A) Tormod, the Desecrator is in play, my graveyard is filled with many cards and I cast Treasure Cruise. To pay for the cruise, I tap four lands and exile four cards from my graveyard with delve.
How many zombies do I get from Tormod?
(I know Tormod says it's one zombie "whenever one or more cards leave", but what I'm asking is if every single exiled card from delve is a seperate instance of "whenever", much like my lands are tapped separately one at a time, or if they all go at once? Either I get one or four zombies.)
B) Tormod is again in play and I play Flood of Recollection. Flood returns a card from my graveyard, creating a zombie. Then it exiles itself. Did it ever go to the graveyard before exiling itself, so that I now get a second zombie? Or does it exile itself rather than going to the graveyard at all?
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Jun 28, 2020urdjur posted a message on [[Primer]] [PAUPER] Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alara (UPDATE 07-2018!)Very interesting, bfine! I feel like with the current situation of new rules and prints, deck lists will become more streamlined and similar.Posted in: Variant Commander
Mana base: I think I will play almost exactly the same mana base as you, maybe distribution of basics and karoos will be slightly different, that's all. Any particular reason why you prefer Izzet Boilerworks over Golgari Rot Farm?
Altar's Reap, Perilous Research, and Village Rites: I notice you are missing Wretched Gryff. It is sorcery speed rather than instant speed, but only a single mana so easy to squeeze in. I think it is stronger even than Village Rites, because one extra card is rarely as good as a free 3/4 flyer. Also the card draw too is uncounterable. Perhaps it deserves a slot over one of Reap/Research? Also, running too many of these effects that require CoA on board and are redundant risk clogging up your hand. I really like your BEB/Hydro plan here for that reason - especially if you decide to cut Perilous Research. I'll have to give this some thought for my own list!
Coiling Oracle: Actually, a card I've had to reconsider yet again was Commander's Sphere. I was browsing through cards at EDHREC and saw how popular it was, and it got me thinking. If we compare it to cards that are typically run: Darksteel Ingot. The obvious comparison. It doesn't have the indestructible synergy with CoA, but instead it has a cantripping synergy so that you don't lose a card anyway. Darksteel Ingot is better in the first few turns when your mana is limited, Sphere is better later. It is in fact a very decently costed cycling mana source when you compare it to the cycling lands. For a net mana of 2, you get a gold source that cycles and RAMPS (ignores normal 1 land per turn rule). Same if you compare it to Rupture Spire and friends, that also set you back 2 mana the turn they are played, but follow normal 1 land per turn rules. And these lands used to be completely mainstream in triplicates in all lists! I think we've undervalued Commander's Sphere before, and now it's even better when we're cutting back on gold lands and want more ramp.
Whispers of the Muse and Rain of Revelation: You might have a point here. Another think I'll have to consider, the value of instant speed draw in the deck now. Impulse is also a card.
Deprive: I've considered this as well, and use it in Pesant 60 card decks with Sanctuary. My conclusion is that 1-for-1 counters just aren't worth building an engine around, especially one that halts your land drops. You'd much rather go from say 12 lands to 16 lands and get more mana for card draw, CoA replays and Capsizing than sit at 12 and counter a spell every few turns. In a 1-v-1 60 card deck, you are much more likely to not get more benefit from more land drops and can completely lock the game with this.
Spoils of Victory: I considered it also, but concluded that I couldn't abuse this with Sanctuary as much as I could using Crop Rotation and Reap and Sow. And it is kinda worse than all the other ramp spells, so I decided I wanted Commander's Sphere more.
Let me know how you like Growth Spiral and the instant speed draw when you've played a few games!
Jun 20, 2020urdjur posted a message on [[Primer]] [PAUPER] Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alara (UPDATE 07-2018!)Posted in: Variant CommanderQuote from bfine70 »I like most of your changes. I'm still messing with my build myself. I will likely be playing Village Rites somewhere, just not sure where. The mana is going to take the most work to nail down, especially with the thrive lands. I know you really like the Griffin, but I'm still not sold on it. Dimir House Guard is the least exciting of the tutors based on its limited targets and I think I'd rather run another recursion spell like Reaping the Graves over the Griffin or just running back Shade's Form (but also not big on those because no way to rebuy those later). How do you feel about Unwind and Rewind now that you're lower on the number of bouncelands?
I will probably be replacing Perilous Research with Village Rites. Only downside is no tutorability with Merchant Scroll, but now that we don't have to use tutoring for recursion as much, I don't think I'll miss that.
As for the thrive lands, they will replace some combination of my green life duals and some number of the gold lands. Still considering which combination will be best. The need for gold sources dimishes as we get better fixing, and Rupture Spire and friends are the slowest lands in the deck. Still, if there's more support for gates around the corner, Gateway Plaza might be good. I'm also not sure how the rules changes affect the decision to run Opal Palace. It's not that bad. If you use it twice, you will have lost as much mana space as from a single Rupture Spire. If it means casting 8+/8+ CoAs late game, what's not to like?
Griffin is one of few recursion effects that lets you keep a board position after blowing up CoA on an opp's turn. This leaves you less vulnerable to hasty attacks from other opponents until it is your turn again. Undying Evil and Kaya's Ghostform do the same. I'd rather run 2 Ghostform than the griffin, the the format is what it is. (You can run Shade's Form and friends here too, but they are more vulnerable to 2-for-1s than ghostform). Dimir House Guard should probably be grabbing Teachings or Reap and Sow before the griffin, but it's nice to have it in the CMC slot. Actually, I think Reaping the Graves is the way to go over Grim Harvest now (!) I'm still in a "CoA mindset" when thinking about recursion in the deck, but Reaping the Graves getting back two utility creatures is just so much more efficient. The fact that it can loop with CoA and a recursion wizard late game is just gravy really, it's so much more useful midgame than Harvest.
I think Unwind and Rewind are basically cute but overcosted Cancels and Negate. Meh. I actually have enough counters already and I'm thinking about cutting them. I know I want to add SGO back alongside Augur of Bolas - they are both super strong. I'm also a bit disappointed in Farseek because the tap clause has anti-synergy with Mystic Sanctuary. OTOH, sanctuary is nuts with Crop Rotation/Reap and Sow.
I'm looking at the various categories and thinking I do everything I want to do and I still have 3-4 slots to spare now with the rules change. I feel I'm already running the best cards and I'm unsure what to add more of. I'm taking a good hard look at Growth Spiral though. It seems like the best of the set of Growth Spiral, Explore and Coiling Oracle, and we could probably put one such effect to good use at any board position. Haven't felt this uncertain about the list in a long time!
Just putting my current thoughts on deck list here so I don't forget anything
Perilous Research -> Village Rites
Grim Harvest -> Reaping the Graves (most likely the better card with new rules)
(Mistmoon Griffin) possible cut as it is a few mana more expensive than Undying Evil/Ghostform. Graceful Reprieve is a possible replacement, but also strictly worse than Undying Evil. Growth Spiral is a strong card (not exactly necessary) that could take its place too. Cutting DHG is also a possibility if all it does is tutor for other tutors or card draw.
Sea Gate Oracle should go back into the now rather large draw section.
Rewind + Unwind need to go. One is replaced by SGO, the other by Soul Manipulation or Exclude. SM is arguably better mid to late game for getting back utility dudes rather than random draws, but Exclude is much better early to for example counter commanders with no card loss.
Farseek is meh. Swap for Commander's Sphere which is probably a much better gold source than the Rupture Spire cycle of lands.
Blossoming Sands is probably the best keep of the current green tap lands with only 1 plains in the deck. Consider cutting the rest and the Spire type lands for the new Thriving Lands. Consider adding Opal Palace which is better with the rules change and only really slower than the spire lands on your first CoA drop. Also Mortuary Mire should go back in (possible over an Island? going from 5 to 6 doesn't really matter much for Mystic Sanctuary) for utility creatures.
Jun 17, 2020urdjur posted a message on [[Primer]] [PAUPER] Crushing Dreams on a Budget - Child of Alara (UPDATE 07-2018!)With the rules update, I thought it was about time for my yearly list revision Here's how I've thought about the recursion spells:Posted in: Variant Commander
1) With the new rules, recasting CoA costs 2 more each time and doesn't cost a card (recursion spell), just as it does for every other commander. Great news! That means a card like Grim Harvest (probably our best recursion spell) only becomes interesting to tutor up about the 4th time that you want to cast CoA. Harvest costs 5 mana to use and doesn't waste a card thanks to the buyback, but casting CoA vanilla for the 4th time in the game only adds 6 mana in itself. So an easy argument can be made to keep Harvest for the really long game scenarios, but you don't want to tutor for it early, and you hardly need redundancy in additional "engine" copies like Reaping the Graves and such.
2) The remaining recursion spells can be divided into two categories: cards that "only" recur CoA (or another creature) and cards that CAN do so but have other uses. In the first category, I think it is only useful to keep the very best ones. I keep Undying Evil, Kaya's Ghostform and Mistmoon Griffin here, because they all give massive mana discounts and/or allows instant speed recursion to keep CoA up even if you kill it once during an opponent's turn. I cut Breath of Life and Reaping the Graves. In the second category, there are almost universally better options - in short, the added recursion ability adds a cost to the card. For example, since using Evolution Charm to recur CoA is now a loser, you're better off picking a better (more specialized/effective) green ramp/fetch spell instead.
The other big change to my list is that I've slightly reworked the mana base to take advantage of Mystic Sanctuary. This includes the addition of Farseek as a dedicated tutor for Sanctuary (or non-Forest basics) while also being a run-of-the-mill ramp spell.
TBH, the greatest change is actually in game play, more than the list itself. Not needing to spend tutors and set-up time on a recursion spell means you really only need mana and a sac outlet to flaunt the power of the deck in the face of your opponents
Jun 25, 2019Sad to hear the forums are going read only, but bfine70's initiative seems promising! I've not yet bothered with Discord, but MTGS going out will surely motivate me in the future. I've been moving and not having much time for the deck lately, but I just wanted to post my updated list here for posterity and mention a few cards that might be of interest to others:Posted in: Variant Commander
Vicious Offering: The best new sac outlet since Angelic Purge, and sort of a mix between it and Terminate. It works just like Terminate when you only need to off CoA, but has the upside of being able to handle indestructibles of up to 5 toughness as you blow up the world. It's also kinda useful removal on its own. I think anyone running Tragic Slip should consider it, or consider it over Angelic Purge if you have other exiling removal like Unmake and Forsake the Worldly.
Kaya's Ghostform: This new sexy toy shores up the biggest problem with the False Demise-type auras that saw play in the deck before, namely the 2-for-1 risk against exiling removal. The downside is that you can't play this on opp's creature to steal it when you blow up CoA, but that was always a win-more play and when this is a whopping 2 mana cheaper, who can complain?
Augur of Bolas: Yes, I finally went ahead and swapped Sea Gate Oracle for this wizard instead, and I haven't looked back. I run proportionately more instants and sorceries in my CoA build than competitive 60 card Augur of Bolas decks used to, so it's very rare that it fizzles.
Notion Rain: This is an improved Read the Bones with a slightly worse casting cost. I think everyone should run it. TBH, with so much quality card draw at 3 mana now, there's hardly a reason to run Foresee and Tamiyo's Epiphany anymore.
Geomancer's Gambit: The 3 mana LD spell that we've been waiting for. Now this deck handles all permanent types with good consistency and without running subpar and clonky cards like Scour from Existence or Wrecking Ball. Did you notice you can even use this on yourself as a red "Evolution Charm" (it costs 1 more, but puts the new land back untapped, so it evens out).
Mana base: The mana base continues to fascinate me. I'm very happy with the present balance of having sufficient amount of sources while having enough basics, making the most of your first two turns etc. You could certainly make an argument for running more panoramas, or a few more more basics, or more U/G ETBT duals, the G/W/R cycling lands or even a Trinket Mage package with artifact lands. Each configuration gains something and loses something, but you probably won't notice much difference unless you play many games, because of the inherent flexibility of gold sources and fetches.
Looking forward to continue discussing the deck on new forums!
Nov 16, 2018urdjur posted a message on [Unpowered/Rarity Distribution][Budget]Rarity CubeHi! I've co-crafted two cubes before, but this is the first time I'm making one for myself. I would very much appreciate feedback, if you'd care to read about my design parameters and take a gander at the list below.Posted in: Cube Lists
The overall idea is to make a cube with the same rarity distribution as you'd find in modern boosters. This means 1 rare, 3 uncommons and 10 commons per every 15 cards (the basic land slot normally found in boosters has some special considerations - see below). If you make suggestions, please respect the rarity of the card (lowest available rarity anywhere applies).
On the next level, we find 10 archetypes - one for each guild (tri-color and greater are banned for symmetry reasons). The rares and uncommons have not been picked based on maximum power level, but rather to support the archetypes and round out mana curves etc. As a guideline for the cube's power level, I've excluded cards like Skullclamp, Sol Ring and Overrun for being too much of an "I WIN"-button. There is also a $10 cap on cards both for budget reasons and to exclude disproportionately powerful rares. I don't really want rares that are significantly more powerful than cards like Isochron Scepter or Curse of Predation.
The basic land slot normally found as the 15th card in boosters posed a design problem since there are no basic lands within the cube and we traditionally want packs of 15 to draft with. My solution here was to include cards from various expansions that have all occupied the land slot - notably conspiracies, "draft matters" cards and timeshifted cards. These cards (24 slots total) break the normal rarity distribution rules in the cube. For ease of filtering/overview, I have tagged them all as "timeshifted" on cubetutor, so you can easily located them.
Also note that in a typical selection of 24 packs, you'd have an additional 4 foil cards, roughly distributed as 2 commons, 1 uncommon and 1 rare (in the place of 4 commons). This further distorts the rarity distribution, so that there is actually a total of 25 rares and 73 uncommons in the cube, in addition to the basic land slot special cards.
There are 4 cards per guild, 1 rare + 1 uncommon + 2 commons. For the most part, these cards support or imply a certain concept within the guild (there are exceptions: Kitchen Finks in the Selesnya uncommon slot actually supports the bounce/blink archetype found in several other guilds, more than the tokens archetype typical of Selesnya, because it's just such a good card for the cube and there is already plenty of token support in the mono colors).
The cube does not support the archetypes combo, reanimator or (gasp!) ramp. I wanted green to be about something else entirely than ramp, so it serves various roles in the midrange decks that it forms a part of. (This is not to say the cube is free from combos, ramp cards or reanimation spells - but there is no critical mass or archetype support).
The archetypes include:
Boros: Basic undercosted creatures and versatile removal, with the possibility for more of a tokens based go-wide strategy if so desired
Rakdos: Unleash-based aggro with some suicidal elements, sacrificing either card advantage or life total for kill speed
Izzet: Tempo/spells matters, prowess etc.
Selesnya: Tokens with some wrath protection support.
Golgari: Using graveyard builders to support delve and threshold is intended, but not necessary to draft the color.
Gruul: High-toughness creatures to go with Pyroclasm/Firespout and bounce in the form of Horned Kavu and Temur Sabretooth to reuse those Wall of Blossoms and Fire Imp. Doesn't mind splashing white for more bounce/blink effects.
Simic: Flash creatures and instant spells. You'll notice that green has a larger-than-expected instant section.
Azorius: ETB-creatures control with lots of bounce and blink effects.
Dimir: Similar to azorius, but more draw over creature density, and using utility reanimation to compensate for lack of white blink/bounce.
Orzhov: Does it annoy you when your opponent has non-land permanents in play? Lots of removal, a few wincons with blink or reanimation for protection.
Land selection: I've included the pain lands in the three aggro colors. Rare slots are at a real premium in the cube, but I feel these are well spent. In the non-aggro colors, you'll find ravnica karoos instead. I also included the refuge reprints as they are common rarity and pretty OK. Gemstone Mine turned out to be a time-shifted card, which saved me an uncommon slot! I don't have room for the tri-lands, but I did manage to fit the vivids (they also have more synergy with karoos).
Semi-colored colorless cycle: Oketra's Monument, Crystal Shard, Scrapheap Scrounger, Shrine of Burning Rage and Pendelhaven form a mini-cycle that are best with their respective color but can be played in others too. Subtle symmetries like these make my heart sing for some reason
Mystic Enforcer: A bit of an odd card in the cube. As a timeshifted card, he saves me a "true" rare slot and has a subtle synergy with selesnya tokens - the token creating spells all build threshold. With threshold, he is hard to remove and evades even most of the cube's sweepers. He's also eminently splashable in golgari.
Avatar of Woe: Another timeshifted rare. Hardly the most pressing card to run as black's 3rd rare (each color has 3 rares and 10 uncommons, and one of those will be timeshifted), but it is cards like this that enable me to spend 3 rare slots on pain lands. Basically smearing a sufficient amount of semi-powerful rares across the cube makes draft picks like Curse of Predation less swingy, and the timeshifted cards help greatly with this.
Sovereign's Realm: Pretty much the only realistic way to play 4+ colors in the cube - at the price of hymning yourself. I also like this for not hogging mana fixing and being self-sufficient.
Advantageous Proclamation: Included to better support mono-colored decks, or decks with small splashes for a second color. More variety for the drafters!
Green-producing mana elves: The cube curves out at 6 CMC. I don't want to support ramp and reanimator with 7+ CMC bombs, so instead I prioritize mana-fixing elves. If you're in golgari, producing even more green mana when you can already cast your elf is less useful than gaining a black source - hence Elves of Deep Shadow over Fyndhorn Elves.
Signets: For the same reason as mana elves. Also, I want to promote the bicolor archetypes, and TOO much good fixing makes tri-color decks come too easily. I envision splashing for a third color as an added benefit mostly for green decks.
Double Stroke: Just makes already good spells even more swingy, which is exactly what I don't want. Same with many other problematic conspiracies that I've deliberately omitted.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE HELP WITH
Mono-colored commons: 37 each and 10 archetypes to support makes it very hard to get an overview of what's optimal. Am I missing any good cards for my archetypes?
Rares and uncommons: Are there better cards out there in these rarities to support my archetypes? Or are perhaps some archetypes over-supported by rares and uncommons, such that I should run others that are generically more attractive picks or more versatile?
Higher order design recommendations: For example, if you think that archetype X is just a pipe dream that won't pan out and make for unhappy draft experiences, don't hesitate to suggest it (even if it will ruin weeks of thinking and planning
Thanks for reading this far!
Nov 3, 2018I see. Well, I guess that makes me more sure of keeping Sprout Swarm, but I'm still not quite sure if Scatter the Seeds merits a spot, even though tokens is the main selesnya archetype in my cube. I'm leaning towards keeping itPosted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Nov 2, 2018Oh, sorry I was unclear. I asked about commons, because those were hardest for me to overview - I do run a peasant cube though (actually not quite: I run a rarity distribution cube, which is 24 rares, 72 uncommons and the rest common at 360, but that's a bit beside the point - what matters is that uncommons and rares come at a premium and archetypes need common rarity support to work).Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
Thanks for the Link. My problem is evaluating the "cubable" section within itself. For example, you list Raise the Alarm and Gather the Townsfolk in the same "cubable" category. Since I don't have room for all that is cubable, which ones do I pick?
I will probably be running Sprout Swarm then. I just think that, if Sprout Swarm is such a good card, then Scatter the Seeds must be too - for 5 mana and convoke, one gives you 3 tokens and costs you a card, the other gives you 1 token and doesn't.
Nov 2, 2018Hi all! I've been tinkering with my cube for weeks now, and I'm doing some finishing touches. I've referred to the Evaluate Everything thread and cubetutor's average cubes, but I still can't seem to evaluate the green and white token producing commons (I want tokens to be Selesnya's "archetype", for design reasons).Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
I've decided that nothing at or below Krenko's Command level makes the cut, meaning there must be a small upside, as in the case of Raise the Alarm (instant speed) or Gather the Townsfolk (fateful hour, marginal as it may be). Still, I come up with more options than I think even a dedicated token maker would want to actually put in their deck. Here are the common rarity ones I have at present:
It seems people value Triplicate Spirits over Scatter the Seeds? Is flying that important on tokens that it's worth costing 1 more mana and being sorcery rather than instant speed? Does the value of Scatter the Seeds increase if I also support a Simic flash archetype (which I do)?
I'm pretty sure I want all of the creatures (except perhaps Scion Summoner). I'm also set on Raise the Alarm and Battle Screech.
What about Fists of Ironwood, Saproling Migration and Gather the Townsfolk? All sorcery speed, two mana and producing 2 ground bound tokens. Fists requires another target on the board, making it a shady 2-drop, so it's probably weakest. I'm also thinking about removing Gather the Townsfolk, because it's just so much worse than the other white options. I'm thinking about keeping Saproling Migration just to have a good green 2-drop (except Jade Mage).
I worry that Cenn's Enlistment and Sprout Swarm might be too slow, and that even a dedicated token deck might not run them in the main. But perhaps they are OK as SB cards in the control match-up? Or is that line of reasoning just a way to clog up your cube with unwanted cards?
Jul 31, 2018Thanks for chiming in Overheat While I don't think we need a so called "graveyard engine" to win, I do agree that it's prudent to have a back-up to Grim Harvest. Perhaps it's so crucial that it should be part of the core? I think the best second fiddle to Harvest is Disturbed Burial. It doesn't sit in the yard and requires no other creatures. Maybe everybody should just run it? Then we can cut the 2 CMC one shot effects from the land packages and make them optional in the flex slots instead, since then everyone will have two good 2 CMC recursion targets for their tutors.Posted in: Variant Commander
Jul 26, 2018Here's a combination of two variant formats: TL and PDH! So we have an uncommon commander, an all-commons deck of 49 cards, and all cards are less than or equal to CMC 3. This deck draws heavy inspiration from the UR Kiln Fiend decks in 60-card Pauper, and the UR Prowess decks in Modern. However, it is also kind of a wizard tribal deck, though some non-wizards fit even better with the deck concept and reduce the reliance on Adeliz being in play.Posted in: Variant Commander
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards COMMANDER (1)
3 Adeliz, the Cinder Wind
1 Delver of Secrets
1 Ghitu Lavarunner
2 Sanguinary Mage
2 Spellweaver Eternal
2 Kiln Fiend
2 Elusive Spellfist
2 Augur of Bolas
3 Nivix Cyclops
3 Wee Dragonauts
1 Crimson Wisps
1 Shadow Rift
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
2 Psychotic Fury
2 Temur Battle Rage
1 Slip Through Space
1 Crash Through
1 Warlord's Fury
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Chain Lightning
1 Gut Shot
1 Command Tower
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Ash Barrens
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
Sideboard to be decided but will probably contain stuff like Repeal, Flame Slash and Dispel. Comments very welcome!
Jul 26, 2018Posted in: Variant CommanderMan, that Forge of Heroes looks amazing. Think about the blink engine working and Adeliz entering (casting or blinking). Fatality. I will have this one in my brew (and maybe an Expedition Map to fetch it), period.
I think it's good for the standard build, but not for Tiny Leaders. You don't want to delay your game plan a turn just to get that counter, plus there is no blink engine. I'm gonna start a new thread about the tiny build, so as not to further derail this one.
Jul 25, 2018Posted in: Variant CommanderI did not mean that any of the cards are weak. Perhaps it would be better to simply remove the control package? From my pov, the only thing that makes it a package is the aethermage + pridemage part (and the former is seemingly moving to core), the rest are just good stuff, and not really better together.
Indeed. Actually, there is a bit of a "package" when looking at Angelic Purge, because it has so many functions in one. It's not good at anything, so you can run better stuff, but it will take up more space. Since more space is a luxury that goes away with the Drake/Brainspoil package, it stands to reason that these builds will be running Purge. But you might be able to do either if you cut corners elsewhere, like in your flex slots. So it's really a separate "deal".
One thing though, I think rend flesh is weaker than victim of night, because 2 mana is so much less than 3 - on the other hand, tribal vampire or zombie are more common than spirit and there are a few annoying vampires we might want to kill before blowing up the child (that said, seedborn muse can be important too)
Victim is clearly the stronger card, however, I think the main reason to run another effect like this is the 3 CMC cost itself. The core already has Terminate (even better than Victim), and 2 other 2 CMC outlets, while there is only 1 at 3CMC (Mind Extraction). So Angelic Purge or Primal Growth has kinda deprecated the need for this slot, but you might end up not running either of those I guess and in that case rend flesh is almost a must. I think Victim is good enough in its own right though that I might include it in the primer, but it gets stiff competition from stuff like Wrecking Ball and Tragic Slip.
Do you see any potential on Forge of Heroes on this deck? I don't think so...
Me neither. Opal Palace is already our weakest gold land and this does even less and fixes no mana.
Jul 22, 2018I chose an approach more typical for the pauper U/R kiln fiend decks we all know. Basically, Adeliz is a nice bonus with this deck but not at all necessary to win.Posted in: Variant Commander
DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards LEADER (1)
3 Adeliz, the Cinder Wind
1 Delver of Secrets
1 Drifter il-Dal
1 Ghitu Lavarunner
2 Augur of Bolas
2 Kiln Fiend
2 Sanguinary Mage
2 Spellweaver Eternal
2 Stonybrook Banneret
3 Aven Wind Mage
3 Nivix Cyclops
3 Wee Dragonauts
1 Lightning bolt
1 Titan's Strength
1 Crimson wisps
1 Spell Pierce
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Psychotic Fury
1 Assault Strobe
1 Slip Through Space
1 Shadow Rift
1 Distortion Strike
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Chain Lightning
1 Gut Shot
1 Command Tower
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Ash Barrens
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
IMO, wizards that only bring unblockability to the table are too bad in a build like this. We have so many excellent such effects in instants/sorceries anyway. Wingcrafter is the only exception because it's such a good 1-drop, and it doesn't have to tap to give its benefit to another creature.
Crimson Wisps and Expedite are there for any creatures you top deck after t3. The deck aims to kill at t4 or possibly t5, though a t3 kill is possible (Kiln Fiend). If you have Kiln Fiend or Cyclops, chances are you won't even bother with playing Adeliz.
I decided against the tap duals as I don't really need more fixing and I want speed. Wilds, expanse and barrens (and merchant scroll) all provide shuffling effects for Brainstorm.
EDIT: Removed Merchant Scroll and Jilt that was just too cute. Then had to remove Electromancer too for not having enough inst/sorc with colorless in their costs. Put in drifter il-dal instead.
EDIT2: Drifter il-Dal is bad, but that's beside the point. I've been toying around with the deck and noticed how it's different from UR Fiend in some fundamental ways.
1) UR Fiend runs 4x Fiend and 4x Cyclops - only 8 creatures in a 60 card deck that respond favorably to vomiting spells and then giving double strike for the win. This deck *can* do that sometimes when the cards align, but more often it wants to amass a certain number of wizards to achieve the same effect. "Same" meaning that for each spell you cast, you want to bump the power on your board with 3, whether that comes from 1 Kiln Fiend/Cyclops, 1 sanguinary mage + adeliz or 2 non-prowess wizards and adeliz.
2) Since you tend to have more creatures on the board than fiend and spread out the pump among them, double strike effects tend to be slightly worse. Overload effects and things that grant benefits to your entire team are correspondingly better.
3) UR Fiend plays 4 Ponder, 4 Probe and 4 Preordain - some even run a few Serum Visions. They can afford to run fewer land as they rarely have a 1-drop, and can dig for their 3rd or even 2nd land. Our game plan is ideally to play wizards on turns 1-3 (or tap land on turn 1, and we might even drop adeliz on t4), leaving little room to dig. However, with lots of land, you risk mana flooding if you fizzle on your fundamental turn - from all those cantrip effects you used to pump your team. I think the solution is to play wizards like Sage of Epityr and Omenspeaker, while also running the red and blue lands that cycle for R and U respectively and at least 17 land.
I'm gonna reflect on these insights and update my build later today
Jul 21, 2018Guys, this looks cool! I was thinking about doing Adeliz for Tiny Leaders, as I think it's the best option for pauper. I think it can be competitive even against full power TL decks if built right. I was thinking something along the lines of UR Delver. Any suggestions in particular?Posted in: Variant Commander
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Apr 20, 2014Yes, I detail this in the strategy section (not casting CoA without mana/sac open being a good idea against disruption). However, cards like Altar's Reap and Primal Growth should be mandatory in a heavy blue meta IMO. Heavy draw spells like Rhystic Study helps even more than Horizon Spellbomb, but d0su's not running them. Deep Analysis at least should be good against counters. It just doens't make a whole lot of sense to me as a deck tailored towards a blue meta, but I decided to mention it a bit in the deck commentary nevertheless.Posted in: urdjur Blog
I've found a few more budget rares that are quite interesting that I've added to the list. Hoping to get more feedback from others before I publish on the forum.
Apr 18, 2014Here are the remaining two sections. I think the word document is now largely finished - 27 pages! After considering your comments, I'll make a basic formatting effort and post the thread in the Variant forum, then keep formatting and adding LOTS of card tags and making additional improvements based on thread comments etc. Then about a month from now, I'll apply for primer status with the comittee.Posted in: urdjur Blog
Overheat - I never added your decklist to the primer as d0su's has changed his list so it's more similar to yours (with the REBs etc). Biggest difference is the guildgates, but I discuss them already in the Shell, so I don't know. Any idea on how to fit it in nicely? Or maybe you could just post it and discuss it yourself in a reply in the soon to be primer thread?
Now it's time to put the core and the shell together. We'll start by taking a closer look at a classic Pauper list that has a somewhat different approach than what's suggested in the primer. A basic budget non-pauper list the follows, which also forms the basis for the "adding money" discussion in the section below.
Decklists - Pauper
Consider the following decklist by d0su, originator of the Pauper Dreamcrusher. This list is current as of January 2014 - I have gently restructured it to fit the terms and categories used in the primer.
This is a very interesting list. By ignoring the intense focus on dropping CoA turn 4, d0su gets away with much more card advantage and an essentially UBG mana base. It may look slow, but it has been proven and refined over three years time - and at rather cutthroat tables, I might add.
Let's look at the shell first. The most striking thing is the utter lack of guildgates. This creates space for other ETBT lands, namely a whole bunch of cycling lands. These can then be recurred by green's "Mulldrifter", Tilling Treefolk. In the Ghostly Flicker engine (or with Capsize), it becomes the Pauper version of Life from the Loam with those cycling lands. Hence, more panoramas make sense too, to draw out all the basics. With little concern for turn 4 specifically, d0su can compensate the lack of guildgates with more but slower multi-fixing.
With raw card advantage being the main plan, it also makes sense to run heavier stuff like Forbidden Alchemy and Yavimaya Elder. I'm not a fan of Rhystic Study in decks without massive mana denial, and I also wonder about the use of Horizon Spellbomb over Mycosynth Wellspring (the former is a Trinket Mage target however, but seems overcosted). I think I'd rather run the three U, B and G artifact lands (a notable omission with a Trinket Mage package) and the Wellspring instead. However, these are minor concerns that largely come down to player preference.
The core seems very solid and uncontroversial to me, and gives new players a useful sense of proportions in the Pauper deck. I think the sacrifice outlets are a little light however - I'd probably play Perilous Research (makes better use of Merchant Scroll) and Primal Growth (say, over Rhystic Study and Prophetic Prism). This would also allow the "sac outlets" to be used more for their other purposes (like spot removal). Quasali Pridemage is a superb choice of multi-purpose 2 CMC removal alongside Oblivion Ring. However, I miss Vedalken Aethermage with all these multi-purpose wizards. Scrivener could probably be cut for it.
All in all, this deck shows that there's more than one way to destroy the world and dominate with a cheapskate deck. In fact, a plan focusing more on card advantage and less on an early CoA could be the better way to go for a pure Pauper build - it will allow you to skimp on Plains and Mountains without shame at least. It's also an interesting comparison to the budget non-pauper build that I'm about to present.
Decklists - The Basic Budget Deck
The basic budget deck will cost you about $80, as many of the cards are still commons or dirt cheap rares, but super strong nevertheless. Upgrades for the more pronounced budget options are discussed in the adding money section.
So the table of contents is roughly INTRODUCTION - CARD SELECTION - DECKLISTS - OVERALL STRATEGY - ADDING MONEY TO THE DECK. Just so you don't get lost in all the copy/pasting.
ADDING MONEY TO THE DECK
The basic budget build is rather adequate on its own, but you can of course improve it further by increasing the budget. Before you go ahead and invest in premium duals and fetches though, there are other more pressing concerns that will add much more bang for your buck. This section sorts them roughly by "cost-benefit", starting small and going up.
Adding Money - Basic Shell Improvements ($35)
These changes are recommended to do first, as they improve your shell and solidify your game plan.
Grim Backwoods -> Phyrexian Tower. It will cost you $12, but it is the best sac outlet in the game (a mana ability that cannot be responded to). Drawing cards is nice and all, but it's simply no compensation for a net difference of 6 mana.
Halimar Depths -> Mystical Tutor. Make your game plan even more solid for only $5. Gets so much powerful stuff in the deck.
Expedition Map -> Tolaria West. A better land tutor since it's also a t2 blue source (replaces Halimar Depths in that department) and works with LftL. Another $5.
I'd also recommend replacing your three worst lands with Sylvan Scrying ($3, can be played t2 and thus replace a land), City of Brass and Forbidden Orchard ($5 each). If you're using the budget shell as suggested, I'd cut Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse and Vivid Creek (fewer ETBT lands means a quicker clock, plus you reduce strain on your basic lands. Panoramas don't ETBT and can produce mana on their own, so cutting the basic fetches is a greater priority).
Adding Money - Emeria Overhaul (about $60)
This package adds the 4 shock dual Plains to the mana base to enable Emeria, the Sky Ruin as a significantly stronger land-based recursion option than Moorland Haunt. This also solidifies the mana base much more, and enables your Plains fetchers to fix any color. Emeria + shock duals costs a few more dollars than a Volrath's Stronghold, but is a MUCH more effective recursion engine, while also greatly improving your mana fixing. Improved land tutors that help assemble Emeria and your other utility lands is also part of the package.
3 basics + 1 Panorama -> 4 shock dual Plains: You can't drop your single basic Mountain, but you can go down to 3 Island, 1 Forest and 1 Swamp. The other 2 panoramas also get replaced in this overhaul. Sacred Foundry, Godless Shrine, Hallowed Fountain and Temple Garden will cost you about $25-30.
Seaside Citadel -> Flood Plain: Like Grasslands and Krosan Verge, this now fixes all colors, and has synergy with LftL. It also finds Mistveil Plains and helps you assemble Emeria.
Moorland Haunt -> Emeria, the Sky Ruin: Another free recursion engine is nothing to scoff at. The Odyssey filter lands that previously launder colorless mana will now help you launder any excess white mana that may arise instead. $4.
2 Panoramas -> Tithe ($4) and Flagstones of Trokair ($10): Both of these get Plains, which mean they now fix every color and help you assemble Emeria. Flagstones further improves your resilience to mass LD, and has synergy with Ghost Quarter (and Perilous Research) if you're still running it (the two form a rather cute engine with Life from the Loam!).
Reap and Sow -> Scapeshift/Primeval Titan: Both of these help assemble Emeria and are more powerful (but more expensive) land tutors than Reap and Sow. IMO, the Titan is the more powerful option, but it may be banned depending on which list your group goes by. Both are roughly at the same price point (around $15).
Adding Money - Better Tutors (about $50)
Demonic Tutor: The most popular tutor in EDH will cost you about $15-20. You now have so strong fixing that getting black on t2 isn't very challenging, so you can probably swap a land for this.
Intuition: Arguably the best triple tutor available, perfect for setting up Life from the Loam with your key lands, or getting whatever you desire with Genesis and Eternal Witness. About $30. Could replace a transmuter or something else if you prefer.
Adding Money - Dark Depths Package (about $75)
This package changes the feel of the deck by changing win conditions somewhat. Particularly recommended if you have played the deck for a while and want to change things up a little.
Fallen Ideal -> Dark Depths: As you become more land focused, Fallen Ideal plays out its role as a sac outlet and with money to spend, also as a win condition. Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage is a pretty awesome combo in Child of Alara, as the token doesn't care about your general sweeper and you can churn out one 20/20 indestructible flyer per turn with Life from the Loam, which should quickly overwhelm exiling effects. Tutors like Intuition and Scapeshift make this happen frighteningly fast. Marit Lage production will presently set you back $55 due to the popularity of the combo.
Three Dreams -> Thespian's Stage: Three Dreams loses value without Fallen Ideal, as you now have fewer targets for it and lose its ability to assemble sac outlet + recursion in a single tutor. Drop it to make room for the other part of the combo. Stage also works as a gold land or extra utility land, but it's hard to find mana to activate it before a t4 CoA, so it probably shouldn't be considered until this point. Only $2.
Bequeathal -> Diabolic Intent: Bequeathal isn't necessary when you drop Three Dreams. Replace the sac outlet you lost from Fallen Ideal by swapping it for an extra Demonic Tutor for a mere $6. Intent is probably not stronger than the other sac outlets you run in the basic build however, so you have to wait for a vacancy to fit it.
Alchemist's Refuge -> Boseiju, Who Shelters All: A more powerful counter-measure to counterspells, that works well with your buyback spells and new tutors. Most of your stuff is instant speed now anyway, so Refuge is less needed. About $8 - well worth the investment.
Dance of the Dead -> Corpse Dance: Now more easy to tutor for, plus it works better with the Refuge/Boseiju swap. Only $3.
Adding Money - Further Shell Improvements ($ as much as you like)
These upgrades cost much and offers comparatively little improvement. You're probably better off improving on other decks.
Reflecting Pool: The next-in-line land improvement. $12 - cheap at this point. Having replaced your ETBT fixers (except your awesome fetch lands that are more important than this) already however, the incremental advantage is small. This could arguably replace the third Island, but I think I'd rather have the basic land. It could easily replace your worst rainbow land, but is probably worse than your filter lands. You probably want to keep Murmoring Bosk for Krosan Verge until you add more Forest duals.
Sensei's Divining Top: As it can dig, it could easily replace your worst land, much like Reflecting Pool. Your 2-drop tutors and digs are adding up now however, but it's a good card. $20 if you're lucky.
True Fetch Lands: These could easily replace your 2 budget Mirage fetches and even your worst rainbow lands since they are better with LftL. The 4-5 cheapest of the lot are about $50 a pop (Arid Mesa, Marsh Flats, Windsweap Heath etc), so they will give you the most bang for your buck and you don't have room for many more anyways.
True Duals: Plateau, Tundra and Scrubland are each at roughly the same price point as the cheaper fetches ($50), so they could replace a basic Plains, Murmoring Bosk and Sacred Foundry. Not sure I'd recommend investing in ABUR duals beyond that, unless you completely rework the shell somehow.
Volrath's Stronghold: Will cost you about $25. Could replace some other source of recursion, but I can't imagine that I'd want to cut anything for it, let alone invest in it for this deck.
Diamond Valley: A moderately played one can be yours for less than $100! Completely unnecessary and much worse than Phyrexian Tower IMO. Spend your dollars on other decks, or something more important than Magic.
Apr 18, 2014bfine70 - will look over trigger vs. activate as I polish up, good call! Also agreed on Altar's Reap-type cards.Posted in: urdjur Blog
All - here is the Introduction main section, preceeding the Card Selection section. Its subsections are hopefully clear from the basic formatting provided.
The concept of 5-Color Control for the common man was first popularized on MTGS by d0su in his legendary Dreamcrusher thread in early 2011. The idea was that using Child of Alara as a Commander compensated for the complete lack of solid sweepers in the common card pool, while using only commons provided for a very cheap deck that still had the power to go up against full power EDH decks, especially in multiplayer.
As the concept of Pauper EDH has consolidated more towards using uncommon creatures as Commanders, and the "Dreamcrusher" build has proven more adapted for regular EDH tables than Pauper settings anyway, the need for adhering strictly to commons has been called into question. While using only commons remains the cheapest way to build CoA, adding even just a few uncommons greatly helps the deck overcome some inherent design challenges and also makes for shorter games (while all commons list can eventually establish control just as well, games go on and tend to be very grindy and durdly).
While there is already a multiplayer primer on using Child of Alara to create a lands-type deck focusing on Life from the Loam and utility lands, this primer will focus more on using Child of Alara itself (even though the non-Pauper builds included here also make use of LftL and utility lands, simply because it would be silly not to). Thus, the primary focus of these builds will be on how to sacrifice and recur CoA as efficiently as possible, and other strategies that are supportive of this concept. While the primer assumes a multiplayer environment, there is nothing stopping you from trying these builds out 1v1 either, especially the "full power" budget version.
Pauper, Peasant and Budget - a Word on Terminology
Since around 2010, there's been an increasing interest for "PDH" or Pauper EDH - a process that this very archetype has helped fuel. At the time however, there was little consensus on what exactly constituted a PDH deck. Can CoA with all commons be considered "Pauper", when the general is mythic rare and the deck is constructed to abuse it as much as possible?
These days, there is a pretty strong consensus that Pauper EDH means using an uncommon (or possibly even common), most likely non-legendary, creature as your Commander, and only commons in your 99. For purposes of this primer however, the "Pauper" build refers to using only commons in the deck, despite CoA being mythic rare. The term is not an endorsement suggesting that a CoA build using only commons has a place at tables where others are running Zameck Guildmage or Ascended Lawmage as Commanders.
There is even less consensus on what constitutes a "Peasant" EDH deck - another format descriptor borrowed from the world of 60 card Magic. Most agree that standard EDH rules apply, but that you're excluding rares from your 99. Some groups or shops go further and limit the amount of uncommons you can run (the equivalent of 5 uncommons in a 60 card deck would be 8 in a 99 card deck, but numbers vary).
Regardless of whether you're using rarity restrictions or just want a competitive but affordable 5C control deck, this is the definitive CoA primer for you! It discusses inexpensive card choices of all rarities, Pauper and budget decklists, and strategy both on a general level and individual card level.
Why Play Child of Alara?
The Pauper version of this deck might be for you if:
*You like having Planar Cleansing as your Commander
*You want to play a workable 5C control deck in EDH that costs less than its sleeves
*You like it when people playing $1000+ decks say your deck is unfair and boring
The Pauper version might not be for you if:
*You intend to play against decks using uncommon Commanders
*You want a good game against fast decks 1v1
*You want something simple to pilot that wins quickly
The budget version might be for you if:
*You like having Planar Cleansing as your Commander, except it costs 0 to reuse, draws you cards and gains you life
*You want to play a competitive 5C control deck in EDH for less than $100
*You dislike a battlefield cluttered with non-land permanents
The budget version might not be for you if:
*You consider aggro or combo as a goal unto itself rather than just a win condition
*You like fair decks that don't steal or reanimate opposing creatures, or force mass discard in the early turns
*You're more interested in playing against other PDH decks with uncommon Commanders
Quick Deck Statistics
Preferred Environment: Multiplayer (any build) or 1v1 (non-pauper builds)
Casual/Competitive: Semi Competitive
Average CMC: About 2.5-2.8 depending on build (though mana demands depend much more on the effectiveness of your recursion engines, than on average CMCs)
Deck Cost [AVG]: ?? ??
Deck MVP: Depends on build and budget, but Capsize and Mind Extraction are always all-stars.
Strengths: Board control, counters, hand disruption
Weaknesses: Graveyard hate, mana denial
Flexibility - How well does the deck combat threats and come back from resource denial/negation?
(8/10) The deck is built around coming back advantageously from mass resource denial. Counters are largely ineffective. Big draw can recover from hand disruption. The biggest problems are graveyard removal and mass LD, especially for the Pauper version.
Efficiency - How well does the deck use its mana base? Does it focus on big bombs or a slow power creep?
(7/10) The Pauper deck can easily use up more than 20 mana/turn. The non-pauper deck can use more than 10 mana/turn but rarely has the need to, since most of the primary deck engines run on little mana.
Consistency - Out of 10 games, how many will be played in similiar or nearly identical ways?
(6-9/10) Very much pilot dependent. You can make every game almost exactly the same, but this will suck the fun out of most games. Consult the strategy section for tips on mixing it up.
Speed - How quickly can this deck take over a table?
(5-9/10) The Pauper deck is the undisputed king of durdling, tutoring for tutors that tutor for recursion that recur tutors etc. - that sort of thing. However, it can also consistently board wipe on turn 5. The non-pauper deck can do that or force everyone to discard their hands by turn 5 without breaking a sweat. It also recovers much faster from the first board wipe.
Style - Does the deck kill you the same way every game, or does it have a million and one ways to finish you off?
(7/10) Multiple win conditions can be included when needed. Typically, the deck closes games with general damage or insurmountable resource denial, but infinite combos and even direct damage are possibilities.
Perceived Threat - How politically threatening is this deck when you show everyone your commander?
(6-9/10) Depends a lot on how you pilot it (see the Strategy section), but once the table knows what you can do, don't expect any silk mittens even if your deck is all commons.
Also, here is the Strategy section after Card Selection, before the section on adding money to the deck. Let me know what you think!
Much of the tactics for playing the deck is discussed in the description of the card(s) in question, and the early game plan is outlined in detail in the Shell section. This section will briefly discuss broader political and strategic considerations.
You Are Control
While acceleration your early mana development is probably always a good thing to do, dropping CoA on turn 4 isn't actually necessary unless the board state demands it. It might not even be the best thing to do even if you can - if you draw attention to yourself and your opponents are packing counters or exiling removal. You might want to spend turn 4 on tutoring for a sac outlet or recursion piece, and perhaps even more ramp, and then drop CoA on turn 5-6 instead with counter back-up or a sac outlet ready. If you can grab control over the game quickly, go for it - but never risk losing control of the game because you want to actually win quickly. Killing is simply a formality. It's rendering your opponents helpless and making their efforts futile that wins the game.
Also, You Are God
While you do demand the sacrifice of a child for the permanent sins of your opponents, you should try not to make your existence too obvious. Let the humans play! It's always best if you know that you have the world in your murderous killing vise, while at the same time letting your opponents think that they have a real shot at eternal life. Don't look like the bad guy. Be the good guy, that saves the table from the brink of disaster! Every time. Of course, there was never any real threat of disaster, but as long as your opponents think it was a close call and that someone else almost had you - had them all in fact - you will get to keep playing your favorite deck and not get hated out. Make your friends into your prophets! They shall prepare the second coming of the Child of Judgment! The security of the table rests in your fatherly hands.
God is an Entertainer
Yes, you can blow up the world whenever you feel like it, but if that is ALL your deck is doing, simply because it magically happens to hose every strategy at the table, your opponents won't have any fun, and pretty soon, you won't either. So mix it up. Maybe one game you can rely on the Oblivion Ring/Capsize engine instead, or the Ghostly Flicker engine with infinite counters and removal. Or their equivalent rare counterparts, Archon of Justice and Mystic Snake. Or maybe you just reset the board once when it really matters, and then reanimate one of your opponent's juicy creatures and attempt to ride it to the win, protecting it with counters. Once in a while, try to win as quickly as possible, perhaps with the Jarad's Orders -> Myojin/Double combo, as this creates a useful distraction to your otherwise inescapable domination of the board. If people lose spectacularly once in a while, they are more OK with losing inevitably the rest of the time. Even if a drastic move will cost you the game, losing once in a while is only a benefit for your deck's reputation. Rather than always playing your deck so it is unbeatable, you can try to make it entertaining whenever you can afford to do so, since that will make it even more unbeatable (socially) in the long run.
Apr 17, 2014@Overheat:Posted in: urdjur Blog
- The game plan is described under "The Core - Sacrifice Outlets, Recursion and Engine Pieces". Perhaps it would be better to move parts of it to an earlier section, the one describing history and who the deck is for etc, so the newbie reader doesn't get overwhelmed? Formatting will help also, as you say.
- Yes, that is the reason I drop Far Wanderings, Harrow and Myconsynth Wellspring from the budget build - too much strain on too few basics. Are you saying 17 basics isn't enough to support it in the Pauper build either, making that an argument against artifact lands? Not sure I'd agree there. Do you think I need to bring out the awesomeness of Far Wanderings more in its card description?
- Swedish spells "Address" with one D, hence my confusion. Consider it found and replaced!
- Yes, I'm aware about the Panoramas. The fact that they get better with rares is due to the Odyssey Filter Lands, not because they can get shocks/duals (which aren't even mentioned in this section, but come into play when you start considering way more money and Emeria, The Sky Ruin). They also get better with LftL (like all fetches). I'll remove the part of them getting better with rares if it's confusing and leads the mind to consider shocks/duals.
- Divination needs mention at least as a benchmark, if not a recommendation. Compulsive Research is an oversight - should be in the Support - Commons section. It's very solid.
Yes, please do PM me your current decklist. Ideally sorted by function and using CMCs before each spell rather than just "1" (helps evalute what transmuters can get, as well as the curve). I include a reformatted version of d0su's current list, that uses the same categories as the primer, so if you could follow that layout it would be great:
Apr 16, 2014Okay, I've posted the Card Selection part - the meatiest section. It's just pure unformatted content right now (MANY card tags etc. to add), but at least it's something to work with. The basic blog interface seems terrible for formatting primers though - couldn't even find card tag buttons on that interface, even though they are here in the comments section. Is there a sandbox part of the forum where we could set up shop, like a secret thread seen only by us or not drawing attention to itself?Posted in: urdjur Blog
Looking forward to your comments. I'll post the other sections as I finish them.
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