My suggestions was for users to be treated fairly. Was that missed?
Your response is harsh, threatening and defensive. Its clear you don't want any moderator dirty laundry aired, so why are you pushing public humiliation? I don't think its your place alone to say what the purpose of the state of the community is.
I'm pretty sure if I started a thread as you suggested. it would get pretty stupid fast. So why would you want such a thing? I rather discuss making the same site better than devolve into trash talking.
Let's spend all our time discussing instances when a moderator has wronged you in some way.
Well, this thread quickly became an unreadable collection of people airing their ancient personal grievances with one another. Jesus Christ. Have you people no shame? When you write that many words, divided up into thousands of quote blocks, do you look over it and go "what am I doing with my time?" Do you have more online enemies than you do real-life friends? Have you forgotten the purpose of a forum about Magic, and the purpose of a subforum for meta-discussion of the forum?
Have you considered that maybe, all this drama and **** is just a horrible distraction, and makes everything and everyone look way worse?
The staff is graciously asking for feedback on what the site is like, and all I can see in this thread is bull**** so incrediboring that even I, who really enjoys MTGS drama, find it entirely unreadable.
edit: while I certainly disliked MTGS when I was here last time, so many aspects of it have become sick caricatures of themselves since I left. Staff drama, such a fascinating idea when it happens behind closed doors, swiftly devolves into long rambling "WELL I HEARD THAT YOU SAID TH-" high-school style crap when it's spilled into the open. The Gutter, which I put a lot of effort into trying to make into a readable, irreverent, funny forum that threw rocks at staff members and snickered from the bleachers, became a horrific assemblage of people making extended humorless effortposts about absolutely nothing, and I'm glad it closed to avoid tarnishing my memories of it further.
Instead of me spending time provoking staff in Community Issues, those staff freely and of their own volition get into extended post-offs with people that blatantly have no interest in the forum other than posting about the forum.
People seem to think that users have some sort of right to be talked nicely to, as if they were a small child, when they've done something wrong. I disagree.
edit: to clarify something Harkius said, was mystery45 told not to post in Debate any more? On a totally unrelated note, what would the mod or admin who did this like to receive for Christmas?
I haven't seen how "staff transparency" has made this site better. It's led to a whole bunch of drama, second-guessing, and incredibly boring threads. The site would be a lot better if the staff decided things based on internal discussions, then enforced those decisions to make the site better.
"Transparency" is really just a code word for "doing whatever the user base wants," and unsurprisingly, the current user base is always going to want to continue along the same path, rather than attempting to make that user base a better user base.
The problem with short-term suspensions for single offenses is that they're basically unappealable, since by the time you appeal and the suspension is overturned you've probably served most or all of it already.
I've always thought the infraction system was silly, easily gameable, with no actual upsides. If someone breaks a minor rule, either just have the mod tell them "stop" or suspend them for 24 hours or so. For a lot of users, the embarrassment of "USER WAS SUSPENDED FOR THIS POST" will be enough to right their path. Plus, it gives them a day to cool down if things got heated. If you infract someone for getting into a long, drawn-out insult smackdown in Debate, giving them an infraction that does absolutely nothing short-term will just provoke them further.
People respond to incentives. Specifically, people respond to immediate incentives. Make bad post -> maybe get suspended when you make two more: this is a bad incentive structure. Behavioral economists have repeatedly proven that, for incentives to work, they need to affect things now. People are fundamentally loss-averse, and MTGS can exploit this by, whenever something bad happens, immediately taking away something the user has (ie their ability to post).
People know where I stand on General Site Philosophy, so I'll keep this post to simply discussing the infraction system. FWIW, former admin Goblinboy (who implemented the infraction system in the first place) agrees with my position on this.
How about a 21 year old straight, utterly beautiful male making between zero and minimum wage while going to school year round in the attempt to do what he loves?
Personally the issue is that a discussion turned into an argument and a mod, with a vocal interest in the matter, propelled it into a heated argument instead of closing or moving it, or whatever is approprtiate.
Why shouldn't a mod have a vocal interest on the issue of "don't use insulting and degrading terminology toward other people?" I'd be uncomfortable if mods weren't vocal on that topic.
Let's spend all our time discussing instances when a moderator has wronged you in some way.
Have you considered that maybe, all this drama and **** is just a horrible distraction, and makes everything and everyone look way worse?
The staff is graciously asking for feedback on what the site is like, and all I can see in this thread is bull**** so incrediboring that even I, who really enjoys MTGS drama, find it entirely unreadable.
edit: while I certainly disliked MTGS when I was here last time, so many aspects of it have become sick caricatures of themselves since I left. Staff drama, such a fascinating idea when it happens behind closed doors, swiftly devolves into long rambling "WELL I HEARD THAT YOU SAID TH-" high-school style crap when it's spilled into the open. The Gutter, which I put a lot of effort into trying to make into a readable, irreverent, funny forum that threw rocks at staff members and snickered from the bleachers, became a horrific assemblage of people making extended humorless effortposts about absolutely nothing, and I'm glad it closed to avoid tarnishing my memories of it further.
Instead of me spending time provoking staff in Community Issues, those staff freely and of their own volition get into extended post-offs with people that blatantly have no interest in the forum other than posting about the forum.
****.
edit: to clarify something Harkius said, was mystery45 told not to post in Debate any more? On a totally unrelated note, what would the mod or admin who did this like to receive for Christmas?
"Transparency" is really just a code word for "doing whatever the user base wants," and unsurprisingly, the current user base is always going to want to continue along the same path, rather than attempting to make that user base a better user base.
Are... have you... does... what? This happens all the time and is necessary to tell people to knock it off when they're acting dumb v:confused:v
This is a wonderful feature of them, not a bug.
Because it's still not an immediate punishment when people do something wrong, and it still tries to categorize posts into neat little boxes.
People respond to incentives. Specifically, people respond to immediate incentives. Make bad post -> maybe get suspended when you make two more: this is a bad incentive structure. Behavioral economists have repeatedly proven that, for incentives to work, they need to affect things now. People are fundamentally loss-averse, and MTGS can exploit this by, whenever something bad happens, immediately taking away something the user has (ie their ability to post).
People know where I stand on General Site Philosophy, so I'll keep this post to simply discussing the infraction system. FWIW, former admin Goblinboy (who implemented the infraction system in the first place) agrees with my position on this.
An argument is just a discussion you're losing.
Post reported for attempting to hit on me.
Why shouldn't a mod have a vocal interest on the issue of "don't use insulting and degrading terminology toward other people?" I'd be uncomfortable if mods weren't vocal on that topic.