Question that came up when discussing Meteor Golem in the M19 thread:
"Given how expensive they are to cast, what does a card have to do to be worth CUbing if it costs 6+ mana? Does it have to impact the board some AND have great stats? Can it just impact the board a bunch? Can it just be a stats monster?"
Really interested to try and find the line here, because I am always interested in finding respectable cards that are worth their weight for any potential ramp/reanimation decks.
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Jul 12, 2018rancoredmalone posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Jul 12, 2018A few thoughts in this ongoing discussion:Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
1) I think the 3/3 body is reasonably relevant in combat, especially given that (likely) the best creature on the opponent's board was destroyed when the Golem hit the battlefield. Also, I would agree that Opportunity is the other least "impacting the board" 6+ drop people typically play.
2) In regards to the "adding CMCs together" method of card evaluation, I think a good part of the evaluation of these cards kind of includes the fact that these two cards are stapled together on a single card*. For something like Angler Drake, no one plays Air Elemental at 5 mana and no one plays Unsummon at 1 mana. The fact that they are tied together matters most. Even then, I will admit the absolute tippy-top CUbe cards either provide their combination at a low mana cost or with a strong return on investment.
No one would run Onakke Ogre for 3 mana, but add a 1-mana Flame Slash and you get a stable in Flametongue Kavu.
And I do imagine most people would be fine paying 4 mana for a 5/5 token AND also would be fine paying 2 mana to gain 10 life, hence playing Feudkiller's Verdict.
By this measure, I think Meteor Golem barely gets by for larger CUbes, as a colorless 3/3 for 3 is below average and a 4-mana pseudo Vindicate is average, but then you get them bundled into one.
3) Given how expensive they are to cast, what does a card have to do to be worth CUbing if it costs 6+ mana? Does it have to impact the board some AND have great stats? Can it just impact the board a bunch? Can it just be a stats monster? I will also post this in the general Peasant discussion thread because I am interested to hear feedback.
[*Note: There's a moment in the film "Thank You For Smoking" where Rob Lowe's movie executive character explains to the tobacco marketer how it would be $10 million to get Brad Pitt to smoke in their movie, $10 million to get Catherine Zita-Jones to smoke in their movie, but $25 million to get them to both smoke together. When asked why it would cost even more for both of them to smoke together in the movie, Rob Lowe replies "Synergy."]
Jul 11, 2018If the general point is that "answers" or cards that primarily answer other cards should never be 7 mana, that's an interesting discussion topic. I think that having a 7 drop whose worst case scenario is trading with the opponent's best permanent and then trading for at least half of a card (which becomes harder for the opponent to do now that they lost their best permanent) is fine.Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Given that none of our 7+ mana drops literally win the game the turn thy are played (compared to cards like Craterhoof or Tooth and Nail), they all end up being a balance between impacting the board even if removed and being great attackers and Golem falls clearly towards impacting the board with its ETB.
I am not going to claim Golem is an all-star stable, but it is playable at larger CUbe sizes.
Jul 9, 2018What do people think of Meteor Golem compared to other 7+ CMC colorless creatures?Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
I run 3 currently with Bane of Bala Ged, Breaker of Armies, and Artisan of Kozilek.
I think you can justify the 7 drops for late game Control decks, but these are mostly ramp/reanimation options. I think I would rather have Meteor Golem over Breaker of Armies and Bane of Bala Ged since Golem has an impact regardless just for entering the battlefield, although the others are much more devastating as early reanimation targets.
I think I am going to swap Golem in for Breaker, but would hear preferences towards either.
Jun 26, 2018Your experience with Lorwyn was way different than mine. Triple Lorwyn is probably my second favorite draft format ever (behind full Time Spiral block) since there were so many different things you could do thanks to Changelings and the weird cross-tribal cards at common like Kithkin Greatheart, Quill-Slinger Boggart, Boggart Sprite-Chaser, Bog-Strider Ash, Elvish Handservant and others. In addition, there was a ton of weird build around cards at uncommon like Ceaseless Searblades, Drowner of Secrets, Merrow Commerce, Thorntooth Witch, Thundercloud Shaman.Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
I also thought the class matters stuff in Morningtide was a little too much to keep track of since you basically jumped from 8 tribes to 13 tribes.
If there was a way to scale that down to 10 relevant creature types, keep changelings, lose clash and lose chaff, that would probably be excellent.
Jun 25, 2018I am not complaining about my own restraints. It is actually interesting going so deep into a set, because it does make you think about what actually makes a good CUbe card. It is also kind of funny that for 4 of the last 5 sets (all but Rivals of Ixalan), I eventually added cards to my CUbe that I did not even have in my initial top 20. Maybe that means I should do top 30?Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
EDIT: Double checked, and I only added cards outside the top 20 for 2 of the last 5 sets (Time of Ice, Song of Freyalise, and Gust Walker). I did, however, add cards outside my top 15 from 2 other of the last 5 sets (Firebrand Archer and Adanto Vanguard).
Jun 24, 2018Finally got a chance to sit down and do my traditional way too early top 20. It was not particularly easy to find 20 cards in a set with so many reprints, and I am only adding 5 of these cards in total. I always rank these based on my excitement level to CUbe, so you may see more speculative cards higher on this list.Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
20) Aven Wind Mage- Similar, but weaker than similar 3-mana Izzet cards. May have been a higher consideration from a set without so many other good blue 3-drops.
19) Heroic Reinforcements- Much weaker than most of the other good mass pump options in Boros, but does help go wide a little bit better.
18) Plague Mare- Only a 2/2 and double black at 3 mana, but could maybe kill multiple creatures sometimes.
17) Skyscanner- Would probably rather have search for a basic over draw a card from this, but your preferences may vary.
16) Lightning Mare- Powerful for a two drop, but double red makes casting it too much of a hassle.
15) Poison-Tip Archer- Body is a bit below rate, but the death trigger could make it interesting for those token/sacrifice decks.
14) Volley Veteran- Would be much more excited if I felt like this constantly did 2 damage. Not impossible if more good Goblins are printed.
13) Cavalry Drillmaster and 12) Viashino Pyromancer- Both add some damage when they ETB. Pyromancer is a consistent 2 damage on ETB while Drillmaster is inconsistent but could sometimes punch through more than 2 damage. However, two mana 2/1s with no combat abilities better do something good to impact the board if they want to be cubed.
11) Skyrider Patrol- Body is certainly below rate, but could do a great job piling on extra damage while it is on the board.
10) Siegebreaker Giant- A bit frail for five mana, but it hits hard alone and its ability could lead to some very good attacks.
9) Satyr Enchanter- My CUbe is not really anywhere close to making this work, but I cannot help but be interested in such a powerful build-around.
8) Vine Mare- 3 toughness is a bummer, but a 5-power hexproof creature for 2GG certainly has lots of potential power.
7) Meteor Golem- Not too far from what I look for in a ramp/reanimation target since it can have a very strong impact on ETB.
6) Militia Bugler- While I do not think this requires a ton of build around work, I am not convinced the power level is there. I would rather have Sunscourge Champoion and its guaranteed 4/4 after death than a 60-70% chance to draw a creature, which could be low impact. Champion has been good, but not great, so I will leave Bugler behind.
5) Goblin Motivator- I do not particularly love most of my red 1-drops, but Bloodlust Inciter has been okay enough that I want a second copy rather than some of my other current red 1-drops.
4) Vampire Sovereign- Between being a decent-sized flier, making an opponent lose 3 life and gaining you 3 life, Sovereign is going to matter in almost every match-up and be pretty powerful is most of those match-ups too.
3) Mirror Image- Less versatile than Clone, but probably will be just as powerful in most situations, so very happy for that 1-mana discount off Clone.
2) Departed Deckhand- Even with the drawback, the sheer power of a 2/2 unblockable for 2-mana is impossible to ignore. Feels like a blue Soltari Trooper, all the way down to being awful against Flame Jab and Arc Lightning.
1) Exclusion Mage- This effect is historically very strong and fits in all types of blue decks. I can understand there being lots of similar effects at 3-mana in blue, but this is better than all but Man-o-War.
Jun 18, 2018More fun new cards that showed up in the Card Image Gallery today:Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Mirror Image- Gives up a good piece of Clone's functionality (copying opposing creatures) in exchange for a one-mana discount. I think I like this quite a bit, because I feel like a lot of the Clone decks I build are also heavy on ETB creatures. Either a more rampy deck with the big 7 drops (Pelakka Wurm, Trostani's Summoner) or a control deck with 2-for-1 creatures (Shriekmaw, Fire Imp). I think copying is a strong enough effect to have a weaker, cheaper version be playable.
Volley Veteran- Speaking of weaker versions... Flametongue Kavu this ain't, BUT even a 4/2 for 4 that can deal 2 damage to a creature could be pretty good. I surprisingly only have 10 other Goblins in my 512 card CUbe, but three of them make multiple tokens. Might be worth ticking up the Goblin support a smidge.
Satyr Enchanter- You know what, the enchantment support in Selesnya is starting to look better and better as a build-around theme. Not that Satyr Enchanter is the tipping point, but if you can reasonable draw 1 card off of Enchanter, it is probably worth consideration.
Jun 15, 2018Some more recent spoilers:Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Cavalry Drillmaster- A 2/1 for 1W with a sorcery-speed combat trick attached. I suppose this will get a creature through more often than not, but is awkward on turn 2 when you might not have a creature to pump. Decent ceiling, but pretty crummy floor.
Exclusion Mage- Oh boy. I did not think they would give us *another* Man-o-War variant at 3 mana after the original and AEther Adept, but here we go. The effect is worse than the original, but costed better than Adept, so probably ranks 2nd among those three. I can see cutting something like Stitched Mangler for this or the Adept if you do not want a third effect.
Jun 13, 2018I was curious about this as well and ran some numbers for the last few white decks I drafted out of my CUbe on Cube Tutor. It may not be a perfect measure, but the following table below indicates how often you would at least draw a card based on the numbers. In those decks, most of the hits were generic 1 or 2 drops, but we also had some relevant 4+ mana creatures or archetype specific cards.Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
(I ran a hyper geometric calculator using the deck size as the population size, "hits" as number of successes, 4 as the sample size, and either 1 or 2 for number of successes in sample)
Jun 11, 2018Hey, a bunch of new cards got randomly spoiled for us today. Here are the cards that jumped out to me.Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Militia Bugler- A slightly below-rate body for 2W that has some chance to draw a creature spell. Doing some quick hyper geometric calculator math shows 6 other targets means ~50% chance to hit and 9 other targets is about ~66%. I would have to look at some decklists to figure out how often white decks have those types of targets.
Aven Wind Mage- I know the ability is slightly worse than Bloodwater Entity's Prowess or Adeliz, the Cinder Wind's Wizard ability, but this basically gives up the small upside (getting a spell on top or haste) on those cards for being mono-colored.
Vampire Sovereign- I think the ability makes this better than a generic 4/4 flier for 3BB. Whether or not it is enough better to be CUbed is unclear, but also unlikely.
Fountain of Renewal- I added Elixir of Immortality a while ago because I hoped it would help enable a different type of control deck with fewer win conditions, but that has not yet happened in drafts. This is a different, but similar, card that can always draw a card regardless. I think without having the potential to go long like Elixir, it is too far below rate to be good.
May 25, 2018Mostly agree that there is nothing exciting with the rest of the spoiled cards. That said, I was a little curious about this Decorated Champion.Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
I think some people on here have mentioned Warrior support as a theme their CUbe supports. What exactly does that look like? Which color(s) has it worked in?
May 24, 2018A couple of cards I do not yet see on the MTG Salvation spoilers and some I do:Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Combo Attack (2G, Sorcery, Two target creature on your team each deal damage equal to their power to target creature) seems like the most efficient way yet for Green to remove really big creatures with their removal, although needing two creatures on your board could be rough.
Azra Oddsmaker (1BR Creature- Azra Warrior, At the beginning of combat on your turn, you may discard a card. If you do, choose a creature. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player this turn, you draw two cards, 3/3) is a really weird way to get possible card advantage in an aggro black/red deck. Probably hurt by red not having lots of cheap evasion creatures, but I suppose there is some menace around.
Cheering Fanatic does have a lot of potential for explosive starts by curving into either a 4-drop or multiple twos on turn 3. I am a little weary of the body being weak, but it is worth a shot. Also a decent way to mitigate mana screw, since you can almost always cast your 3 drops on turn 2 with only two lands and Fanatic.
Inner Demon is definitely a card with interesting play patterns around it and I do not think you usually treat it like a normal Infest effect. My first analogue is something like Golden Demise where you could place it into any deck and you just crafted your game plan around it in that situation. Were you building to Ascend and going that way? or Were you trying to keep X/3+s around and hold off the opponent just enough to over-extend into a sweeper? The fact that Inner Demon is much less likely to kill your creatures because it necessarily saves one of them is really interesting to me. A scenario of enchanting your one creature and killing their one creature is decent enough most of the time, I would hope.
May 23, 2018I like Inner Demon quite a bit. As an Infect variant, it is a little iffy due to being both an Aura and four mana, but there are probably enough boards where this kills something your opponent control while also boosting one of your creatures significantly. Of note is that the boosted creature does not get hit by the -2/-2, meaning you can get in a pretty nice attack that turn.Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
We also got a spoiler for Cheering Fanatic, a smaller and cheaper variant of Hardened Berserker. Being a 2/2 two drop instead of a 3/2 three drop is probably better, but likely not enough so to be playable for us.
May 2, 2018Does anyone else have experience with Time of Ice? Having played against it a few times (but not yet with it), it does feel like a real strong card. A few talking points:Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
1) It does feel like a better card for aggro/tempo decks than control, but probably good for both. I like that you wait until turn 2 to tap the second target just because the card is more effective against an opponent with only one good single target since they feel disinclined to cast another good creature on their next turn. Also, the bounce for all tapped creatures can dissuade attacks before chapter III hits. That said...
2) The card can be rough against creatures with ETB abilities. If your opponent can manage an attack with a good ETB creature without having it die in combat, they get the benefit of recasting it. So far, I have picked up both an un-kicked Stronghold Confessor and a Yavimaya Sapherd and got benefit from recasting them in vanilla Dominaria limited.
3) Unsurprisingly, Time of Ice is not great against all board states. In the game where I got to re-cast Sapherd, Time of Ice was played when both sides had relatively inconsequential boards and it did not accomplish much. The first solution is just to hold it when it can be better, but if your opponent is mostly using spells to hold off your creatures, Time of Ice might not do too much.
All this said, I would like to find a cut for it, which I think will be Deep Analysis, a card which has some good uses, but generally feels replaceable in most of my control decks.
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