Hello. Wagic was updated today to version 0.9.1.
It now supports more than 5000 cards (which, I believe, now makes Wagic the MTG simulation against an AI opponent with the highest number of cards).
On top of that we were recently joined by a team of talented designers and developers, who gave the game a very professional look (I hope pictures are allowed, please remove them if that's not the case).
This is open source, cross platform(Windows/Linux/PSP) and we are looking for all the help we can get, do not hesitate to contact me
May I suggest my own game, Wagic, as a very good reason to get a PSP rather than any other portable device?
It is so far the only game that allows you to play MTG against an AI on a portable device...and it's only on the PSP :D.
Other than that, compared to the DS, I'd say the screen is the best reason, if you're into movies it's great.
The mp3 player is good enough, too. Probably not as good as an iPod, but better than the (lack of) mp3 player on the DS.
Of course a PSP gets really interesting once you get a Custom firmware on it. I personally use plugins a lot, for example to listen to my own mp3s while playing.
You think we could sell the app bare and have the user download their decks so they can use the real stuff?
I don't know the US laws enough to answer that question. Wagic uses the rules of Magic the Gathering (they are embedded in the code and would be difficult to remove), which I believe are protected by a patent in the U.S (not in the rest of the world).
I'd rather have it free to avoid troubles (is it even possible on an iPhone?).
No, actually, let's be honest, I'd be more than happy to get money for that game, but I think the legal risk is too high.
If there is a way to code "homebrews" for the iPhone without going through the Apple store, I think that's how it should be made in the first place. When/if it actually runs, we can then discuss the whole legal troubles. This would involve contacting WoTC, and I believe they would anser "NO" straight away.
But if you, or other iPhone devs are ready to go through all the trouble of porting the app, knowing that it might never end up on the Apple store, then let's do this.
Again, (sorry for such a long post), I'm absolutely in favor of this ending up on the Apple store, on condition that it is done with WOTC's agreement. If this is done without their agreement, it can still be done but I don't want to be involved with it.
The source code itself is in the BSD license, which means you don't need my agreement to do whatever you want with it. I would appreciate if I'm kept in the loop of whatever happens though
At least, if the plan is to release it on the Apple store without contacting WOTC first, I think the SVN for both apps should be separate, and the name changed to avoid both the iPhone version and the PSP version to fall at the same time: I already got a Cease and desist letter from Wizards once this year, I wouldn't like to disturb their lawyers once more
I was looking around here, I'm the dev for the sylvan archives. If you're interested in making a port, I might be able to help.
This sounds like a great idea! However I would need more than "help" for such a huge project. I would need someone to be in charge of the port and I would be the one providing the help.
Right now the main issue is the GUI since it relies heavily on the size of the PSP screen (480x272). Luckily the iPhone screen is more or less 16/9 too so something could be done I guess.
Another issue is that Wagic is coded in C++, and I'm not sure it will be easy to port to Objective C. However it runs on Linux and Windows through openGL too, and I once got a report of someone running it on a mac with small modifications (but never got access to his/her sources)
Anyways the code's open source, if you know someone who would be motivated to start a port I'd be more than happy to help, and improve the base code for more flexibility. The whole rendering process is in a dedicated lib (JGE) where I believe most of the work would need to be done.
and a few screenshots that might give motivation to some devs out there... (copyrighted content is blurred in the pictures below, and not distributed with the game):
The game icons, backgrounds, cards, etc... can be completely modded to look like "real" stuff (In the first versions of the game, the menu was using the actual mana symbols, but I got into trouble with some Wizards on a coast...so I switched to kanji symbols instead. But I know that some modded versions can be found out there with the initial content)
If this thread can help me getting more devs for the game, that'd be great.
DalkonCledwin, I'm sorry for going off topic again, I should create my own thread
no with the booster thing it happens when i buy tenth ed mainly which is a official set
Very weird, I'll have a look! (Never happened to me, I swear, and I must say I play a lot!)
Whats with the AI playing spark elemental and not attacking???
Also whats with it lightning bolting a creature when i am on three life???
These things seem completely natural for us humans, but it is not necessarily the case for the machine.
Due to various flaws in my initial design, the AI has no clue that Spark Elemental will be destroyed at the end of the turn.
Same kind of issue with the lightning bolt, the AI doesn't know how much damage it does, although this issue should be eventually fixed.
I'm not using any minmax algorithm in Wagic, so it is not easy to give it a clear strategy. But true, when the AI has an opportunity to kill you with one card, it should do it.
If you are interested in all the ins and outs of AI programming, we have a whole forum dedicated to rules enforcement and AI over at slightlymagic (not sure I can give the link here ?). Lots of cool discussions.
Thanks for the feedback
Not all of these problems can be solved, although we have a forum discussing the bugs where people usually report that.
I always kill the Ai using Ankh of Mishra when it is on 2 life
Very true. The AI has no real idea what the cards do and does not take cards such as Ankh of Mishra into account
It doesnt take in to account life totals when deciding moves
It actually does, but not always in the most clever way.
The AI in Wagic will always be a bit "under" what people expect. There are technical reasons for this. We can't use a minmax algorithm because of the computing limitations of the PSP, and we can't really use adhoc computations because of the high number of cards.
So, of course, it'll never beat playing against a friend, but I'll try to improve it though.
I accept that the coding is needed but you also get the problem of the program crashing if you have too many cards in the database
If you talk about the 4000 cards limit, it will be solved in next release. If you talk about something else, to my knowledge it's been solved, and the only people experiencing such issues are people using sets not included in the official release.
There is also the problem of when you have lots of cards you buy a booster and get no cards in it or just the rares
First time I've heard of this one. It never happened to me or to anyone on our forums. Actually I remember someone mentioning it, and the problem was actually that he was using a set that was improperly formatted. Try to remove any extra sets you may have. Official sets are the ones described there: http://wololo.net/files/wagic/cards_wagic_060.html
Or see here if it might solve your problem: http://wololo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=318&start=13
Again, thanks for the feedback. I can't solve issues I don't know about, so if you find problems that are not mentioned here, do not hesitate to tell us on the Wagic forums.
It also lacks the ability for new cards due to the programming style used
I'm not entirely sure I understand this.
You can add new cards to Wagic with a simple text editor.
Obviously you can't add new abilities/rules without coding, but that's an obvious issue with any application that has rules enforcement...
If you can give me the name of an MTG program with an AI that allows you to add any card you want without extra coding, I'd be glad to hear about it
Edit: could you give me an example of a competitive deck? It is very true that the AI doesn't have any good strategy (you might want to look for "Deckbot" for that), so it plays better with aggressive decks, and this might not change in a while, unfortunately
Wagic allows you to play MTG against an AI on the PSP. I'm not sure this is the kind of stuff you are looking for ?
Other than that, I know there is a life counter out there for the PSP, just google for it.
It now supports more than 5000 cards (which, I believe, now makes Wagic the MTG simulation against an AI opponent with the highest number of cards).
On top of that we were recently joined by a team of talented designers and developers, who gave the game a very professional look (I hope pictures are allowed, please remove them if that's not the case).
This is open source, cross platform(Windows/Linux/PSP) and we are looking for all the help we can get, do not hesitate to contact me
It is so far the only game that allows you to play MTG against an AI on a portable device...and it's only on the PSP :D.
Other than that, compared to the DS, I'd say the screen is the best reason, if you're into movies it's great.
The mp3 player is good enough, too. Probably not as good as an iPod, but better than the (lack of) mp3 player on the DS.
Of course a PSP gets really interesting once you get a Custom firmware on it. I personally use plugins a lot, for example to listen to my own mp3s while playing.
Oh well, I guess the port of my game to the iPhone is not gonna happen soon, then
We can chat by email if you prefer
I don't know the US laws enough to answer that question. Wagic uses the rules of Magic the Gathering (they are embedded in the code and would be difficult to remove), which I believe are protected by a patent in the U.S (not in the rest of the world).
I'd rather have it free to avoid troubles (is it even possible on an iPhone?).
No, actually, let's be honest, I'd be more than happy to get money for that game, but I think the legal risk is too high.
If there is a way to code "homebrews" for the iPhone without going through the Apple store, I think that's how it should be made in the first place. When/if it actually runs, we can then discuss the whole legal troubles. This would involve contacting WoTC, and I believe they would anser "NO" straight away.
But if you, or other iPhone devs are ready to go through all the trouble of porting the app, knowing that it might never end up on the Apple store, then let's do this.
Again, (sorry for such a long post), I'm absolutely in favor of this ending up on the Apple store, on condition that it is done with WOTC's agreement. If this is done without their agreement, it can still be done but I don't want to be involved with it.
The source code itself is in the BSD license, which means you don't need my agreement to do whatever you want with it. I would appreciate if I'm kept in the loop of whatever happens though
At least, if the plan is to release it on the Apple store without contacting WOTC first, I think the SVN for both apps should be separate, and the name changed to avoid both the iPhone version and the PSP version to fall at the same time: I already got a Cease and desist letter from Wizards once this year, I wouldn't like to disturb their lawyers once more
This sounds like a great idea! However I would need more than "help" for such a huge project. I would need someone to be in charge of the port and I would be the one providing the help.
Right now the main issue is the GUI since it relies heavily on the size of the PSP screen (480x272). Luckily the iPhone screen is more or less 16/9 too so something could be done I guess.
Another issue is that Wagic is coded in C++, and I'm not sure it will be easy to port to Objective C. However it runs on Linux and Windows through openGL too, and I once got a report of someone running it on a mac with small modifications (but never got access to his/her sources)
Anyways the code's open source, if you know someone who would be motivated to start a port I'd be more than happy to help, and improve the base code for more flexibility. The whole rendering process is in a dedicated lib (JGE) where I believe most of the work would need to be done.
here are the sources: http://code.google.com/p/wagic
and a few screenshots that might give motivation to some devs out there... (copyrighted content is blurred in the pictures below, and not distributed with the game):
The game icons, backgrounds, cards, etc... can be completely modded to look like "real" stuff (In the first versions of the game, the menu was using the actual mana symbols, but I got into trouble with some Wizards on a coast...so I switched to kanji symbols instead. But I know that some modded versions can be found out there with the initial content)
If this thread can help me getting more devs for the game, that'd be great.
DalkonCledwin, I'm sorry for going off topic again, I should create my own thread
I don't have a mac, I don't have an iPhone, so working on a port would be difficult unfortunately.
I think processing power wouldn't be an issue.
Apple and WotC would be, though
Oh, and despite the AI being (quite) stupid in Wagic, it is still hard to beat
There's a life counter, at least on the PSP:
http://forums.qj.net/psp-development-forum/147026-release-magic-life-counter.html
Very weird, I'll have a look! (Never happened to me, I swear, and I must say I play a lot!)
These things seem completely natural for us humans, but it is not necessarily the case for the machine.
Due to various flaws in my initial design, the AI has no clue that Spark Elemental will be destroyed at the end of the turn.
Same kind of issue with the lightning bolt, the AI doesn't know how much damage it does, although this issue should be eventually fixed.
I'm not using any minmax algorithm in Wagic, so it is not easy to give it a clear strategy. But true, when the AI has an opportunity to kill you with one card, it should do it.
If you are interested in all the ins and outs of AI programming, we have a whole forum dedicated to rules enforcement and AI over at slightlymagic (not sure I can give the link here ?). Lots of cool discussions.
Not all of these problems can be solved, although we have a forum discussing the bugs where people usually report that.
Very true. The AI has no real idea what the cards do and does not take cards such as Ankh of Mishra into account
It actually does, but not always in the most clever way.
The AI in Wagic will always be a bit "under" what people expect. There are technical reasons for this. We can't use a minmax algorithm because of the computing limitations of the PSP, and we can't really use adhoc computations because of the high number of cards.
So, of course, it'll never beat playing against a friend, but I'll try to improve it though.
If you talk about the 4000 cards limit, it will be solved in next release. If you talk about something else, to my knowledge it's been solved, and the only people experiencing such issues are people using sets not included in the official release.
First time I've heard of this one. It never happened to me or to anyone on our forums. Actually I remember someone mentioning it, and the problem was actually that he was using a set that was improperly formatted. Try to remove any extra sets you may have. Official sets are the ones described there: http://wololo.net/files/wagic/cards_wagic_060.html
Or see here if it might solve your problem: http://wololo.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=318&start=13
Again, thanks for the feedback. I can't solve issues I don't know about, so if you find problems that are not mentioned here, do not hesitate to tell us on the Wagic forums.
I'm not entirely sure I understand this.
You can add new cards to Wagic with a simple text editor.
Obviously you can't add new abilities/rules without coding, but that's an obvious issue with any application that has rules enforcement...
If you can give me the name of an MTG program with an AI that allows you to add any card you want without extra coding, I'd be glad to hear about it
Edit: could you give me an example of a competitive deck? It is very true that the AI doesn't have any good strategy (you might want to look for "Deckbot" for that), so it plays better with aggressive decks, and this might not change in a while, unfortunately
Other than that, I know there is a life counter out there for the PSP, just google for it.