishes it off with 1 minute to deadline (though this was almost irrelevant, as we are on plurality and GJ would have been lynched anyway had Killjoy not voted).
I guess in scum-Killjoy worlds there's a world where it's him and Grape and Killjoy was voting here to ensure that there wouldn't be a last second switch onto his partner, but I don't really think that.
Grape continues to give some more of his reads, even after GJ is voted out. And frankly that's another really good look. Maybe he didn't realize the deadline had past? No real reason for him to continue on that way as scum though. He would have just been breathing a big sigh of relief, I think is all.
And, man, I wasn't sure before all that stuff at the end, but the end really shot Grape up. I have a hard time seeing all those posts coming from Mafia, esp. Mafia on the edge, in that way. It all really looks pretty Town to me.
Verdict: Now thinking not Mafia. Probably above Killjoy.
Yo, everyone. We have two mafia. Who do you currently think they are? I would just like 2 names in your next post. Don’t care if you explain why right now. (I know some people have already done this, please just re-state for the record)
Win!
This strategy cannot fail!