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  • posted a message on Oathbreaker (60 card, Planeswalkers as Commanders)
    I kind of want to build a deck for this with Jace, the Mind Sculptor+Tunnel Vision or Narset, Parter of Veils+Windfall in my Command Zones to prove the absurdity of having a "signature spell" in the Command Zone alongside Planeswalker as a Commander. It's really unfortunate that The Command Zone podcast gave this a large boost in attention, because it's frankly a silly idea for a format. Really tired of hearing about these riffs on Commander every few months, the subsequent begging of content creators and everyone to pay it attention and the slowly dying bandwagon that results afterwards.
    Posted in: Variant Commander
  • posted a message on Narset, Parter of Veils
    She is fine, for the reasons stated. Plenty of cards exist that have abilities similar to Leovold, and they aren't Leovold. Commander is not Vintage, Legacy or Modern.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Will & Rowan Kenrith - Sparks of Ice and Fire (Superfriends)
    Great thread here, darrenhabib! Smile I've been desperately trying to find a deck to fit the twins into, but its been very hard to find a place where they fit well. I've never been a fan of the more popular Superfriend jam-everything-and-a-Doubling-Season decks, but this looks like a lot fun and I think I may just kick around building a similar list!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Dralnu, Lich Lord - Control & Reanimation
    Woop. Apologies for missing your more-recently-active thread for Dralnu! Figured I could post/continue our discussion over here for War of the Spark since you're actively updating, still!

    I haven’t seen Jenn around for a little while, but I know she said life was getting pretty busy.

    For my build, I’m super psyched to grab a copy of God-Eternal Kefnet and Narset’s Reversal. Both are super solid auto adds here.

    Bolas’s Citadel I could see a place for as a storm finisher. It’s undoubtedly a strong card. I’m not sure if I’ll run a copy here myself, but I do try to stay a little shy of straight combo. Narset, partner of veils I like as a semi-leovold draw restriction. The amount of wheeling I do is not insignificant, so it’d make thing a lot more unilateral.

    Liliana, Dreadhorde General I like, but I’m not sure if I like it here. The static ability will go wanting g a lot for what’s a fairly creature light build, so any value you get from her will come from her abilities. Which are strong, but for 4BB I question if it’s worth it.

    Command the Dreadhorde I really like, and I’d look to fit a copy in here. Likewise with Finale of Eternity - you need to decathlon cast it to get enough value from it, but I can see that happening here fairly easily.

    Deliver unto Evil doesn’t seem strong enough to me. Without a Bolas walker, and as a one time affair, it just needs to do a little more.

    As for other new releases, I like Spark Double, but I’m not sure it’s better here than Clever Impersonator. Bond of Revival has the haste that Zombify and Rise from the Grave have always missed. Massacre Girl could be devastating, but I’m not sure it fits here well enough. All in all, there’s a lot of goodies from this set for Dralnu, and I think you’ve picked out most of the real gems.

    I tend to agree with your assessments on the cards mentioned. It's going to be interesting finding a spot for Command the Dreadhorde and Finale of Eternity.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Dralnu, Two Parts Control, One Part Reanimator
    It's been a while since there's been any activity here, but I'm building Dralnu and this had the most recent discussion back in March. War of the Spark has provided some crazy good Dimir cards to try out for control.

    I'm building a similar list, but I intend to try:

    God-Eternal Kefnet
    Narset, Parter of Veils
    Ashiok, Dream Render
    Blast Zone

    Debating on:

    Narset's Reversal
    Bolas's Citadel
    Command the Dreadhorde
    Deliver Unto Evil
    Finale of Eternity
    Liliana, Dreadhorde General

    I'm curious what y'all think is worth putting in. Ashiok and Narset are powerful, even though they aren't an Instant or Sorcery. Bolas's Citadel is a ridiculously easy way for Control to stay on top of the game by using life as a resource. Finale of Eternity and Command the Dreadhorde are pretty powerful reanimation/removal spells. Deliver Unto Evil is a reverse Fact or Fiction. Liliana, Dreadhorde General seems like an amazing late game card for the deck.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on [Rules Tinkering] TEST: Sparked Commander
    Can we please stop beating this dead horse?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Food Chain
    I've only ever seen it played by people using cEDH decks. Never seen it outside of that handful of players at any of the stores I've gone to. Same way I think I've played someone using Flash Hulk maybe once since Protean Hulk was unbanned, but that was in a competitive group. With that in mind, I can't say I agree with Food Chain being banned or really even considered. It has a very specific purpose to a couple decks only usually played in competitive circles, outside of which it's generally not played. Ultimately, if anything, Food Chain is a play group power level issue that is easier to discuss with that player/group and comes with a certain expectation or conclusion. It's much different to the the Recurring Nightmare example, where that card could easily go in almost any Black deck and become ubiquitous for it's power level. In other words, Food Chain is confined to very specific decks, to very specific interactions. It's not how the general player base approaches the format.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Why is it so hard to get feedback on decklists?
    Well the nectdeck comment is just asinine. You don't have to netdeck to know good cards in the format, or look at EDHREC. It's always funny to me when people bring up the word "netdeck" because it's usually used in such a poor argument or way of thinking. Netdecking ultimately means finding optimal or good cards and that you're using them, because that's what "netdecks" are: Optimized decks that were came to as a consensus of common knowledge of what a good assembly of cards are for a deck. Every time someone "netdecks" it's a list of cards that were tested and proven. You don't even need the internet to do that if you have a decent amount of exposure or experience in a format to know what you're doing. So really people? Just drop the "netdeck" thing. It's ignorant. Especially in Commander.

    Quote from Ninja Bob »
    Quote from JqlGirl »
    When I was invited back to these forums, I looked forward to sharing my decklists with others here. However, after posting a couple and getting minimal responses, I'm wondering what the point is. I'm proud of my decklists and have spent a fair amount of time tuning these decks, so to take the effort to post it up in the multiplayer decklist forum and receive little to no feedback is disheartening. Are people here just not interested in other folks' decklists or what?

    I agree. I think half of my deck threads received zero responses and get buried tot he 2nd page in under 48 hours. I haven't posted that many. Maybe 10 deck lists over the past 6 years.

    If people are so much more interested in other deck lists that yours is getting buried to Page 2 within 48 hours, that would suggest there's a large difference in interest between your decks and the others that put you on Page 2. So there's either something lacking in the post content or people aren't interested for some reason or another. That's no fault of anyone else's. I'm also not saying it's your fault either, but for what you're claiming to happen there's a reason somewhere because all those other threads bumping you down are getting the feedback y'all are claiming is hard to get.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [POLL] Planeswalkers as playable generals
    Planeswalkers grind the game to a halt because of their abilities? Well I should advise the concern also be directed to decks that have lots of nonland permanents, that act during their opponents turn, tutor frequently, that create sticky boards that are harder to break. That a variety of creature commanders can also make games go slow because of how they interact with the game as whole.

    Planeswalkers are defensive and provide a health buffer? Creatures literally already act as buffers for your health. That like creatures, planeswalkers can also be offensive cards. Ever hear of ground-stalling?

    Planeswalkers require resources to take care of? Good thing creaures, lands, enchantments, and artifacts aren't like that and don't require the deck to actually pack a healthy amount of means to remove those permanents. /s

    Oh and I voted yes because I just want Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded and Tibalt, Rakish Instigator as my commanders because he is my favorite of the planeswalkers, not because he is the strictly the best from a mechanical standpoint. That if the concern is power, ban the worst ones, allow the rest, and call it a day.

    So, your argument for Planeswalkers is a sarcastic post that didn't even correctly address half of the issues you're attempting to poke holes in with faulty logic while simultaneously not actually doing anything to make a case for them?

    Yep, there sure are archetypes and Commanders that see play that slow down the game. They're pretty niche and not often played, either, while the issue of slowing down games is inherent with any Planeswalker as a Commander for the reasons I listed that you couldn't cherry pick.

    Yep. Creatures can block. Yet they don't divide your attacks between themselves and the player since it's not Hearthstone and you don't directly attack Creatures. The largest way of removing Planeswalkers is through combat damage where there's far less removal spells to be directed at Planeswalkers than any other type of removal out there. Your example falls flat.

    Imagine a format that rarely sees Planeswalkers suddenly inundated with them coming out of the command zone on demand and having to further divide all those resources. Golly gee it's like on top of all of those things you mentioned that adding a bunch of something else to deal with that isn't often around might be stretching decks even thinner! You even made my case for me here. /s

    In all seriousness, though, if all you have to offer the discussion here is to be sardonic then take that to social media or Twitter. We're actually having a discussion here.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [POLL] Planeswalkers as playable generals
    Quote from Taleran »
    I feel like that is a thing more based on the individual building the deck rather than more cards available.

    If someone wants to make a controlling, taxing, life gaining deck or any combination of those things those tools already exist.

    I am unsure if any p/w do this better than Commanders already legal.

    You really don't want Dovin Baan, Jace, Unraveler of Secrets, Venser, the Sojourner, Ral, Izzet Viceroy or a number of other Planeswalkers to get their emblem off or it's going to be a nearly impossible uphill battle. When you're having to keep them under control while also dealing with one or two other players who are also playing Planeswalkers, you're so busy splitting your resources that the game is never going to move whether they taxes or control or not. The fact is that being forced to devote most of your combat or removal to Planeswalkers - not even including the other stuff in their deck - the game is grinding to a halt. You have no time to progress how your deck wants to play, because you have to worry about their Planeswalkers. In the current Commander environment you can make smart choices and trades and let some Commanders sit on the battlefield without worry about them. There is more nuance than "Keep everyone's Planeswalkers off of the board". That nuance is extremely lessened and gameplay becomes much less interesting.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on [POLL] Planeswalkers as playable generals
    Quote from JqlGirl »
    Aside from the power level concerns that have been discussed here, my biggest concern on this subject is how having planeswalkers as commanders would affect the length of games. Planeswalkers are all basically life gain spells, as they draw aggro away from the control and can't attack like a creature commander can. Additionally, the lines of play for a planeswalker tend to be more complex than for a creature and so that would add even more time to the game. In short, I believe that making this change would be bad for the format in terms of making games take too much longer. Commander isn't a format like standard or modern where there's a clock and a time limit. Commander goes as long as it goes, and I know that I'm always happy on days where I can get in more shorter games of Commander than days where I play fewer, longer games.

    This is a point that I very much agree with. JLK and Jimmy Wong were discussing this on Twitter the yesterday, as well, when someone brought up one of the episodes of The Command Zone podcast where they talked about Planeswalkers as Commanders. They put it pretty much as you do here, in that ultimately, being forced to deal with way more Planeswalkers will take combat damage away from players and thus effectively be padding those life totals.

    Sure there are plenty of non-combat oriented decks that don't really get into the red zone that much, but those actually make for an even better case regarding increased game length, because in at a table with 2 or 3 Planeswalker Commanders, if the only non-PWer Commander is a Meren deck or something that doesn't bother to attack much, then that makes those games even longer.

    Another thing I want to bring up is that while I don't mind long games, I do mind games where everyone is trying desperately to keep one Commander off of the table. This is Commanders like Narset, Enlightened Master, Zur the Enchanter, etc. The Commanders where even at competitive tables, if you let them sit and everyone isn't attending to that player, they explode out of nowhere. At tables with those Commanders, you basically get very little time to progress what you're trying to do with your own deck because you have to be so concerned with what they're going to do. With Planeswalker Commanders, it's the same thing, except on a much larger scale. It is very rare that a game can afford for a Planeswalker emblem to go off. Some Planeswalkers, you don't even want them to use their middle ability more than once. Currently, if a Planeswalker lands in Commander games, it is either taken out fast, or gets lost in the chaos of the multiplayer nature of the format. In an environment where multiple people are able to cast a Planeswalker from the Command Zone on demand, you have to devote resources (time and spells) to keep them off of the board, constantly

    Some people try to make a case that players should simply run more removal for Planeswalkers, but it's poor reasoning. Planeswalkers as Commanders will fundamentally change how people have to interact with and play games of Commander because of them being in the Command Zone. It's not as simple as adding removal. Aggro decks actually get worse because they have to focus on Planeswalkers. Certain colors get better, others don't. And this will be a reality. If someone doesn't believe it, look how every time the Commander precons come out, or even any set with a new Commander, you see a large number of people building and playing the new and shiny thing. There is a certain amount of room to explore when a new set of Commander decks come out, or a new set, before people exhaust the potential of those decks and either they lose their luster and move on, or they've optimized them and don't feel the need to keep playing them over and over again. This is a sensation that happens with every new set.

    Now, imagine the above phenomenon but with the entire back catalog of Planeswalkers. That should tell you how many people you're going to see playing Planeswalkers as Commanders. It's new, it's a sudden whole new area of unexplored territory for the format at large. They're going to be absolutely rampant. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it. And that sensation is going to last for a very, very long time because it's not a small handful of Legendary Creatures, half of which that have a certain or niche mechanic or operation. Planeswalkers are value engines. It would not be healthy for this format, and risks doing more damage to the format than good. People like Jeremy Noell and other Twitter personalities can suggest that it's as simple as just unleashing them all as much as they want, but it is not good for the stability that this format has as it currently exists, or it's long term health.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim: What Is Dead May Never Die
    Hey everyone! Long delay since updating here, because... well, I confess that I've been focusing on a lot of other decks lately because Ayli has felt like she is in such a great spot and there hasn't been many cards to change or consider. But, War of the Spark is nearly upon us and that means I need to kick it into gear and do a quick review of Ravnica Allegiances! I'll look at everyone's posts and catch up in a separate post Smile

    Ravnica Allegiances Set Review!

    As always, I'll only be mentioning ones that are particular interest, here, rather than looking at each card in the set. Not even everything listed here is an auto-include or worth heavy consideration, but can at least be a talking point.


    Angel of Grace - We've seen similar effects to this the last few years such as Exquisite Archangel, Stunning Reversal and Resolute Archangel. These effects all basically prevent you from losing the game. I'm truthfully not a fan of any of these effects, because if you're in a position such as this then you're probably going to lose whether the save you or not. While you could make quite a come back, sitting at 1 life is quite perilous. Out of all of these effects, Resolute Archangel is probably my favorite because per the rules, whenever your life total becomes a set number, you gain or lose any amount of life equal to the difference. At least in that case, Resoluge Archangel works with Vizkopa Guildmage or Sanguine Bond if you play it.

    Forbidding Spirit - Because of the ease of reanimation a Creature and the amount of effects that look for Creature deaths and the ability to save Creatures from exile effects by sacrificing them, it's almost always better to have an effect attached to a Creature than anything else. Forbidding Spirit is a one-off Ghostly Prison effect that lasts until your next turn. Depending on how much recursion you run and how easy it is to repeatedly reanimate something, Forbidding Spirit could quite easily be better than Ghostly Prison for Ayli. In addition, each time he enters the battlefield as a new permanent, his effect stacks. So, if you don't want to board wipe or want to encourage opponents to attack at other players, you can chain reanimate him with Corpse Dance or Nim Deathmantle and stack the Ghostly Prison effect.

    Smothering Tithe - There is truly very little reason not to run Smothering Tithe in Ayli. The deck becomes mana hungry, and in times where you're the archenemy and spending a lot of resources on removal, recursion for that removal and keeping the hounds at bay, Smothering Tithe can be giving you a lot of excess mana. If you've seen the Ravnica Brawl Game Knights episode on YouTube, you'll also know how dangerous this makes wheels become for your opponents to cast.

    Tithe Taker - I'd truly rather run Grand Abolisher. The 1 mana is a pittance to pay past Turn 3 or 4. If you're running a tax-heavy build where you're stacking those types of taxing effects, then he could be another to add to the pile. Otherwise, I'd steer clear of considering this guy.


    Font of Agonies - It would be very easy to add up counters on Font of Agonies. That much is certain. The problem with Font of Agonies is that there's already so much removal available that can target more than just Creatures. You could just as easily run Attrition and have sac fodder mostly on demand, or at least as often as you would have four blood counters on Font of Agonies. There will also be times you just never draw into those cards you pay life for, which are mainly Necropotence.

    Priest of Forgotten Gods - Having to have two other Creatures on the battlefield that you want to sacrifice is the biggest downside of this Priest. It's quite often that we have at least one Creature to abuse for sacrifice. The effect you get for activating the Priest is well worth it and a huge advantage for you. I have yet to test her because I'm having a very hard time justifying putting her in place of something else. I think a comparable replacement would be Mangara of Corondor if you're running her, because of all the other exile effects available to Ayli. It can also be a meta call! If Enchantments and Artifacts aren't being super abused in your format, Leonin Relic-Warder could also make sense as a cut to try Priest of Forgotten Gods, with the caveat that you need to consistently have two other Creatures you're willing to sacrifice to use her.


    Kaya, Orzhov Usurper - Once upon a time, many people thought that the new Kaya was a joke, and that her abilities would be too hard to use. Now, in the current Standard Esper Control lists, her -5 is a win condition. Consider this: You are very often paying life or losing life for something. She has continuous, cheap graveyard hate while simultaneously gaining you life every turn. Orzhov removal is already exiling cards left and right, especially if you run Merciless Eviction or Bojuka Bog another player. You can easily finish someone off with Kaya's -5 while gaining a ton of life in the late game. Her -1 isn't too relevant, but is a bonus because it can help slow others down to your level by exiling their Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault and so on. She really is worth considering!

    Kaya's Wrath - This is technically better than Damnation or Wrath of God in most cases, because outside of facing Ezuri, Renegade Leader the "can't be regenerated" at the end of those is very rarely relevant. Kaya's Wrath gains you some life back that you probably lost if you're looking to wrath the board. An easy include, and a lot cheaper than the other two 4CC wrath effects, too!

    Teysa Karlov - She is the most stand out card in the set for our strategy. Teysa is a Panharmonicon for death triggers, with the additional ability of giving tokens vigilance and lifelink. The biggest problem with including Teysa, is that just like Panharmonicon, half of the time or more she doesn't do anything. She makes certain triggers that much more deadly, and there is no denying that. But, unless you're running a token heavy build, she loses a lot of her oomph. Out of the 30 Creatures I run in my build, 7 have effects that actually happen on death that are triggered. Is it worth it to run her for just 7 creatures, even though those effects are powerful? It's a turn and 4 mana to play something that does nothing when it enters the battlefield. I truly can't say whether to run her or not, because it really depends on your own builds. For my own, I think passing on her is not something I will regret doing.

    Revival // Revenge - This is an interesting utility card. There are 8 potential targets in my build for Revival, which isn't particularly bad for it's cost. Most of them are important pieces such as Viscera Seer, Fiend Hunter, Recruiter of the Guard, Vizkopa Guildmage and so on. When you don't need that, Revenge is a giant "SCREW YOU!" to an opponent that is being hard to kill, while buffering your own life total. While I have a hard time wanting to cut something for this, I could easily replace Unburial Rites or another similar reanimation effect for it to have the Revenge half waiting to nearly finish someone off. When you consider that you can get this back with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, it seems really silly to not want to run it.


    It's not often we get the opportunity to see so many potential playables or upgrades in a set. It usually comes with these Ravnica sets because we get a set where at least a portion of it is dedicated to the Orzhov. All of the cards I mentioned here are quite playable in their own right, and there are many cards I did not go over such as the Afterlife cards that one could quite easily abuse in a build wanting to focus more on tokens.

    War of the Spark is looking very interesting so far, so I'll be back soon to talk more about that, as well as potentially announce some changes to Ayli that I've been testing despite mostly focusing on fine tuning other decks. I hope everyone has been doing well, and thank everyone for the continued interest, feedback and participation in building and playing Ayli Smile
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Why is it so hard to get feedback on decklists?
    Personally I only look at deck lists if

    1.) They interest me personally,

    2.) They're an archetype I care about.


    3.) I'm looking for ideas and curious.

    I don't really go fishing around the forums to give feedback on decks that I don't have much interest in. I think it would be disingenuous of me to offer feedback, really. You can look at most threads here on the forums and you'll find that it's the same handful of users interested in that particular deck, plus some that come and go. My Ayli thread is certainly that way; DementedKirby's Sidisi thread the same, etc. That's kind of the culture here.

    There's nothing wrong with your decks or Commanders, I just really scrolled past because those Commanders aren't my cup of tea Smile Though, hoping for compliments on a deck or kudos for playing obscure cards probably shouldn't be a priority. That seems... hrmmm...

    Anyway, I do still prefer the low volume here compared to the various Facebook groups, or Reddit subs as others have mentioned above. Quality of discussion and topics still feel above the grade of social media and other places discussion has centered around, now. I enjoy that a lot of the deck ideas and construction I find here when it's something that piques my interest ends up having some off-the-wall stuff or original ideas that isn't semi-competitive players regurgitating the same staples/suggestions/"tier list" and asking you why you aren't playing X instead of Y, every time (
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [POLL] Planeswalkers as playable generals
    While the focus has been on gameplay, how many people would be impacted for necessary bans, and so on, something that also needs to be considered is how the secondary market would react. Wizards doesn't have the luxury of caring about the secondary market, but it's a consideration we can have. With that said, let me build a case here:

    -Most Planeswalkers are one-time iterations based on the story/setting; no reason to reprint them again and they won't be.
    -Only a small handful of competitive staples (JTMS, LOTV, Karn, occasional Lorwyn 5) see reprints, and not even regularly.
    -Planeswalkers have been Mythic rarity post-Lorwyn, making their supply much lower compared to other cards.
    -The supply would not meet the demand, making a rule change for PWers ripe for market manipulation/buyouts.
    -Even less commonly used Planeswalkers settle around $5-10 over time, unless they're just really really bad (but - may be amazing as an on-demand cast from the Command Zone).
    -The speculator response to a rule change would lead to a great many PWers landing in the $20-50 range.
    -Speculators are safe on flipping these/cornering the market, because PWers are very, very rarely reprinted, low supply, existing greater casual demand, pre-CMDR PW change if it happened.
    -Because they are safe speculation, they can sit on these without the market budging much. They would not settle very far from where they land.
    -Not only would speculators jump on this, but with a mass amount of people buying into PWers, the supply and market would strain.
    -A whole section of the market would become quickly out of reach for casual people, PWer collectors and Commander players alike.
    -One argument I've seen is that PWers are the face of the game and should be available (it's a shallow argument not worth considering tbh)
    -This wave would put most PWers out of reach of kitchen table players and newer players getting into the game. Commander has become HUGE and WILL have that kind of impact.
    -If you have any doubt about any of this, look at The Command Zone and SaffronOlive Effect, Protean Hulk when it was unbanned (before the M25 reprint), etc.
    -This isn't fair to kitchen table players or the rest of the game.

    All of this is a secondary effect of allowing PWers and it's guaranteed. This is before considering how many cards have to end up being banned over time that people are already playing. Superfriends is a popular archetype that uses a specific subset of cards that could easily have a case for being banned, and we'd probably at least see a few more bans post-change announcement as we see exactly what ripples this will cause. All of this is theorycraft. But the result? Potentially more bans in the format than we've seen in the last 8 years, just so people can play Planeswalkers, and the waves through the secondary market putting a good chunk out of them out of reach or at least a stretch away from the accessibility needed with such a change.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Bolas's Citadel
    Mana Severance removes Lands from the equation so you never have to worry about them coming up top. While it doesn't outright win you the game, in an Esper or Dimir deck you can most likely find ways to offset the life loss and just keep casting to win without Aetherflux Reservoir or Sense's Divining Top.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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