nah i couldnt read it all....there is a thread around here where a guy was upset that The Magic Show referred to the new knight lord as a "he" when the art was clearly a she....this thread was a bad as that.
Hahahaha really? I feel the same about your signature, so I'll just ignore it
Spam Warning - please just report posts like that instead of responding to them.
Yeah, revolution, opposition against the entablishment. Yeah, that sounds Red. But revolution against who? Against a benevolent and law-abiding king that selflessly cares for everyone? Or against a cruel tyrant who oppresses his people?
Yeah, violence also sounds Red. But don't forget White is the color of militarism, and if I'm a rebel working for justice and I encourage farmers and the proletariat to take up arms and fight for justice then I'm being very White. Heck, even Marx said there's no Communist revolution without violence, and you said you understood Communism as White.
And yeah, many heroes are focused in themselves to achieve their goals. But they do not achieve them for their own benefit. Many heroic goals are achieved for the benefit of others.
When me and my friends think of white, we think or gaining life, Wrath effects, soldiers and knights and odd trickery as well as single removal (Oust, Condemn, Path to Exile, Oblivion Ring, Demystify, just to name a few in standard).
DUDE! First post, first paragraph, is it too hard to read that first? I'm talking about PHILOSOPHY, FLAVOUR, NOT mechanics, cards, wrath effects, single removal and all that stuff.
I don't think those Che Guevara quotes sound "white" in a good way.
Wow, people, I guess I had a mistaken opinion on what's common people's opinion on White. It actually makes me happy to know a lot of people are "comfortable" with White's philosophy. It's just that I've seen A LOT of people in this forum hate White for the reasons I said.
First, Che Guevara wasn't that, but that's not for this forum probably. With that said, this character is likely Green and/or Red but maybe White, yes.
I'll try to roughly translate these (Sorry, English is not my first language):
Individualism as it is, as a person's aislated action in a social enviroment, must vanish from Cuba. Individualism must be, tomorrow, the complete realization of an individual's capacities in absolute benefit of a community. One of marxism's main objectives is to eliminate the interest, the "individual interest" factor, and personal gain from psycological motivations.
What we must practice today is solidarity. We must not approach to the people and say "Here we are. We come to give you the charity of our precense, to teach you with our presence, to teach you with our science, to show you your faults, your lack of culture, your lack of elemental knowledge". We must come in a researching manner, and with humble spirit, to learn from the great source of wisdom that is the people.
That sounds pretty White to me.
I can definitely say that is not what I think and you shouldn't assume that's what others think.
Speaking strictly from personal experience: I don't think I know anyone who ever thought this, or at the very least, thought this as their first impression of the color.
Oh, and thanks for that. It really makes me happy to know it (No sarcasm intended).
white values community and the group over the needs of the individual.
this entails fascism, communism, lack of personal freedom, etc. basically, white is the color of the typical dystopia.
most people bring up white's negatives because it is such a common misconception to believe that white can do no harm, which is quite the opposite of the interpretation you seem to have gotten from a lot of people.
You don't need to repeat me what I said in the beggining of the post.
"aah, that classist and oppressing aristocrat, the one who takes out one's freedom with their taxes and their religion and their rules and society norms while he sits comfortably in his throne! That stupid sheepish society that coerces you to do the same!"
I know what are White's flaws.
And, please, I know it's disorganized and hard to read, but please read a little bit through the thick of my argument to see my points before replying.
AND, I already said it in the beggining. I'm not talking about ALL the characteristics of White, just about some of them, that often get ignored.
EDIT: Oh, and dualmind is right. Just so you know, there can be also a Black dystopia.
Ok, so this is something that just bugs me a little with color White (not BSA, brokeness or mechanics), it's about the philosophy of color White and it's place in the color pie.
People, I don't want to start a flame war, since I consider myself a White mage, and I know all the hate to that color. So the thing is that I think White, along with Black, are colors too ambiguous in the way people interpret them, and I think people often make uninformed judgement about them.
So the thing is, when someone tells you about White, what does first come into your mind? People often think of the "aah, that classist and oppressing aristocrat, the one who takes out one's freedom with their taxes and their religion and their rules and society norms while he sits comfortably in his throne! That stupid sheepish society that coerces you to do the same!" and all that.
Well, first of all, the figure of the oppressing tyrant aristocrat looks more Black to me than White. Second, yeah, while the king in his throne or the knight in shining armour ARE White figures, there is also another figure worth mentioning. What can you say about that wandering trooper, the one who wants to create revolution and the uprising of the people and the farmers, and leads them against the cruel tyrant to make justice for all, a la Che Guevara? That is, to me, a VERY White figure. Or what about Jesus (to me, THE White character example)? A wandering priest, just walking around teaching people about being peaceful, about being humble and not to selfishly put yourself above others, that everyone is equal, about taking care of others, etc. He did NOT live in a tall temple, eating his chicken while the poor starved. He had faith in people (c'mon, he called to follow him a FISHERMAN and a TAX MAN, not rabi disciples). So sure, there are "thou shalt not do X", there are Ten Commandments, but what are they for? The greater good. Killing someone means that your life is more important than the other guy's; robbing someone means that it is better for YOU to have object X than the other guy. And what is the greater good good for? Well, that's because the Human Being is a SOCIAL animal. It needs to live and work with other people to thrive (heck, White's main race is Human, not robots. Humans FEEL, humans SHARE, humans BELIEVE). Or if you've seen The Lord of the Rings, that scene in the Return of the King when the Rohirrim all shouted "deaath" and charged against the Orcs. Sure, they are soldiers, they are following someone else's orders, but they all share the same belief, the same valor, the same anger, and they were willing to die for their nation. And that's pretty glorious IMO. Sometimes I think sharing something with someone else is better that having it alone. While I'm willing to fight for my ideals alone, I prefer to cry "deaaath" along 7.000 other people and draw swords together and charge together to fight for OUR ideals together (draw swords and charge in a methaphorical sense of course).
Well, just that. I think people have a misconception on what's White really about, and I just wanted to show my opinion. And dude, thanks a lot if you actually read the whole post.
Gotta agree with Pringlesman and Bristol. So you people think that just because an art is not an homogenous photo-realistic super-dark illustration that art is bad? It seems you do not know nothing of art. There's a word called Impressionism I'd like you to know. There's a word called Abstractionism I'd like you to know. And guess what, they're all ART. And they ALL have a place in Magic. Just because it's not a SUPER COOL AND BADDASS CREATURE it doesn't mean it's not art.
Stasis. Walk the Aeons. Telling Time. Do you think a SUPER COOL AND BADDASS FIREBREATHING DRAGON!!!ONE! or a Vengevine fits into that subject matter? They're ethereal, abstract concepts. Sure, some Drew Tucker's pieces are lame, but they fit into the dream-like, abstract realm very well. Same with Rebbecca Guay. Her artwork is awesome. So, magical, so story-book like. Feels like Magic and Fantasy better than Raymond Swanland does.
John Avon's art is sometimes in my opinion a bit too cold or artificial, the way it feels. Like honden of infinite rage, I don't like that art. Or anger. Today 11:40 AM
That's called Contrast. Don't know if you know it, it's a basic art principle. Not everything has to be a blurry and misty opacity photoshop mess.
Haven't read the thread, but the thing is, Poker is about gambling, is about money. There's no way Magic can compete with that. In fact, Magic makes you lose a lot of money.
Silex, yeah, I thought someone would say that, that's why I said "some exceptions of course", those being, say, Raymond Swanland, Volkan Baga, Michael Komarck, to say some. But there are ones, and I quicly scanned thorugh my RoE binder just to check, Chris Rahn, Jason A. Engle, Anthony Francisco, Kekai Kotaki, for example, are not recognizable at all at first sight. In contrast to, say, a Wayne Reynolds piece next to a Rebecca Guay one (two artists that I particularly enjoy and like).
The problem with Swanland is not being homogeneous between other artists, is being homogeneous between his own pieces. And I already explained that in my previous post.
The new art is not "bad" actually. It's just boring. And I'm not against digital, but I think it's digital the one to blame about this. It's so monotone, so homogeneous, even to the point I can't even recognize each artist's individual style (some exceptions of course). This is a serious problem IMO. C'mon, Raymond Swanland? All his stuff is the same. Sure, I get all the hype about him because "OMG HIS CREATURES ARE SO BADDASS THEY'RE SO COOL!" thing, but his lightning, his dynamics, the shapes, are all the same (note, not the "same style", they're the same. Seriously.) I'm not against realism either, in fact, my favourite era of magic art is something between Invasion and Onslaught. It was realistic, but it was painterly. It was heterogeneous. It was, in the end, more "magical". I'm not against digital or realistic. I'm against monotony. I want every artist to have his own style, to be particularly recognized for his art.
My philosophy in art (I'm an artist) is all about effectivity. You can use whatever tools you like to make a good picture: Photoshop, models, taking photographs then painting from them, etc. But when effectivity takes over quality, then there's something wrong in this. And I think this is happening in magic art lately.
Hahahaha really? I feel the same about your signature, so I'll just ignore it
Spam Warning - please just report posts like that instead of responding to them.
Yeah, violence also sounds Red. But don't forget White is the color of militarism, and if I'm a rebel working for justice and I encourage farmers and the proletariat to take up arms and fight for justice then I'm being very White. Heck, even Marx said there's no Communist revolution without violence, and you said you understood Communism as White.
And yeah, many heroes are focused in themselves to achieve their goals. But they do not achieve them for their own benefit. Many heroic goals are achieved for the benefit of others.
DUDE! First post, first paragraph, is it too hard to read that first? I'm talking about PHILOSOPHY, FLAVOUR, NOT mechanics, cards, wrath effects, single removal and all that stuff.
But they sound White anyways
I'll try to roughly translate these (Sorry, English is not my first language):
That sounds pretty White to me.
Oh, and thanks for that. It really makes me happy to know it (No sarcasm intended).
You don't need to repeat me what I said in the beggining of the post. I know what are White's flaws.
And, please, I know it's disorganized and hard to read, but please read a little bit through the thick of my argument to see my points before replying.
AND, I already said it in the beggining. I'm not talking about ALL the characteristics of White, just about some of them, that often get ignored.
EDIT: Oh, and dualmind is right. Just so you know, there can be also a Black dystopia.
Ok, so this is something that just bugs me a little with color White (not BSA, brokeness or mechanics), it's about the philosophy of color White and it's place in the color pie.
People, I don't want to start a flame war, since I consider myself a White mage, and I know all the hate to that color. So the thing is that I think White, along with Black, are colors too ambiguous in the way people interpret them, and I think people often make uninformed judgement about them.
So the thing is, when someone tells you about White, what does first come into your mind? People often think of the "aah, that classist and oppressing aristocrat, the one who takes out one's freedom with their taxes and their religion and their rules and society norms while he sits comfortably in his throne! That stupid sheepish society that coerces you to do the same!" and all that.
Well, first of all, the figure of the oppressing tyrant aristocrat looks more Black to me than White. Second, yeah, while the king in his throne or the knight in shining armour ARE White figures, there is also another figure worth mentioning. What can you say about that wandering trooper, the one who wants to create revolution and the uprising of the people and the farmers, and leads them against the cruel tyrant to make justice for all, a la Che Guevara? That is, to me, a VERY White figure. Or what about Jesus (to me, THE White character example)? A wandering priest, just walking around teaching people about being peaceful, about being humble and not to selfishly put yourself above others, that everyone is equal, about taking care of others, etc. He did NOT live in a tall temple, eating his chicken while the poor starved. He had faith in people (c'mon, he called to follow him a FISHERMAN and a TAX MAN, not rabi disciples). So sure, there are "thou shalt not do X", there are Ten Commandments, but what are they for? The greater good. Killing someone means that your life is more important than the other guy's; robbing someone means that it is better for YOU to have object X than the other guy. And what is the greater good good for? Well, that's because the Human Being is a SOCIAL animal. It needs to live and work with other people to thrive (heck, White's main race is Human, not robots. Humans FEEL, humans SHARE, humans BELIEVE). Or if you've seen The Lord of the Rings, that scene in the Return of the King when the Rohirrim all shouted "deaath" and charged against the Orcs. Sure, they are soldiers, they are following someone else's orders, but they all share the same belief, the same valor, the same anger, and they were willing to die for their nation. And that's pretty glorious IMO. Sometimes I think sharing something with someone else is better that having it alone. While I'm willing to fight for my ideals alone, I prefer to cry "deaaath" along 7.000 other people and draw swords together and charge together to fight for OUR ideals together (draw swords and charge in a methaphorical sense of course).
Well, just that. I think people have a misconception on what's White really about, and I just wanted to show my opinion. And dude, thanks a lot if you actually read the whole post.
What? Just go back a page and read Bristol's, Pringlesman and my comments. Don't feel cool because you think you're alone here. You're not.
Read my previous post.
Stasis. Walk the Aeons. Telling Time. Do you think a SUPER COOL AND BADDASS FIREBREATHING DRAGON!!!ONE! or a Vengevine fits into that subject matter? They're ethereal, abstract concepts. Sure, some Drew Tucker's pieces are lame, but they fit into the dream-like, abstract realm very well. Same with Rebbecca Guay. Her artwork is awesome. So, magical, so story-book like. Feels like Magic and Fantasy better than Raymond Swanland does.
That's called Contrast. Don't know if you know it, it's a basic art principle. Not everything has to be a blurry and misty opacity photoshop mess.
The problem with Swanland is not being homogeneous between other artists, is being homogeneous between his own pieces. And I already explained that in my previous post.
My philosophy in art (I'm an artist) is all about effectivity. You can use whatever tools you like to make a good picture: Photoshop, models, taking photographs then painting from them, etc. But when effectivity takes over quality, then there's something wrong in this. And I think this is happening in magic art lately.