UW Control, 2/1 games, 4/0 matches, (differn't deck and player.)
Well there's a feat I've barely ever accomplished The only way I've beaten UW Control so far was with a series of truly busted draws...anything specific you want to point out to me?
Btw, deck looks solid. I'd definitely miss CoCo and Vial though...otherwise looks pretty much like what I'd run if I played black.
ps.: Congrats on the good results
I suppose I should clarify, I was very lucky. I had a very fast turn 1, and I won the die roll, so I had him dead before he hit 4 mana. Game 3, he mulliganed, and I got a successful turn 1 duress, saw I was free and clear with no boardwipes or cryptic commands in hand, and decided to be as aggressive as I can before he hit 4 mana again. He did eventually draw some control spells, but by that point I actually had 3 encampments in play, and was able to save key allies each time he tried to trip me up. Between the duress (it whiffed, but gave me key information for the early turns) and the encampments, they were key to winning game 3. The encampments have been an all-star of the deck.
I have been working on an Ally deck for a few weeks now because I was tired of playing jund and wanted to play an aggro deck. In any event, I've played it at two fnm's and have had a blast. The first fnm I went 2/2 and the last, I went 5/0.
Below is my current deck list. I initially was testing naya colors, but eventually splashed black, then cut the green, for the following list. There was no particular reason except I wanted to try it with Drana, just to see how well it would perform. It turns out, despite Drana being a huge target, the deck runs very well with her. She draws a lot of hate that would otherwise disrupt other allies, still triggers allies even if she's killed, and if she's allowed to attack, allows me to kill off my opponent even faster.
I have not tested with either aether vial nor collected company, mainly because I didn't want to spend the money. I have benefited from the fact that I had most of the mana base already, and the only thing I needed to invest in, to build the deck, were the creatures.
The tough matchup's continue to be control and fast combo, but I added the 4 duress before the last fnm, and they helped in my going 5/0
FNM 2
Through the Breach + Griselbrand, 2/0 games, 1/0 matches (same player and deck. duress helped me trip him up game 2)
Ub Martyr, 2/0 games, 2/0 matches
Mono-black control, 2/1 games, 3/0 matches, (very tight match, game 3 came down to me topdecking Kabira Evangel)
UW Control, 2/1 games, 4/0 matches, (differn't deck and player.)
RG Eldrazi, 2/0 games, 5/0 matches, I had a perfect hand game 1 of 2 freeblades, 1 bladesinger, 1 bushwhacker, 3 lands game 1. Game 2 I made a mistake in not sideboarding tuktuk, so his chalice for 2 hurt a lot! We both were at a stalemate of not being able to attack each other. He attacked me with 2 creatures, I topdecked a Firemantle Mage and won the match. He was at 1 life at the time he did this).
I think judgement should be reserved until the store owner can present his side of the story. With that in mind, in a vacuum, the store owner had every right to increase the price of the cards once you left them in his care. A store has one goal in mind, to make a profit. Good customer service skills are important, and from what was suggested, the case that the store was a bit lax in updating their bargain bins is a bit outdated. But at the same time, the idea of implementing a bargain bin is actually bad business for the store from the get go. It requires additional security (to ensure no one palms the product), requires inventory of the market to ensure they keep track of price spikes, and the overall market trend. Not to mention replacing inventory as cards get purchased. My local LGS has never used bargain bins, and I doubt they ever will. You want a card for a cheap price, inquire with the clerk the card you are looking for and make an offer.
It's an interesting idea. I don't run Kor Firewalkers in my list (I run spirit link for red decks). I guess it depends on if there is a concern regarding engineered explosives. At my local meta, the UR Delver decks usually side EE in against me, and I can see Grixis doing the same.
Is there a comprehensive sideboarding guide for Bogles? Not so much what sideboard cards to bring in, but which pieces of the "Hexproof Engine" that we can take out, without destroying its potency?
the primer on page 1 does mention flex spots, which is dependent on your list, but is still relevant. The core of the deck, that really shouldn't be changed, regardless of sideboarding and list is most likely going to always be the following:
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Spirit Mantle (this is from the primer, I've seen lists shave a few of these, so this last part would debatable)
The umbra's are dependent on what deck you are facing. Heavy control decks mean keep the umbra's. Combo decks don't care as much, midrange aggro decks, you can shave a few. I hope that gives you an idea.
I like the idea of emrakul along with the shrines. I need to pick up a play set of Nykthos to try that out. I was thinking that 1 copy of open the vaults from the sideboard would be good for my local metagame, because a few people have started making a habit of running enchantment sweepers like back to nature in their sideboards just for my deck. The celestial colonnade's have always been good, despite the suppression field making it costlier. I suppose I don't really need the islands, I've just been nervous about blood moon screwing me out of blue. I have been trying 3-4 copies of serum visions for quite some time, and they are usually good. But I was going to try the nyx-fleece rams in their place to see if that gives me more of a leg up against the harder matchups.
Regarding nodes, I had given up on them a while ago, they never did well enough against decks that populate the board with creatures quickly, and while they helped against midrange decks, I felt that wrath of god was just as effective.
Also, I have tried Chalice of the Void when I splashed red. It was very good. That was back when Treasure Cruise was legal and delver was everywhere. I've not tried it since they banned Treasure Cruise.
I'm not particularly sold on Myth as it gives our opponents a target for their removal which otherwise is dead in their hand. I tested playing with 4 Leylines and most of the time they just stood in my hand while I already had one on the field that's why I've cut them down to 2. Nevermore is too good of a card to sit in the sideboard, after the first few turns you should definitely know what you are up against and what's their win con/combo/important card which they play probably 4 of and you can eliminate all of them with a single Nevermore. Same goes for Runed Halo. Late game Sphin's Rev + Nykthos refuels our hand and can gain us tons of life. As for monastery siege two are enough as you mostly will be using them to loot and stacking that effect isn't very profitable. I'm currently testing out Nyx-Fleece Ram as they are quite beefy which helps us stabilize and can block a lot of creatures early on (I think they might be REALLY good against infect but I haven't tested it yet) while providing some nice life gain against burn and are an enchantment. Storage matrix + Ghostly Prison/Sphere of Safety is just brutal for most aggro decks and they can't handle it. For the sideboard I've found that my toughest matchups are the ones that have counters and don't let me resolve any of my enchantments and Defence Grid is just an amazing answer. Rest in Peace vs goyf/snapcaster/lingering souls/scooze and dredge is awesome as well. Stony Silence vs affinity which is one of our best matchups. I know the sheep also eat removal but are tougher I think. Sooo yeah umm Idk... I've managed to lose the finals at an FNM twice in a row vs Junk with this deck. Criticism is always appreciated! Bout that telepathy... not sure what to play in its place any suggestions?
I like your list a lot. I keep coming back to this deck because I love prison style decks and this seems to be the most effective one in modern. Anyway I too have had a history of problems facing Junk. I'd almost call it my worst match-up. I have thrown in 3 copies of spreading sea's to see if I could screw with their manabase a bit, in addition to runed halo and nevermore's, but that was too slow and ineffective. I think I will try your idea of going with a full set of nevermore, typically I would run 2 maindeck and 1 sideboard. I have had success with greater auramancy but that's a 1 of, so adding the siege along with it, would probably help.
I wonder if you really need the red in the deck. Granted Mardu Ascendancy is pretty nasty with Doran in play. But I just question if it's win more? I played "Zur the Siege Tower" a few weeks ago at my shops FNM with the following list:
I went 3/1 for the evening, losing to a Junk control deck.
I don't have the glittering wish package, but it is an interesting idea. I did not have any significant mana issues with the deck, but I did not face any decks that punished my mana dorks. I understand the temptation to remove Zur, but like-wise, he allows me to take over the game by either filling up the board with more dudes like courser, being more aggressive / gaining life, or just removal of threatening permanents. In testing I flucuated between running 4 doran and 3 inquisition or 3 doran and 4 inquisition and decided to go with the second option as I really liked having the turn 1 play of hand disruption. By the way, outside of Doran and Zur, Spellskite is an MVP in the deck. It causes a lot of other decks significant issues and at the minimum, usually eats disruption that then clears the way for Doran and Zur.
Not exactly a pure Doran deck, but Zur and Doran combine very well together. Zur acts as natural card advantage, while Doran is major beats. I beat RUG Twin, Infect, and BUG Control. I lost to a Junk control deck. In testing the deck hardly lost a game to burn.
So I have been tweaking this deck for the last couple of months, playing it in two FNM's both to a 2-1-2 finish. Well tonight, after more tweaking, I went 5/0! Here is the list and my matches:
Round 1: Merfolk 2/0 (I was lucky this round because he was not experienced with the deck)
Round 2: UR Delver 2/1 (very tight game, Sphinx of revelation helped a lot, as well as nevermore and runed halo's shutting down threats and cards. Defense Grid came down game 3 and swung it in my direction)
Round 3: BW Tokens 2/0 (I drew too many answers to his threats to keep up. Ghostly Prisons plus Sphere of Safety x2 with 5 enchantments in play caused him to scoop game 1)
Round 4: GR Tron 2/0 (he had slow draws first game, second game I had turn two stony silence followed up with two nevermore to shut down his answers)
Round 5: BW Tokens 2/0 (same as round 3. Started both games with leyline of sanctity which shut down his thoughtseizes).
I had been using Prophery Nodes but they've been too slow. The Supreme Verdicts have helped a lot. The Sphinx's usually win me the game when they resolve. The Serum Visions seem to be a must have. They get me the mana a lot faster, or answers. Before I had included them I would go into top-deck mode quite a bit waiting for either the 5th mana or to draw an enchantment.
Speaking of Living End hate, a friend of mine at the shop who runs Living End made mention of Tajuru Preserver as hate against his deck. What are everyones thoughts on this? Too narrow?
Obvious Pro's:
- green
- creature
- addresses all sacrifice effects (such as Liliana)
Con's:
- does not effect the graveyard like Rest In Peace does
- may not be as applicable against a wider field of decks as RiP.
Both are just as suseptable to Abrupt Decay and Spell Snare, etc.
I haven't had a chance to test it yet as I've just recently picked the deck up.
That really isn't a good reason. Oops I win cards occur in all styles of magic and deck types. Examples?
1. You have lethal creatures on board, your opponent dies next turn and has no cards in hand. He top decks wrath of god and proceeds to win.
2. You had a counterspell for every creature and threat he played, life gain to offset his early aggro. You stabalized at 3 life and will kill him next turn. He top decks lightning bolt.
You cannot convince me that the loser of the above two examples would be any less frustrated than a player who loses to a top-deck combo.
Legacy: Not sure. Yawgmoth's Bargain seems the least broken of the bunch and could be unbanned.
Vintage: No idea.
Just to clarify, Yawgmoth's Bargain is insanely broken and will never get unbanned in Legacy. I can't imagine how warped the metagame would be with that card in Legacy. We would have an influx of storm decks all over the place. Just thinking about it gives me a headache.
what are the best sideboard cards against Show and Tell ?
Personally I think the best sideboard card is Oblivion Ring. You basically hold it until they cast show and tell, then 'ring' whatever they put into play.
I suppose I should clarify, I was very lucky. I had a very fast turn 1, and I won the die roll, so I had him dead before he hit 4 mana. Game 3, he mulliganed, and I got a successful turn 1 duress, saw I was free and clear with no boardwipes or cryptic commands in hand, and decided to be as aggressive as I can before he hit 4 mana again. He did eventually draw some control spells, but by that point I actually had 3 encampments in play, and was able to save key allies each time he tried to trip me up. Between the duress (it whiffed, but gave me key information for the early turns) and the encampments, they were key to winning game 3. The encampments have been an all-star of the deck.
Below is my current deck list. I initially was testing naya colors, but eventually splashed black, then cut the green, for the following list. There was no particular reason except I wanted to try it with Drana, just to see how well it would perform. It turns out, despite Drana being a huge target, the deck runs very well with her. She draws a lot of hate that would otherwise disrupt other allies, still triggers allies even if she's killed, and if she's allowed to attack, allows me to kill off my opponent even faster.
I have not tested with either aether vial nor collected company, mainly because I didn't want to spend the money. I have benefited from the fact that I had most of the mana base already, and the only thing I needed to invest in, to build the deck, were the creatures.
The tough matchup's continue to be control and fast combo, but I added the 4 duress before the last fnm, and they helped in my going 5/0
Creatures (35)
4 Hada Freeblade
2 Expedition Envoy
4 Akoum Battlesinger
4 Kalastria Healer
4 Kazandu Blademaster
3 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
4 Firemantle Mage
4 Kabira Evangel
1 Lantern Scout
2 Mirror Entity
3 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Path to Exile
Lands (21)
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Ally Encampment
2 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh flats
2 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
4 Duress
3 Wear // Tear
2 Boros Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
For the curious my matchup's were the following:
FNM 1
Through the Breach + Griselbrand, 1/2, 0/1 matches
UW Control, 1/2 games, 0/2 matches
Bye, 1/2 matches
Zoo, 2/1 games, 2/2 matches.
FNM 2
Through the Breach + Griselbrand, 2/0 games, 1/0 matches (same player and deck. duress helped me trip him up game 2)
Ub Martyr, 2/0 games, 2/0 matches
Mono-black control, 2/1 games, 3/0 matches, (very tight match, game 3 came down to me topdecking Kabira Evangel)
UW Control, 2/1 games, 4/0 matches, (differn't deck and player.)
RG Eldrazi, 2/0 games, 5/0 matches, I had a perfect hand game 1 of 2 freeblades, 1 bladesinger, 1 bushwhacker, 3 lands game 1. Game 2 I made a mistake in not sideboarding tuktuk, so his chalice for 2 hurt a lot! We both were at a stalemate of not being able to attack each other. He attacked me with 2 creatures, I topdecked a Firemantle Mage and won the match. He was at 1 life at the time he did this).
the primer on page 1 does mention flex spots, which is dependent on your list, but is still relevant. The core of the deck, that really shouldn't be changed, regardless of sideboarding and list is most likely going to always be the following:
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Spirit Mantle (this is from the primer, I've seen lists shave a few of these, so this last part would debatable)
The umbra's are dependent on what deck you are facing. Heavy control decks mean keep the umbra's. Combo decks don't care as much, midrange aggro decks, you can shave a few. I hope that gives you an idea.
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
Spells:33
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Runed Halo
3 Suppression Field
1 Detention Sphere
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Idyllic Tutor
1 Monastery Siege
4 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wrath of God
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Sphere of Safety
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
6 Plains
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Aura of Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Rule of Law
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Open the Vaults
I like the idea of emrakul along with the shrines. I need to pick up a play set of Nykthos to try that out. I was thinking that 1 copy of open the vaults from the sideboard would be good for my local metagame, because a few people have started making a habit of running enchantment sweepers like back to nature in their sideboards just for my deck. The celestial colonnade's have always been good, despite the suppression field making it costlier. I suppose I don't really need the islands, I've just been nervous about blood moon screwing me out of blue. I have been trying 3-4 copies of serum visions for quite some time, and they are usually good. But I was going to try the nyx-fleece rams in their place to see if that gives me more of a leg up against the harder matchups.
Regarding nodes, I had given up on them a while ago, they never did well enough against decks that populate the board with creatures quickly, and while they helped against midrange decks, I felt that wrath of god was just as effective.
Also, I have tried Chalice of the Void when I splashed red. It was very good. That was back when Treasure Cruise was legal and delver was everywhere. I've not tried it since they banned Treasure Cruise.
I like your list a lot. I keep coming back to this deck because I love prison style decks and this seems to be the most effective one in modern. Anyway I too have had a history of problems facing Junk. I'd almost call it my worst match-up. I have thrown in 3 copies of spreading sea's to see if I could screw with their manabase a bit, in addition to runed halo and nevermore's, but that was too slow and ineffective. I think I will try your idea of going with a full set of nevermore, typically I would run 2 maindeck and 1 sideboard. I have had success with greater auramancy but that's a 1 of, so adding the siege along with it, would probably help.
I went 3/1 for the evening, losing to a Junk control deck.
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Spellskite
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
2 Siege Rhino
3 Zur the Enchanter
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Unflinching Courage
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Path to Exile
1 Thoughtseize
1 Aegis of the Gods
3 Nyx-fleece Ram
1 Rest in Peace
3 Spreading Seas
1 Stony Silence
1 Torpor Orb
1 Choke
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Rule of Law
I don't have the glittering wish package, but it is an interesting idea. I did not have any significant mana issues with the deck, but I did not face any decks that punished my mana dorks. I understand the temptation to remove Zur, but like-wise, he allows me to take over the game by either filling up the board with more dudes like courser, being more aggressive / gaining life, or just removal of threatening permanents. In testing I flucuated between running 4 doran and 3 inquisition or 3 doran and 4 inquisition and decided to go with the second option as I really liked having the turn 1 play of hand disruption. By the way, outside of Doran and Zur, Spellskite is an MVP in the deck. It causes a lot of other decks significant issues and at the minimum, usually eats disruption that then clears the way for Doran and Zur.
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Spellskite
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
2 Siege Rhino
3 Zur the Enchanter
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Unflinching Courage
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Path to Exile
1 Thoughtseize
1 Aegis of the Gods
3 Nyx-fleece Ram
1 Rest in Peace
3 Spreading Seas
1 Stony Silence
1 Torpor Orb
1 Choke
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Rule of Law
Not exactly a pure Doran deck, but Zur and Doran combine very well together. Zur acts as natural card advantage, while Doran is major beats. I beat RUG Twin, Infect, and BUG Control. I lost to a Junk control deck. In testing the deck hardly lost a game to burn.
1x Heliod, God of the Sun
Sorceries (6)
4x Serum Visions
2x Supreme Verdict
Instants (2)
2x Sphinx's Revelation
Enchantments (27)
4x Runed Halo
3x Copy Enchantment
4x Detention Sphere
4x Ghostly Prison
3x Nevermore
1x Oblivion Ring
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Sigil of the Empty Throne
2x Sphere of Safety
1x Arid Mesa
1x Celestial Colonnade
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
3x Marsh Flats
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Plains
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Path to Exile
2x Defense Grid
2x Sanctimony
2x Stony Silence
3x Suppression Field
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Rule of Law
Round 1: Merfolk 2/0 (I was lucky this round because he was not experienced with the deck)
Round 2: UR Delver 2/1 (very tight game, Sphinx of revelation helped a lot, as well as nevermore and runed halo's shutting down threats and cards. Defense Grid came down game 3 and swung it in my direction)
Round 3: BW Tokens 2/0 (I drew too many answers to his threats to keep up. Ghostly Prisons plus Sphere of Safety x2 with 5 enchantments in play caused him to scoop game 1)
Round 4: GR Tron 2/0 (he had slow draws first game, second game I had turn two stony silence followed up with two nevermore to shut down his answers)
Round 5: BW Tokens 2/0 (same as round 3. Started both games with leyline of sanctity which shut down his thoughtseizes).
I had been using Prophery Nodes but they've been too slow. The Supreme Verdicts have helped a lot. The Sphinx's usually win me the game when they resolve. The Serum Visions seem to be a must have. They get me the mana a lot faster, or answers. Before I had included them I would go into top-deck mode quite a bit waiting for either the 5th mana or to draw an enchantment.
Obvious Pro's:
- green
- creature
- addresses all sacrifice effects (such as Liliana)
Con's:
- does not effect the graveyard like Rest In Peace does
- may not be as applicable against a wider field of decks as RiP.
Both are just as suseptable to Abrupt Decay and Spell Snare, etc.
I haven't had a chance to test it yet as I've just recently picked the deck up.
That really isn't a good reason. Oops I win cards occur in all styles of magic and deck types. Examples?
1. You have lethal creatures on board, your opponent dies next turn and has no cards in hand. He top decks wrath of god and proceeds to win.
2. You had a counterspell for every creature and threat he played, life gain to offset his early aggro. You stabalized at 3 life and will kill him next turn. He top decks lightning bolt.
You cannot convince me that the loser of the above two examples would be any less frustrated than a player who loses to a top-deck combo.
Legendary Land
Cumulative upkeep 1 life
You have hexproof.
The anti-combo land.
Just to clarify, Yawgmoth's Bargain is insanely broken and will never get unbanned in Legacy. I can't imagine how warped the metagame would be with that card in Legacy. We would have an influx of storm decks all over the place. Just thinking about it gives me a headache.
Personally I think the best sideboard card is Oblivion Ring. You basically hold it until they cast show and tell, then 'ring' whatever they put into play.