Thanks for the reply, I saw you were testing Negate in your notes. Where do you like to side it in? You said it's a trap sometimes to bring it in, but where do you think it's justified? Also, how do you feel about Swan Song instead? It's a bit easier to cast, and fulfills much of the same functionaliy. The only key difference methinks is it's ability to hit 'Walkers and Artifacts (so Tron), but it does take down Kolaghan's Commands on pivotal turns, helps you protect from countermagic on 4 when trying to stick a bridge, and has bonus upside against Keranos. What do ya'll think?
How do the Leylines feel? I've seen a lot of them running around lately and haven't tried them out. They seem kinda bad unless you just have it in your opening hand. Furthermore, when you occasionally don't have control over your draws, it can languish in your hand and really set back our ability to lock things down with a Bridge/Jar/Ruins type of game (e.g. Jund, Grixis...). What matches do you like to bring that in against? Also, what are you siding the Grid in against? Isn't the Pyroclasm generally better, especially when you have access to the full four Pithing Needle to deal with things that are instant speed and/or your opponent's turn only? Thanks for the reply!
Hey there everyone, I was thinking about changing the sideboard configuration a bit from the traditional setup. I'm using the GP Oklahoma City sideboard right now and have been pretty happy with it, but I was considering dumping the burn matchup entirely and focusing on shoring up other matchups. Do ya'll think it would make sense to just scoop it up to burn, since even post-board numbers aren't great? Furthermore, does anyone have a different sideboard configuration with some other tech (either past or present) that has been working for them? For example, awhile ago I was testing Quiet Disrepair, which was pretty good, but not exactly optimal either.
Lastly, does anyone have specific sideboard guides/advice for writing them? I want to be prepared for the upcoming rPTQ and have a fully typed up guide. Is there a template anyone uses to help them out? Thanks again!
I recently have been testing a list that cuts a discard spell and the two Pyrite spellbomb for three Sun Droplet main. Theoretically, the AEther Grid should pick up the slack of the missing spellbomb, and the droplets should help with matches like Burn. As I've been testing though, I notice that I've been losing some games because I can't empty my hand fast enough with the Sun Droplets, and die a turn too soon. Has anyone else experienced this problem or anything similar?
Also, to add to @thnkr's statement, Pyrite Spellbomb is a very nice, recurrable safety net in a lot of matchups. For example, agains't a CoCo opponent, I could use it to stall a little on the ground, or hold it back to tag a Kataki if they go to cast it, killing it before our upkeep. Another example, is that because of the ability to recur it, you can use it to continuously (and easily) take out creatures that come under the Bridge. Birds of Paradise, Noble Hierarchs, Signal Pests, and Ornithopters all cower before the might of the Pyrite Spellbomb!
How are you liking the Thoughtseizes? That plus the 4th Gitaxian Probe seems like a lot of potential life loss. Do you ever end up losing by tight margins because of that? Or is it pretty negligible?
How is Nephalia Drownyard playing? The biggest deterrent for me is that it cost 3 to activate and doesn't intrinsically produce a beneficial color, which can be a little troublesome sometimes. That and it's general lack of immediate impact on the board has kept me up in the air about it. How has your testing been with it?
Why are you running Defense Grid in the sideboard? Are you having a lot of trouble with specific instant-speed stuff? I feel like most opponents don't mind firing off whatever they have at sorcery-speed in this matchup. Plus, with our robust package that lets us disrupt their hand and/or have perfect knowledge about it, is that extra insurance policy necessary?
I really like the flexibility of the Pyrite Spellbombs, but am just so hesitant about cutting them for the Ghirapur AEther Grid(s). How many games have you played where you were not able to empty your hand in a reasonable amount of time because of Ghirapur AEther Grid and/or Ensnaring Bridge cluttering up your hand? I know we have a lot of control over our draws, but I already go about 1-in-12~ish games where I have a hard time emptying my hand in a timely manner thanks to land flood, or runner Bridges, or other such nonsense.
The other thing about the Gitaxian Probes, and I know I'll get beat up for saying this, but the extra velocity and peeling the top card comes up in the early game too. While it may sound like it helps justify loose keeps, I'm far more likely to keep a one-lander with a Probe and a Lantern because it can help me find that second land with a lot more regularity. Maybe that's a big corner case, but this deck is a big pile of corner cases assembled into a cruel contraption.
I've been enjoying the Groves so far, and plan on continuing to use them. If the Grid performs better than Spellbombs in testing, I'll for sure roll with it instead. Although, in defense of the Pyrite Spellbomb as a kill condition thing, this is VERY rare and only happens maybe 1-in-8 games, if that. At least that's what my notes tell me about my games.
I understand the disruption point, but a lot of times my opponents just don't have too many cards I ultimately care about. I think the biggest offenders that come to mind are cards like Tasigur or Karn (in the case of opting for Thoughtseize) are the trouble spots, but moreso when there are no Pithing Needles present. I do also feel that in the matchups like Jund and Junk, the Welding Jars are the all-stars in the matchup. I think it's a bit cute and/or hard to cast, but I saw that someone was playing Boros Charm further up to help mitigate the nastiness that is Creeping Corrosion and the occasional Oblivion Stone/Engineered Explosives. However, I'm of the opinion that you should be so knowledgeable about the opponent's outs that you probably don't need a reactive card like that, but more the targeted ones like the Welding Jar.
Quick question about the Jund matchups, do you favor taking out any hand disruption post-board? It seems far worse, especially since the majority of our sideboard cards are more reactive than proactive. I find them to sometimes just languish in my hand, or just be a really crappy draw in the later game. Jund and junk in mirror/attrition matchups will sideboard out these cards because they're such a terrible topdeck in the late game. Except the big difference is that while they're hoping to just draw more bombs, we're hoping for more lock pieces. It's not 100% the same, but I think it might be equitable enough to merit cutting down on the discard post-board.
I do really like the Quiet Disrepair, as it can get your into a more comfortable life range when you're semi-setup, or force them to target a crappier permanent you don't mind losing compared to another, with their artifact removal. I usually throw it down on my Mox Opal, your mileage may vary.
That's a great point about the post-board games and self-mill effects. I generally feel the tension involved, but haven't really been able to put my finger on the exact reasons until just now.
Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster. I'm looking for some advice going into the upcoming rPTQ in October. I know it's a long way away, but there are so many conversation pieces about this deck worth discussing. First off, here's the list:
Mainboard:
4 Codex Shredder
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Ghoulcaller's Bell
3 Spellskite
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle
3 Mox Opal
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
Sideboard:
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Welding Jar
2 Nature's Claim
2 Quiet Disrepair
2 Pyroclasm
4 Sun Droplet
Mainboard Questions:
My list is pretty stock, but I had some specific questions for everyone in here about certain card selections.
Firstly, I'm noticing nobody playing Grove of the Burnwillows over Copperline Gorge. Generally, at least in most games, the primary focus is milling, so them gaining life literally doesn't matter. In addition, having a Grove come in off the top to give you 5 mana to activate Codex Shredder immediately if needed is also a pretty big upside, although this specific upside doesn't always happen, it seems like Grove is a viable upgrade. The only exception to this is when we're forced to go for a Pyrite Spellbomb loop, which by the time we are at that option should conceivably have a 'hard' red source out that doesn't gain them life for cause us to take damage in addition to the extra mana required to activate Ruins (which must come from an Opal or a Glimmervoid). I opted to keep the Blackcleaves instead of replacing them with something like Sulfurous Springs because preserving our life total is of paramount concern.
I've been considering trying out Ghirapur AEther Grid, although I'm not sure I want another 3 drop running around, as emptying the hand can be quite a chore at times depending on what is drawn. The popular cut here would be a Surgical Extraction, which I feel is among the weaker cards in the mainboard as a two-of. Also, I notice a lot of lists trending towards a 6th discard option in the form of a Thoughtseize. How has this addition played for you folks who have tried it over a Gitaxian Probe or Surgical? I like keeping the probes a lot because if you need a card and have the Lantern, you can sandbag the probe and draw your key card on a critical turn.
I also see a lot of lists running a 1x Pyxis of Pandemonium instead of a Ghoulcaller's Bell. The self-mill on the bell is really nice, but is the singleton Pyxis a concession to Ancient Grudges and Emrakuls? Because finding that single one of seems a slight bit farfetched compared to anything else, although I guess it's easier to find than the singleton Surgical Extraction. What are your thoughts?
The Ghost Quarters have generally been underwhelming in my testing, although being able to occasionally cause Tron to misstep is the real upside to the card. Everywhere else it seems kinda weak because the Strip Mine/Shuffle dichotomy is always pretty ineffective. Combine that with no way for us to recur the Ghost Quarter, outside of playing a Life from the Loam (which was pretty underwhelming as a one-of in testing), and it seems overall rather 'meh'. I'm not sure that I could really replace it with anything better though, save maybe another Ice Bridge or something similar, but I'm sticking with the Ghost Quarters for now.
Sideboard Questions:
Also pretty stock on the sideboard, I like the Quiet Disrepair as a concession to burn and an occasionally crappier way to blow up a Stony Silence. Although lately I feel like only 3 cards that remove artifacts and enchantments are necessary, which would allow me to change the extra Quiet Disrepair to a more targeted burn hate card. I know the Droplets help a lot, but how do you feel about Sunbeam Spellbomb? I've seen it come up on here before, and I think it's the strongest option. Just for reference, other 'hate' cards I can think of are Ajani's Mantra, Sanctimony, Circle of Protection: Red. The only caveat here is the required access to white mana. I feel like these cards would be a lot better if our access to white mana wasn't tied up in 7 cards (though it's more like 5 because of Mox Opal's Legendary status). It just seems risky when you need every chunk of hate as fast as possible against the hyper-aggressive burn decks. What is your favored hate? Looking at the potential drawbacks, Quiet Disrepair still seems like the most hardy piece simply because of how easy it is to cast in a timely manner.
I've also been thinking about squeezing another Welding Jar in there somewhere to help with the Jund matchup, but am not sure where to cut. The Ancient Grudge seems like a fair cut, but my testing notes show a distinct lack of me playing against Affinity. Is this what it's true intent is in the sideboard? The only other games I bring it in for are Tron, and a lot of games are completely winnable without it.
Do you guys bring in Pyroclasm versus mono-red? I feel like bringing it in dilutes the deck a bit, but it does kill pretty much all of their crap. Thoughts?
Lastly, I've seen a lot of Bow of Nylea kicking around, but I am never sure what to bring it in against. It just seems slow at what it does, and a lot of times against the decks where the lifegain is relevant, I'm also hurrying to empty my hand to activate Bridge and the Bow stands in the way. Also, the putting 4 cards back on the bottom is helpful, but seldom relevant, as there are a myriad of other ways to play around/win a game without this effect. What do you guys normally bring in Bow against, and how effective is it versus other cards that do similar things?
Thanks again for reading all of this, and contributing to make the most kickass, skill intenstive, and fun (for us) deck in Modern!
So is it possible that we don't need a Library, Top, or Scroll Rack of anything like that? I would love to have another Stage, Canopy, or Thicket, but I am hesitant to make a cut of cards like that because my testing has not been able to test those cards in action as much as I'd like. Though I think you're probably right because the few times I've had those cards in play, they are generally entirely ineffective or unnecessary.
What do you guys think of Sensei's Divining Top in Control Lands over Library? Sure it uses mana, but it lets you see 3, and if don't like them you can get rid of them. Furthermore, it can save a Loam from Surgical or DRS. Library can't do that, and a lot of games Library ends up eating Abrupt Decay before you get a use. I haven't tested Top yet but am highly curious and think it could be a great 1 of. Has anyone else played with it before?
I live in Okinawa. It's a very warped metagame here, including mainland from what the Japanese players have told me here. I think any of those cards is acceptable, and perhaps Cursed Totem is the best choice. Honestly, I don't really feel the deck NEEDS the help with the other matchups, but it is really just added value. MUD is a real thing here, as on this tiny island there are 6 MUD decks in a metagame of maybe 40 people. I'm told from the Japanese players to expect a lot of MUD, Miracles, and S&S or Omni-Tell. Do you live in Japan/will you be going to the event?
On another note, do any of you have experience with Scroll Rack? It seems like it could be absolutely absurd in finding key/business cards, especially with a Loam engine online. Turns those "Draw 3 cards" into way more options. Does anyone thing it might be better or different than Sylvan Library?
I have been testing a lot of versions of lands over the last 4 months in preparation for GP Kyoto. I've only recently settled on control lands because of its flexibility. Sideboarding is my biggest weak spot because there are so many different available cards and angles available in this strategy,hence the questions. The expected meta, from my experience in Japan has a lot of Miracles and MUD, and I want to be prepared. Are there any other spicy choices ya'll have been working with? I've been trying Notion Thief and Thrun in the side, it never seem to draw them to assess their value. Thanks for the assistance with the deck. Also, I've been trying out Worm Harvest and it's been pretty silly.
Does anyone have any experience with the Smokestack/Raven's Crime/Wurm Harvest/Ensnaring Bridge style version that can offer some feedback on it's matchups versus the format? I can imagine Smokestack is very good against decks like Miracles, but I'm not sure about others.
Meddling Mage doesn't seem so great, since a lot of times they have easy access to answers/hate bears. I have had Chalice against burn and it's not particularly great. It's good versus Miracles, but a lot of times an EE+Academy Ruins will get the job done just as well. I've been considering another Krosan Grip since it's just clutch in Omni-Tell as well. I don't think discard is the right way to go because you have no consistency. The only discard card that even makes sense is Raven's Crime, but only with Urborg. The Extirpate is there for lands. Some matchups like the Stoneblade and Delver matchups you can just rip all of the Volcanics, etc... out of their deck. Plus, it's an extra card against combo decks that attacks from another angle. Do you think maybe another Dark Depths is worth it? I see a lot of RG lists running an extra to focus more on the combo game two, which I suppose is a potential game plan against combo matchups, just be faster. Just not so great versus Miracles, because Swords.
Goblin Matron
Cursecatcher
Toxic Deluge
Gamble
Baleful Strix
WILL NOT Be Reprinted:
Scalding Tarn
Deathrite Shaman
Thoughtseize
Pithing Needle
Stoneforge Mystic
Lastly, does anyone have specific sideboard guides/advice for writing them? I want to be prepared for the upcoming rPTQ and have a fully typed up guide. Is there a template anyone uses to help them out? Thanks again!
How is Nephalia Drownyard playing? The biggest deterrent for me is that it cost 3 to activate and doesn't intrinsically produce a beneficial color, which can be a little troublesome sometimes. That and it's general lack of immediate impact on the board has kept me up in the air about it. How has your testing been with it?
Why are you running Defense Grid in the sideboard? Are you having a lot of trouble with specific instant-speed stuff? I feel like most opponents don't mind firing off whatever they have at sorcery-speed in this matchup. Plus, with our robust package that lets us disrupt their hand and/or have perfect knowledge about it, is that extra insurance policy necessary?
The other thing about the Gitaxian Probes, and I know I'll get beat up for saying this, but the extra velocity and peeling the top card comes up in the early game too. While it may sound like it helps justify loose keeps, I'm far more likely to keep a one-lander with a Probe and a Lantern because it can help me find that second land with a lot more regularity. Maybe that's a big corner case, but this deck is a big pile of corner cases assembled into a cruel contraption.
I've been enjoying the Groves so far, and plan on continuing to use them. If the Grid performs better than Spellbombs in testing, I'll for sure roll with it instead. Although, in defense of the Pyrite Spellbomb as a kill condition thing, this is VERY rare and only happens maybe 1-in-8 games, if that. At least that's what my notes tell me about my games.
I understand the disruption point, but a lot of times my opponents just don't have too many cards I ultimately care about. I think the biggest offenders that come to mind are cards like Tasigur or Karn (in the case of opting for Thoughtseize) are the trouble spots, but moreso when there are no Pithing Needles present. I do also feel that in the matchups like Jund and Junk, the Welding Jars are the all-stars in the matchup. I think it's a bit cute and/or hard to cast, but I saw that someone was playing Boros Charm further up to help mitigate the nastiness that is Creeping Corrosion and the occasional Oblivion Stone/Engineered Explosives. However, I'm of the opinion that you should be so knowledgeable about the opponent's outs that you probably don't need a reactive card like that, but more the targeted ones like the Welding Jar.
Quick question about the Jund matchups, do you favor taking out any hand disruption post-board? It seems far worse, especially since the majority of our sideboard cards are more reactive than proactive. I find them to sometimes just languish in my hand, or just be a really crappy draw in the later game. Jund and junk in mirror/attrition matchups will sideboard out these cards because they're such a terrible topdeck in the late game. Except the big difference is that while they're hoping to just draw more bombs, we're hoping for more lock pieces. It's not 100% the same, but I think it might be equitable enough to merit cutting down on the discard post-board.
I do really like the Quiet Disrepair, as it can get your into a more comfortable life range when you're semi-setup, or force them to target a crappier permanent you don't mind losing compared to another, with their artifact removal. I usually throw it down on my Mox Opal, your mileage may vary.
That's a great point about the post-board games and self-mill effects. I generally feel the tension involved, but haven't really been able to put my finger on the exact reasons until just now.
Mainboard:
4 Codex Shredder
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Ghoulcaller's Bell
3 Spellskite
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle
3 Mox Opal
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Llanowar Wastes
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
Sideboard:
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Welding Jar
2 Nature's Claim
2 Quiet Disrepair
2 Pyroclasm
4 Sun Droplet
Mainboard Questions:
My list is pretty stock, but I had some specific questions for everyone in here about certain card selections.
Firstly, I'm noticing nobody playing Grove of the Burnwillows over Copperline Gorge. Generally, at least in most games, the primary focus is milling, so them gaining life literally doesn't matter. In addition, having a Grove come in off the top to give you 5 mana to activate Codex Shredder immediately if needed is also a pretty big upside, although this specific upside doesn't always happen, it seems like Grove is a viable upgrade. The only exception to this is when we're forced to go for a Pyrite Spellbomb loop, which by the time we are at that option should conceivably have a 'hard' red source out that doesn't gain them life for cause us to take damage in addition to the extra mana required to activate Ruins (which must come from an Opal or a Glimmervoid). I opted to keep the Blackcleaves instead of replacing them with something like Sulfurous Springs because preserving our life total is of paramount concern.
I've been considering trying out Ghirapur AEther Grid, although I'm not sure I want another 3 drop running around, as emptying the hand can be quite a chore at times depending on what is drawn. The popular cut here would be a Surgical Extraction, which I feel is among the weaker cards in the mainboard as a two-of. Also, I notice a lot of lists trending towards a 6th discard option in the form of a Thoughtseize. How has this addition played for you folks who have tried it over a Gitaxian Probe or Surgical? I like keeping the probes a lot because if you need a card and have the Lantern, you can sandbag the probe and draw your key card on a critical turn.
I also see a lot of lists running a 1x Pyxis of Pandemonium instead of a Ghoulcaller's Bell. The self-mill on the bell is really nice, but is the singleton Pyxis a concession to Ancient Grudges and Emrakuls? Because finding that single one of seems a slight bit farfetched compared to anything else, although I guess it's easier to find than the singleton Surgical Extraction. What are your thoughts?
The Ghost Quarters have generally been underwhelming in my testing, although being able to occasionally cause Tron to misstep is the real upside to the card. Everywhere else it seems kinda weak because the Strip Mine/Shuffle dichotomy is always pretty ineffective. Combine that with no way for us to recur the Ghost Quarter, outside of playing a Life from the Loam (which was pretty underwhelming as a one-of in testing), and it seems overall rather 'meh'. I'm not sure that I could really replace it with anything better though, save maybe another Ice Bridge or something similar, but I'm sticking with the Ghost Quarters for now.
Sideboard Questions:
Also pretty stock on the sideboard, I like the Quiet Disrepair as a concession to burn and an occasionally crappier way to blow up a Stony Silence. Although lately I feel like only 3 cards that remove artifacts and enchantments are necessary, which would allow me to change the extra Quiet Disrepair to a more targeted burn hate card. I know the Droplets help a lot, but how do you feel about Sunbeam Spellbomb? I've seen it come up on here before, and I think it's the strongest option. Just for reference, other 'hate' cards I can think of are Ajani's Mantra, Sanctimony, Circle of Protection: Red. The only caveat here is the required access to white mana. I feel like these cards would be a lot better if our access to white mana wasn't tied up in 7 cards (though it's more like 5 because of Mox Opal's Legendary status). It just seems risky when you need every chunk of hate as fast as possible against the hyper-aggressive burn decks. What is your favored hate? Looking at the potential drawbacks, Quiet Disrepair still seems like the most hardy piece simply because of how easy it is to cast in a timely manner.
I've also been thinking about squeezing another Welding Jar in there somewhere to help with the Jund matchup, but am not sure where to cut. The Ancient Grudge seems like a fair cut, but my testing notes show a distinct lack of me playing against Affinity. Is this what it's true intent is in the sideboard? The only other games I bring it in for are Tron, and a lot of games are completely winnable without it.
Do you guys bring in Pyroclasm versus mono-red? I feel like bringing it in dilutes the deck a bit, but it does kill pretty much all of their crap. Thoughts?
Lastly, I've seen a lot of Bow of Nylea kicking around, but I am never sure what to bring it in against. It just seems slow at what it does, and a lot of times against the decks where the lifegain is relevant, I'm also hurrying to empty my hand to activate Bridge and the Bow stands in the way. Also, the putting 4 cards back on the bottom is helpful, but seldom relevant, as there are a myriad of other ways to play around/win a game without this effect. What do you guys normally bring in Bow against, and how effective is it versus other cards that do similar things?
Thanks again for reading all of this, and contributing to make the most kickass, skill intenstive, and fun (for us) deck in Modern!
On another note, do any of you have experience with Scroll Rack? It seems like it could be absolutely absurd in finding key/business cards, especially with a Loam engine online. Turns those "Draw 3 cards" into way more options. Does anyone thing it might be better or different than Sylvan Library?