I'm almost there on Worm Harvest too, probably will come out for Pharika's Mender to stay in theme. But I actually like Spider Spawning quite a bit. Maybe it's because I'm not as big on Grizzly Fate, but I think the two are pretty similar in power. Three 1/2 reach tokens are about two 2/2 bears for me, and I don't seem to hit threshhold a ton outside of dedicated decks, but getting 5-6 spiders instead of 4 bears is fine by me.
Are there any other token makers for these decks besides the aforementioned cards and Beast Attack?
I would feel weird cutting Sprout Swarm right now, but when I think about it now, Sprout Swarm is more of an engine card than anything else.
That said, there are a lot of really powerful 2-card combinations with it. Sacrifice outlets, token support, mass pump. And it really is still a class of its own for those purposes.
Yeah, my list there is pretty old. I don't have regular computer access to fully update my spreadsheet and make the posts necessary to keep the thread current.
EDIT: Speaking of sweepers, I've been testing out Sea God's Revenge. It's been okay. It's pretty good in some situations, and not as good in others. Still testing because it has blowout potential, especially if you can follow up with a strong attack.
If there was more 3 damage sweepers, I'd be happy. Famine is probably the next one in for me, but even that's not great since you also take 3.
Any other ideas?
If you don't want control-specific cards in your cube, that's one thing, but I don't understand why you're assessing a control card's usefulness in an aggro deck.
The idea is to make a switch where aggro gains a lot more than control loses. If, on a 1-to-10 scale, Pyroclasm is a 8 for control and a 2 for aggro, but Pyrokinesis is a 6 for control and a 5 for aggro, that might be better.
It depends on whether or not you agree with those numbers and whether or not it's worth the change, but I think we're in the ballpark here.
Would you say Pyrokinesis is better for aggro than Pyroclasm? I certainly think so, because a 0-mana 2-for-2 might sometimes be a strong enough tempo play for aggro. In that case, I'd be swapping out a more controlling card for a slightly-less controlling one, which I like.
The impression I'm getting from various feedback is that Contagion and Pyrokinesis are both pretty solid aggro cards because of their free options and decent enough for midrange and control because of their 3-for-1 capabilities.
I like cutting Pyroclasm for Pyrokinesis and I'm not yet sure on a Contagion cut.
I've been testing out Flicker quite a bit, and it's surprising how many uses it has. I've seen it fix mana, draw cards off Prophetic Prism, save creatures, re-use ETB abilities, create extra fliers off of Wing Splicer, and my absolute favorite: surprise 4/4 Epochrasite.
So, we spent some time discussing cube worthy duals we'd like them to print. How about cube worthy 5-color lands?
5-Color Land #1
Land (C)
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose a color.
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Tap: Add one mana of the chosen color to your mana pool.
Mostly worse than Terramorphic and Evolving Wilds, but still cube worthy.
5-Color Land #2
Land (U)
~ enters the battlefield with two charge counters on it.
Tap, remove a charge counter from ~: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if no charge counters are on ~.
I also think Tendo Ice Bridge could be an uncommon, maybe at two counters.
Temple of Blasphemy
Land (U)
Tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Activate this ability only if you control four or more lands. The louder their voices spoke, the less their words were considers 'blasphemous.'
Temple of the Harvest
Land (U)
Tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Activate this ability only if you control four or fewer lands. As the word of the splendid harvest grew, the size of the splendid harvest shrunk.
Both of these are inspired by someone, somewhere, who came up with the first one as a spin on Temple of the False God.
Seeing the talk here about Mongrel is inspiring me to cut it for a card I just ordered in foil to test, at everyone's behest: Darkthicket Wolf.
The cards are pretty similar in how they threaten while in combat, but the externalities of Mongrel aren't enough right now to keep it. I'll have to see if Wolf is really good enough for that spot.
@inscho: I almost forgot about that I'm trying to test that archetype right now. Well, I'm sure I'll find something to cut for Darkthicket Wolf.
I just wanted to talk about one of my favorite pet cards that I don't think people play: Withdraw.
It fluctuates between an instant-speed Undo and Peel from Reality. Worst case scenario is an Unsummon that makes your opponent pay 1 more too.
Played it last night and love it, so making sure everyone knows about it.
Are there any other token makers for these decks besides the aforementioned cards and Beast Attack?
That said, there are a lot of really powerful 2-card combinations with it. Sacrifice outlets, token support, mass pump. And it really is still a class of its own for those purposes.
EDIT: Speaking of sweepers, I've been testing out Sea God's Revenge. It's been okay. It's pretty good in some situations, and not as good in others. Still testing because it has blowout potential, especially if you can follow up with a strong attack.
Firespout and Savage Twister are good, but they got knocked out of Gruul a while back.
If there was more 3 damage sweepers, I'd be happy. Famine is probably the next one in for me, but even that's not great since you also take 3.
Any other ideas?
The idea is to make a switch where aggro gains a lot more than control loses. If, on a 1-to-10 scale, Pyroclasm is a 8 for control and a 2 for aggro, but Pyrokinesis is a 6 for control and a 5 for aggro, that might be better.
It depends on whether or not you agree with those numbers and whether or not it's worth the change, but I think we're in the ballpark here.
I like cutting Pyroclasm for Pyrokinesis and I'm not yet sure on a Contagion cut.
It's been well worth including.
Do you think it would be cube-worthy at 'three or fewer lands?'
I know some people play with Ghostly Flicker and Turn to Mist, which seem very good too.
I think any bounce spell is decent, particularly anything with an added effect: Repulse, Jilt, and Far / Away.
5-Color Land #1
Land (C)
As ~ enters the battlefield, choose a color.
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Tap: Add one mana of the chosen color to your mana pool.
Mostly worse than Terramorphic and Evolving Wilds, but still cube worthy.
5-Color Land #2
Land (U)
~ enters the battlefield with two charge counters on it.
Tap, remove a charge counter from ~: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if no charge counters are on ~.
I also think Tendo Ice Bridge could be an uncommon, maybe at two counters.
Temple of Blasphemy
Land (U)
Tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Activate this ability only if you control four or more lands.
The louder their voices spoke, the less their words were considers 'blasphemous.'
Temple of the Harvest
Land (U)
Tap: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Activate this ability only if you control four or fewer lands.
As the word of the splendid harvest grew, the size of the splendid harvest shrunk.
Both of these are inspired by someone, somewhere, who came up with the first one as a spin on Temple of the False God.
The cards are pretty similar in how they threaten while in combat, but the externalities of Mongrel aren't enough right now to keep it. I'll have to see if Wolf is really good enough for that spot.
@inscho: I almost forgot about that I'm trying to test that archetype right now. Well, I'm sure I'll find something to cut for Darkthicket Wolf.
It fluctuates between an instant-speed Undo and Peel from Reality. Worst case scenario is an Unsummon that makes your opponent pay 1 more too.
Played it last night and love it, so making sure everyone knows about it.