I'm glad that the staff are working on something to continue the community - unfortunately I don't have a phpBB2 forum hosted on a random friend's server to pull out of my pocket, this time

Quote from The RiddlerI cannot see the Angel art being a Threaten-like spell, because whatever is threatening the angel into being evil, somehow also gave the angel the dark crown and glowing eyes, and whoever is controlling it isn't even present in the picture. Like the original art, I'd expect the person(s) threatening the victim to actually be present. I would also expect the background to be more in line with the soldier she's beating than the bloody palette selected (If the background were blue or white for example, she'd stick out showing something isn't right, for example).
Judging by the the glow, she's either been possessed by an evil force or she's just evil to begin with. The guy has clearly been beaten, he looks worn down and like he's struggling to get away - just look at his posture. The angle of his legs suggest he's nearly crawling.
While she wouldn't be the typical Fallen Angel what with lacking the black wings, the art tries too hard to make her look evil for it to be used on something like Threaten, IMO. I would have to doubt it's any form of control Magic, because while red might cause rage, she's clearly being driven by magic or has been possessed. The only other color possibility would be blue and blue wouldn't have an effect like that on a creature. Black doesn't do control Magic.
Re: the Sphinx: Oh god my eyes.
Quote from Ash316It would be funny then if this turned out to be Ritual of the Machine.;) I don't think it is, but there have been control cards in black. It's just doesn't go along with what they would want to do with a Core set. But as others have said, because of the background it does look more like a Red card. I just think it will be Threaten.
Moving forward, all activity and updates on this Primer will be over on MTG Nexus. I'll be reading back through the pages of discussion on this thread and intend on making a "FAQ/Previous Discussion" section to summarize a lot of what we've discussed here over the years, though that may take some time. You can find the new thread here:
https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=267
I'll also be posting brand new Primers, and just posted one for Elenda, the Dusk Rose
https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=477
Jonas and tarotplz have already found their way over there to the thread. I hope I'll see others join, as well! Thank you to everyone for your contributions in the thread here over all of this time! I have some interesting plans for the future of the Ayli Primer over on Nexus
I appreciate healthy debate and discussion over the format. BUT, it gets a bit ridiculous seeing months and months of discussion of the same handful of vocal people coming back and posting new anecdotal stories to try to crusade to make their case when the entire rest of the format has settled fine. Especially considering this card has been out in the wild for... *looks up the release date of Aether Revolt* ...almost 3 years, now. Because that's not enough, the argument is now "It's getting worse! New cards are being printed!" ...And? How many threads pop up here every set with a kneejerk reaction about the supposed power level of a card. Simic Ascendancy anyone? Narset, Parter of Veils? Razaketh, the Foulblooded? Please. Give the sensationalism a rest.
Here's my list and my thoughts on it, at the moment:
1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
Planeswalker
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Karn Liberated
1 Sorin Markov
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Ugin, the Ineffable
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Enchantment
1 Phyrexian Scriptures
1 Nest of Scarabs
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Crumbling Ashes
1 Call to the Grave
1 Necromancy
1 Bitterblossom
1 Bridge from Below
1 Dreadhorde Invasion
Creature
1 Pitiless Plunderer
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Archfiend of Ifnir
1 Sifter of Skulls
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Smothering Abomination
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
1 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Burnished Hart
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Bloodghast
1 Necroskitter
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Horobi, Death's Wail
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Mindcrank
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mirage Mirror
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Thought Vessel
1 Sol Ring
1 Mind Stone
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Caged Sun
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mana Vault
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Lightning Greaves
Land
1 Field of Ruin
1 Buried Ruin
1 Maze of Ith
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Cabal Stronghold
1 Emergence Zone
1 Karn's Bastion
22 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Decree of Pain
1 Torment of Hailfire
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Dark Deal
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Exsanguinate
1 Final Parting
1 Command the Dreadhorde
1 Dead of Winter
Instant
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Dark Ritual
1 Liliana's Triumph
Anyway, that's about it for my testing with the deck so far. I know my build is quite different at the moment, though I aim for a similar path once I can acquire the appropriate cards
This response is so ironic it could be in Napoleon Dynamite 2. Jivantuna is spot on and the response actually proves his point. I'm dying.
Tarotplz hits the nail on the head. Kaya's Guile is pretty neat, but it doesn't do anything that other options can't do a lot better that are attached to bodies to reanimate.
Understood 😊 I was just curious - wasn't judging by any means! I'm actually interested in this because I already have so many "get easy value" competitive decks (Windgrace, Maelstrom Wanderer, Jhoira) and was brainstorming (fyi that autocorrected to barnstorming and it's not even wrong) how to do Niv-Mizzet that wasn't just doing Superfriends as a copout or another straight play-all-this-goodstuff-value.dec. so the Astral Genssis build you have here has really piqued my interest 😊
Very much interested to see how this version develops!
Vindicate not being an Instant is a good point, and you're quite correct in the context of Cloudstone Curio and other similar combo pieces. But still, blowing up utility lands and the rest of the <3CC targets is really important in my meta. It may well be a meta call for a lot of people. But overall, I do definitely prefer Vindicate. Anguished Unmaking and Utter End can't target lands which means waiting on Ashen Rider or Archon of Justice to handle them.
I agree on that respect. I'm not convinced on running it, but it was one of the more interesting cards for Ayli to talk about. I do like that it is Instant speed and can be done without mana open. There's a lot of decks out there that can build a board state out of nowhere, slam down Craterhoof Behemoth and swing out of nowhere. Unfortunately other than False Prophet most of our board wipes can't handle that despite doing our best to keep boards down. So, it's got some potential in that regard, I think
I can only speak for my build, but at least personally, I sacrifice enough to Ayli or drain with Gray Merchant of Asphodel to off set a lot of the life loss I incur most games (just not enough to run something like Bolas's Citadel), so I don't think it'll be too bad
I think this might be a meta thing, as well! Truthfully more people in my play groups should be blowing up Angelic Renewal, but I think a lot gave up because they know it'll just hit the battlefield again as soon as I get Sun Titan out there
Although my feelings on Despark differ, I added a section for it above
I do very much like Generous Gift! I'm also very interested in Force of Despair and Silent Clearing
I would never play Despark over Utter End, Anguished Unmaking or Vindicate. I don't like the condition that the target must have a 4CMC or greater on Despark. It's easy to be tricked into thinking it's a good card because it only costs WB, but it's far too inconsistent for my tastes. Outside of a tokens build, Orzhov is not a color combination that works fast. That is why I don't mind the 4CMC for Utter End. Orzhov is a slow roll, building up incremental value until it snowballs into an engine that is too hard to stop. I'd rather utter end Scavenging Ooze and stop my graveyard from being eaten, or Eternal Witness to stop recursion shenanigans, than sit with a 2CMC card in my hand that can't hit half the potential problems on the board.
I'll gladly pay 1 more than I do for a Vindicate to exile something, because there is so much recursion in the format that exiling threats is one of the best things you can do. But those threats aren't always 4CMC and above. Sometimes they're Cloudstone Curios, or Ashnod's Altars and other 2-3 mana sac outlets or engines that you don't want them to be able to get back. I run both Anguished Unmaking and Utter End and Vindicate because 1.) depending on other people having good threat assessment is a liability, and 2.) the ability to surgically remove basically any target is an effect worth some redundancy. I'd still have Vindicate over this as a way to easily take out Maze of Ith, Volrath's Stronghold, Gavony Township, Gaea's Cradle, Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun etc. on top of any other target without Indestructible that it can hit. Costing 1-2 mana less than the existing options does not make it worth it, when it excludes so many important targets.
Angel of Despair aside, there is Archon of Justice, Return to Dust, False Prophet, Ashen Rider, Mangara of Corondor/Angel of Serenity/Fiend Hunter + sac outlets. Orzhov doesn't have a lack of ways to permanently flat out exile various things of the entire spectrum of CMC. Despark is frankly outclassed and overrated.
I don't even get started on those running Profane Procession.
Edit: I'll also clarify I'm not considering cEDH because cEDH isn't how the vast majority of people play Commander, and it's not like Ayli is a cEDH-worthy Commander. So, I'm not sure how what place cEDH discussion has here.