I can't take any of the pearl clutching seriously when I haven't seen any one of you pearl clutching about scantily clad females. In fact it's hypocritical to be calling for more semi-naked ladies while complaining about a man without a shirt on which is much more common irl than women running around in war bikinis
How is it hypocritical? What if I want more scantily clad people on both sides? Peronally I'm not "pearl-clutching" for less scantily clad males, I want more of both!
Aaand he has one of the lamest names anyone in Germany would give their child in 2021. Pretty much as modern a name here as Jebediah would be in the States. Great card nonetheless, and of course the gravy train for people who are into shredded shirtless guys is still running at top speed.
'^^
I like the name Harald but it should heve been used for a human character, not a elf. Harald is a typical name for a gruff viking warrior-king, not a faeric Alfar.
The gods in this set feel more like goofy humans rather than gods. Not sure how I feel about them.
I mean, half the point of the Norse gods is that, first of all, as with certain other pantheons of gods (like the Greek gods), Norse gods are very close to the temperament and behavior of the humans.
Unlike most other pantheons, however, Norse gods aren't immortal. At all. On the contrary, when they die they go to Hel or Valhalla just like everyone else. And, unlike virtually every other pantheon of gods, the Norse gods are not inherently born immortal. They are ONLY able to stay youthful in body and long-lived enough to see Ragnarok because of magical apples grown by their fellow Norse goddess, Iðunn. If they did not eat these apples, Norse gods grow old and die of natural causes, just like everyone else.
Norse gods being fundamentally mortal but powerful beings is kind of one of the whole things that make them unique amongst pantheons.
While I agree with this description, this isn't unique to Norse myth.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I know this is a fantasy setting and the scroll tail is cool but as a fan of squirrels I wished our first squirrel commander actually looked like a squirrel.
The elesh norn is fake. Not just because the holostamp. Doing a simple google search for elesh norn fanart gives you a piece done by Zyralynn (Malena Santos) on artstation 7 months ago.
Also the redaction seems wrong. Pretty sure it should be "types of counter" not "counters", and the first effect says "types of counters ON you and permanents you control" whereas the second effect says "types of counters your opponents and permanents they control HAVE".
If true, my guess is that they'll splash praetors and maybe a couple other phyrexian cards in each new plane in the sense of "they're exploring, expanding, etc." as a way to build up for when they come back in full force. I wouldn't expect anything more than this, but maybe Jin Gitaxias or something in Strixhaven, etc.
I come from the Andes region. Symbols like the Hammer and Sickle, the Guñelve and the Clava have also been appropiated by narco-terrorist, racially inspired groups such as Sendero Luminoso and Coordinadora Arauco-Malleco. I doubt that if I displayed any of those here anyone would bat an eye. WOTC/this community is so US-centric and they're not even aware of it (which is fine, it's the country that produces the game), but I'd hope they'd be honest enough to just go with it instead of going "hey, we made a brown-haired PW, that represents you right Latinos?"
Btw, Latino or Latinx is such a nonsense term anyway. People from the Cono Sur have almost nothing to do with Mexicans or Caribbeans. If anything it only demonstrates ignorance of them.
17 "Diversity picks" in Standard Legendary characters represented on cards:
Ashiok - Non-Binary
Azusa - Female, Japanese
Basri - Middle-Eastern
Chandra - Female, (Indian?)
Eutropia - Female, Black
Jolrael - Female, Black
Kaervek - Black
Linden - Female, Black
Mangara - Black
Narset - Female, Asian
Niambi - Female, Black
Oko - Asian
Rielle - Female, Black
Subira - Female, Black
Tazri - Female, Black
Teferi - Black
Vivien - Female, Black
Out of 113 characters.
Also, I take minor issue with this point. There's quantitative minority, and there's qualitative minority. Sure, quantitatively speaking, there's more "white" characters in MTG, but in terms of who are emphasized and displayed the most? I took a look at product and key art from recent past products. If it's not a monster or non-human character in the art, it's mostly one of those "minority" characters in main display. Teferi for Core2021, Vivien in Ikoria, Chandra in Core 2020, and now Kaya in Kaldheim. Yes, there was Rowan in Eldraine and Jace and Liliana here and there, but as I said, the "overrepresentation of white people" argument is vastly exaggerated IMO.
Y'all really sounding like Jussie Smollett with these delusions.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
Also, many other people who use such symbols are actual fans of vikings, scandinavian culture, certain TV series' fans, including people who are non-white.
Perpetuating the idea that "hey look I got a cool Mjollnir tattoo"="I'm a nazi" only helps create more division.
From the forum rules: "You may attack ideas, but do so while being civil."
I hope this was civil enough. I'm literally attacking an idea, not a person.
I am a Latino with matte skin and brown hair. Also, I could be from Switzerland and have the exact same colors. Brown hair doesn't represent me as a Latino.
The thing is, from what I've heard from WOTC, The Professor, and other advocates for diversity in WOTC (I know TCC isn't officially WOTC but he gives the same points), the point of diversity in MTG art and lore isn't (explicitly, but we all know it's the real reason) because of contigent political issues, but because they want an "accurate representation of human diversity and playerbase". If that was truly the case, we would have a lot more Latino representation than Black representation because the Latino playerbase is indeed larger than the Black playerbase.
Legitimate question: do you have numbers that indicate the statement "...the Latino playerbase is indeed larger than the black playerbase."
Secondly: even if it is true, why is your problem the amount of black people in game, and not the overabundance of white people or the lack of asians of a variety of cultures?
Thirdly: There isn't a political conspiracy. The individuals and groups working on improving diversity will have blind spots, because they are people. WotC's stance is going to be whatever makes them the most money, and generally speaking, you get more money by opening more wallets. There are no doubt many in and out of the company who believe in the good they can do by diversifying, and good can be done there. But as a company itself, WotC does not care about that: it cares about profit. If the attitude of a customer pushes out others, that initial customer will be cut in a heartbeat.
I don't have the numbers, I admit, only my estimation. But, a minority within a country's worth of players compared to a subcontinent worth of players? Sure, there are far fewer MTG players in South America than in the US, but I'm pretty sure the vast vast majority of players in the US are white.
Why am I not bothered by a majority of white people in MTG art and lore? Purely because of what I said above: those are the vast majority of players and said group gives them the most money. From a marketing standpoint it makes sense, period. Plus, I've always considered the "overabundance" of white people to be fairly exaggerated. Even as a kid I remember MTG to be really diverse even in early years, from characters like Teferi to the characters in Mirage, places like Jamuraa, etc. If there's a majority of white people (and not an overwhelmingly large majority) it only makes sense since it's mostly whites that play it. If WOTC were honest enough it wouldn't be an issue, but then again, white guilt is highly marketable to white people.
Ok, now I won't say anything else about this topic. I don't want this thread to be closed.
So glad wizards or anyone doesn't make any decisions based on the problematic and uneducated opinions of a few MTGS posters, yikes!
Back on topic, super excited about fun-loving Elf Tyvar. King af! So happy there's representation for all the Elves who live in Scandinavia.
I admit I went off-topic (and believe me, I'll go back to talking 100% about elves), but how is my opinion so problematic? I'm asking for representation, something that various other groups have done in this community with great success with nobody complaining.
As I said, I don't actually care that much about Latino representation. Kaldheim could be 100% Scandinavian looking people and it's be only acurate. I'm only pointing out what I think is fairly hypocritical using the same "victimhood" language.
wotc is really giving the middle finger to white supremacists
This is exactly what bothers me. If you think people who prefer the viking plane to have mostly, well, viking looking people (just the same for Asians in Kamigawa, Latinos in Ixalan, etc) are "white supremacists", you are, honestly, wrong. I'm not a white supremacist, I'm not even white, yet I do prefer that.
How is it hypocritical? What if I want more scantily clad people on both sides? Peronally I'm not "pearl-clutching" for less scantily clad males, I want more of both!
I like the name Harald but it should heve been used for a human character, not a elf. Harald is a typical name for a gruff viking warrior-king, not a faeric Alfar.
Except for the females, where we can only imagine them because apparently to WOTC the female body is somewhat of a taboo?
My bad. Good thing I'm not on Twitter!
While I agree with this description, this isn't unique to Norse myth.
That's my point. What we call "silliness" is already in the source material. I don't understand the sarcastic complaint by 5colors.
They have a chariot pulled by cats which is almost as silly as Radagast's rabbit-sleigh. I think we'll live.
I love the art personally.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I know this is a fantasy setting and the scroll tail is cool but as a fan of squirrels I wished our first squirrel commander actually looked like a squirrel.
Also the redaction seems wrong. Pretty sure it should be "types of counter" not "counters", and the first effect says "types of counters ON you and permanents you control" whereas the second effect says "types of counters your opponents and permanents they control HAVE".
Btw, Latino or Latinx is such a nonsense term anyway. People from the Cono Sur have almost nothing to do with Mexicans or Caribbeans. If anything it only demonstrates ignorance of them.
Also, I take minor issue with this point. There's quantitative minority, and there's qualitative minority. Sure, quantitatively speaking, there's more "white" characters in MTG, but in terms of who are emphasized and displayed the most? I took a look at product and key art from recent past products. If it's not a monster or non-human character in the art, it's mostly one of those "minority" characters in main display. Teferi for Core2021, Vivien in Ikoria, Chandra in Core 2020, and now Kaya in Kaldheim. Yes, there was Rowan in Eldraine and Jace and Liliana here and there, but as I said, the "overrepresentation of white people" argument is vastly exaggerated IMO.
Also, many other people who use such symbols are actual fans of vikings, scandinavian culture, certain TV series' fans, including people who are non-white.
Perpetuating the idea that "hey look I got a cool Mjollnir tattoo"="I'm a nazi" only helps create more division.
From the forum rules: "You may attack ideas, but do so while being civil."
I hope this was civil enough. I'm literally attacking an idea, not a person.
I don't have the numbers, I admit, only my estimation. But, a minority within a country's worth of players compared to a subcontinent worth of players? Sure, there are far fewer MTG players in South America than in the US, but I'm pretty sure the vast vast majority of players in the US are white.
Why am I not bothered by a majority of white people in MTG art and lore? Purely because of what I said above: those are the vast majority of players and said group gives them the most money. From a marketing standpoint it makes sense, period. Plus, I've always considered the "overabundance" of white people to be fairly exaggerated. Even as a kid I remember MTG to be really diverse even in early years, from characters like Teferi to the characters in Mirage, places like Jamuraa, etc. If there's a majority of white people (and not an overwhelmingly large majority) it only makes sense since it's mostly whites that play it. If WOTC were honest enough it wouldn't be an issue, but then again, white guilt is highly marketable to white people.
Ok, now I won't say anything else about this topic. I don't want this thread to be closed.
I admit I went off-topic (and believe me, I'll go back to talking 100% about elves), but how is my opinion so problematic? I'm asking for representation, something that various other groups have done in this community with great success with nobody complaining.
As I said, I don't actually care that much about Latino representation. Kaldheim could be 100% Scandinavian looking people and it's be only acurate. I'm only pointing out what I think is fairly hypocritical using the same "victimhood" language.
This is exactly what bothers me. If you think people who prefer the viking plane to have mostly, well, viking looking people (just the same for Asians in Kamigawa, Latinos in Ixalan, etc) are "white supremacists", you are, honestly, wrong. I'm not a white supremacist, I'm not even white, yet I do prefer that.
Anyway, back to elves...