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  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I still have no mattress. I am going to the Casper store today! Wheee!
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I guess it's the "if we all agree" part that is impossible, with scum getting a say in it.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    The one thing I will say for Tom - not that this clears him in any way - is that, if scum, he's certainly taking his time here. He's at least going through all the motions of doing his due diligence. Which, I could easily see scum-Tom skimping on because of his general reputation.

    But I can also still easily see scum-Tom just sitting over there in a big dilemma, wanting to kill someone bad but because they are already down a man needing to make it look as good as possible.

    So, meh. I almost don't want to give him too much direction because of the excuse that gives him to be wrong. Like, if we all agree on someone, that's probably the best way this works. Not just giving him a list and letting him pick.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    So, not that any of you need to know this, but I'm currently shopping for a new mattress and it's a complete soul-sucking nightmare out there. I have spent hours upon hours for the past several days looking for reliable and unbiased information and it is hell. And going to the retail big box stores with their extremely over-priced and yet questionable quality is not much better.

    I am open to suggestions from people who actually like their mattress. Am not looking for an all foam/latex construction. Would like something that will not fall apart/sag in 12 months.

    This is a large part of why I am doing nothing in this game right now. Sorry for the derail.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    When did people start referring to "Lynch" as "Lunch?" Is this a PC thing? Am I just not with the times here? It kind of bugs me.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from Cantripmancer »

    With that in mind, maybe Tom's claiming the shot early game is more indicative of town!Tom since he's been getting NK'd early game a lot recently? Wants to ensure the vig shot doesn't end up unused? Fits into my theory that he was playing to avoid the NK, which I like (because I like being right), but I guess scum!Tom probably realizes that waiting to use the shot may lead to him having to shoot a buddy or risk solving the game for town by his refusal/early game vigs on town will be easier to write off as possibly coming from town? Eh, not convinced that Tom's choice of when he revealed the shot is AI.
    Except that one very operative theory is that he only just acquired this day-vig. possibly as a result of Az getting lynched. And he is refusing to elaborate any further on the details of the role.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    You will respect that, given my current feelings, this answer does not inspire me with confidence.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from tomsloger »
    @axel
    I think i remember your questions being about role so that would be why i didnt answer
    Because answering questions about your role (when you have already claimed day-vig.) would give the scum TMI?

    Wasn't that Az's response?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from tomsloger »
    You telling me that in your decades of playing this hasnt come up before? Every vig ever has used their shots early and this is some new thought?
    Can point you to another game where I had a 1-shot vig and never used it. Whole game. Town won too.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from tomsloger »
    Ok so

    I agree technically that waiting longer to use a vig shot improves the chances of hitting scum with it

    But how is that even the most important consideration?
    More town controlled kills early makes every lynch and night action afterward better informed.

    Like the point isnt getting it right its attempting to win the game yo



    Also just gonna note that at first it was scummy of me to want to shoot now chris acknowledges he knows he has an unpopular opinion

    Not a real read
    Not sure if this is a discussion worth having, but your argument is circular. More lynches and Night Kills makes every vig-shot more informed also. And I would argue that a correct vig. shot is way, way more beneficial for the Town.

    Like I said, I got vigged myself once for arguing this. Though, that was on D1 when we had the least amount of info., which was rather a large part of my argument. I will concede that we have more to work with now.

    Also, you didn't answer my questions?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I did not see a discussion about the merits of Day-Vigging later vs. Day-vigging immediately. I saw this one exchange:
    Quote from Sir Chris »
    I find it likely Tom is scum who got a day vig because we successfully lynched scum (the evil version of Vezok's condition) and also if he has a dayvig it is probably low EV to use it today as town. In a high powered setup much better to use it later on but since I think he is scum and is trying to "prove himself" then anyone who is not in my town confirm is fine.
    Quote from vezokpiraka »

    Do you just come up with the worst justifications for why people can be scum for fun?

    Hiding a day vig and not using it instantly is probably the dumbest play anyone can make.
    Quote from Sir Chris »
    Vezok why are you playing with such anger. Like, I don't get it. Today is a really good day for us to explore reads.
    And then this one comment from Tom later.
    Quote from tomsloger »
    no way you believe shooting later is better
    Which maybe suggests that (in Tom's opinion?) no one (who was any good?) could possibly think it would be better to shoot later? Or maybe he's giving an opinion about you specifically for some reason.

    So I'm not sure where all the doom and gloom came from in #1549. No one (except Vezok) said it was dumb. And Vezok is not exactly the greatest arbiter of what is and isn't good play.

    I saw this too.
    Quote from Sir Chris »

    I don't know why people think I am egotistical
    Umm, come on, man. Yes you do.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    Quote from Sir Chris »

    Of course shooting later is better than early, you have more information. In a game like this it is likely power will catch scum and if you don't reveal your shot day 2 you can shoot for sure scum on a later day or keep it in your pocket for when reads crystalize. Shooting later is so much better later that is disgusts me tht it is seen as "dumb" for me to believe otherwise. Having more information to aim at someone makes total sense.
    I must have missed this conversation. I am going to go find it, because as a general rule I am totally team "keep in your pants for as long as possible." I believe this attitude got me day-vigged once because essentially no one agreed with me.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I kind of want to kill LW just because bad votes and his logic is non-existent, but I'm afraid that his defense of "lol, that's just how I am and you can suck it" is virtually unassailable.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    @Tomsloger:

    (1) Did you have this day-vig on D1 and choose not to use/say anything about it, or did it not come "online" as it were until today?
    (2) Can this be a Night-Vig or is it Day only?
    (3) Is it use now or lose it, or can you save for later?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Modern Mafia - Day 2: Blood Moon
    I'm going to finish this piece. Then do something else.

    It's hard looking back to see/remember how fast the posts were coming, but there was a long period after Az claimed where there was no movement on any wagons. We were sitting there. Some of us had unanswered questions for Az, but there wasn't really any push anywhere else. Didn't seem like anyone's opinions had changed much. Looked like Az lynch was going to happen.

    Az started doing his longer posts looking at people and giving more opinions, and I'm sure that helped some people decide to come off of him later. He asked for an extension.

    The first vote for Fuwa came @1086 from Grapefruit. For basically the reason that he did not want to lynch the claimed Cop shot. This is something he had previously stated, so, nothing really new. He's also adamantly against a deadline extension, however, and in hindsight that's fairly Townie. Given that he has stated he doesn't want Az lynched, were he scumbuddies, one would think he might have supported an extension request - frankly, even if he's Town I would have thought he might have supported this if he didn't want Az lynched - but he did not.

    I posted and I did support the deadline extension request *unpats self*

    In my defense, Az had started making longer, more analytical posts on all the players and I thought that was a good thing, regardless of his alignment. Whichever way he flipped, it would give us more to work with.

    Chris voted for Tom. Possibly trying to get an alternate wagon moving. There were a few people who had indicated support in that direction.

    Ah, then Fuwa showed up. This is what started it. She made a few posts that indicated she had been busy and hadn't had time to catch up, and then the remark that apparently sets herself on fire when she responded to an accusation of her possibly being "inexperienced scum" and said she wasn't, she was just busy.

    Chris pounces immediately. Votes Fuwa in #1118. Two reasons given (1) Doesn't like Fuwa supporting a deadline extension request while at the same time saying she will only be around for a little bit. (2) Responding to the accusation of being inexperienced scum when "no one accused you of being scum." I think both of these points might be invalid, in as much as Fuwa was saying she wasn't going to be around for long now, but if there was an extension, that would give her time to catch up and make a more intelligent vote later as opposed to just "sheeping" someone. This doesn't seem unreasonable to me. And the second point was just wrong in as much as I think someone (Azrael?) did suggest that Fuwa might be inexperienced scum at one point.

    Shadow joins the Fuwa wagon at #1124, and I think this probably officially makes it "a thing." He doesn't say why except that he was "down" to explore that avenue at present. Perhaps consistent with his waffling on Az a bit. We have ~12 hours left until the deadline at this point.

    I'm obviously not a fan of this movement. In general I dislike last minute CFDs (unless I'm pushing one of course, but that would only be if I really, really thought the person was scum, or was really really convinced we were about to mislynch. Not just to "see what happens" with 12 hours until deadline. That's irresponsible to me.)

    Shadow petitions for more Fuwa votes in #1130. This could just be a differing philosophy at work here, but yeah, not a fan. He explains his reasoning a little better in #1135
    I was down on Fuwa before, and her pop in is all kinds of wolfy. Since we don’t have the risk of no lynch, applying some pressure and seeing what comes seems like a fine thing to do
    Then says:
    I’d say I’m about 50% on Az being scum, and maybe slightly higher on Fuwa. Not by a lot.

    Tom joins the Fuwa wagon in #1146 with a "lol" and :popcorneating. Then elaborates he's "More or less happy with these wagons" and "Dont think theyre more likely scum than az, but definitely >rand after that popin and its the best counterwagon weve had." You may imagine how unimpressed I am with this.

    Ugh. Cantrip vehemently argues against the Fuwa wagon in #1138, #1147 and #1157. Then votes Fuwa in #1162. He acts like he's been bullied into it by a combination of Chris/Tom/Shadow and says "You can't all be scum!" Does say that he would happily go back to Az, but the switch is still bad. Since when do you get bullied, Cantrip? This ties the vote count, I believe, at 5-5.

    Cantrip then elaborates on his vote in #1165, but it does seem like he put the cart before the horse a bit. Almost as though he knew his flip-flop looked bad and was trying to justify it after the fact. That is something he could do as Town as well though.

    Then KCC of all people switches to Fuwa in #1168 with a :shrug. KCC had expressed some concerns about Fuwa before, but had always said Az first. I am presuming this was for the "just push this to see where it goes" reasoning, and not because it suddenly looked so much better.

    Vez votes Fuwa in #1183. He also requests deadline extension because he won't be around and he really doesn't want to lynch Fuwa. This is consistent with him needing to be on lynches as Fuwa is now the leading wagon and we are close to deadline. Now it's 7-3.

    That's peak Fuwa wagon. I come back and opine that I think this wagon is stupid. But that doesn't actually move the dial for anyone as far as I can see. It's KCC switching the vote back to Az in #1200 that begins the comeback - though LW still votes for Fuwa first. And then I think Shadow switches back as I discussed previously.

    Given we don't actually know Fuwa's alignment it's hard to make a firm conclusion about any of this. If I assume Fuwa is Town though, the worst looking votes were: Chris, Tom, Cantrip, Last Whisper.

    I excuse GF for starting it and being very explicit it was because he just didn't want to lynch a claimed Cop Shot - but then not wishing for an extension at a point when it still looked like Az was the lynch. Shadow was also fairly explicit he just wanted to see a counterwagon in action and (apparently) felt like there was plenty of time to explore this before deadline. Shadow later redeems himself going back to Az. KCC I already said is Town or one of the most epic of bussers. And Vez is also very likely Town already for reasons not even having to do with this, but his vote is still consistent.

    Posted in: Mafia
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