Ok, heres the thing, Upheaval worked with Psychatog back in the day, but now it's far better to throw it in a Dredge build.
Upheaval was the only thing worth a damn back then, but since then has really slid into obscurity.
Now I realise this isn't a Psychatog build but the point I'm getting at is if this doesnt work for Psychatog it's def not going to do well here.
Futhermore, your lands are almost counter productive for Upheaval, almost have of them want to sac themselves and Upheaval is all about returning the lands to your hand (yes I am aware that 8 of them replace themselves) because they are generally the only perms you chuck onto the field.
ok sorry about the rant.
Now I'm thinking there might even be a more janky alternative that might just work better.
Hmmmmmm, Ever consider Glare of Subdual? I run it in my token deck and adore it. It keeps your opps. creatures tapped down so you can sit back and comfortably assemble your army. It also allows for an easy Alpha Strike.
If you end up running Glare of Subdual you may want to kick around the idea of Supply//Demand so you can tutor for it, or chuck a ton of tokens on to the field (of course it requires a little Blue but Seaside Citadel can take care of that).
To me it feels like you have too many non-token creatures in this deck for it to be a spot on creature deck, kinda like it's suffering from an identity crisis. If you add more token producers over creatures I would throw in Intangible Virtue for sure. I have ran Sigil Captain in the past, but have found he's too fragile. You don't want to rely on a creature for buffs, because they'll just get nerfed. People in my play group tend to run less Artifact/Enchantment hate, and thus rockin global buffs with either of those tends to work out a lot better for me.
Seriously, its counter productive, you want all your lands to enter the battlefield untapped so you can use them, everything is so low on the curve thats what makes these decks good is it's quick start.
First off, what happened to Casual? *hangs head low* I remember when this place was active, really active and there was none of this nonsense. I remember when the biggest troll attempts, were people posting Chimney Imp decks. Step away for a year and eveything goes to ****.... sad.
Anyways to the deck.
If your trying to build around Admonition Angel, you should probably rethink your colors.
I would consider going W/U just for a little bit of protection because the Angel is fragile.
Other than that, fill the deck with 3 of's and 4 of's that way the deck will be more consistent and play the same way everything you pick it up.
I think Distress needs to find a slot in the deck.
Also you might just be running too many lands.
Finally, personally I feel that the praetor really has no place in here, its too winmore, by the time you her the management up you should have already won/lost.
First get rid of Nephalia Drownway. If mill is your thing, there are other options. In it's place add any other random U/B land you have laying around. Or, since you have 27 lands possibly add Dimir Signet in it's place for a little acceleration (or Talisman of Dominance).
Casting either of those turn 3 is always helpful (you don't really ever want to throw it down Turn 2 because you'll have to tap down. Playing it Turn 3 allows you to bluff out with counter mana open (if you have a counter or not, the threat is still virtually there).
Snapcaster Mage...... hmmmm, well if your meta permits it I would replace him with Dralnu, Lich Lord. Dralnu, Lich Lord is a cheap (on the wallet) rare from a couple years ago that will allow you to repeatedly give cards in your Yard Flashback without any mana investment on the front end. Just don't dare play him in a meta with a lot of burn.
Think Twice - While I like Think Twice, it's not optimal given all the choices you have. If your going to be playing in a Modern tourney Fact or Fiction wont work, but if your just keeping it Modern for the look and feel, it has been reprinted with an update boarder a few times. 5 mana for 2 random cards off the top of your library isn't too good. If not Fact or Fiction consider Forbidden Alchemy while it will only replace it's self, i.e. not really offer any card advantage, it will allow you to dig deep and chose the best card for the situation. Forbidden Alchemy also sports Flashback for late game digging. (yes I realise that you have Forbidden Alchemy in your deck already, btw just up it's count and Blue Sun's Zenith) Finally I suppose Jace's Ingenuity deserves mention, the mana cost is rather restrictive but it will net you card advantage, and it's an instant. There's always Ancestral Visions but it's ban in Modern.
Tragic Slip seems good but is it really better than straight up removal? How have your experiences been? I think that it could easily be replaced by Doom Blade or Dismember. IDK, it just seems to be a terrible topdeck.
Other than that, Grave Titian is great, but has no evasion maybe you want to consider a finisher with Flying, or any other way to evade being chump blocked (like maybe that Sphinx in your board or Sphinx of Jwar Isle, comes with Evasion and Shroud)
Ghost Quarter seems odd, control decks are all about having more mana, what are you nuking thats so important that you'd want to sac a land? It's great against utility lands, but in reality it's not quite necessary.
Ever have problems with Weenie decks? Infest should help out (or drop the cash and get Damnation)
Finally Negate seems like it should be in the board.
You know I got directed here form a pm, so I will admit I did not read the post I just looked at the deck, so sorry for suggestion Ashnod's Altar.
I do suppose you could always go with Krark-Clan Ironworks, but that makes tuturing a bit more clunky. (still sayin though drop the tutors, replace with Fabricate and Draw). Still..... KCI looks outta place on the curve.
As for going truely infinite though it gives the best possible results (for Modern). See Genesis Chamber (Infinite Creatures and Colorless Mana), Disciple of the Vault (Infinite Life Loss), Deathgreeter (Infinite Life), Seahoff Occultist (Infinite Mill)...... and a few more options that are more convoluted that involve Infinite Card Draw, Infinite Hand Disruption, Infinite Mill (using an artifact) and Infinite Damage.
This is my first control deck. This is meant to be a 2v2 support deck to someone playing BG undying..... But really I can adjust it later. Was just hopping to get a good UB control 1v1 deck running out of this. As I said never made a control deck before although I have seen a few play. Any suggestions would be great.
also I was considering putting in some discard for some better card advantage. Also what is everyones thoughts on using cards such as vapor snag in this deck?
First things first, let me help you organise it a bit :
Alright I've been rocking the Retriever Combo for years, like since Mirrodin, so I may be useful here.
First your correct UB is the way to go.
Now I strongly disagree with Heartless Summons in this deck. Personally I believe that Ashod's Altar does the job much better.
Why you ask?
Well there's several reasons -
1. You can put in a cheap tutor to find both of your main pieces (Myr Retriever and Ashnod's Altar) while you have Beseech the Queen that does about the same thing, Fabricate does it at the same CMC but is easier on a casual mana base.
2. It doesn't have any drawback, yep that's right no -1/-1 here.
3. In a pinch you can sac off a creature at the end of comboing out to add precise mana to your pool. In reality it generally means going off 1 turn earlier, and isn't always needed, but it's got me out of a couple close ones.
4. It allows you to run Disciple of the Vault along side of it, which gives you something relevant to drop T1. Currently you only have Inquisition of Kozilek, which is fantastic T1 but I'm willing to beat you don't always have it in your opening hand and generally drop a land and pass the turn T1, correct?
5. You can respond to Evoke hitting the stack to sac off Mulldrifter to it, allowing you to draw 2 cards essentially for U.
The Drawbacks :
1. Cost 1 mana more.
2. You can't use Corpse Cur, because he all but becomes useless...... but.....
With all of that being said, I have moved away from tutors after playing this style of deck for so long. Instead I use a tad bit of permission and a whole lot of solid draw, and just draw into my combo.
Nether Traitor requires a creature other than himself, notwithstanding an additional mana vs not having to pay any mana whatsoever. Speaking of, what's the odds of drawing zero lands multiple times in succession while drawing at least 3 cards per turn? Exactly, more than 1/3rd of the of the deck is lands, so probability-wise the chances of Bloodghast always being relevant once the 'Clamping begins are higher than if he solely ran Nether Traitor and neither Bloodghast nor Reassembling Skeleton (simply because it's 21 lands vs 17 creatures. Simple math). Nether Traitor only triggers off of combat, Innocent Blood and Fleshbag Marauder (because the owner of Nether Traitor must lose a different creature), while Bloodghast can be brought back manaless without reliance upon any other creatures. Bloodghast sounds way better, to me. I stand by my original statement that Bloodghast is the best reusable think I could think of to Skullclamp.
Also, you couldn't know this but I already suggested Nether Traitor in the place of Reassembling Skeleton (on a different forum, I can't believe I forgot to mention it again here, my apologies). Maybe you can do a better job advocating the card than I can, though.
Ok, a couple things.
1. I suppose I have to kinda concede, your right in certain decks Bloodghast is better (*cough* Singelton formats *cough*). Outside of the vacuum of singleton formats, I honestly do believe Nether Traitor is far superior. (More on this later though)
2. You do raise a valid point about the mathematical implications on draws at least 1 land per "clamp". (but then again, what does mathematics have to do with a game thats partially governed by chance?) Let me as you something, Have you ever experienced Mana Flood or Mana Screw? Kind of bones your math, no?
3. Your wrong in your statement of "Nether Traitor only triggers off of combat, Innocent Blood and Fleshbag Marauder" (Unless like I said earlier we are talking about singleton formats). Once you have 2 Nether Traitors they can trigger off of each other, ergo You can "Clamp" as many times a turn equal to half your mana. So if you have your Bloodghast on turn 6, and I have 2 Neither Traitiors, lets assume you sac your Bloodghast, draw your cards, and drop a land, he comes back and you do it once more.
Assuming something like Grave Pact is out you just :
1. Spent 2 Mana
2. Lost 1 creature
3. Drew 4 cards
5. Made your opp, sac 2 creatures
you pass the turn, assuming I have 2 Nether Traitors, and haven't missed a land drop. :
1. Spent 4 mana
2. Lose 0 creature
3, Draw 4 cards
5. Made opp. sac 2 creatures.
The above example looks pretty fair. Well more than fair it makes Bloodghast look clearly better (half the mana cost, screw the creatures) but if I chose to in my example I could have do it one more time making my end of the figure look like :
1. Spent 6 mana
2. Lost 0 creature
3. Drew 6 cards
4. Made opp. sac 3 creatures.
Much like Skullclamp it's self the best part of Nether Traitor is as reusabe as you have mana to reuse him with (where in Bloodghast has that whole landfall thingy, and as Black players we can only play one land per turn...... like ever (excluding with the help of artifices, or fetch lands). So the most you'll EVER be able to use Bloodghast in one turn in this deck, is 2 and thats assuming you didnt sac the ass clown the turn before.
In fact, I can think of no creature better for reusable Skullclamping than Bloodghast.
I am filled with so MUCH rage. (nerd rage at that.) Nether Traitor would like a stern word with you my friend. Not only does he trigger more than once per turn, he's better with a non-land top deck.
Also he's utterly the tits with Phyrexian Alter. (thats a period, btw.)
Upheaval was the only thing worth a damn back then, but since then has really slid into obscurity.
Now I realise this isn't a Psychatog build but the point I'm getting at is if this doesnt work for Psychatog it's def not going to do well here.
Futhermore, your lands are almost counter productive for Upheaval, almost have of them want to sac themselves and Upheaval is all about returning the lands to your hand (yes I am aware that 8 of them replace themselves) because they are generally the only perms you chuck onto the field.
ok sorry about the rant.
Now I'm thinking there might even be a more janky alternative that might just work better.
Ever consider flooding the deck with cheap creatures that have some sort of descent effect (Mulldrifter, Aether Adept, Gatekeeper of Malakir, ect.), and Soulquake to combo out with Zombie Infestation?
I mean it's just a thought, what do you think?
Other than that, I personally would run Increasing Ambition over Scatter the Seeds any day.
If you end up running Glare of Subdual you may want to kick around the idea of Supply//Demand so you can tutor for it, or chuck a ton of tokens on to the field (of course it requires a little Blue but Seaside Citadel can take care of that).
To me it feels like you have too many non-token creatures in this deck for it to be a spot on creature deck, kinda like it's suffering from an identity crisis. If you add more token producers over creatures I would throw in Intangible Virtue for sure. I have ran Sigil Captain in the past, but have found he's too fragile. You don't want to rely on a creature for buffs, because they'll just get nerfed. People in my play group tend to run less Artifact/Enchantment hate, and thus rockin global buffs with either of those tends to work out a lot better for me.
Seriously, its counter productive, you want all your lands to enter the battlefield untapped so you can use them, everything is so low on the curve thats what makes these decks good is it's quick start.
Anyways to the deck.
If your trying to build around Admonition Angel, you should probably rethink your colors.
I would consider going W/U just for a little bit of protection because the Angel is fragile.
Other than that, fill the deck with 3 of's and 4 of's that way the deck will be more consistent and play the same way everything you pick it up.
Also you might just be running too many lands.
Finally, personally I feel that the praetor really has no place in here, its too winmore, by the time you her the management up you should have already won/lost.
Ever consider the Mana Myrs for excelleration/fixing/warm (errr or cold as it were) bodies?
Replace Pyroclasm with Whipflare and you might just have yourself a little something something.
Just a thought though, in trying to deal with that ridiculous mana curve, and synergy with Mishra.
Yes I love that card I was trying to remember the name though, lol.
Also maybe Dreadship Reef might be good with your Zeniths.
First get rid of Nephalia Drownway. If mill is your thing, there are other options. In it's place add any other random U/B land you have laying around. Or, since you have 27 lands possibly add Dimir Signet in it's place for a little acceleration (or Talisman of Dominance).
Casting either of those turn 3 is always helpful (you don't really ever want to throw it down Turn 2 because you'll have to tap down. Playing it Turn 3 allows you to bluff out with counter mana open (if you have a counter or not, the threat is still virtually there).
Snapcaster Mage...... hmmmm, well if your meta permits it I would replace him with Dralnu, Lich Lord. Dralnu, Lich Lord is a cheap (on the wallet) rare from a couple years ago that will allow you to repeatedly give cards in your Yard Flashback without any mana investment on the front end. Just don't dare play him in a meta with a lot of burn.
Think Twice - While I like Think Twice, it's not optimal given all the choices you have. If your going to be playing in a Modern tourney Fact or Fiction wont work, but if your just keeping it Modern for the look and feel, it has been reprinted with an update boarder a few times. 5 mana for 2 random cards off the top of your library isn't too good. If not Fact or Fiction consider Forbidden Alchemy while it will only replace it's self, i.e. not really offer any card advantage, it will allow you to dig deep and chose the best card for the situation. Forbidden Alchemy also sports Flashback for late game digging. (yes I realise that you have Forbidden Alchemy in your deck already, btw just up it's count and Blue Sun's Zenith) Finally I suppose Jace's Ingenuity deserves mention, the mana cost is rather restrictive but it will net you card advantage, and it's an instant. There's always Ancestral Visions but it's ban in Modern.
Tragic Slip seems good but is it really better than straight up removal? How have your experiences been? I think that it could easily be replaced by Doom Blade or Dismember. IDK, it just seems to be a terrible topdeck.
Other than that, Grave Titian is great, but has no evasion maybe you want to consider a finisher with Flying, or any other way to evade being chump blocked (like maybe that Sphinx in your board or Sphinx of Jwar Isle, comes with Evasion and Shroud)
Curse of Death's Hold and Ratchet Bomb are great but You may want to work on getting a few more of each.
Ghost Quarter seems odd, control decks are all about having more mana, what are you nuking thats so important that you'd want to sac a land? It's great against utility lands, but in reality it's not quite necessary.
Ever have problems with Weenie decks? Infest should help out (or drop the cash and get Damnation)
Finally Negate seems like it should be in the board.
Comments?
I do suppose you could always go with Krark-Clan Ironworks, but that makes tuturing a bit more clunky. (still sayin though drop the tutors, replace with Fabricate and Draw). Still..... KCI looks outta place on the curve.
As for going truely infinite though it gives the best possible results (for Modern). See Genesis Chamber (Infinite Creatures and Colorless Mana), Disciple of the Vault (Infinite Life Loss), Deathgreeter (Infinite Life), Seahoff Occultist (Infinite Mill)...... and a few more options that are more convoluted that involve Infinite Card Draw, Infinite Hand Disruption, Infinite Mill (using an artifact) and Infinite Damage.
First things first, let me help you organise it a bit :
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Curse of Death's Hold
3x Black Sun's Zenith
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
3x Dissipate
2x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Rune Snag
4x Think Twice
3x Go for the Throat
4x Tragic Slip
6x Swamp
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Drowned Catacomb
3x Ghost Quarter
3x Nephalia Drownyard
2x Bloodline Keeper
2x Consecrated Sphinx
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Tribute to Hunger
3x Doom Blade
2x Negate
Now what kind of budget, and are you trying to keep it to any certain format, or just casual brutality?
First your correct UB is the way to go.
Now I strongly disagree with Heartless Summons in this deck. Personally I believe that Ashod's Altar does the job much better.
Why you ask?
Well there's several reasons -
1. You can put in a cheap tutor to find both of your main pieces (Myr Retriever and Ashnod's Altar) while you have Beseech the Queen that does about the same thing, Fabricate does it at the same CMC but is easier on a casual mana base.
2. It doesn't have any drawback, yep that's right no -1/-1 here.
3. In a pinch you can sac off a creature at the end of comboing out to add precise mana to your pool. In reality it generally means going off 1 turn earlier, and isn't always needed, but it's got me out of a couple close ones.
4. It allows you to run Disciple of the Vault along side of it, which gives you something relevant to drop T1. Currently you only have Inquisition of Kozilek, which is fantastic T1 but I'm willing to beat you don't always have it in your opening hand and generally drop a land and pass the turn T1, correct?
5. You can respond to Evoke hitting the stack to sac off Mulldrifter to it, allowing you to draw 2 cards essentially for U.
The Drawbacks :
1. Cost 1 mana more.
2. You can't use Corpse Cur, because he all but becomes useless...... but.....
You can add Drift of Phantasms, and knock out some tutors, because it will tutor for : Fabricate (if you chose to use it), Ashnod's Altar (if you chose to use it), Seahoff Occultist, Forbidden Alchemy and Bitter Ordeal.
With all of that being said, I have moved away from tutors after playing this style of deck for so long. Instead I use a tad bit of permission and a whole lot of solid draw, and just draw into my combo.
Ok, a couple things.
1. I suppose I have to kinda concede, your right in certain decks Bloodghast is better (*cough* Singelton formats *cough*). Outside of the vacuum of singleton formats, I honestly do believe Nether Traitor is far superior. (More on this later though)
2. You do raise a valid point about the mathematical implications on draws at least 1 land per "clamp". (but then again, what does mathematics have to do with a game thats partially governed by chance?) Let me as you something, Have you ever experienced Mana Flood or Mana Screw? Kind of bones your math, no?
3. Your wrong in your statement of "Nether Traitor only triggers off of combat, Innocent Blood and Fleshbag Marauder" (Unless like I said earlier we are talking about singleton formats). Once you have 2 Nether Traitors they can trigger off of each other, ergo You can "Clamp" as many times a turn equal to half your mana. So if you have your Bloodghast on turn 6, and I have 2 Neither Traitiors, lets assume you sac your Bloodghast, draw your cards, and drop a land, he comes back and you do it once more.
Assuming something like Grave Pact is out you just :
1. Spent 2 Mana
2. Lost 1 creature
3. Drew 4 cards
5. Made your opp, sac 2 creatures
you pass the turn, assuming I have 2 Nether Traitors, and haven't missed a land drop. :
1. Spent 4 mana
2. Lose 0 creature
3, Draw 4 cards
5. Made opp. sac 2 creatures.
The above example looks pretty fair. Well more than fair it makes Bloodghast look clearly better (half the mana cost, screw the creatures) but if I chose to in my example I could have do it one more time making my end of the figure look like :
1. Spent 6 mana
2. Lost 0 creature
3. Drew 6 cards
4. Made opp. sac 3 creatures.
Much like Skullclamp it's self the best part of Nether Traitor is as reusabe as you have mana to reuse him with (where in Bloodghast has that whole landfall thingy, and as Black players we can only play one land per turn...... like ever (excluding with the help of artifices, or fetch lands). So the most you'll EVER be able to use Bloodghast in one turn in this deck, is 2 and thats assuming you didnt sac the ass clown the turn before.
So did I do well explaining it?
P.S. Nether Traitor almost never triggers off combat.
I am filled with so MUCH rage. (nerd rage at that.) Nether Traitor would like a stern word with you my friend. Not only does he trigger more than once per turn, he's better with a non-land top deck.
Also he's utterly the tits with Phyrexian Alter. (thats a period, btw.)
Forget Bloodghast, and Reassembling Skeleton.
well it's not meant to connect simply turn sideways and sanctum it.