I am also playing this deck and after reviewing this forum (about the last 20 pages) and I can say from the Black vs. Red debate that I am on the side of favoring the black cards. Red offers Blood Moon, REB, and Wear/Tear. Black gives you: Thoughtsieze, Notion Thief, VINDICATE (something that has been overlooked in the B/R Debate, and I will touch on in depth later), Engineered Plague, and Far//Away (if you are very concerned about creatures, but I ignored this card).
Blood Moon is very powerful against the one deck that we struggle with Shardless BUG, but you can also bury them by removing the threats and resolving notion thief to keep them from climbing back into the game. This is one matchup I haven't gotten to test. I will give the input on how I have felt about the black splash:
Thoughtsieze: I have had this card be a big contributor to my success with this deck. I am currently playing 2 main/2 side to have a little extra game against combo main, and the card has been excellent. Having this card in your hand is amazing, because decks don't play around you removing the best card from your hand knowing you play Miracles (which people quickly figure out). Then against combo having the full set of these helps you pick apart their hand enough to allow you to begin sculpting against combo and allow you to make it to the long game. More than enough to warrant wanting the full 4.
Notion Thief: This card has been excellent for me in most blue matchups, allowing you to put the game to a close when you are ahead against combo and control, and against some control decks, you can pull back into the gamre by notion thiefing at the correct time. I am only playing 1 at the current time, but I am unsure that I would play a second one or not.
Vindicate: This card is the card that makes me want black in this deck. People like REB against things like Jace and TNN on the stack, which is all well and good, but the power of Vindicate is much better then the narrowness of REB. People will bring in REB against combo, which is only good against cantrips and S+T, where as using our friend thoughtsieze, we can wholly disrupt combo by taking important pieces. That opens us up to use this card in much grindier games of magic against control and BUG. IT gives us answers to hard to beat permanents (Academy ruins, Karakas, Planeswalkers) as well as killing counterbalance and being hard to counter (being a 3 drop) being able to still cast this with a counterbalance lock on the table to kill jace is powerful and very useful.
Eplague isn't necessarily something I have to go into depth about, as we obviously see it is powerful and another answer to TNN, and comes in against tribal. There is also a humility in my board, so those 2 cards can be used in conjunction to lock them out.
That is how I feel about the black cards, but I am more than open to suggestions.
I play this deck as well, and it is a boatload of fun, and I can give you some suggestions that have for sure helped me out with this deck. I will also suggest some cuts you can make for the cards I suggest (may be a long post)
One issue I have had playing this deck hasn't been yard hate (you can play around/force that with splashy bombs, or avoid it by playing True Believer (so you don't get targeted), but with my creatures getting tucked en masse by Hallowed Burial and Terminus stifling the momentum that we had in the game. For that I would play some creature based sacrifice outlets. They make your Lark combos cleaner, and will give you another one with a card I suggest upcoming. The ones I use are Viscera Seer and Cartel Aristocrat, but your mileage may vary on what you want your outlets to do.
I don't know a lot about your meta, but there are 2 things I see that are severely lacking, and one thing that is way overstocked. You have a lot too much mana acceleration for how threat and card advantage light you are. You only have 4 scary cards for your opponents (Primordeal, Lark, Mikeaus Avacyn) and your deck doesn't really do all that much after that. Some excellent finishers/bombs to add to this deck are: Woodfall Primus (let's you infinitely destroy all of your opponents non creature permanents with a sac outlet and mikaeus) Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair (effect so nice they named it twice) Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth (for all the times you need an army, or your dorks can just be too big for your opponent to handle, blinking/sacing and playing Hoof from your yard will end games no questions asked). You also need more ways then just Arena to churn through your deck. You have tutors that get a specific card, but in most events with 1/3 of your spells being ramp spells, you are ramping into nothing, you need to ramp into some CA and then finish. There are quite a few good CA engines in this deck, so never fear: Soul of the Harvest , Harvester of Souls, Primordial Sage, Disciple of Bolas, Garruk, Caller of Beasts just to name some of the ones that do a lot of work in my deck.
You can also get a lot of mileage out of some of utility enchantments along with some utility creatures to take care of problem permanents and put you ahead in the game in general:
Mirari's Wake: This is one of the most powerful Green and White enchantments, and best ramp spells. Makes your creatures threats, and doubles your mana if you untap with it. Most of the time a must answer or kill on sight, but absolutely worth every penny of mana you pay for it, especially if you untap with it and end up in a phase of the game that our opponents won't be in for a little while.
Necrotic Sliver and Harmonic Sliver: Two Great Tastes that Taste Great Together! If you draw one of these things independently their effects are fine (naturalize and vindicate are good) and if drawn together, and sequenced harmonic first, you get to kill four permanents with them. Then on top of that, their recyclability with Karador and Sun Titan soon make then snowball out of control if someone at the table doesn't clean up the mess these guys will leave behind.
Angel of Finality: If this large tune up is us getting married to Karador, this is our something new. You said your meta was full of GY decks, and it appears you only have Loaming Shaman and Bojuka Bog for yards, so here is a third piece for you, recyclable GY hate, comes with a reasonably sized body, for a reasonable cost. I don't see a problem with this one.
and the last, but certainly not least
Mindslicer: This is a suggestion only if you have pesky blue mages or combo mages in your meta, but this card is a godsend if those are around. You just want to have a large quantity of creature cards, you don't care if they are in your hand or yard, they are basically one in the same, so if you play and sacrifice this guy when you don't have a lot of noncreature spells in your hand, you aren't punished and you get to punish your cards in hand wielding opponents mightly, and function as if nothing happened, and Karador gets cheaper. Seems like a win-win, and has been in my experience.
Okay, so I am suggesting 17 changes, which is a huge face lift for the identity of the deck, but I feel like you will flow a little better after the changes.
This may be counter intuitive but the first suggestion I am going to throw out is to cut Birthing Pod. You don't have a very solid Pod Chain. You have a huge hiccup only having 3 5's, so you can't readily get to the top of the curve where all of the power hides, and because of that I would cut the pod.
The next things I would cut would be some of the acceleration. Specifically Mana Rocks. We are a green deck, if we can't come up with enough quality acceleration with out going into artifacts that will get swept under the rug in an Akroma's Vengeance or a Austere Command, we are going to have problems.
Explainations: the Artifacts are all to not get caught under the rug in aforementioned artifact sweepers (which means there may have to be more work on mana base put in to make sure we hit colors and quantities on time), Crypt Ghast is bad, because you only have 4 swamps in the deck. if you played Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, then you could get away with guy, otherwise, he hits the chopping block super hard. Lotus Cobra seems fine if we sandbag fetches to stunt our color fixing to make him better and accelerate out certain pivotal cards, but more consistent land based ramp is better to put in (even though we aren't adding any of that) and the Garruk Wildspeaker is just the card I thought to cut in the straight Garruk for Garruk swap. It is a fine man, but very low impact compared to the other Garruks.
Next section in the tutors section. I am not a huge fan of Green Sun's Zenith, because all of the green creatures you can tutor for are basically mana dorks, we added a couple of green finishers, so it may be serviceable now, but it is strictly up to you. Also, I think that Garruk Relentless is a card that I would cut out of the tutor's section, because a lot of the time in the early game, the only creatures that will be fightable to flip him are yours, so you are already 2 for 1ing yourself to tutor for a card, and you probably will lose Garruk as well, so that is a 3 for 1, it better be the best 1 ever. Also, in the mid and late game, all of the guys will be too big to fight, or the tutor effect will be too slow.
In the removal section I have 2 cuts to explain: Martial Coup and Oblivion Ring. For Oblivion Ring I have an entire theory in EDH that breaks down to this. You should only ever Oblivion Ring your own permanents, because it protects them and then you can kill it to get your best permanent back. If this isn't what you use O-Ring for, then you are using it wrong, and it will benefit your opponents, so I give it the axe immediately. As for Martial Coup, I am not excited in the powerful creatures deck to play a 7 mana Wrath that leaves me 5 1/1's, I wouldn't personally be in that business, so I lead it too to the chopping block
The final 3 cuts come from the rest of the sections:
Mindslaver: I get that this is cute with Conjurer's Closet and Eternal Witness, but other than that Rando Commando combo, it just feels out of place.
Sensei's Divining Top: This is a personal preference thing. The card is wonderful, but for every Top I see in a game of EDH, it adds an unnecessary 10-15 minutes of length to the game, and I am not a fan of that. Not bad, just a preference on my end.
Garruk, Primal Hunter: This guy is fine, but there isn't enough beef that will randomly be in play in this deck to warrant playing him. his ulti makes you opponents cast Wrath (which is something that most metas have a ton of so it is essentially worthless) and making a beast while profitable is underwhelming as well. Just not high enough impact for the cost (and necessity to hit GGG that early in the game.
There you go, sorry for being so long winded, but those are some of the changes I would make to the deck, along with potential cuts (rude to suggest one and not the other in my opinion) have a wonderful day, and feel free to leave me some feedback on my ideas as well!
I would definitely say that 2 big missing cards that I thought were pretty on theme were Mystic Snake and Draining Whelk. This deck could definitely use a counter or 2 more, and being able to blink your counters to put them under the rug with DEN or Roon is very profitable. Also cards that I have been able to use to great effect in my list are Voidmage Husher (for pesky planeswalker ultis and oblivion stones), Phantasmal Image (obvious 2 mana clone is obviously sweet) and Slithermuse, because there are 2 sorts of hands, one where you get your ramp and are playing spells fast and furious, so you need to refuel, which the Muse is wonderful at, or the slower hands, where having it is sort of awkward, but I would rather have the option than not. If you want another form of graveyard hate, I might suggest Loaming Shaman, but I haven't figured out if I directly need that card in the deck as well. I am a huge fan of this archetype, and have tended to stay away from the combos in mine, but the Legacy player in me can get behind the silly things :).
As far as potential cuts, I am not one who is overly excited by the instant speed blink effects (momentary blink et. al.) but can get behind ghostway (because it is creating enough value to be worth a single card. Also not a huge fan Deadwood Treefolk. I think 6 Mana is a little too much to pay for this effect. It is unique, but I don't honestly think it is worth it. I am more than willing to admit I am wrong on these, and would love to hear your experience with them, might inspire me to make some changes.
Good evening ladies and gents, I have some big news, Mox Mania in Madison Wisconsin is looking to start weekly 15 proxy vintage weekly! You can find the facebook post announcing this along with phone number and address if you follow the link! Hope to see you there:
TL;DR
$5 dollar 15 proxy vintage tourneys weekly Wednesday 630 pm, starts April 10, 2 packs per person in the prize pool. Legacy players can make a streamless transition, and people who have their power are more than welcome to come out and play vintage, obviously unsanctioned, but has prize support and a couple of our players are judges!! Look forward to seeing you all there!
While I can't comment on how good Emrakul is in the deck (as I haven't tried it), I do feel strongly that running 4 Savannahs is the wrong move, because of the aforementioned Wasteland vulnerability. The deck rarely gets manascrewed because of all the land enchants it runs, and opening it up to 2- or 3-for-1s if they Wasteland an enchanted land is just bad.
I think that this is something for debate.
Sundial
Pros:
Repeatable (never know when that may need to happen)
Fetchable with enlightened tutor
Cons:
More expensive than Angel's Grace
Counterable
Vunerable to the same kind of hate the rest of our cards are (most enchantment removal is also artifact removal)
Ends our turn so that we cannot further our development.
Angel's Grace
Pros:
Very cheap
Split Second
Can be used in other matchups (storm) so that they can't kill us when they go off
Cons:
No synergy with other cards in the deck
One shot use
hey everyone, I am a new and budding enchantress player that just finished his deck at Gencon this year (Moat is a pain to get lol) and I am looking for a little help on the deck building and potentially new tech moving forward
I assume that all of you know what to sideboard for what and ect. But the one thing that might need to be explained is the 3 E.T. 2 Replenish package. I like the consistency of this deck and feel like the tutors are much better to go get silver bullets than to put in more of the same bullet for redundancy. I understand the whole they just counter the threat not the tutor thing applies, but I am still willing to have 4 shots at a bullet as a 1 of then 3 shots at the bullet as a 2 of that because of the flexibility. The 2nd replenish is a stem from that, if I get my 1 ofs blown out, then I have 2 replenish to recover. I have not tried the deck with Emrakul yet, but my friend convinced me to try it with a theory craft session, which may mean that a replenish gets relegated to the sideboard in favor of something like another city of soiltude or something of that nature.
I do have a couple of questions though.
1. Do we have any reasonable outs to Iona on White besides Karakas?
2. What is truly the best win con after an aggregate of play? I thought words of war might have been because it prevents decking out, but with Emrakul to discard, I feel like it isn't necessary anymore, thus cutting a red splash and eliminating the need for a Taiga in the mana base (less weakness to Wasteland)
3 Are the Savannahs necessary either (again with weakness to wasteland in mind)? I want the only lands we have that get wasted to have large other abilities (scantum is acceptable, as is Karakas)
4. Do we need a second or third Karakas, so that we don't fold to reanimation on legends (Iona and Gin specifically)?
Thanks for taking a look at the deck, any constructive critism and answers to my questions are largely appreciated. I am hoping to get very active on this thread specifically, and hopefully we can revive this deck and take it to the top!
Your immediate reaction is no spell pierce OMG???? But this was a strategic play, I am locked in to go long with this deck (trinket mage package for elixir to refill my library), I want to play a game in which spell pierce is a dead card, and if I am throwing multiple spell pierces at something is bad, thus playing the negate and just being done with it is the way to be, because most people will try to wait on being able to play spell pierce, and just blowing them out with a hard counter is off the wall. I have been testing this deck for a while, and with 25 land I don't have situations in which I can't cast JI and get ahead, even against a control mirror.
I have a U/W control deck (of the draw go variety) that I have hammered out the main deck for (to the point I feel comfortable with) which is the following:
The basis of the deck is this: Draw Go, with plenty of card draw and removal, then Elixir to get back your counters and removal and anything that was discarded, tec edges, ect, and eventually land a bomb and walk away with the game.
Since the deck has Main board lifegain in Elixir and batterskull, I decided that I didn't need firewalker for red, but I have the following sideboard, which is where I could use more than just the minds of my playgroup (i am the only real control player in it, they are rolling aggro)
You guys are intelligent, and I am a wee lazy, so I don't feel like explaining the sideboard cards lol, if there are questions though I will respond. Are there any cards or matchups I am missing? (Is tempered steel a deck? ect)
and would the following cards make the sideboard with a little bit of change? Karn Liberated Mindslaver
[CARD]Timely Reinforcements
[/CARD]
and are there any sweet sideboard tech cards that you guys can suggest that I can test?
Thanks in advance to the U/W control community and any other people that make appearances, and hopefully I can represent the archetype well at Cincy.
The elixirs are not necessarily to fight aggro, they are in there to recycle my counterspells, bombs, days, and draw spells. A lot of my answers are 1:1 (counterspells, orings) and with 1 of bombs, I want to be able to catch them around again in the very late game. The Elixir re ups my tec edges and counters to go around again, and doubles as +5 against aggro.
Dismember is spicy, and with elixir the life loss is a nonfactor. The baneslayers were a concession to aggro, but they don't always have it. and when they don't it shuts down the offense.
O-Ring is great, but I try not to let things slip through the cracks (besides creatures) and when they do I have O-Ring, so O-Ring Essentially becomes a 3 mana removal for a creature, which is sub par, in that case I would just rather play dismember.
Negates over Spell Pierce, because I tend to favor the hard counter over the soft one. Elixir of Immortality to reload, which is an unbelievably powerful weapon, and Batterskull is a spicy reusable finisher with very little artifact removal about.
I would really appreciate some feedback on this, because I am taking it to Cincy this weekend for the Open, and as much help as possible to tweak to the finish line would be great
Negates over Spell Pierce, because I tend to favor the hard counter over the soft one. Elixir of Immortality to reload, which is an unbelievably powerful weapon, and Batterskull is a spicy reusable finisher with very little artifact removal about.
I would really appreciate some feedback on this, because I am taking it to Cincy this weekend for the Open, and as much help as possible to tweak to the finish line would be great
I was curious if any of our alterers on this site were wrestling fans. I had an Idea tonight that I wanted to have the legends in my captain sisay deck altered into different WWE wrestlers and I want to know if there is a person up for the task. PM me for info please.
I have been building this deck, and since I am sans Moat, and can't find one, I was wondering, is Teferi's Moat a legitimate substitute if one is already in Blue? It does come down one turn later,but against most decks you get the same effect:
Goblins-Red
NO Bant-Green
Merfolk-Blue
x lands- cant hit factory.
Affinity - bad
Against the big aggro decks though, the card is alright. I don't know how far off I am but could someone give me some input?
I think that the sideboard change can be this instead:
- 2 Twisted Image
- 2 Divine offering
+ 3 Leyline of scantity
+ 1 Negate
and try that with crusader main. This deck is one big experiment, the things that stay solid (Aribters, Tumble magnets, Ect) are the only nonflex spots.
Blood Moon is very powerful against the one deck that we struggle with Shardless BUG, but you can also bury them by removing the threats and resolving notion thief to keep them from climbing back into the game. This is one matchup I haven't gotten to test. I will give the input on how I have felt about the black splash:
Thoughtsieze: I have had this card be a big contributor to my success with this deck. I am currently playing 2 main/2 side to have a little extra game against combo main, and the card has been excellent. Having this card in your hand is amazing, because decks don't play around you removing the best card from your hand knowing you play Miracles (which people quickly figure out). Then against combo having the full set of these helps you pick apart their hand enough to allow you to begin sculpting against combo and allow you to make it to the long game. More than enough to warrant wanting the full 4.
Notion Thief: This card has been excellent for me in most blue matchups, allowing you to put the game to a close when you are ahead against combo and control, and against some control decks, you can pull back into the gamre by notion thiefing at the correct time. I am only playing 1 at the current time, but I am unsure that I would play a second one or not.
Vindicate: This card is the card that makes me want black in this deck. People like REB against things like Jace and TNN on the stack, which is all well and good, but the power of Vindicate is much better then the narrowness of REB. People will bring in REB against combo, which is only good against cantrips and S+T, where as using our friend thoughtsieze, we can wholly disrupt combo by taking important pieces. That opens us up to use this card in much grindier games of magic against control and BUG. IT gives us answers to hard to beat permanents (Academy ruins, Karakas, Planeswalkers) as well as killing counterbalance and being hard to counter (being a 3 drop) being able to still cast this with a counterbalance lock on the table to kill jace is powerful and very useful.
Eplague isn't necessarily something I have to go into depth about, as we obviously see it is powerful and another answer to TNN, and comes in against tribal. There is also a humility in my board, so those 2 cards can be used in conjunction to lock them out.
That is how I feel about the black cards, but I am more than open to suggestions.
One issue I have had playing this deck hasn't been yard hate (you can play around/force that with splashy bombs, or avoid it by playing True Believer (so you don't get targeted), but with my creatures getting tucked en masse by Hallowed Burial and Terminus stifling the momentum that we had in the game. For that I would play some creature based sacrifice outlets. They make your Lark combos cleaner, and will give you another one with a card I suggest upcoming. The ones I use are Viscera Seer and Cartel Aristocrat, but your mileage may vary on what you want your outlets to do.
I don't know a lot about your meta, but there are 2 things I see that are severely lacking, and one thing that is way overstocked. You have a lot too much mana acceleration for how threat and card advantage light you are. You only have 4 scary cards for your opponents (Primordeal, Lark, Mikeaus Avacyn) and your deck doesn't really do all that much after that. Some excellent finishers/bombs to add to this deck are: Woodfall Primus (let's you infinitely destroy all of your opponents non creature permanents with a sac outlet and mikaeus) Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair (effect so nice they named it twice) Avenger of Zendikar and Craterhoof Behemoth (for all the times you need an army, or your dorks can just be too big for your opponent to handle, blinking/sacing and playing Hoof from your yard will end games no questions asked). You also need more ways then just Arena to churn through your deck. You have tutors that get a specific card, but in most events with 1/3 of your spells being ramp spells, you are ramping into nothing, you need to ramp into some CA and then finish. There are quite a few good CA engines in this deck, so never fear: Soul of the Harvest , Harvester of Souls, Primordial Sage, Disciple of Bolas, Garruk, Caller of Beasts just to name some of the ones that do a lot of work in my deck.
You can also get a lot of mileage out of some of utility enchantments along with some utility creatures to take care of problem permanents and put you ahead in the game in general:
Mirari's Wake: This is one of the most powerful Green and White enchantments, and best ramp spells. Makes your creatures threats, and doubles your mana if you untap with it. Most of the time a must answer or kill on sight, but absolutely worth every penny of mana you pay for it, especially if you untap with it and end up in a phase of the game that our opponents won't be in for a little while.
Necrotic Sliver and Harmonic Sliver: Two Great Tastes that Taste Great Together! If you draw one of these things independently their effects are fine (naturalize and vindicate are good) and if drawn together, and sequenced harmonic first, you get to kill four permanents with them. Then on top of that, their recyclability with Karador and Sun Titan soon make then snowball out of control if someone at the table doesn't clean up the mess these guys will leave behind.
Angel of Finality: If this large tune up is us getting married to Karador, this is our something new. You said your meta was full of GY decks, and it appears you only have Loaming Shaman and Bojuka Bog for yards, so here is a third piece for you, recyclable GY hate, comes with a reasonably sized body, for a reasonable cost. I don't see a problem with this one.
and the last, but certainly not least
Mindslicer: This is a suggestion only if you have pesky blue mages or combo mages in your meta, but this card is a godsend if those are around. You just want to have a large quantity of creature cards, you don't care if they are in your hand or yard, they are basically one in the same, so if you play and sacrifice this guy when you don't have a lot of noncreature spells in your hand, you aren't punished and you get to punish your cards in hand wielding opponents mightly, and function as if nothing happened, and Karador gets cheaper. Seems like a win-win, and has been in my experience.
Okay, so I am suggesting 17 changes, which is a huge face lift for the identity of the deck, but I feel like you will flow a little better after the changes.
This may be counter intuitive but the first suggestion I am going to throw out is to cut Birthing Pod. You don't have a very solid Pod Chain. You have a huge hiccup only having 3 5's, so you can't readily get to the top of the curve where all of the power hides, and because of that I would cut the pod.
The next things I would cut would be some of the acceleration. Specifically Mana Rocks. We are a green deck, if we can't come up with enough quality acceleration with out going into artifacts that will get swept under the rug in an Akroma's Vengeance or a Austere Command, we are going to have problems.
Things I would cut from the Acceleration Section: Chromatic Lantern, All 3 Signets, Gilded Lotus, Prismatic Lens, Crypt Ghast, Lotus Cobra, Garruk Wildspeaker.
Explainations: the Artifacts are all to not get caught under the rug in aforementioned artifact sweepers (which means there may have to be more work on mana base put in to make sure we hit colors and quantities on time), Crypt Ghast is bad, because you only have 4 swamps in the deck. if you played Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, then you could get away with guy, otherwise, he hits the chopping block super hard. Lotus Cobra seems fine if we sandbag fetches to stunt our color fixing to make him better and accelerate out certain pivotal cards, but more consistent land based ramp is better to put in (even though we aren't adding any of that) and the Garruk Wildspeaker is just the card I thought to cut in the straight Garruk for Garruk swap. It is a fine man, but very low impact compared to the other Garruks.
Next section in the tutors section. I am not a huge fan of Green Sun's Zenith, because all of the green creatures you can tutor for are basically mana dorks, we added a couple of green finishers, so it may be serviceable now, but it is strictly up to you. Also, I think that Garruk Relentless is a card that I would cut out of the tutor's section, because a lot of the time in the early game, the only creatures that will be fightable to flip him are yours, so you are already 2 for 1ing yourself to tutor for a card, and you probably will lose Garruk as well, so that is a 3 for 1, it better be the best 1 ever. Also, in the mid and late game, all of the guys will be too big to fight, or the tutor effect will be too slow.
In the removal section I have 2 cuts to explain: Martial Coup and Oblivion Ring. For Oblivion Ring I have an entire theory in EDH that breaks down to this. You should only ever Oblivion Ring your own permanents, because it protects them and then you can kill it to get your best permanent back. If this isn't what you use O-Ring for, then you are using it wrong, and it will benefit your opponents, so I give it the axe immediately. As for Martial Coup, I am not excited in the powerful creatures deck to play a 7 mana Wrath that leaves me 5 1/1's, I wouldn't personally be in that business, so I lead it too to the chopping block
The final 3 cuts come from the rest of the sections:
Mindslaver: I get that this is cute with Conjurer's Closet and Eternal Witness, but other than that Rando Commando combo, it just feels out of place.
Sensei's Divining Top: This is a personal preference thing. The card is wonderful, but for every Top I see in a game of EDH, it adds an unnecessary 10-15 minutes of length to the game, and I am not a fan of that. Not bad, just a preference on my end.
Garruk, Primal Hunter: This guy is fine, but there isn't enough beef that will randomly be in play in this deck to warrant playing him. his ulti makes you opponents cast Wrath (which is something that most metas have a ton of so it is essentially worthless) and making a beast while profitable is underwhelming as well. Just not high enough impact for the cost (and necessity to hit GGG that early in the game.
There you go, sorry for being so long winded, but those are some of the changes I would make to the deck, along with potential cuts (rude to suggest one and not the other in my opinion) have a wonderful day, and feel free to leave me some feedback on my ideas as well!
As far as potential cuts, I am not one who is overly excited by the instant speed blink effects (momentary blink et. al.) but can get behind ghostway (because it is creating enough value to be worth a single card. Also not a huge fan Deadwood Treefolk. I think 6 Mana is a little too much to pay for this effect. It is unique, but I don't honestly think it is worth it. I am more than willing to admit I am wrong on these, and would love to hear your experience with them, might inspire me to make some changes.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MoxManiacom/336189139753113?ref=ts&fref=ts
TL;DR
$5 dollar 15 proxy vintage tourneys weekly Wednesday 630 pm, starts April 10, 2 packs per person in the prize pool. Legacy players can make a streamless transition, and people who have their power are more than welcome to come out and play vintage, obviously unsanctioned, but has prize support and a couple of our players are judges!! Look forward to seeing you all there!
I am glad someone agrees with me on this point
I think that this is something for debate.
Sundial
Pros:
Repeatable (never know when that may need to happen)
Fetchable with enlightened tutor
Cons:
More expensive than Angel's Grace
Counterable
Vunerable to the same kind of hate the rest of our cards are (most enchantment removal is also artifact removal)
Ends our turn so that we cannot further our development.
Angel's Grace
Pros:
Very cheap
Split Second
Can be used in other matchups (storm) so that they can't kill us when they go off
Cons:
No synergy with other cards in the deck
One shot use
2 Serra's Scantum
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
1 Taiga
4 Savannah
5 Forest
3 Plains
Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
Enchantments
4 Sterling Grove
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Words of war
1 City of Solitude
1 Moat
3 Enlightened Tutor
Sorceries
2 Replenish
2 Choke
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Sundial of the infinite
2 City of solitude
2 Runed halo
1 Karmic Justice
1 Null rod
1 Pithing needle
1 Humility
1 Aura of Silence
I assume that all of you know what to sideboard for what and ect. But the one thing that might need to be explained is the 3 E.T. 2 Replenish package. I like the consistency of this deck and feel like the tutors are much better to go get silver bullets than to put in more of the same bullet for redundancy. I understand the whole they just counter the threat not the tutor thing applies, but I am still willing to have 4 shots at a bullet as a 1 of then 3 shots at the bullet as a 2 of that because of the flexibility. The 2nd replenish is a stem from that, if I get my 1 ofs blown out, then I have 2 replenish to recover. I have not tried the deck with Emrakul yet, but my friend convinced me to try it with a theory craft session, which may mean that a replenish gets relegated to the sideboard in favor of something like another city of soiltude or something of that nature.
I do have a couple of questions though.
1. Do we have any reasonable outs to Iona on White besides Karakas?
2. What is truly the best win con after an aggregate of play? I thought words of war might have been because it prevents decking out, but with Emrakul to discard, I feel like it isn't necessary anymore, thus cutting a red splash and eliminating the need for a Taiga in the mana base (less weakness to Wasteland)
3 Are the Savannahs necessary either (again with weakness to wasteland in mind)? I want the only lands we have that get wasted to have large other abilities (scantum is acceptable, as is Karakas)
4. Do we need a second or third Karakas, so that we don't fold to reanimation on legends (Iona and Gin specifically)?
Thanks for taking a look at the deck, any constructive critism and answers to my questions are largely appreciated. I am hoping to get very active on this thread specifically, and hopefully we can revive this deck and take it to the top!
4 Celestial Collonade
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Seachrome Coast
4 Tectonic Edge
6 Island
4 Plains
2 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Trinket Mage
Spells (31)
2 Cancel
2 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Negate
3 Mana leak
4 Preordain
3 Jace Beleren
3 Jace's Ingenuity
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Day of Judgment
2 Elixir of Immorality
2 Gideon Jura
1 Batterskull
The basis of the deck is this: Draw Go, with plenty of card draw and removal, then Elixir to get back your counters and removal and anything that was discarded, tec edges, ect, and eventually land a bomb and walk away with the game.
Since the deck has Main board lifegain in Elixir and batterskull, I decided that I didn't need firewalker for red, but I have the following sideboard, which is where I could use more than just the minds of my playgroup (i am the only real control player in it, they are rolling aggro)
3 Leyline of Scantity
3 Celestial Purge
3 Flashfreeze
3 Luminarch ascension
You guys are intelligent, and I am a wee lazy, so I don't feel like explaining the sideboard cards lol, if there are questions though I will respond. Are there any cards or matchups I am missing? (Is tempered steel a deck? ect)
and would the following cards make the sideboard with a little bit of change?
Karn Liberated
Mindslaver
[CARD]Timely Reinforcements
[/CARD]
and are there any sweet sideboard tech cards that you guys can suggest that I can test?
Thanks in advance to the U/W control community and any other people that make appearances, and hopefully I can represent the archetype well at Cincy.
Sincerely,
Calenderkid7
Dismember is spicy, and with elixir the life loss is a nonfactor. The baneslayers were a concession to aggro, but they don't always have it. and when they don't it shuts down the offense.
O-Ring is great, but I try not to let things slip through the cracks (besides creatures) and when they do I have O-Ring, so O-Ring Essentially becomes a 3 mana removal for a creature, which is sub par, in that case I would just rather play dismember.
1 Sun Titan
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Trinket Mage
Counters
3 Negate
3 Mana Leak
4 Cancel
3 Jace beleren
2 Gideon Jura
3 Day of Judgment
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Preordain
2 Elixir of Immortality
1 Batterskull
4 Celestial Collonade
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Tectonic Edge
7 Islands
4 Plains
3 Spellskite
3 Celestial purge
4 Flashfreeze
1 Sun Titan
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Luminarch Ascension
Negates over Spell Pierce, because I tend to favor the hard counter over the soft one. Elixir of Immortality to reload, which is an unbelievably powerful weapon, and Batterskull is a spicy reusable finisher with very little artifact removal about.
I have been considering cards for the main and sideboard
Main board considerations
Frost Titan (Sun Titan goes down in value with Elixir)
Consecrated Sphinx
Wormcoil Engine
White Sun Zenith
Blue Sun Zenith
Sideboard Considerations
Kor Firewalker
Frost Titan
More Luminarch Ascension
Surgical Extraction for Combo
Dismember to have removal
Perimeter Captain (I like Firewalker's offensive potential a little better, and since I don't play walls, there isn't any additional synergy, but I am open to it.
I would really appreciate some feedback on this, because I am taking it to Cincy this weekend for the Open, and as much help as possible to tweak to the finish line would be great
1 Sun Titan
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Trinket Mage
Counters
3 Negate
3 Mana Leak
4 Cancel
3 Jace beleren
2 Gideon Jura
3 Day of Judgment
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Preordain
2 Elixir of Immortality
1 Batterskull
4 Celestial Collonade
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Tectonic Edge
7 Islands
4 Plains
3 Spellskite
3 Celestial purge
4 Flashfreeze
1 Sun Titan
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Luminarch Ascension
Negates over Spell Pierce, because I tend to favor the hard counter over the soft one. Elixir of Immortality to reload, which is an unbelievably powerful weapon, and Batterskull is a spicy reusable finisher with very little artifact removal about.
I have been considering cards for the main and sideboard
Main board considerations
Frost Titan (Sun Titan goes down in value with Elixir)
Consecrated Sphinx
Wormcoil Engine
White Sun Zenith
Blue Sun Zenith
Sideboard Considerations
Kor Firewalker
Frost Titan
More Luminarch Ascension
Surgical Extraction for Combo
Dismember to have removal
I would really appreciate some feedback on this, because I am taking it to Cincy this weekend for the Open, and as much help as possible to tweak to the finish line would be great
Goblins-Red
NO Bant-Green
Merfolk-Blue
x lands- cant hit factory.
Affinity - bad
Against the big aggro decks though, the card is alright. I don't know how far off I am but could someone give me some input?
- 2 Twisted Image
- 2 Divine offering
+ 3 Leyline of scantity
+ 1 Negate
and try that with crusader main. This deck is one big experiment, the things that stay solid (Aribters, Tumble magnets, Ect) are the only nonflex spots.
Mainboard
- 4 Mirran Crusader
+ 4 [CARD]Baneslayer Angel
[/CARD]
Sideboard
-3 Baneslayer Angel
+ 3 Leyline of Scantity