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  • posted a message on Help inprove my deck. Junk
    Quote from MolnijaBasser
    i threw in two gavonys, ive been steadily doing work on this deck all day. It seems to be working alright, the only deck ive been steadily failing against is peoples dumb netdecked Terminus/Supreme verdict decks. They're a very good counter to my deck


    My suggestion for not losing to those decks is to not run out all your creatures against them. Hold a few back in your hand and wait for them to wrath before playing more. Try to aim for 4 power on the board and eventually they will have to wrath it away then just put 4 more power on the field.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Developing] Bant (4color) tokens
    Matchup results from last night. 6 Rounds swiss top 16.

    round 1 Vs. 5 color control
    Game 1 Started out slow and had no idea what this guy was playing. Eventually I got Rakdos returned to the face and was a bit sad. I managed to get enough steam to draw into more cards and get more threats all the while my opponent was keeping me at bay. Then I got rakdos returned again and after a long game, I smashed his face in with some really big drake tokens.

    Game 2 I get stuck on 3 mana and die to vraska's ultimate. That should teach me to keep a 3 land hand.

    Game 3 We're going to time and I had the win conditions in my hand so he decides to be cool and let me have it.

    2-1 Win

    Round 2 Vs. GW soulbond

    Game 1 I felt bad going up against this guy. He made tons of play mistakes. All I had to do was wait for him to dump his hand and then I Verdict for the win.

    Game 2 Get stuck on 3 lands again and die to a rancor on a paladin.

    Game 3 Was holding my own with a verdict in hand. Oponnent plays a silverheart and doesn't soulbond which freaks me out a bit. I play some dudes and pass with myself at 17 life. He plays paladin, soulbonds to the Silverheart and swings. I block with one of my 3/3 drakes and then he selesnya charms and I die to a misplay.

    3-3 Loss

    Round 3 GW humans

    Game 1 Thalia comes out turn two and I'm rather upset about this. He plays a Loxodon Smiter and thankfully doesn't manage to draw a rancor. I hold my own and postpone until I draw into a verdict and then proceed to stomp face.

    Game 2 Thalia comes out turn two again and I'm getting upset about it. This time he gets his smiter and Rancor but I play 2 feeling of dreads and thouroughly piss my opponent off until I again board wipe and then sweep him up.

    5-3 Win

    Round 4 Vs. Jund control (my friend)

    Game 1 Opponent has a well timed one of abrupt decay to blow up my virtue and suddenly my hand seems a lot worse. Then I end up getting rakdos returned into oblivion and he flops down an olivia voldaren and I scoop.

    Game 2 goes long and after being slaughter games'ed 3 times for intangible virtue, Lingering Souls, and Talrands invocation, I eventually pull out my collective blessing and beat face with a huge knight token and a sigarda.

    Game 3 I am prepared to go time but I manage to get a fast hand while my friend just durdles and for the first time in our three matches pulls one of his four liliana dark realms. Too bad he died shortly after that to a hoard of spirits.

    7-4 Win

    Round 5 Vs. RWU control

    Game 1 After I figure out that my opponent is playing control I slow down and wait him out. Playing one lingering souls at a time until I eventually win. He then complains that he always loses to stupid decks and I told him that my deck wasn't stupid, just not mainstream.

    Game 2 he gets stuck on 3 land for a long time and while he manages to counter almost everything I play he still loses and then is a poor sport about it and says that he hates all the stupid decks that beat him and I just smiled and told him to drive safe and he left.

    9-4 Win

    Round 6 Vs. BR Zombies w/aristocrat and hellkite

    Game 1 I had no idea what this guy was playing after I saw an olivia voldaren. I was stuck on 3 mana and got killed by olivia.

    Game 2 I got stuck on 4 mana this time and would have had a decent shot but got raped by a aristocrat followed by hellkite. Really bad draws on these two games.

    9-6 Loss

    Overall win ratio was 4-2 but I didn't make the cut. However, I am pleased with the deck and I have updated the decklist on here to show my changes.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Help inprove my deck. Junk
    A while ago I posted a primer for this type of deck. I decided to play a 4color version of this deck but it has many of the same principles behind it. maybe you'll get some help from seeing the list I'm currently using.



    Obviously you don't run blue but there are other options for you to replace those cards with.

    My first and biggest suggestion is to run Gavony Township over Vault of the Archangel. Township is a win condition and Vault is more control. Answers are always second to threats and township is a threat.

    You may hate me for this but parallel lives is bad. It would help you a lot more to run Collective Blessing over that.

    Lastly, I wouldn't run that much ramp. You really don't need 7 dorks and 4 ramp spells. Just the dorks or just the ramp should be fine for your deck.

    Hope the couple suggestions help and if you want some more help or a link to my thread feel free to pm me.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Cipher on Manlands/Keyrunes
    Does a spell with Cipher "fall off" like enchantments do when a creature such a manland or a Keyrune stops being a creature?

    Ex:
    Activate Dimir Keyrune
    Cast call of Nightwing and Cipher on Dimir Keyrune
    End of Turn,
    What happens to the Cipher spell?

    When you ask about a preview card, you must link to the card image on wizards.com. Here's Call of the Nightwing. -Carsten
    Posted in: Magic Rulings Archives
  • posted a message on [Developing] Bant (4color) tokens
    Quote from Yorutenchi
    I only run the intangibles in my junk tokens so I felt safe adding in the 2 6drop collective blessings. It has made my life SO MUCH EASIER.

    also 4x thragtusk or go home it seems now a days. Its a lot grindy-er of a deck than BW or the first GW tokens were. Its not really a aggro stragety for junk tokens but more midrangy. Also its good to have several different kinds of tokens specifically because of all the Detention spheres and sever the bloodlines running around.




    As much as I hate to admit it I think thragtusk is necessary now. I really hate having to make him a big deal but you're right. And after testing a collective blessings I think one is the right number for my deck.


    Updated Decklist:
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Developing] Bant (4color) tokens
    Quote from Rutherjc19
    i would advise against dropping draw power for this deck... one thing this deck needs is gas, gas, and more gas. But i also agree that adding in detention sphere/oblivion ring is a great idea.


    From what I've seen from playing this style deck, I couldn't agree more. In my deck, I'm fighting for space for draw spells and I'm unsure of what to take out and which draw to use. Garruk is great draw power but I still feel like I need more.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Developing] Bant (4color) tokens
    Quote from Shadow25
    I'm not the best honestly but it's not bad. The great thing is all the tokens fly so basically it's block if I have to and attack when I can. As for the mana it works quite well I don't really have many awkward situations with it. I was thinking about dropping the Think Twice and maybe an invocation for 2 Detention Sphere and an Oblivion Ring. Not sure yet though.


    Yeah, that's been a consideration for me too. Detention sphere seems like the best removal we have open to us. My only issue is that dropping the Draw seems dangerous. I see you're using less than 20 instant/sorceries so I would drop an augur or two if they are whiffing a lot.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Developing] Bant (4color) tokens
    Quote from Shadow25
    If you can get 2 of him on the field than you can really start spamming the hell out of tokens. Maybe use a Think Twice or 2? If you have summoner on the field you can just abuse cheap instant and sorceries along with some flashback to really spam the field.


    He's legendary sadly so multiples of him cannot exist at the same time. I was considering think twice but I decided to go with a more adaptive card like azorius charm because it can be lifegain and it can dig a bit and it slows down agro decks.

    Your deck looks really neat and I was considering esper for a long time but I have a junk tokens deck that I built out of extra cards I've had lying around. The trouble I've been having with those decks is that in esper, I'm too slow and I get mana screwed. In junk, I have no answers late game in my tokens. So I made a deck that has mana fixing and ramp along with answers and fat tokens. It's a bit greedy but I'm planning on testing it out at Fnm soon to see how it fares.

    How is your relative lack of removal working for you? I ask because I've been thoroughly frustrated with the fact that white is missing a path or swords in this format and since I'm only splashing black, I can't really run much removal. I'm worried that I'll get stomped by creatures that I can't deal with.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Developing] Bant (4color) tokens
    I am Highly considering testing him actually. I heard from someone that he is a bit slow but with farseeks I think he will be better. Probably start him out in the deck over sigarda and see how he does.

    Gonna go add him to the list of cards.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on UWB Token Spam
    If you decide to do that, you should read the competitive forums rules before posting anything. They require you to sign up to be allowed to post there.

    This is a link to that forum for esper tokens http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=457084
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on UWB Token Spam
    This deck is pretty much the same as the esper tokens deck in the developing competitive forums.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on SDC "Table of Contents Thread"
    Bant (4color) Tokens here http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=471869

    Combines the pump of blue and resilience of green to make tokens work.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [Developing] Bant (4color) tokens
    So, I've been playing around with different token decks lately and I have been thoroughly frustrated with my Junk tokens deck. I don't know if it's bad draws or just that god hates me, but I can't seem to make the deck work consistently. This got me to thinking (I know I know... it's dangerous), Why can't I have the best of both worlds? Esper has more static pump in Favorable winds alongside the Intangible virtues and green makes the deck more consistent with Farseek and Gavony Township. Maybe I'm just being greedy. In fact, I'm sure I am. But I think this has potential.

    Obviously with the Bant colors, there are tons of options for cards to stuff into the deck.

    The Cards that make the deck work:

    Lingering Souls: This card has been the best token producer since the day it came out and is self explanatory.
    Intangible Virtue: +1/+1 and Vigilance. Yes please.
    Favorable Winds: Not as great as Virtue or even honor of the pure but it's definitely the next best thing. Played as a 2-4 of in esper tokens.
    Gavony Township: If the name "Township tokens" doesn't ring a bell then you must have just started playing. Township makes your tokens that much better and will win you games. Esper tokens only has access to Vault of the Archangel which is a card I was unimpressed with when compared to Gavony Township.
    Talrand's Invocation: 4 power and evasion in two creatures for 4 mana. One pump on the field makes this 6 power for 2UU which is a great deal.

    Other Cards that are good but more optional:

    Azorius Charm: It's really self explanatory. Cantrip, Creature control and lifegain. Only way it could be better is if it put a creature on bottom of the library.
    Farseek: This card is one people debate about using which is the only reason it's here and not in the necessary cards list. I believe that even in Junk tokens, ramp is really good and since Pilgrim is less good in this deck, I'm putting my money on farseek because it belongs in Bant.
    Feeling of Dread: If you've never used it, you probably wouldn't understand. But since Alexander Hayne won PT Barcelona with U/W Miracles, this card has gone from underrated to underplayed. It stalls out your opponent long enough for you to build momentum or build up to a board wipe. Either way, I wish I could have fit more in my deck.
    Supreme Verdict: Obviously this is more meant for the control versions. An un-counterable finger of doom for all those nasty rush decks like RDW. Sorta necessary unless you plan to race them which, in tokens is rather difficult.
    Garruk Primalhunter: Yes he's heavy on the GGG side but he is an answer to Thragtusk and he draws cards in green.
    Sigarda, Host of herons: Definitely more of an optional card. She is Hard to answer though less synergistic with the deck. With the addition of blue in the deck I feel like she deserves a place now due to the Favorable Winds. She will always trump an Angel of Serenity given a township, Favorable winds, or a pike.
    Runechanters Pike: Again, this card is more optional depending on your choices for the rest of the deck. It seems to me that the decks playing Snapcaster mage (mr. chan) do not choose to play pike. In any case, pike makes your dudes mean and on a sigarda, it's just rude.

    Cards that should be considered despite my decision to not use them:

    Talrand, Sky Summoner: More tokens per spell but on a creature who is easily dealt with. Really slow and in my opinion is just not worth playing.
    Entreat the Angels: As a 1 or 2 of this card isn't bad. My only issues with it are that there are more answers to this card than ever before. Especially considering the Bant control and American Control decks running Detention sphere and Jund running Sever. Personally, Sigarda is better because she is really hard to deal with.
    Snapcaster Mage I decided to use a pike instead of Mr. Chan. While I like him a lot, it really depends on the amount of targets you'll have for him.
    Selesnya Charm: This is easily a good card and whether you main or side this, it should be somewhere in your 75. Being able to respond to the first trigger of an Angel of Serenity and exile her and all her targets permanently is pretty good.
    Augur of Bolas: Pretty good card for the deck. Should only be considered if you're running more spell heavy and planeswalker/creature light.
    Abrupt Decay: This card is a great removal spell for any rush deck or soulbond deck and it also stops detention sphere.
    Vault of the Archangel: A bit lackluster to me. I typically wished this card were a township every time I drew it. Nevertheless, it makes spirits trade with angels.
    Trostani, Selesnya's Voice: Hoses agro. She has the body to withstand burn and the strength to make them stop attacking. Playing an invocation after her can gain you 4 life or more and if you follow her with thragtusk agro players have fits.
    Garruk Relentless: Good walker with a fight ability makes him good. He is secondary to Primal Hunter in my honest opinion because primalhunter offers card draw and tokens that will stop an opponents thragtusk.
    Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: A very strong walker who can stop control decks effectively but she has no synergy with the deck.
    Jace, Architect of Thought: Last card I cut sadly but it had to be done. For as effective as he is, he is simply draw and garruk is better with synergy.
    Rootborn Defenses: Makes for one-sided wraths.
    Druid's Deliverance: Fog plus populate. Can be effective and was considered alongside defenses.
    Eyes in the Skies: the fear of being hit with a sever or a detention sphere makes this highly considerable over Midnight Haunting. It's instant speed still and it has the capacity to pop out a 2/2 Drake token for the populate effect. Problem is that it's 1 more mana than Midnight haunting. If it were a 3cmc it would easily take the place of said card. After some testing, this card is good and will catch opponents off guard but it can easily be replaced by more planeswalkers.
    Bower Passage: All my fliers are unblockable. Seems good right?
    Geist Honored Monk: With a single pump this is a five drop that can be very annoying vs most decks. 7+ Power isn't bad for 5 mana.
    Collective Blessing This card really puts your deck over the top if you're going late game. Control decks don't like to see it because it means that every spell you cast is a major threat and eventually you'll overcome their card advantage and win.
    Cackling counterpart: Man how I wanted to play this card. Too bad it just doesn't work well enough for this.
    Geist Snatch: you laugh now but on turn three+ this card is actually effective.

    Sideboard Options:

    Sundering Growth: Obviously.
    Rest in Peace: And half the meta suddenly hates you.
    Pithing Needle: Jace? No thanks.
    Syncopate: Vs Control this can be good though I'd prefer Dissipate mostly.
    Dissipate: Against most control decks this is preferred despite it's UU cost.
    Sigarda, Host of Herons Great card that hoses control players.
    Terminus Zombie/reanimator hate
    Jace, Memory Adept Great Control Hoser again. Just one of these defended will win you the game easily.

    My Decklist so far:


    More Aggressive builds are in process so don't get your panties in a bunch.

    Obviously I still have work to do on the mana base but I'm going to work on fixing that at a later time. If you think I've neglected a card or if you have suggestions on how to improve the deck in any way, feel free to comment but try to keep it civil.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Exalted Sublime Angel question.
    Personally, green is better than black in this case. I am a strong supporter of the best card in standard (Island) and you don't need every creature you have in this type of deck to have exalted. Personally I would drop black for Green replacing kill spells with fight club cards to use after your creatures get the pump from exalted. Rancor on an exalted creature is pretty nuts also, and when combined with double strike from either Ajani or Silverblade it gets even nastier.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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