Tron is a hard Matchup for any rock deck. Our removals are outclassed by their threats.
Even for Jund who has access to Sowing Salt.
As a Tron player you should look to drop Karn/Wurmcoil as early as possible as Rock really has no 1 for 1 answer for that (except for Maelstrom Pulse for Karn, but he would have exiled a card anyway).
R1 vs Infect - Win - 2-1
R2 vs Merfolk - Win - 2-0
R3 vs Geist Twin - Loss 1-2
R4 vs Living End - Win - 2-1
R5 vs UWR Control - Draw
R6 vs Junk - Win - 2-0
R7 vs Affinity - Loss - 1-2
I lost my win and in to top8 against affinity. It went to 3 games but I did not correctly assess the situation and played around too much on what could he "topdeck".
This caused me to play very defensively and I ended up prioritizing gaining life via Scooze instead of playing more goyfs. Well... Lesson Learned.
Notes:
- Should probably fit in the 4th Scooze somewhere in the 75.
- Coming from Jund, I didn't miss the Lightning Bolts that much but Treetop Village is a slow finisher. Compared to Raging Ravine obviously.
I would just like to point out that there are merits to both builds.
1) There are better finishers than Emrakul... (true but...)
- Mindslaver lock costs 13 mana to pull off (including academy ruins), Emrakul with Eye of Ugin in play also costs 13 mana.
- Other threats/fatties are good but they don't end the game quickly and can be answered (although not most of the time), granted Emrakul could be answered as well, but you at least would have annihilated for 6.
- But to be fair, these threats come down earlier and are more impactful (i.e. Sundering Titan, Platinum Angel)
2) Not that tutorable
- Emrakul fits well with the trinket mage package, as it can search for Expedition Map, which searches for Eye of Ugin or you could search for the Eye with Tolaria West.
3) You are making aggro matchups horrible
- Granted it would suck to draw him early against aggro and that would be its main drawback, you could pitch it to thirst for knowledge. But by having this one card that you know would be enough later, you could probably trim down on other fatties/threats and play more early game interactions (counterspells/targetted removals).
So in summary,
- Both builds are good.
- Treasure Mages go with Slaver Lock and 6 mana or above artifact threats.
- Trinket Mages go with toolbox builds (chalice, pithing, relic) for early game interactions and would be better with the Emrakul finish.
I've been testing with Garruk, Wildspeaker as a 1-of.
And I am impressed, it synergizes well with Treetop Village, especially when you are stuck with 4 lands.
It allows you to still attack with 2 Treetop Villages.
Interesting thoughts... just thinking it might be soon because of the way they are pushing modern, with it being an FNM format and then Modern Masters in June next year.
if you want to go down the FOWless route, you may want to use 4 of daze and spell pierce, but if combo is not a force in your meta, then 3-3 is good enough and just go heavy on the burn.
Grim is good but I would only run 3 of him as drawing multiples is not so good.
With regards to vexing devil, I am sure it has been discussed before, he belongs in Burn and not in a Tempo build like Delver.
The thing with Vexing Devil as a first turn play is he does not stick, sure he would deal 4 damage but what next? With guide and delver you have a chance to protect them with counter-magic, which is one of the main reason this deck runs counterspells (the added protection against combo decks especially game1 is a bonus).
i was wondering a couple of thing. Is that a one-hit wonder that did well in a particular meta? why the single polluted delta? to mind trick the opponent in the first couple of turn in game 1? its not to smooth the mana for dismember, there is not even a dismember in it... talking of dismember, would it be good in the sideboard vs batterskull or a small tarmo? i don't have a big knowledge of the meta in legacy, but i play sulfur elemental against what? And with the lack of FOW, don't i need a hard conterspell because daze/spell pierce won't be usefull for all the game?
The single polluted delta or any island fetch land is just for that purpose, tricking the opponent and for surgical extractions (but that only happens like 0.01% of the time :D)
As for running dismembers, it is not necessary, batterskull is dealt with by smash to smithereens and tarmo is delayed by submerge.
Sulfur Elemental is used to kill Mother of Runes and Thalia against Maverick.
And as for FOW, there is no replacement for it sadly, you can run counterspell or even mana leak but that is too subpar compared to FOW. You said you can get your hands on 1 or 2, then just add Spell Snare as another hard counter to those pesky 2 drops.
A good thing to note is Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (if you use it) fixes this concern as well, letting you at least use your fetches as swamps.
Those were 2 Slaughter Pacts. I edited the list above. Good catch!
Even for Jund who has access to Sowing Salt.
As a Tron player you should look to drop Karn/Wurmcoil as early as possible as Rock really has no 1 for 1 answer for that (except for Maelstrom Pulse for Karn, but he would have exiled a card anyway).
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Lingering Souls
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Dismember
1 Disfigure
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Twilight Mire
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
1 Damnation
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Batterskull
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Golgari Charm
Matchups:
R1 vs Infect - Win - 2-1
R2 vs Merfolk - Win - 2-0
R3 vs Geist Twin - Loss 1-2
R4 vs Living End - Win - 2-1
R5 vs UWR Control - Draw
R6 vs Junk - Win - 2-0
R7 vs Affinity - Loss - 1-2
I lost my win and in to top8 against affinity. It went to 3 games but I did not correctly assess the situation and played around too much on what could he "topdeck".
This caused me to play very defensively and I ended up prioritizing gaining life via Scooze instead of playing more goyfs. Well... Lesson Learned.
Notes:
- Should probably fit in the 4th Scooze somewhere in the 75.
- Coming from Jund, I didn't miss the Lightning Bolts that much but Treetop Village is a slow finisher. Compared to Raging Ravine obviously.
I would just like to point out that there are merits to both builds.
1) There are better finishers than Emrakul... (true but...)
- Mindslaver lock costs 13 mana to pull off (including academy ruins), Emrakul with Eye of Ugin in play also costs 13 mana.
- Other threats/fatties are good but they don't end the game quickly and can be answered (although not most of the time), granted Emrakul could be answered as well, but you at least would have annihilated for 6.
- But to be fair, these threats come down earlier and are more impactful (i.e. Sundering Titan, Platinum Angel)
2) Not that tutorable
- Emrakul fits well with the trinket mage package, as it can search for Expedition Map, which searches for Eye of Ugin or you could search for the Eye with Tolaria West.
3) You are making aggro matchups horrible
- Granted it would suck to draw him early against aggro and that would be its main drawback, you could pitch it to thirst for knowledge. But by having this one card that you know would be enough later, you could probably trim down on other fatties/threats and play more early game interactions (counterspells/targetted removals).
So in summary,
- Both builds are good.
- Treasure Mages go with Slaver Lock and 6 mana or above artifact threats.
- Trinket Mages go with toolbox builds (chalice, pithing, relic) for early game interactions and would be better with the Emrakul finish.
And I am impressed, it synergizes well with Treetop Village, especially when you are stuck with 4 lands.
It allows you to still attack with 2 Treetop Villages.
I like the trinket mage package!
The aetherize could probably be replace by the New M15 Card Ætherspouts
Tobias Andrion
Fountain of Cho
Ulamog, The Infinite Gyre
Thoughts?
Grim is good but I would only run 3 of him as drawing multiples is not so good.
With regards to vexing devil, I am sure it has been discussed before, he belongs in Burn and not in a Tempo build like Delver.
The thing with Vexing Devil as a first turn play is he does not stick, sure he would deal 4 damage but what next? With guide and delver you have a chance to protect them with counter-magic, which is one of the main reason this deck runs counterspells (the added protection against combo decks especially game1 is a bonus).
The single polluted delta or any island fetch land is just for that purpose, tricking the opponent and for surgical extractions (but that only happens like 0.01% of the time :D)
As for running dismembers, it is not necessary, batterskull is dealt with by smash to smithereens and tarmo is delayed by submerge.
Sulfur Elemental is used to kill Mother of Runes and Thalia against Maverick.
And as for FOW, there is no replacement for it sadly, you can run counterspell or even mana leak but that is too subpar compared to FOW. You said you can get your hands on 1 or 2, then just add Spell Snare as another hard counter to those pesky 2 drops.
Hope this helps