No, I don't think so. WotC designs sets to increase options in deck building, which is the keystone to creating healthy formats. Limiting mana fixing with the purpose of hosing an entire block out of T2 is completely counterproductive to the game.
but on the same side, if they keep increasing options for deckbuilding, eventually everyone will run 5color something or other. 5color aggro, 5color combo, 5color control, 5color ramp etc.
As far as an investment goes, do you think that the duals just released with m2010 are worth getting now or is it worth the wait for zen lands, if they are going to release any? Does anyone know if they are going to have opposing colors as well? (like b/w etc)
I'm playing on somewhat of a budget and right now the cost of the current duals (for two sets) on ebay is about $60 and thats about my limit atm, worth the wait you think?
at the most powerful end of the spectrum, I could see utility lands or manafixing lands similar to filter lands with land types like the shocklands, allowing them to play nice with with the new m10 duals. Id personaly be ok with it from the pov that it would be kinda cool.
If not that, then just some utility lands and possibly crappy manafixing measures.
My version is based on tapping them out and demanding answers to my creatures. I was trying to figure out a way to abuse Garruk/Fertile Ground and get it in there, but Bant doesn't have much to ramp into that sticks (unless I'm forgetting something...).
ya, mines a bit more creature light control. Though I think id opt out of the lifegain and go for the hard tap-down stoic idea. If I feel i dont need the walls I could replace them with some rafiqs. My idea was...mainly to find a deck where sleep fit well. ended up being a draw/beat/GrO control with its skeleton based on the UGr sneaky snake deck.
main thing im concerned about is if I can regularly beat aggro. even if its at a low amount of life, a reliable win would be nice.
I definitely would not run Goldmane. His +1 isn't very exciting, and his -1 wont do much for you. The singleton Time Warp feels a bit clunky. I would never consider any less than 4 Cryptics.
I can't think of any suggestions to add, but those are the main critiques that stood out to me when I looked.
Good luck!
ya, quite possibly gonna take the goldmanes out, though id consider them more if I did decide to run stoic angel. In fact Im getting a strong inkling to try her, just seems really good when you consider 12 possibly tap all opponents creatures (sleep, clash on pollen, one of cryptics options) it could really work quite well. The timewarp is more the nail in the coffin, I lik casting it my turn after I cast sleep. it allows me to bring up my planeswalkers loyalty counters just a bit more..that..and its interesting as a 1 of.
Not against removing it if there are better options, the 4th cryptic isnt there because atm..I do not have 4 cryptics : /
people like tokens in my meta it seems, though the most prominant one is G/W. Theres always someone who does some R/x aggro deck, and some more random deck ideas.
You really think baneslayer angel is worth it? The only things I see worth it are 1 more P/T and first strike, but loses the ability to give other creatures lifelink. If I got rid of finest hour id be more inclined...
stoic angel seems like a fun card to try as well.
"
edit: and now I see someone posted a deck with stoick+sleep control "wanders over to give a look"
Just an idea I had because I love the thought of putting sleep in the same deck with finest hour The name Throat punch is the vision I get after you cast something like sleep then "go for the throat". cryptic command and pollen lullaby can also do a mini sleep effect, and finest hour just makes double the damage (and the lifegain), not much in exalted shenanigans, so who knows, I might take out the finest hours even though I love them.
Its a control deck that relies on strong beaters to make the win. Currently considering battlegrace angel because I think shes smexy.
Obviously I could see using windbrisk until it rotates. I think all the planeswalkers relate to the deck fairly well, jace giving CA and growing the coatl, elspeth can make chumps, evasion, and if its ultimate goes off, a indistructable coatl is entertaining. Ajani is pretty much there for his second ability since it doesnt target it hits the denials as well. But Ill probably drop it in testing.
The idea is to try and hold aggro off until you can establish stealing there turns with sleep/timewarp/cryptics and fog effects. I went with battlegrace over baneslayer since id rather aid my only other relevant creature threat lorescale coatl then really even more on 1 win condition. I could see trying wall of reverance just to try and juice battlegrace even more instead of running the denials, but we will see.
Note: the idea for this pretty much originates from the UGr sneaky snake deck. It just seemed to me that if you went from GUr to GUW it might have some strong pairings.
whats yours?
Are you the seat of your pants player, not knowing a single thing about the game save for the tutorial, you refuse to read the manual, and you condemn people for using walkthroughs.
The hardcore player, You have the manual memorized, youve downloaded multiple walkthroughs and FAQ's, if you miss one stat allocation you restart the game without giving it a second thought other then the fact that you might try a different hairstyle. You even have graphs and maps outlining exactly when and where to go.
The Role-player, before and as your start the game you cultivate your characters personality, background, bias, pet peeves, turnons, and romance interests. Maybe you play a lot of DnD and even decide your characters alignment which combined with your characters race/class determines every social interaction and decision for the rest of the game.
The vanity player, often mingled or misunderstood (depending on the player) as a rol-player. They will skim through manuals and walkthroughs, but mainly for the coolest looking bits of gear, haircut, or whatever. These people love games where you can customize your character beyond statistics, when your playing your character you can spend hours scouring for that awesome trenchcoat, or most badass looking weapon. Often times these people will opt for less effective gear, simply because it looks cool. By the end of the game there character has to be the embodiement of badassery.
Obviously you can be a combination.
Myself I tend to throw in a bit of roleplay, hardcore, and vanity all rolled into one. First time I get a hold of a game, I play it through a little bit to get a feel, often times not finishing that game, then getting some walkthroughs and a general idea, restart the game with a basis of how I want my character to interact with the world.
I also tend to suffer from a bad habit of opting for less efficient gear to make my character aesthetically pleasing, I love games where I can change clothing color, hairstyles, scars, tatoos etc and spend far too much time editing. I remember playing fable2, when I changed my characters sex, I spent almost an hour finding new clothes and dyes, hairstyles etc just to make it look just right, and was so disgusted by the characters physique I refunded all of it and dedicated the character to skill and will utilizing the best pistol in the game along with timecontrol, chaos, and inferno (which towards the end of the game I did anyways regardless of my melee prowess, so it wasnt taht big of a leap).
thats my tentative decklist. sleep buys time, timewarp as well, both almost allowing free turns for more draws. pyroclasm and snakeform my only removal so to speak, even though snakeform requires them attacking or blocking with said creature.
burning inquiry is 1 mana grow by 3, but it may hurt my hand, upside is it can also hurt my opponents hand.
put in clones to as a 5-8 of my coatls and dragons.
well first off this is the type2 forum, as such you need type2 legal cards, tenth edition itself rotated out, we now have m10, there are some cards from tenth that are in m10, but not all.
second you need a lot more sweepers if you want to attempt this.
pyroclasm
calderra hellion maybe
earthquake possibly, but most likely will kill you before your opponent.
-4 Hellspark Elemental
-3 Cliffrunner Behemoth
-4 Hell's Thunder
-3 Garruk Wildspeaker
-2 Mountain
-2 Forest
+4 Jund Hackblade (same damage as Hellspark, and not dead at the end of turn)
+3 Boartusk Liege (you need to increase damages)
+4 Tattermunge Maniac (trigger Jund Hackblade)
+2 Blitz Hellion
+1 Banefire (as a finisher)
+4 Fire-Lit Thicket (make Flame Javelin and Ball Lightning easier to cast)
Ok gotta say this, I both disagree with the person you quoted, and some of your suggestions.
taking out hellsparks for hackblades isnt really worth it. 1...your not always going to be able to play a pumped hackblade, and 2..hackblade doesnt have trample. hellspark can force damage thru and its unearth can be a great suprise.
tattermunge maniacs arent very good since oftentimes after turn2 he will simply die into a creature, at best trade, then hes crap for the rest of the game.
blitz hellion is a bit top heavy for a aggro deck, include the fact taht it doesnt last then its not really worth the 5 mana.
banefire is questionable if you run 4x BBE, why risk cascading into that? Sure you wont do it often, but when it does it turns BBE from a good card into a crap 3/2 haste for 4.
also if your gonna use the liege, make sure you have enough creatures to really get advantage of it, and whether it would make tattermunge worth it...is questionable, but possible. as for what you suggested taking out, I agree with all of it I think.
Question is though, do you want to keep some of the garruks to push damage thru? only so many of your creatures have trample.
The way the list is right now theres no way for Jund Hackblade to have haste on turn 2. to fix this i suggest Tattermunge Maniac or Figure of Destiny(assuming you have the appropriate mana fixing).
or just dont run the hackblades /shrug
Im sure there are other cards to run in its place, best thing it can do is get cascaded into with BBE for 2x 3/2's for 4 mana, but even then id rather cascade into..i dunno, lightning bolt, maelstrom pulse, puncture blast, ram-gang, ball lightning, etc
but on the same side, if they keep increasing options for deckbuilding, eventually everyone will run 5color something or other. 5color aggro, 5color combo, 5color control, 5color ramp etc.
that...is not a healthy format.
There has to be limits to have a healthy format.
awfully usefull if you consider vs tokens as well.
The real key is making a control deck fast enough.
at the most powerful end of the spectrum, I could see utility lands or manafixing lands similar to filter lands with land types like the shocklands, allowing them to play nice with with the new m10 duals. Id personaly be ok with it from the pov that it would be kinda cool.
If not that, then just some utility lands and possibly crappy manafixing measures.
ya, mines a bit more creature light control. Though I think id opt out of the lifegain and go for the hard tap-down stoic idea. If I feel i dont need the walls I could replace them with some rafiqs. My idea was...mainly to find a deck where sleep fit well. ended up being a draw/beat/GrO control with its skeleton based on the UGr sneaky snake deck.
main thing im concerned about is if I can regularly beat aggro. even if its at a low amount of life, a reliable win would be nice.
ya, quite possibly gonna take the goldmanes out, though id consider them more if I did decide to run stoic angel. In fact Im getting a strong inkling to try her, just seems really good when you consider 12 possibly tap all opponents creatures (sleep, clash on pollen, one of cryptics options) it could really work quite well. The timewarp is more the nail in the coffin, I lik casting it my turn after I cast sleep. it allows me to bring up my planeswalkers loyalty counters just a bit more..that..and its interesting as a 1 of.
Not against removing it if there are better options, the 4th cryptic isnt there because atm..I do not have 4 cryptics : /
You really think baneslayer angel is worth it? The only things I see worth it are 1 more P/T and first strike, but loses the ability to give other creatures lifelink. If I got rid of finest hour id be more inclined...
stoic angel seems like a fun card to try as well.
"
edit: and now I see someone posted a deck with stoick+sleep control
Its a control deck that relies on strong beaters to make the win. Currently considering battlegrace angel because I think shes smexy.
4x wall of denial
4x lorescale coatl
4x battlegrace angel
spells
4x sleep
2x finest hour
1x time warp
3x cryptic command
4x negate
4x pollen lullaby
2x jace beleren
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
2x Ajani Goldmane
The idea is to try and hold aggro off until you can establish stealing there turns with sleep/timewarp/cryptics and fog effects. I went with battlegrace over baneslayer since id rather aid my only other relevant creature threat lorescale coatl then really even more on 1 win condition. I could see trying wall of reverance just to try and juice battlegrace even more instead of running the denials, but we will see.
Note: the idea for this pretty much originates from the UGr sneaky snake deck. It just seemed to me that if you went from GUr to GUW it might have some strong pairings.
Also id suggest splashing black or something for sideboarded removal vs pro-red creatures like BFT
Are you the seat of your pants player, not knowing a single thing about the game save for the tutorial, you refuse to read the manual, and you condemn people for using walkthroughs.
The hardcore player, You have the manual memorized, youve downloaded multiple walkthroughs and FAQ's, if you miss one stat allocation you restart the game without giving it a second thought other then the fact that you might try a different hairstyle. You even have graphs and maps outlining exactly when and where to go.
The Role-player, before and as your start the game you cultivate your characters personality, background, bias, pet peeves, turnons, and romance interests. Maybe you play a lot of DnD and even decide your characters alignment which combined with your characters race/class determines every social interaction and decision for the rest of the game.
The vanity player, often mingled or misunderstood (depending on the player) as a rol-player. They will skim through manuals and walkthroughs, but mainly for the coolest looking bits of gear, haircut, or whatever. These people love games where you can customize your character beyond statistics, when your playing your character you can spend hours scouring for that awesome trenchcoat, or most badass looking weapon. Often times these people will opt for less effective gear, simply because it looks cool. By the end of the game there character has to be the embodiement of badassery.
Obviously you can be a combination.
Myself I tend to throw in a bit of roleplay, hardcore, and vanity all rolled into one. First time I get a hold of a game, I play it through a little bit to get a feel, often times not finishing that game, then getting some walkthroughs and a general idea, restart the game with a basis of how I want my character to interact with the world.
I also tend to suffer from a bad habit of opting for less efficient gear to make my character aesthetically pleasing, I love games where I can change clothing color, hairstyles, scars, tatoos etc and spend far too much time editing. I remember playing fable2, when I changed my characters sex, I spent almost an hour finding new clothes and dyes, hairstyles etc just to make it look just right, and was so disgusted by the characters physique I refunded all of it and dedicated the character to skill and will utilizing the best pistol in the game along with timecontrol, chaos, and inferno (which towards the end of the game I did anyways regardless of my melee prowess, so it wasnt taht big of a leap).
feel free to add more roleplayer archetypes
The idea was a R/U control deck with green for the beats. The idea is to get a lot of card advantage.
4x lorescale coatl
4x spellbound dragon
4x clone
2x overbeing of myth
4x burning inquiry
4x sleep
4x time warp
4x snakeform
4x pyroclasm
2x ponder
burning inquiry is 1 mana grow by 3, but it may hurt my hand, upside is it can also hurt my opponents hand.
put in clones to as a 5-8 of my coatls and dragons.
I have other ideas of what to put in there.
mindspring, mulldrifter, dream fracture cryptic command jace beleren, theres a few others I cant think of atm.
Basically what do you think needs to be done to make this deck, well..good?
second you need a lot more sweepers if you want to attempt this.
pyroclasm
calderra hellion maybe
earthquake possibly, but most likely will kill you before your opponent.
Ok gotta say this, I both disagree with the person you quoted, and some of your suggestions.
taking out hellsparks for hackblades isnt really worth it. 1...your not always going to be able to play a pumped hackblade, and 2..hackblade doesnt have trample. hellspark can force damage thru and its unearth can be a great suprise.
tattermunge maniacs arent very good since oftentimes after turn2 he will simply die into a creature, at best trade, then hes crap for the rest of the game.
blitz hellion is a bit top heavy for a aggro deck, include the fact taht it doesnt last then its not really worth the 5 mana.
banefire is questionable if you run 4x BBE, why risk cascading into that? Sure you wont do it often, but when it does it turns BBE from a good card into a crap 3/2 haste for 4.
also if your gonna use the liege, make sure you have enough creatures to really get advantage of it, and whether it would make tattermunge worth it...is questionable, but possible. as for what you suggested taking out, I agree with all of it I think.
Question is though, do you want to keep some of the garruks to push damage thru? only so many of your creatures have trample.
and then they play a sweeper like VF.
the deck just looks like a bunch of ramp with card draw/card advantage
it looks like it doesnt have enough removal to deal with flyers, especially bitterblossom and spec procession tokens.
the 1/1s the ants make are just 1/1 until garruk's overrun.
seems like it would be very susceptible to disruption in the early game also.
however the idea is interesting, can you perhaps explain the deck a bit?
or just dont run the hackblades /shrug
Im sure there are other cards to run in its place, best thing it can do is get cascaded into with BBE for 2x 3/2's for 4 mana, but even then id rather cascade into..i dunno, lightning bolt, maelstrom pulse, puncture blast, ram-gang, ball lightning, etc