Yes, I detail this in the strategy section (not casting CoA without mana/sac open being a good idea against disruption). However, cards like Altar's Reap and Primal Growth should be mandatory in a heavy blue meta IMO. Heavy draw spells like Rhystic Study helps even more than Horizon Spellbomb, but d0su's not running them. Deep Analysis at least should be good against counters. It just doens't make a whole lot of sense to me as a deck tailored towards a blue meta, but I decided to mention it a bit in the deck commentary nevertheless.
I've found a few more budget rares that are quite interesting that I've added to the list. Hoping to get more feedback from others before I publish on the forum.
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Apr 20, 2014
urdjur posted a message on Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of AlaraPosted in: urdjur Blog -
Apr 18, 2014
urdjur posted a message on Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of AlaraCould you elaborate? Fighting blue goes well with ditchibg the t4 CoA plan I suppose, but you'd probably want to ramp t3 regardless.Posted in: urdjur Blog
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Apr 18, 2014
urdjur posted a message on Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of AlaraHere are the remaining two sections. I think the word document is now largely finished - 27 pages! After considering your comments, I'll make a basic formatting effort and post the thread in the Variant forum, then keep formatting and adding LOTS of card tags and making additional improvements based on thread comments etc. Then about a month from now, I'll apply for primer status with the comittee.Posted in: urdjur Blog
Overheat - I never added your decklist to the primer as d0su's has changed his list so it's more similar to yours (with the REBs etc). Biggest difference is the guildgates, but I discuss them already in the Shell, so I don't know. Any idea on how to fit it in nicely? Or maybe you could just post it and discuss it yourself in a reply in the soon to be primer thread?
DECKLISTS
Now it's time to put the core and the shell together. We'll start by taking a closer look at a classic Pauper list that has a somewhat different approach than what's suggested in the primer. A basic budget non-pauper list the follows, which also forms the basis for the "adding money" discussion in the section below.
Decklists - Pauper
Consider the following decklist by d0su, originator of the Pauper Dreamcrusher. This list is current as of January 2014 - I have gently restructured it to fit the terms and categories used in the primer.
This is a very interesting list. By ignoring the intense focus on dropping CoA turn 4, d0su gets away with much more card advantage and an essentially UBG mana base. It may look slow, but it has been proven and refined over three years time - and at rather cutthroat tables, I might add.
Let's look at the shell first. The most striking thing is the utter lack of guildgates. This creates space for other ETBT lands, namely a whole bunch of cycling lands. These can then be recurred by green's "Mulldrifter", Tilling Treefolk. In the Ghostly Flicker engine (or with Capsize), it becomes the Pauper version of Life from the Loam with those cycling lands. Hence, more panoramas make sense too, to draw out all the basics. With little concern for turn 4 specifically, d0su can compensate the lack of guildgates with more but slower multi-fixing.
With raw card advantage being the main plan, it also makes sense to run heavier stuff like Forbidden Alchemy and Yavimaya Elder. I'm not a fan of Rhystic Study in decks without massive mana denial, and I also wonder about the use of Horizon Spellbomb over Mycosynth Wellspring (the former is a Trinket Mage target however, but seems overcosted). I think I'd rather run the three U, B and G artifact lands (a notable omission with a Trinket Mage package) and the Wellspring instead. However, these are minor concerns that largely come down to player preference.
The core seems very solid and uncontroversial to me, and gives new players a useful sense of proportions in the Pauper deck. I think the sacrifice outlets are a little light however - I'd probably play Perilous Research (makes better use of Merchant Scroll) and Primal Growth (say, over Rhystic Study and Prophetic Prism). This would also allow the "sac outlets" to be used more for their other purposes (like spot removal). Quasali Pridemage is a superb choice of multi-purpose 2 CMC removal alongside Oblivion Ring. However, I miss Vedalken Aethermage with all these multi-purpose wizards. Scrivener could probably be cut for it.
All in all, this deck shows that there's more than one way to destroy the world and dominate with a cheapskate deck. In fact, a plan focusing more on card advantage and less on an early CoA could be the better way to go for a pure Pauper build - it will allow you to skimp on Plains and Mountains without shame at least. It's also an interesting comparison to the budget non-pauper build that I'm about to present.
Decklists - The Basic Budget Deck
The basic budget deck will cost you about $80, as many of the cards are still commons or dirt cheap rares, but super strong nevertheless. Upgrades for the more pronounced budget options are discussed in the adding money section.
So the table of contents is roughly INTRODUCTION - CARD SELECTION - DECKLISTS - OVERALL STRATEGY - ADDING MONEY TO THE DECK. Just so you don't get lost in all the copy/pasting.
ADDING MONEY TO THE DECK
The basic budget build is rather adequate on its own, but you can of course improve it further by increasing the budget. Before you go ahead and invest in premium duals and fetches though, there are other more pressing concerns that will add much more bang for your buck. This section sorts them roughly by "cost-benefit", starting small and going up.
Adding Money - Basic Shell Improvements ($35)
These changes are recommended to do first, as they improve your shell and solidify your game plan.
Grim Backwoods -> Phyrexian Tower. It will cost you $12, but it is the best sac outlet in the game (a mana ability that cannot be responded to). Drawing cards is nice and all, but it's simply no compensation for a net difference of 6 mana.
Halimar Depths -> Mystical Tutor. Make your game plan even more solid for only $5. Gets so much powerful stuff in the deck.
Expedition Map -> Tolaria West. A better land tutor since it's also a t2 blue source (replaces Halimar Depths in that department) and works with LftL. Another $5.
I'd also recommend replacing your three worst lands with Sylvan Scrying ($3, can be played t2 and thus replace a land), City of Brass and Forbidden Orchard ($5 each). If you're using the budget shell as suggested, I'd cut Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse and Vivid Creek (fewer ETBT lands means a quicker clock, plus you reduce strain on your basic lands. Panoramas don't ETBT and can produce mana on their own, so cutting the basic fetches is a greater priority).
Adding Money - Emeria Overhaul (about $60)
This package adds the 4 shock dual Plains to the mana base to enable Emeria, the Sky Ruin as a significantly stronger land-based recursion option than Moorland Haunt. This also solidifies the mana base much more, and enables your Plains fetchers to fix any color. Emeria + shock duals costs a few more dollars than a Volrath's Stronghold, but is a MUCH more effective recursion engine, while also greatly improving your mana fixing. Improved land tutors that help assemble Emeria and your other utility lands is also part of the package.
3 basics + 1 Panorama -> 4 shock dual Plains: You can't drop your single basic Mountain, but you can go down to 3 Island, 1 Forest and 1 Swamp. The other 2 panoramas also get replaced in this overhaul. Sacred Foundry, Godless Shrine, Hallowed Fountain and Temple Garden will cost you about $25-30.
Seaside Citadel -> Flood Plain: Like Grasslands and Krosan Verge, this now fixes all colors, and has synergy with LftL. It also finds Mistveil Plains and helps you assemble Emeria.
Moorland Haunt -> Emeria, the Sky Ruin: Another free recursion engine is nothing to scoff at. The Odyssey filter lands that previously launder colorless mana will now help you launder any excess white mana that may arise instead. $4.
2 Panoramas -> Tithe ($4) and Flagstones of Trokair ($10): Both of these get Plains, which mean they now fix every color and help you assemble Emeria. Flagstones further improves your resilience to mass LD, and has synergy with Ghost Quarter (and Perilous Research) if you're still running it (the two form a rather cute engine with Life from the Loam!).
Reap and Sow -> Scapeshift/Primeval Titan: Both of these help assemble Emeria and are more powerful (but more expensive) land tutors than Reap and Sow. IMO, the Titan is the more powerful option, but it may be banned depending on which list your group goes by. Both are roughly at the same price point (around $15).
Adding Money - Better Tutors (about $50)
Demonic Tutor: The most popular tutor in EDH will cost you about $15-20. You now have so strong fixing that getting black on t2 isn't very challenging, so you can probably swap a land for this.
Intuition: Arguably the best triple tutor available, perfect for setting up Life from the Loam with your key lands, or getting whatever you desire with Genesis and Eternal Witness. About $30. Could replace a transmuter or something else if you prefer.
Adding Money - Dark Depths Package (about $75)
This package changes the feel of the deck by changing win conditions somewhat. Particularly recommended if you have played the deck for a while and want to change things up a little.
Fallen Ideal -> Dark Depths: As you become more land focused, Fallen Ideal plays out its role as a sac outlet and with money to spend, also as a win condition. Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage is a pretty awesome combo in Child of Alara, as the token doesn't care about your general sweeper and you can churn out one 20/20 indestructible flyer per turn with Life from the Loam, which should quickly overwhelm exiling effects. Tutors like Intuition and Scapeshift make this happen frighteningly fast. Marit Lage production will presently set you back $55 due to the popularity of the combo.
Three Dreams -> Thespian's Stage: Three Dreams loses value without Fallen Ideal, as you now have fewer targets for it and lose its ability to assemble sac outlet + recursion in a single tutor. Drop it to make room for the other part of the combo. Stage also works as a gold land or extra utility land, but it's hard to find mana to activate it before a t4 CoA, so it probably shouldn't be considered until this point. Only $2.
Bequeathal -> Diabolic Intent: Bequeathal isn't necessary when you drop Three Dreams. Replace the sac outlet you lost from Fallen Ideal by swapping it for an extra Demonic Tutor for a mere $6. Intent is probably not stronger than the other sac outlets you run in the basic build however, so you have to wait for a vacancy to fit it.
Alchemist's Refuge -> Boseiju, Who Shelters All: A more powerful counter-measure to counterspells, that works well with your buyback spells and new tutors. Most of your stuff is instant speed now anyway, so Refuge is less needed. About $8 - well worth the investment.
Dance of the Dead -> Corpse Dance: Now more easy to tutor for, plus it works better with the Refuge/Boseiju swap. Only $3.
Adding Money - Further Shell Improvements ($ as much as you like)
These upgrades cost much and offers comparatively little improvement. You're probably better off improving on other decks.
Reflecting Pool: The next-in-line land improvement. $12 - cheap at this point. Having replaced your ETBT fixers (except your awesome fetch lands that are more important than this) already however, the incremental advantage is small. This could arguably replace the third Island, but I think I'd rather have the basic land. It could easily replace your worst rainbow land, but is probably worse than your filter lands. You probably want to keep Murmoring Bosk for Krosan Verge until you add more Forest duals.
Sensei's Divining Top: As it can dig, it could easily replace your worst land, much like Reflecting Pool. Your 2-drop tutors and digs are adding up now however, but it's a good card. $20 if you're lucky.
True Fetch Lands: These could easily replace your 2 budget Mirage fetches and even your worst rainbow lands since they are better with LftL. The 4-5 cheapest of the lot are about $50 a pop (Arid Mesa, Marsh Flats, Windsweap Heath etc), so they will give you the most bang for your buck and you don't have room for many more anyways.
True Duals: Plateau, Tundra and Scrubland are each at roughly the same price point as the cheaper fetches ($50), so they could replace a basic Plains, Murmoring Bosk and Sacred Foundry. Not sure I'd recommend investing in ABUR duals beyond that, unless you completely rework the shell somehow.
Volrath's Stronghold: Will cost you about $25. Could replace some other source of recursion, but I can't imagine that I'd want to cut anything for it, let alone invest in it for this deck.
Diamond Valley: A moderately played one can be yours for less than $100! Completely unnecessary and much worse than Phyrexian Tower IMO. Spend your dollars on other decks, or something more important than Magic.
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Apr 18, 2014
urdjur posted a message on Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alarabfine70 - will look over trigger vs. activate as I polish up, good call! Also agreed on Altar's Reap-type cards.Posted in: urdjur Blog
All - here is the Introduction main section, preceeding the Card Selection section. Its subsections are hopefully clear from the basic formatting provided.
INTRODUCTION
History
The concept of 5-Color Control for the common man was first popularized on MTGS by d0su in his legendary Dreamcrusher thread in early 2011. The idea was that using Child of Alara as a Commander compensated for the complete lack of solid sweepers in the common card pool, while using only commons provided for a very cheap deck that still had the power to go up against full power EDH decks, especially in multiplayer.
As the concept of Pauper EDH has consolidated more towards using uncommon creatures as Commanders, and the "Dreamcrusher" build has proven more adapted for regular EDH tables than Pauper settings anyway, the need for adhering strictly to commons has been called into question. While using only commons remains the cheapest way to build CoA, adding even just a few uncommons greatly helps the deck overcome some inherent design challenges and also makes for shorter games (while all commons list can eventually establish control just as well, games go on and tend to be very grindy and durdly).
While there is already a multiplayer primer on using Child of Alara to create a lands-type deck focusing on Life from the Loam and utility lands, this primer will focus more on using Child of Alara itself (even though the non-Pauper builds included here also make use of LftL and utility lands, simply because it would be silly not to). Thus, the primary focus of these builds will be on how to sacrifice and recur CoA as efficiently as possible, and other strategies that are supportive of this concept. While the primer assumes a multiplayer environment, there is nothing stopping you from trying these builds out 1v1 either, especially the "full power" budget version.
Pauper, Peasant and Budget - a Word on Terminology
Since around 2010, there's been an increasing interest for "PDH" or Pauper EDH - a process that this very archetype has helped fuel. At the time however, there was little consensus on what exactly constituted a PDH deck. Can CoA with all commons be considered "Pauper", when the general is mythic rare and the deck is constructed to abuse it as much as possible?
These days, there is a pretty strong consensus that Pauper EDH means using an uncommon (or possibly even common), most likely non-legendary, creature as your Commander, and only commons in your 99. For purposes of this primer however, the "Pauper" build refers to using only commons in the deck, despite CoA being mythic rare. The term is not an endorsement suggesting that a CoA build using only commons has a place at tables where others are running Zameck Guildmage or Ascended Lawmage as Commanders.
There is even less consensus on what constitutes a "Peasant" EDH deck - another format descriptor borrowed from the world of 60 card Magic. Most agree that standard EDH rules apply, but that you're excluding rares from your 99. Some groups or shops go further and limit the amount of uncommons you can run (the equivalent of 5 uncommons in a 60 card deck would be 8 in a 99 card deck, but numbers vary).
Regardless of whether you're using rarity restrictions or just want a competitive but affordable 5C control deck, this is the definitive CoA primer for you! It discusses inexpensive card choices of all rarities, Pauper and budget decklists, and strategy both on a general level and individual card level.
Why Play Child of Alara?
The Pauper version of this deck might be for you if:
*You like having Planar Cleansing as your Commander
*You want to play a workable 5C control deck in EDH that costs less than its sleeves
*You like it when people playing $1000+ decks say your deck is unfair and boring
The Pauper version might not be for you if:
*You intend to play against decks using uncommon Commanders
*You want a good game against fast decks 1v1
*You want something simple to pilot that wins quickly
The budget version might be for you if:
*You like having Planar Cleansing as your Commander, except it costs 0 to reuse, draws you cards and gains you life
*You want to play a competitive 5C control deck in EDH for less than $100
*You dislike a battlefield cluttered with non-land permanents
The budget version might not be for you if:
*You consider aggro or combo as a goal unto itself rather than just a win condition
*You like fair decks that don't steal or reanimate opposing creatures, or force mass discard in the early turns
*You're more interested in playing against other PDH decks with uncommon Commanders
Quick Deck Statistics
Preferred Environment: Multiplayer (any build) or 1v1 (non-pauper builds)
Casual/Competitive: Semi Competitive
Average CMC: About 2.5-2.8 depending on build (though mana demands depend much more on the effectiveness of your recursion engines, than on average CMCs)
Deck Cost [AVG]: ?? ??
Deck MVP: Depends on build and budget, but Capsize and Mind Extraction are always all-stars.
Strengths: Board control, counters, hand disruption
Weaknesses: Graveyard hate, mana denial
Flexibility - How well does the deck combat threats and come back from resource denial/negation?
(8/10) The deck is built around coming back advantageously from mass resource denial. Counters are largely ineffective. Big draw can recover from hand disruption. The biggest problems are graveyard removal and mass LD, especially for the Pauper version.
Efficiency - How well does the deck use its mana base? Does it focus on big bombs or a slow power creep?
(7/10) The Pauper deck can easily use up more than 20 mana/turn. The non-pauper deck can use more than 10 mana/turn but rarely has the need to, since most of the primary deck engines run on little mana.
Consistency - Out of 10 games, how many will be played in similiar or nearly identical ways?
(6-9/10) Very much pilot dependent. You can make every game almost exactly the same, but this will suck the fun out of most games. Consult the strategy section for tips on mixing it up.
Speed - How quickly can this deck take over a table?
(5-9/10) The Pauper deck is the undisputed king of durdling, tutoring for tutors that tutor for recursion that recur tutors etc. - that sort of thing. However, it can also consistently board wipe on turn 5. The non-pauper deck can do that or force everyone to discard their hands by turn 5 without breaking a sweat. It also recovers much faster from the first board wipe.
Style - Does the deck kill you the same way every game, or does it have a million and one ways to finish you off?
(7/10) Multiple win conditions can be included when needed. Typically, the deck closes games with general damage or insurmountable resource denial, but infinite combos and even direct damage are possibilities.
Perceived Threat - How politically threatening is this deck when you show everyone your commander?
(6-9/10) Depends a lot on how you pilot it (see the Strategy section), but once the table knows what you can do, don't expect any silk mittens even if your deck is all commons.
Also, here is the Strategy section after Card Selection, before the section on adding money to the deck. Let me know what you think!
OVERALL STRATEGY
Much of the tactics for playing the deck is discussed in the description of the card(s) in question, and the early game plan is outlined in detail in the Shell section. This section will briefly discuss broader political and strategic considerations.
You Are Control
While acceleration your early mana development is probably always a good thing to do, dropping CoA on turn 4 isn't actually necessary unless the board state demands it. It might not even be the best thing to do even if you can - if you draw attention to yourself and your opponents are packing counters or exiling removal. You might want to spend turn 4 on tutoring for a sac outlet or recursion piece, and perhaps even more ramp, and then drop CoA on turn 5-6 instead with counter back-up or a sac outlet ready. If you can grab control over the game quickly, go for it - but never risk losing control of the game because you want to actually win quickly. Killing is simply a formality. It's rendering your opponents helpless and making their efforts futile that wins the game.
Also, You Are God
While you do demand the sacrifice of a child for the permanent sins of your opponents, you should try not to make your existence too obvious. Let the humans play! It's always best if you know that you have the world in your murderous killing vise, while at the same time letting your opponents think that they have a real shot at eternal life. Don't look like the bad guy. Be the good guy, that saves the table from the brink of disaster! Every time. Of course, there was never any real threat of disaster, but as long as your opponents think it was a close call and that someone else almost had you - had them all in fact - you will get to keep playing your favorite deck and not get hated out. Make your friends into your prophets! They shall prepare the second coming of the Child of Judgment! The security of the table rests in your fatherly hands.
God is an Entertainer
Yes, you can blow up the world whenever you feel like it, but if that is ALL your deck is doing, simply because it magically happens to hose every strategy at the table, your opponents won't have any fun, and pretty soon, you won't either. So mix it up. Maybe one game you can rely on the Oblivion Ring/Capsize engine instead, or the Ghostly Flicker engine with infinite counters and removal. Or their equivalent rare counterparts, Archon of Justice and Mystic Snake. Or maybe you just reset the board once when it really matters, and then reanimate one of your opponent's juicy creatures and attempt to ride it to the win, protecting it with counters. Once in a while, try to win as quickly as possible, perhaps with the Jarad's Orders -> Myojin/Double combo, as this creates a useful distraction to your otherwise inescapable domination of the board. If people lose spectacularly once in a while, they are more OK with losing inevitably the rest of the time. Even if a drastic move will cost you the game, losing once in a while is only a benefit for your deck's reputation. Rather than always playing your deck so it is unbeatable, you can try to make it entertaining whenever you can afford to do so, since that will make it even more unbeatable (socially) in the long run.
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Apr 17, 2014
urdjur posted a message on Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alara@Overheat:Posted in: urdjur Blog
- The game plan is described under "The Core - Sacrifice Outlets, Recursion and Engine Pieces". Perhaps it would be better to move parts of it to an earlier section, the one describing history and who the deck is for etc, so the newbie reader doesn't get overwhelmed? Formatting will help also, as you say.
- Yes, that is the reason I drop Far Wanderings, Harrow and Myconsynth Wellspring from the budget build - too much strain on too few basics. Are you saying 17 basics isn't enough to support it in the Pauper build either, making that an argument against artifact lands? Not sure I'd agree there. Do you think I need to bring out the awesomeness of Far Wanderings more in its card description?
- Swedish spells "Address" with one D, hence my confusion. Consider it found and replaced!
- Yes, I'm aware about the Panoramas. The fact that they get better with rares is due to the Odyssey Filter Lands, not because they can get shocks/duals (which aren't even mentioned in this section, but come into play when you start considering way more money and Emeria, The Sky Ruin). They also get better with LftL (like all fetches). I'll remove the part of them getting better with rares if it's confusing and leads the mind to consider shocks/duals.
- Divination needs mention at least as a benchmark, if not a recommendation. Compulsive Research is an oversight - should be in the Support - Commons section. It's very solid.
Yes, please do PM me your current decklist. Ideally sorted by function and using CMCs before each spell rather than just "1" (helps evalute what transmuters can get, as well as the curve). I include a reformatted version of d0su's current list, that uses the same categories as the primer, so if you could follow that layout it would be great:
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Apr 16, 2014
urdjur posted a message on Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of AlaraOkay, I've posted the Card Selection part - the meatiest section. It's just pure unformatted content right now (MANY card tags etc. to add), but at least it's something to work with. The basic blog interface seems terrible for formatting primers though - couldn't even find card tag buttons on that interface, even though they are here in the comments section. Is there a sandbox part of the forum where we could set up shop, like a secret thread seen only by us or not drawing attention to itself?Posted in: urdjur Blog
Looking forward to your comments. I'll post the other sections as I finish them. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Could you elaborate on this? There are many taplands... spell lands like Bojuka Bog, mana fixing like Thornwood Falls, cycling lands etc.
Also, how is running 7 dedicated red sources working out (3 mountains + 4 karoos)? Do you ever feel like you have too little on-color mana for the spells you wish to cast?
Ravnica karoos: I was amazed to see that Lou ran the full set so I did some testing. I had thought that 3-ish might be the best number to avoid flooding with these and over-exposing you to land removal. Still, you need 2 to combo out. You also need at least one of them to produce U. Now, let's say you want to combo after you have 10 mana sources in play, which should be pretty early - about the earliest you could reasonably try to pull it off in a real game I'd say. If 2 of those are karoos, well, that's 20% of your sources on average! Now, taking into account that Expedition Map, Crop Rotation and Reap and Sow will often get karoos once you have something to work with (Mortuary Mire or Bojuka Bog, typically), but also that most of your ramp/land search can't get karoos at all, suddenly running quite a few karoos makes more sense! But should you run the full 10? Probably not. I'd say the safest bet is to run the blue ones (4 total) and Golgari Rot Farm. That way, any combination of 2 karoos will still work for combo, and you have optimum mana fixing with Crop Rotation. With 5 karoos total, getting 2 "naturally" by turn 10-ish is still quite rare, and you may have to dig for one of them with a tutor. That's OK though, since you'd probably want to do that anyway to abuse mire/bog. So that's what I'm going with now! I have finally cut the panoramas as there was just too much to do on round 2, and at least the karoos only set you back one mana.
Other mana base thoughts: I have finally found what tap duals I like the most! With three sets to choose from (guildgates, life duals and the SoI/amonkhet set) there is no longer any reason not to have an optimum mana base. I've decided to go with only the UG and BG lands (3+3=6 total) as these are the only lands that allow me to "cheat" on my forest total, keeping my green sources high but my dedicated green sources low. I don't like the UB ones, because both U and B are so useful so often that you don't really need the option between them - it's better to just run Swamps and Islands. I also think pairing U (or G or B) with R or W is too situational. Most of the time, these will just be "bad Islands". I've also cut Far Wanderings in favor of Commander's Sphere! Despite its late game power, I found Far Wanderings to be the worst ramp card in the early game, while still feeling like win more later on. Sphere helps more with fixing early and cycles away later when you have more than enough lands already. I think Wanderings was better at a time when we had fewer land options and had to run more basics, and when Alara cycles cost more as well. The deck has gotten a lot more streamlined since then.
Other changes:
Treasure Cruise -> Wretched Gryff: Motivated by legality reasons. Not exactly a clean swap since I'm trading a source of pseudo-recursion (to the command zone!) for a sac outlet, but it's mostly a question of what you end up tutoring for (sac outlet or recursion spell) so it evens out.
Breath of Life -> Mistmoon Griffin: Rediscovered this little nugget by chance. Think of it as a Breath of Life with a down payment, or a cross between breath and Shade's Form. The thing is, the more cards we run like Wretched Gryff, Angelic Purge, Perilous Research, Primal Growth etc. the more valuable cards like Griffin become, especially when you already have the reusable Sidisi's Faithful in hand. What I like most about it is that it allows you to built board position after you drop Alara and create space in your hand without really committing to anything. You can still just blow up Alara and get her back instantly when you wish.
Unmake -> ???: I'm spoiled for thinking Unmake to be a bad card, I know. It's just that with Angelic Purge and Capsize already among my silver bullets, another 3 CMC target feels a bit lackluster. It feels like an overcosted Tragic Slip (I told you I was spoiled!). Many other options exist of course, for example Scour from Existence (even more redundant/overcosted?) and Rewind (I only run 2 recursion wizards and no Displace, so meh). I'm actually thinking about another recursion spell here, maybe good ol' Disturbed Burial (but so much yawn!). Usually in these situations, the correct thing is to add a draw spell instead, but I pretty much run all the good ones already (no I don't think Augur of Bolas is good enough, he fizzles over 10% of the time). Lou runs Mystic Remora in his list and it's probably the only card that excites me at least a little bit for this slot. I'm taking suggestions, but I'm really picky because the combined card quality is just through the roof these days!
Another issue with your suggestion is that it let's you cherry pick spells to shuffle away and sculpt your starting hand so that it only contains low CMC spells. Swapping your least playable spell for a basic land might be too good, as compared to a normal mulligan. Don't you think?
Your limitation on not taking further mulligans after you have opted for a basic land somewhat prevents "burn type" abuse, but being able to always get an extra land with no downside should still heavily favor fewer lands in decks so I think it may warp deck building more than the land requirement.
To sum up, I like the simplicity of your suggestion but I think it may be too good and have too heavy an impact if you build your deck for it.
I've tried coming up with some rule or format for our playgroup that could help the situation without completely warping deck building in the process. This is my latest idea and the most balanced I think I've come up with so far. Feedback is much appreciated and if you have better solutions to this problem, feel free to post them!
The Basic Land Mulligan
1) If your deck contains 30-45% land cards, rather than drawing your starting hand and taking mulligans in the normal fashion, you can take a basic land mulligan. This forfeits your right to take other mulligans.
2) To take a basic land mulligan, first search your library for up to seven basic land cards of any type, then shuffle your library.
3) If you searched your library for less than seven basic land cards, draw 7 cards minus the number of basic lands you searched for, from the top of your library. If you drew a land card, you may reveal it, put it at the bottom of your library and draw another card from the top of your library. You may repeat this process for any land card you draw.
4) When you no longer wish to scry away any lands you've drawn, combine any basic land cards you searched for and the cards you've drawn to form your starting hand of seven cards, then shuffle your library.
A few explanations: The reason for the land requirement (30-45%) is so that you can't just run 3 basic mountains in a burn deck, search all of them out and then just play burn for the rest of the game. The upper limit is to prevent combo decks to run 80% land to scry into the perfect starting hand in step 3. The interval covers most normal land totals in "fair" 60 card decks, draft decks and EDH decks, but not decks like 1-land combos or Life from the Loam decks (a fair compromise IMO).
The only guaranteed way to avoid mana shortage is to include basic lands in your starting hand, which more high powered multi-color decks might not always want. However, you could always grab just one basic and hope to draw 1-2 more interesting lands as normal, while being sure to avoid mana flood. I don't really see it as a downside that the system benefits budget-friendly multicolor decks the most though, as they tend to be the weakest decks in most formats.
Before testing this out, I'd be happy if someone would point out foreseeable problems with this system or if there is a better way to solve the issues of mana flood/short/mismatch without warping deck building too much.
What has surprised me however is Pulse of Murasa! That card is really solid on its own. I've often found Quiet Disrepair to be a bit slow as a tutor target. You muddle for it on turn 3, drop it on turn 4 and start gaining life on turn 5. And if you need to do that, you probably also need to fog on turn 4, which messes with my main plan of dropping Scepter on turn 4. Which means I need to have 2 fogs, one on turn 4 and one to imprint on turn 5... which gets really constrained considering I'm putting all my effort into getting that Disrepair.
Enter 3x Pulse of Murasa instead. You play it on turn 3, getting back a panorama or ash barrens, you gain a solid amount of life and ensure your turn 4 land drop for isochron (2 mana extra for counter back-up or activation). Nice! And with 3 in the deck, you can realistically dig for it on turn 2 with Impulse/Brainstorm if you really need it. Late game, it is golden with Constant Mists too. It is even narrow graveyard hate against reanimator type decks for example! Current list:
4 Ash Barrens
4 Bant Panorama
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Simic Growth Chamber
8 Island
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Muddle the Mixture
ENGINE (5)
4 Isochron Scepter (u)
1 Constant Mists (u)
WIN/LOCK/PROTECTION (4)
3 Vision Charm
1 Raise the Alarm
4 Dawn Charm
4 Moment's Peace
1 Respite
OTHER COUNTERS (5)
4 Counterspell
1 Memory Lapse
OTHER TOOLS (4)
3 Pulse of Murasa
1 Into the Roil
I've moved away from SB Incinerate as an alt win con and now run Raise the Alarm in the main instead, to produce a token swarm against mill resistant decks. It is also a good early "fog" or "removal" to stall until you get Isochron on-line. Into the Roil replaces the disenchant part of quiet disrepair (especially with counter follow up) and it's a solid cantrip and imprint card too.
Sideboard is being reworked, but will definitely include 4th Vision Charm and possibly 4th Pulse of Murasa too.
Good to see you active in the thread Curby! Why was this such a definitive mull? An opener with three barrens could go:
t1 Ash Barrens, cycle AB#2 EOT
t2 Depending on what land you went for you can fog or play Brainstorm + cycle AB#3 EOT
t3 Now you have 2 colors and a colorless mana. Bad with lots of UU but, it occurs to me now, good with ravnica bounce duals to recover an early Ash Barrens and cycle it!
So I'm thinking of updating my Bant mana base, because like Bant Panorama, Ash Barrens goes so well with Isochron Scepter.
Something like:
4 Panorama
4 Barrens
2 simic growth chamber
2 azorious chancery
1 forest
1 plains
8 island
Thoughts?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/variant-commander/738656-2dh-lin-sivvi-defiant-cheapskate-now-with-mini
In case it interests aficionados of this thread
Reveille Squad: This rebel seems too good not to run. If you're attacked, you get to search twice, tap down two creatures with Whipcorder and so on. It's not just "surprise vigilance", though a fetchable 3/3 for 4 giving vigilance to all isn't too shabby by itself IMO.
Darksteel Mutation: I think this might be the best board locking aura in EDH. It's not as versatile as Faith's Fetters, but I think it's much better than even Lignify and Prison Term. You can still attack the player you use it on and he can't get out just by blocking and killing as with Lignify - it also doesn't fall off from wraths. The player really must have a disenchant effect or a sac outlet or he is screwed. It's like a retroactive Nevermore against commanders. And it's tutorable with the aura tutors that are pretty much all that's available for tutoring in mono-white 2DH.
Well of Lost Dreams: Gentlemen, this is 1 mana per card after a humble downpayment of 4. Just a single strike with Changeling Hero, or one life cycle of Aven Riftwatcher, and you get 4 cards from it. That alone would make the 4+4 mana investment worth it and much better than Tower of Fortunes, but it will often give you much more. I'd definitely take this over Endbringer and Staff of Nin too. IMO, only Mentor of the Meek and the best equipment can compete with it.
Survival Cache: Do you often have more life than at least one opponent? Then this is a better divination in white. What do you think?
3 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
CREATURES (25)
-rebels (9)
5 Changeling Hero
1 Children of Korlis
3 Defiant Vanguard
3 Lightbringer
3 Mirror Entity
3 Outrider en-Kor
3 Task Force
2 Whipcorder
3 Zealot il-Vec
-other creatures (16)
2 Aegis of the Gods
6 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
7 Emeria Shepherd
7 Eternal Dragon
6 Felidar Sovereign
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
3 Mentor of the Meek
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
4 Seht's Tiger
6 Sunblast Angel
6 Steel Hellkite
3 Stonecloaker
2 True Believer
6 Twilight Shepherd
5 World Queller
-auras (5)
3 Animal Boneyard
3 Bound in Silence
3 Gift of Immortality
4 Faith's Fetters
2 Weight of Conscience
-other enchantments (8)
2 Angelic Renewal
3 Aura of Silence
2 Blind Obedience
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Marshal's Anthem
3 Nevermore
3 Oblivion Ring
5 Sphere of Safety
ARTIFACTS (16)
-equipment (3)
1 Gorgon's Head
4 Grafted Exoskeleton
2 Swiftfoot Boots
-mana (9)
3 Commander's Sphere
0 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
4 Hedron Archive
2 Mind Stone
4 Sisay's Ring
2 Thought Vessel
3 Worn Powerstone
4 Ur-Golem's Eye
2 Distorting Lens
4 Phyrexian Processor
3 Scepter of Dominance
3 Spear of Heliod
SORCERIES (5)
6 Akroma's Vengence
2 Open the Armory
5 Rout
5 Three Dreams
5 Tragic Arrogance
INSTANTS (5)
1 Argivian Find
1 Condemn
2 Celestial Flare
2 Dawn Charm
4 Return to Dust
LANDS (35)
28 Plains
1 Buried Ruin
1 Desert
1 Drifting Meadow
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Quicksand
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Tectonic Edge
Feedback is greatly appreciated. I'm sure there is room for improvement! Combos and synergies:
1) Task Force + Outrider en-Kor + Animal Boneyard OR Condemn = infinite life. In turn, infinite life has synergy with Felidar Sovereign and Glacial Chasm.
2) Children of Korlis with Phyrexian Processor or Glacial Chasm. Could use Righteous Aura too, but I find no room for it presently. Glacial Chasm can be tutored more easily and is counter proof.
3) Lightbringer with Distorting Lens.
4) Zealot il-Vec with Gorgon's Head or Grafted Exoskeleton.
Win cons are Mirror Entity + utility weenies and rebels, phyrexian processor, or simply beating with a few good angels, or more distantly grafted exoskeleton or felidar sovereign as alternative win cons.
Currently considering:
EDIT: More cards to consider...
Rapelling Scouts: I think Zealot il-Vec hoping for gorgon parts is a bit too slow and cute for this format, this is a sturdier and more versatile evasive rebel.
Reveille Squard: Another good rebel I overlooked. If I'm reading it right, I get to search twice with Lin Sivvi for no untap cost whenever I'm attacked. Also awesome combat trick and pseudo-vigilance for all at a reasonable cost.
Endbringer: A reasonably costed fatty with a reasonably costed draw ability in white.
Mask of Memory: More card draw, didn't think it was so cheap. I have lots of evasion to use it well.
Loxodon Warhammer: Strong, merits consideration.
Comeuppance: What a nice find, instant speed selective boardwipe or combo punisher.
Hushwing Gryff: Still need to consider what will be affected by this in the final build, but I reckon opponents will suffer more.
Crystal Ball: Could be good in mono-white, cheap too.
Slate of Ancestry: Also merits consideration.
Skullclamp: Blimey me, but it appears to be solidly below the 2 dollar mark!
Staff of Nin: Another consideration for affordable card draw in mono white.
Dreamstone Hedron: Probably better than several of the mana rocks in the list above.
White Sun's Zenit and Decree of Justice: Two instant speed win cons with mirror entity that merit consideration.
Rule of Law and Ivory Mask: Possibly better than the two ivory bears. Haven't quite decided what my anti-combo defense is gonna be. The answer is probably "not enough", lol.
Phew, that's a lot of cards - good cards even. I need to go back to the drawing board.
Alright, on the chopping block:
Zealot il-Vec: Replaced with Rapelling Scouts
Aegis of the Gods: I will probably go with Glowrider and/or Hushwing Gryff
Sunblast Angel: This should be Martial Coup or some other good sweeper instead.
True Believer: Vryn Wingmare protects better and flies
Marshal's Anthem: Should probably be Remember the Fallen instead.
Gorgon's Head: It was only decent with Zealot
Commander's Sphere: Realized I want to drop Lin on t3, making this iffy.
Worn Powerstone: Even more iffy, delays me rather than accelerates.
Akroma's Vengeance: I run way too many artifacts and enchantments to come out on top of this. Should be a better sweeper for this deck.
Ugh. That's only like 9 cards. And I'm looking a bit thin on land too. I might not even be able to fit as much combo hate, so the "stax" elements of the deck may need to be reconsidered. I feel like I might be quite redundant on stuff, but not sure on what yet. I now notice I've just gone gung-ho on disruption without really having a plan.
3 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
CREATURES (20)
-rebels (10)
5 Changeling Hero
1 Children of Korlis
3 Defiant Vanguard
3 Lightbringer
3 Mirror Entity
3 Outrider en-Kor
4 Rappelling Scouts
4 Reveille Squad
3 Task Force
2 Whipcorder
-other creatures (10)
6 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
7 Emeria Shepherd
6 Felidar Sovereign
3 Heliod's Pilgrim
3 Mentor of the Meek
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Seht's Tiger
6 Steel Hellkite
3 Stonecloaker
5 World Queller
ENCHANTMENTS (11)
-auras (7)
3 Animal Boneyard
3 Bound in Silence
4 Curse of Exhaustion
2 Darksteel Mutation
4 Faith's Fetters
1 Flickering Ward
2 Weight of Conscience
3 Aura of Silence
3 Nevermore
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Righteous Aura
ARTIFACTS (15)
-equipment (4)
3 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Mask of Memory
1 Skullclamp
2 Swiftfoot Boots
-mana (8)
2 Armillary Sphere
6 Dreamstone Hedron
0 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
4 Hedron Archive
2 Mind Stone
2 Prismatic Lens
2 Thought Vessel
-others (3)
2 Distorting Lens
4 Phyrexian Processor
4 Well of Lost Dreams
SORCERIES (6)
7 Martial Coup
2 Open the Armory
5 Rout
3 Survival Cache
5 Three Dreams
5 Tragic Arrogance
1 Argivian Find
4 Comeuppance
1 Condemn
2 Dawn Charm
2 Hallowed Moonlight
5 Miraculous Recovery
4 Return to Dust
2 To Arms!
1 Valor Made Real
LANDS (38)
30 Plains
1 Buried Ruin
1 High Market
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Opal Palace
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of the False God
Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero: The commander provides card advantage hard to come by in mono-white, and a toolbox that gives access to combo, aggro and control.
Changeling Hero: Protect Sivvi or other key creatures, and provides lifegain for Well of Lost Dreams.
Children of Korlis: Recover from big attack or life payment (Phyrexian Processor or Righteous Aura). You can even use it twice for a net gain of life (sac it, put it back with sivvi and tutor it up again).
Defiant Vanguard: Combat trick and redundant searcher. Mini-combo with Valor Made Real.
Lightbringer: Against black decks and combo with Distorting Lens)
Mirror Entity: The aggro component of the deck. Nice combo with Martial Coup or evasive effects.
Outrider en-Kor: One half of the life combo.
Rapelling Scouts: Flying blocker or doubly evasive threat that survives most things.
Reveille Squad: Now you can search twice with Sivvi if you're attacked! Also nice combat trick and Whipcorder synergy.
Task Force: Second half of life combo.
Whipcorder: Only 2 mana rebel worth running, part of the voltron defense.
Crovax, Ascendant Hero: The only Elesh Norn available in 2DH.
Emeria Shepherd: One of the best white EDH creatures.
Felidar Sovereign: Alt win con through a clogged field when you have lots of life (very easy for this deck).
Heliod's Pilgrim: Finds combo pieces and removal.
Mentor of the Meek: One of the best card draw options for the deck.
Phyrexian Revoker: Nice disruption on legs.
Seht's Tiger: More disruption on legs.
Steel Hellkite: Even more.
Stonecloaker: Let's face it, it's all disruption here.
World Queller: MOAR DISRUPTION, BWAHAHA!
Animal Boneyard: Key combo piece. Sac an arbitrarily big Task Force, targeted one million times by Outrider en-Kor, and gain a silly life total. Also useful sac outlet for various purposes.
Bound in Silence: A rebel, meaning you can even slide it onto hexproof creatures without casting it.
Curse of Exhaustion: A very nasty little targeted Rule of Law that can tie up a combo player for a while.
Darksteel Mutation: The definitive board locking aura. It even makes the target survive most sweepers making actual disenchanting or sacrifice outlets the only escape.
Faith's Fetters: Another versatile board locking aura.
Flickering Ward: Protection or evasion that's easy to tutor for and survives board wipes.
Weight of Conscience: Tutorable creature exiling for the low cost of tapping two rebels.
Aura of Silence: One of the best disenchant effects available.
Nevermore: Just say no to certain commanders, combo pieces etc.
Oblivion Ring: Versatile removal.
Righteous Aura: Circle of Protection: Everything, for the bargain price of life which you have in spades. Protects against commander damage, infect, prevents combat damage abilities from triggering etc.
Loxodon Warhammer: Trampling to punch through the token hoards or to make Sivvi a credible threat with Mirror Entity so you can win off commander damage if necessary. Lifelink is also always useful fuel for the deck.
Mask of Memory: Card draw is important but so is not having important rebels stuck in your hand - discard and reuse with Sivvi.
Skullclamp: Possibly the best card draw in the deck.
Swiftfoot Boots: Sivvi protection and enabler, or use it with various fatties.
Armillary Sphere: 2 lands for 4 mana is acceptable, and it fits the curve.
Dreamstone Hedron: A bigger Mind Stone. The heavy cost is OK since it still taps for 3 and permits rebel searching the turn you drop it.
Everflowing Chalice: Flexibel, can be a Sisay's Ring or anything smaller or bigger as needed.
Expedition Map: Ramps with Temple of the False God or finds key utility lands.
Hedron Archive: The medium sized Mind Stone. Still decently costed, accelerating right after Sivvi drops and at least permitting her to search out 1-2 CMC rebels that same turn.
Mind Stone: One of the best rocks for mono-white - not as dramatic as Dreamstone Hedron, but starts giving early.
Prismatic Lens: Ability to give white mana against a Contamination lock makes this rock particularly useful.
Thought Vessel: No Reliquary Tower in 2DH, and hand size can be a factor with rebel tutoring.
Distorting Lens: Combo with Lightbringer but can also be used to punch holes in protection or disequip protection swords by making them the color they protect against.
Phyrexian Processor: Create enormous tokens with life combo or Children of Korlis. Give them evasion with Loxodon Warhammer or Rogue's Passage.
Well of Lost Dreams: Right up there with Mentor of the Meek in terms of mana-efficiency, and more readily enabled thanks to all the life gain.
Martial Coup: Resolve this for 7 mana and prepare with Changeling Hero on Sivvi before. Next turn, find Mirror Entity and swing for 30 or more damage.
Open the Armory: One of the only affordable tutors available in this format. Always gets something useful though.
Rout: One of the best sweepers in EDH.
Survival Cache: In this deck, it is a better white Divination.
Three Dreams: Three cards for 5 mana isn't bad in mono-white, and you can get combo pieces, solid removal or protection with it.
Tragic Arrogance: Cool sweeper where you get to decide who keeps what, unlike Cataclysm.
Argivian Find: Effective becomes a better Enlightened Tutor later in the game.
Comeuppance: Awesome spell - a selective sweeper or protection against direct damage.
Condemn: An alternative combo piece to Animal Boneyard and also solid removal.
Dawn Charm: All three modes are highly useful.
Hallowed Moonlight: Destroy token armies, reanimated fatties and other unfair things.
Miraculous Recovery: I prefer this over Marshal's Anthem for instant speed and since I only have a few fatties to rez. Very good with Mask of Memory and a fatty in hand.
Return to Dust: Best disenchant effect in EDH possibly.
To Arms: Reuse Sivvi, combat trick and cantrip. Awesome!
Valor Made Real: Cheap smart sweeper with Defiant Vanguard if you're attacked.
Plains: Yes, we need those.
Buried Ruin: Nice, cheap artifact recursion never hurt.
High Market: It's a shame Miren, the Moaning Well is out of price range, but this at least protects your creatures from being board locked or stolen (Homeward Path is off limits too).
Mystifying Maze: An affordable maze effect.
Opal Palace: Not super-important, but a bigger Sivvi could occasionally be nice.
Rogue's Passage: Evasion is important since the deck will sometimes rely on a fatty to connect FTW.
Sea Gate Wreckage: Card draw when you really need it, at virtually no opportunity cost.
Tectonic Edge: This is hovering around the $2 price barrier right now, but could easily be replaced with Ghost Quarter if needed.
Temple of the False God: A poor man's Ancient Tomb.
WATCHLIST
These are cards that could be very interesting for the deck, but are currently above but near $2 and have a reasonable chance of becoming available in the near future:
Zealot il-Vec: He is a lot more fragile and not much more evasive than Rappelling Scouts. In an equipment heavy build with swords, he would be better.
Fated Retribution: Probably the next best sweeper I'm not running.
Gift of Immortality: Very strong effect but I struggle to find a crucial use for it. This might just not be the deck for it.
Spear of Heliod: It's a good card, but it doesn't really offer anything new compared to what the deck already does so well.
Why not use this thread as a starting point for deck discussion?