Quote from VkandisSo you got hit by a god hand -- Duress plus 3 Blightnings--yeah that sucks but that far from proves the power of the deck. Not being able to keep Mind Sludge? One Blightning is not going to force you to lose Mind Sludge. Grim Discovery is your answer to Blightning--pitch a land, and a creature, get them back.
Deathmark out of the side board for Disfigure kills all the green stuff you are worried about even if they are pumped. If Oran is going to be common in Jund builds then add land destruction to the sideboard. Has added use in 5 CC match ups as well as WW which are running Emeria.
Their Oran is not being used prior to T5, if it is then they are slowing down their deck and playing right into your Mind Sludge. They really not going to drop their BBE on T4 so they can drop it T5 with an Oran boost? Better hope they made every land drop--or its headed to the bin. You have Duress as well to protect your Mind Sludge. Sadistic Sacraments Oran away.
And if they are siding out removal to bring in their control cards, then all the better they are making my creatures better. If they side out creatures to bring in control cards then all the better, I have Duress and Sadistic Sacrament post board, plus an additional Mind Sludge.
They use their Jund Charm to remove their graveyard, rather than mine so I can Grim Discovery back threats and land, better for me. Plus they are not using it to pump a creature they have on board or to use as removal if I have some knights and hexmages on the board.
Yeah Jund is not a cake walk. Lamenting about how this deck's game versus Jund is pointless--no deck right now has Jund over a barrel--otherwise everyone would be playing it. This deck has answers to what Jund wants and likes to do. And right now that is all you can ask for.
Quote from VkandisEven if they cascade, you have a hand full of stuff and they are top decking the rest of the game. And keep in mind that Mind Sludge is probably sending some of sick recovery ability to the bin. Heck my favorite Mind Sludge was sending 3 BBEs to the bin--don't ask me why he did not play one on T4, would still have gotten 2 of them.
With Sign and Blood and Grim Discovery you can have serious card advantage. Every time I have played Jund and resolved a Mind Sludge, even without a Haunting Echoes, have never been worried as I have 5-7 cards in hand. With Sign in Blood and Grim Discovery I have better card advantage, can recycle Gatekeepers, Castles, or whatever creature they may have pulsed.
I have my threats in hand (Sorin, Bloodwitch) or on board in the form of Gargoyle Castle. They now have to draw an answer to those threats. If they do, kudos to them, I ll ride my deck's card advantage to their ability to top deck one of their remaining cascade spells. And if they start rebulding their hand, their is always another chance of them being sludged again. Not saying this match up is easy but it is far from a serious problem.
Post Sludge, every card you have in hand is a threat they have to answer as well--the only difference is their answers are not in their hand, and they are reacting based on whatever they draw. It is not like you have dead cards in this match up.
Quote from SweetappleOne of the big variations we seem to have is in our finishers. Sorin is pretty much a beast in and of himself, but a single big creature is always great. Nightmare has come up, as has Nyaxthid, both of which have their benefits. Bloodwitch seems to be a favorite, most notably due to the fact that she is immune to doomblade, path, and lightning bolt, with the mini drain life effect as a cherry on top.
I run three Ob Nixilises, which I normally play as a 6 drop, hitting for three at least on the turn I drop him and possibly attacking for 9 (plus another three damage) if I can drop a seventh land. I like him because he mitigates the damage of late game mana flood, making otherwise useless late game swamps work for me. I've found that normally by that late in the game I've killed pretty much all their blockers as well, or at least enough for a Nighthawk or Hexmage to slip in while they chump the giant demon with their top decked creatures. Downside is he is legendary, can get instantly killed by a lightning bolt, and doesn't benefit from any swamps played before he hits the field. I do run the bloodwitches in the side however, and would side Ob out in a second against a deck that can consistantly kill him.
Not sure what else is there to consider, but I will say that anyone who runs the Bloodchief of Ghet is crazy.
Quote from movingtonewaodid you test a lot? if you only play one match you cant just conclude "duress/mindsludge dont help"
Quote from arrow_runnerAnyone tried Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet ? It seems like good card advantage and beatings at the same time to me.
Quote from doomdgThird, if you resolve a mind sludge you should win. period.
Quote from doomdgMy bad, I thought it was like R/U/W ascension/walker build..
4 color planeswalkers control? interesting.. They might even have Nicol Bolas(who is a house in this format).... How's their mana base?
Quote from doomdgHexmages and needles are wonderful here.. Malakir bloodwitch is immune to almost everything they have as well
Quote from KriggYHm, maybe because when you draw it in a late game, you can deal last 6-8 damage to your oponent?
Quote from Namida »I haven't played against Cascade yet, but I can see where you're coming from. A lot of decks like that just require you to play Tendrils and the ilk to keep your head above water, and just play to win before they can beat you.
I've had few problems with mill. You play out creatures and pressure them--Don't let them play solitaire and just Mill you out, make them waste turns on your guys and such. Not playing Fetchlands really slows them down, and you can play Hexmage to deal with Jace, or you can play Consume Spirit, or Sorin...I play Sadistic Sacrament out of the Board to deal with Archive Traps. Not having to rely on them playing one or making them discard one and then playing Echoes on turn 5 (as opposed to turn 3) seems better to me. Even then, Mind Funeral should hurt you more than Archive Trap does. I can usually rip a few Traps out of their hand before turn 5. If they want to play it at the end of my fifth turn, they're going to be screwed because I just played a bomb and they needed to counter it. If they tap out to play it on their fifth turn, I resolve one of those aforementioned bombs and I win the game. If you have any good cards they need to counter, you're going to set them back a turn or two and you can only hope to capitalize on the tempo. Basically, If they tap out in the early game to make you mill, you punish them by playing Vampire Nighthawk or Gatekeeper and knock away at their life and make less work for your finisher. Mind Funeral does just as much as Archive Trap on Average, I've found, and it screws me a few times because it always gets four lands. On turn three, honestly, I usually wanted a few of those lands. However, my deck loves/hates me and my opponents get about six cards on average (if it's not one of those awesome four land piles that I often seem to get). Just remember that mill decks apply little to no pressure to the board or to your hand. If you can control either one, you can win with little effort. If they wait until the end of the game to mill you, you can make them discard all of their mill.