Manicures are actually awesome, and very relaxing. And no, the manicurists don't look at you funny. It's the year 2013 and there are much stranger things to look at than a guy who's interested in proper grooming.
You'll have to forgive me. I have only beta tested the deck and have not actually played it against anyone. I understand that its bad in multiples, but it seems more likely that any excess will dredged as opposed to drawn. Exploration + manabond is actually pretty crazy awesome with horizon canopy (or at least when I'm playing go fish). So currently my inexperienced answer to your question is exploration + manabond. My understanding is, (in most cases) to start dredging turn 2. E tutor seems too slow G1? I can see why E.tutor is good, but I feel like a slower deck like lands needs to be as explosive as possible. Of course this could be completely wrong... But that's what it seems like to me.
Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant exploration and manabond or exploration and tutor without a loam. The tutor would at least let you get crucible or top or something while the ability to play a ton of lands would become irrelevant as soon as you emptied your hand. When this deck draws loam it really doesn't matter too much what else you're doing, the tutors are included for the games when you don't hit it and have to put something else together to win.
I'm thinking about moving my 2x E. Tutors to SB and playing 4x Manabond MD. I find myself tutoring for either exploration or manabond almost every time I see one for acceleration. It seems as though I'd rather it be a manabond in my opening hand and save a turn. G2 just side the tutors back in if I need to find silver bullets reliably. Is there a reason we're only running 1-2 manabonds? < New lands player
They're bad in multiples, they're mediocre with intuition, they should be boarded out in basically every matchup, overextending your hand onto the table is sometimes incorrect, and they're tutorable. Tutor just offers way more flexibility; would you rather draw exploration and manabond or exploration and tutor?
I would play -1 creeping tar pit -1 horizon canopy for +1 tropical island +1 tolaria west and try to fix the 4th G fetch (I'd play 61 cards, since you dredge a lot, it doesnt matter THAT much)
Agreed, but never ever play 61 cards in this archetype. You want to hit loam and accelerators in good balance, and anything you do during deck building that puts you at a disadvantage to accomplish that is probably wrong. There's always a card that's worse than the others, and when you find it cut it. Just good general deckbuilding.
I disagree with that a little. Some Control strategies, especially DRS now, gives us a bit of a challenge.
Our Match vs Storm decks game 1 is horrid anyways... I don't see how to consistently beat High Tide specifically post board anyways (I pilot TES, Candle-Tide as well). Non Tide decks post board is a bit more manageable.
My point is, I wouldn't dedicate the entire board to beat an archetype that we probably wont win even post board 80% of the time. Lands is one of those decks made to do well at larger tournanments. Don't expect to go to a meta filled with storm decks and beat all of them.
With that being said, my current board gave me a fighting chance.
In my local meta I'm 1-2 vs. Storm Pre board, and like 4-0 post board:
I found Trinisphere to be not as great, you need to land yourhate piece on turn 1-2, Trini comes out turns 2-3, 3 being too late vs many combo decks, a lot of the time.
The only way to beat tide is to play lands that make it look like you're on bug control game 1, complain about not drawing permission, hope they board in defense grid instead of bounce for game 2, and steal game 3. It's not likely or easy, but I and some others have done it.
My meta is infested with DRS. I'll try this list, but getting rid of ETutor is painful... love the flexibility so much
Hey Cuthbert, I was watching your video on blip the otherday. You should really do more of that stuff. I really enjoyed it!
I would, but I don't have lands online anymore. Between deathrite being printed and me being able to sell my ports at 60's I couldn't really justify keeping it. However, I think a buddy of mine has most of the deck maybe minus a few cards, I could see if I could borrow it and run a few dailies with it or something.
A side note, I may put one of these on my board as a 5th Maze, vs pesky fliers: Island of Wak-Wak.
I've thought about this card for a while, I remember hearing about it and thinking about it as the expensive maze of ith. How the times have changed. Seems like its worth testing.
My deck list has 4 Punishing Fire and I can tell you..... i reaaaaaaally love punishing Fire. I can take care of jace pretty easily, DRS, warchief if they wasteland my Tabernacle, a early dark confidant, etc! I can dredge them away and get them back whenever I want. I think is quickier and safier than Cursed Totem.
Engine [10]
4 Life from the Loam
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
Legendary Lands [3]
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
I like the look of this list. I disagree with Entomb as a tutor with Deathrite in the format, even if you do have fires to potentially answer it. I'd cut it for the 4th diamond. Also I'd cut the third thicket for the 4th maze, you need as many as possible against decks like jund and team america where your fires kill all of their small threats but their big ones can kill you quickly.
I love the idea of JTMS in here, I think the problem people have had adding him in the past is a bit of "its blue F it Irma run FoW package" which takes to many slots, but a 3 of daddy jace adds a win con that synergizes well with lands and can be a bit of a SURPRISE I RUN HIM TOO when people aren't expecting it. 3 of in the 61 land version is heat I'm thinking
Huh, I've never heard that thing about fow, it makes no sense to complain about that with Jace and not with Intuition. On that note, depending on how popular Deathrite Shaman gets, Intuition may become a less optimal maindeck tutor, so a Jace and Enlightened Tutor build that is way less graveyard reliant may be right. Worth testing, at least. Something like
4 Jace
4 Exploration
1 Crucible
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
4 Loam
1 Zuran Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Jeweled Amulet (Color fixing and helps to turn 3 jace more often. Could be explore or something similar)
3 Tropical Island
3 Tolaria West
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Forest
5 Green Fetch
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit (Might be better as 4th factory because jace serves as an answer to their jaces like tar pit, but tar pit is slower to block for our jaces.)
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
There's no manabonds because they are bad with in-hand jaces and bad against now maindeckable graveyard hate. There are no tranquil thickets because they had good synergy with manabond, but not much else since after boarding we have confidant to draw cards even if loam does get extracted. There could be a 4th trop in the manabase over the 5th fetch, but I figured that you want as many shuffle effects as possible with Jace. 3 Factories are as blockers for jace early on.
The link doesn't work. Was that the one from SCG providence? If so, that is the one I was thinking of.
Yeah, that's the list. I wouldn't really call that lands because it doesn't translate the advantage from loam into on-board advantage like lands does, but it does look pretty sweet. Also Caplan's Jace Lands deck looks like the best shell of lands to incorperate Jace into, outside of the 4-2 split on crucible and e-tutor that should probably be 3-3 and the maindeck bog that would probably be better as the fourth factory.
Speaking of Jace 2.0 did we decide he is crap in this?
Not necessarily, if any deck has the shell to protect a Jace it's lands. I haven't bothered to test it, but it could be good in a slightly modified shell, probably with no manabonds and more mishra's factories to block.
I cut smokestack a month ago, and I haven't looked back.
Yeah, most of what it does is overkill. The only upside I found was the potential to kill shroud men, but by the time it gets around to killing the shrouders you're probably dead. It is pretty fun to bump up stax to unreasonable numbers with worm harvest though.
I personally don't mind having the 61st card. I've never found it an issue before.
It's not the kind of thing you notice over a small sample size of games. Over a very large sample the percentages add up. If your list has a card like worm harvest, smokestack, or mindslaver, they are never really necessary and could easily be cut.
I see a lot of the lands decks running 61 cards, is there a specific reason why the deck runs 61?
In theory it's because you have so many tutors that the extra bullet gives you enough versatility to mitigate the fact that your deck will be less consistent at drawing its core pieces, but I think it's just lazy deckbuilding and that there's always an easy cut, usually worm harvest.
First off, I would like to say thank you to everyone who has put up the great information on this thread. WorstBandNameEver, you mentioned that you watched some videos, can you point me some of them? All the ones that I find are basic explanations of what the cards do, which, this and other primers do better.
Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant exploration and manabond or exploration and tutor without a loam. The tutor would at least let you get crucible or top or something while the ability to play a ton of lands would become irrelevant as soon as you emptied your hand. When this deck draws loam it really doesn't matter too much what else you're doing, the tutors are included for the games when you don't hit it and have to put something else together to win.
They're bad in multiples, they're mediocre with intuition, they should be boarded out in basically every matchup, overextending your hand onto the table is sometimes incorrect, and they're tutorable. Tutor just offers way more flexibility; would you rather draw exploration and manabond or exploration and tutor?
Agreed, but never ever play 61 cards in this archetype. You want to hit loam and accelerators in good balance, and anything you do during deck building that puts you at a disadvantage to accomplish that is probably wrong. There's always a card that's worse than the others, and when you find it cut it. Just good general deckbuilding.
The only way to beat tide is to play lands that make it look like you're on bug control game 1, complain about not drawing permission, hope they board in defense grid instead of bounce for game 2, and steal game 3. It's not likely or easy, but I and some others have done it.
I would, but I don't have lands online anymore. Between deathrite being printed and me being able to sell my ports at 60's I couldn't really justify keeping it. However, I think a buddy of mine has most of the deck maybe minus a few cards, I could see if I could borrow it and run a few dailies with it or something.
I've thought about this card for a while, I remember hearing about it and thinking about it as the expensive maze of ith. How the times have changed. Seems like its worth testing.
I like the look of this list. I disagree with Entomb as a tutor with Deathrite in the format, even if you do have fires to potentially answer it. I'd cut it for the 4th diamond. Also I'd cut the third thicket for the 4th maze, you need as many as possible against decks like jund and team america where your fires kill all of their small threats but their big ones can kill you quickly.
Huh, I've never heard that thing about fow, it makes no sense to complain about that with Jace and not with Intuition. On that note, depending on how popular Deathrite Shaman gets, Intuition may become a less optimal maindeck tutor, so a Jace and Enlightened Tutor build that is way less graveyard reliant may be right. Worth testing, at least. Something like
4 Jace
4 Exploration
1 Crucible
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
4 Loam
1 Zuran Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Jeweled Amulet (Color fixing and helps to turn 3 jace more often. Could be explore or something similar)
3 Tropical Island
3 Tolaria West
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Forest
5 Green Fetch
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit (Might be better as 4th factory because jace serves as an answer to their jaces like tar pit, but tar pit is slower to block for our jaces.)
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
There's no manabonds because they are bad with in-hand jaces and bad against now maindeckable graveyard hate. There are no tranquil thickets because they had good synergy with manabond, but not much else since after boarding we have confidant to draw cards even if loam does get extracted. There could be a 4th trop in the manabase over the 5th fetch, but I figured that you want as many shuffle effects as possible with Jace. 3 Factories are as blockers for jace early on.
Yeah, that's the list. I wouldn't really call that lands because it doesn't translate the advantage from loam into on-board advantage like lands does, but it does look pretty sweet. Also Caplan's Jace Lands deck looks like the best shell of lands to incorperate Jace into, outside of the 4-2 split on crucible and e-tutor that should probably be 3-3 and the maindeck bog that would probably be better as the fourth factory.
Not necessarily, if any deck has the shell to protect a Jace it's lands. I haven't bothered to test it, but it could be good in a slightly modified shell, probably with no manabonds and more mishra's factories to block.
Yeah, most of what it does is overkill. The only upside I found was the potential to kill shroud men, but by the time it gets around to killing the shrouders you're probably dead. It is pretty fun to bump up stax to unreasonable numbers with worm harvest though.
It's not the kind of thing you notice over a small sample size of games. Over a very large sample the percentages add up. If your list has a card like worm harvest, smokestack, or mindslaver, they are never really necessary and could easily be cut.
In theory it's because you have so many tutors that the extra bullet gives you enough versatility to mitigate the fact that your deck will be less consistent at drawing its core pieces, but I think it's just lazy deckbuilding and that there's always an easy cut, usually worm harvest.
*shameless self-promotion*
http://blip.tv/dashboard/episode/6298264
*shameless self-promotion part 2*
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/120812_kansascity.html
scroll down in the videos to the semifinals and finals