Been lurking this thread for several months now and I finally have time to finish up this rather long report from Regionals on 2/4 in San Diego hosted by At Ease Games. Went with this build of Grixis Reanimator to a 7-2 finish.
Made some last minute changes to my SB guide the previous night due to discovering several foils in the deck were curling dramatically and being able to cut to them reliably. Luckily I still had a nearly complete non-foil version of the deck, but it provoked some untested changes that came back to haunt me throughout the tournament.
R1 vs Naya Burn (0-2)
After getting paired up with my buddy Chris on Jund, we had to repair. Ended up getting paired against my other buddy Rob on Naya Burn (who I play every week at our local shop). Game 1 I'm on 2 lands and Looting away a Through the Breach; leaving with me Vengeance, no dudes, Izzet Charm, and a Bolt. I end up getting to 5 mana and draw Griselbrand, but can't get it in the grave in time before I die to Guide & 2 Swiftspears with Lava Spike and 2 Bolts.
Hadn't been happy with my recent performance against the deck and tried a new SB plan that went light on TTB and heavy on removal. This ended up being the wrong route to go and ended up just being overboarding. Mulled to 5 game 2 and ended up getting locked by an Eidolon and losing 0-2. Entire match took less than 20 minutes. Yup.
R2 vs 5C Zoo (2-1)
My opponent leads with something like an Ancient Ziggurat or Pillar of the Paruns, into Sylvan Caryatid, and I think to myself, "Okay, I got this." Not much to say, here. Emrakul did terrible things and we went to game 2, where I mulled to... 4? Still almost got there, but Siege Rhinos closed the game out for him. Game 3 I Emrakul him again and we're playing draw go for awhile. Finally get enough mana to activate Creeping Tar Pit and he rebuilt quick enough to start chaining Siege Rhinos again. I TTB in Griselbrand for the kill.
R3 vs Titanshift (2-0)
This match was weird. We both have terrible hands and start the match off with a mull to 5 each. He plays Search for Tomorrow and I realize this could probably go either way. I end up countering enough spells to slow him down until I buy time to start activating Desolate Lighthouse. This was the only time during the tournament that it really had a chance to shine. Eventually I find Griselbrand, and reanimate him on their end step. I draw enough cards to get Emrakul into play and attack for 22. Game 2 he mulls to 5 again but I'm pretty set up. Thoughtseize Snap Thoughtseize does serious work, and I eventually Emrakul him to death.
R4 vs Affinity (0-2)
I normally feel pretty good about this matchup, so it was unfortunate to lose game 1; my slow hand could not beat their fast hand. Game 2, I truly felt the pain of Desolate Lighthouse as it prevented what would have been a clutch Anger of the Gods. I never find the 5th mana source to TTB in Emrakul and I just die to Etched Champion beats.
At this point I'm 2-2 and need to win the next 5 rounds to have any hope of placing.
R5 vs Jund (2-1)
First time meeting Ryan Slone, whose name I recognized in the top 8 lists of several Legacy tournaments out here. I saw him beat my other friend earlier in the tournament so I know he's on Jund and that I'm in for a tough match.
Game 1 Jund does Jund things, rips my hand apart, and beats me down with 2CMC creatures. Game 2 we go back and forth enough that both our graves are pretty full, I'm holding Emrakul digging for a Through the Breach. He ticks up Liliana discarding Terminate and makes me discard Emrakul, at which point I have 0 cards in hand or grave. I topdeck Quicksilver Amulet, which he reads and says "Huh, that seems pretty good." I topdeck Griselbrand and pass. He tickets up Liliana again, and I Amulet in Griselbrand in response. He looks at the Terminate in his grave and laughs. I untap, draw, find Emrakul and TTB and a land, and 22 him.
Game 3 he brings back in Kolaghan's Command. Somehow he gets low on life (memory is fuzzy here, I think he's fetching and shocking aggressively) and Bolts become a real path to victory. I get in with a Griselbrand swing, putting him to 4. I play Collective Brutality choosing to drain and discard, while holding Bolt. He thinks hard, and Kommands, shocking me and making me discard. This would have set him up for the win next turn, but I show him the Bolt in response to Kommand and that's it.
R6 vs Merfolk (2-1)
This feels like one of my worst matchups, and I prepare myself to go home earlier than I was hoping to. He's on a mull to 5 and does nothing for what seems like 4 or 5 turns, but I end up with some awkward draws and find nothing while I'm digging, frantically, for any business. I never find it and die to fish beats.
Game 2 I bring in my new tech, Tasigur, but don't see it. I Emrakul him quickly and he scoops. Game 3 is one of the most insane matches of the day where I think I'm back on Grixis Control and I'm beating down with Creeping Tar Pit and Tasigur, burning fools out left and right. His team slowly shrinks as they chump Tasigur over and over. Tar Pit gets Spreading Seas'd. He plays a Lord and I kill it. Finds Mutavault and chumps Tasigur again. I Bolt him and he Dispels it. At this point he's got 3 cards in hand and I'm low on cards, myself, but it turns out his hand was full of just lands and eventually Tasigur closes it out. Tasigur, the Golden MVP.
R7 vs Esper Gifts (2-1)
Easily the coolest deck I faced all day, this one has Baral, Chief of Compliance, a ton of 1U counters, Lingering Souls, and Gifts / Unburial Rites. Eventually he's got a bunch of land and spirit tokens out, I push through TTB after it being remanded 3 turns in a row, but he has enough permanents to sacrifice to Emrakul that he doesn't care, chumps with a spirit, and kills me the next turn.
Game 2 is definitely more grindy and we're both playing control against each other. He doesn't find Baral this game, and I play Quicksilver Amulet after he taps out for Lingering Souls. He Surgicals my Vengeances on my draw step, but I drew the Emrakul, and put it in play while he's tapped out to avoid being blown out by Vendilion Clique (didn't know if he had it or not). He looks at Emrakul, says he has literally no way to deal with it, and scoops.
By the time game 2 ends, we have 5 minutes left in the round. I Emrakul him on turn 3 with Dispel backup and take the match with 2 minutes left on the clock.
R8 vs Affinity (2-0)
I'm 2 rounds away from finishing the swiss and have some weird second wind that pushes me to focus through how tired I am. I see I'm against Affinity again and am thankful for Fatal Push on Inkmoth. I believe I Snap Push another creature which buys me enough time to Griselbrand into Emrakul into a win.
Game 2 I change my SB plan up and don't overboard like in round 4, leaving in Remands and concentrating mostly on sweepers and taking only 1 TTB out as I'm on the draw. He tries to Blood Moon me but I Remand it, then Izzet Charm it the next turn when he recasts it. I Griselbrand him to 13 and set myself up for the win the next turn. He attacks with an Inkmoth, which I kill, and he passes leaving up Signal Pest and Springleaf Drum. I have enough gas in my hand that if I play TTB and it gets countered, I can still Looting into Vengeance on Emrakul the next turn anyway. I go for it, he looks at his life total, makes a sweeping motion with his hand and makes a sound like 'Yeah.' I put Emrakul in, he says, "Oh... I mean I had a response to that."
Awkward.
At this point I can't tell if he's trying to angle me or it was a legitimate misunderstanding. We've been making that motion the entire match to coincide with passing our turns. The judge gets called and starts to talk about backing the game up. I voice concerns as my opponent has information now that he previously didn't have. I mention the precedent that was set with the hand gesture when we'd pass the turn, and the judge rules in my favor that my opponent passed priority. He shows me the Spell Pierce and signs the slip. I show him my hand and tell him I would have had it the next turn anyway.
R9 vs Hatebears (2-0)
Last round. I lose the die roll and we resolve mulligans while we wait for the green light to start... only to get repaired. After a few minutes, we end up playing against each other, anyway, and I lose the die roll again. He leads with Razorverge Thicket into Vial, and I know I'm up against Hatebears. Never played against this match so I have to improvise. He gets an early Thalia, but I kill this as soon as I can so that I can go for it next turn. I face the terrifying choice of whether to fetch and win with TTB on Emrakul or get blown out by Arbiter from his Vial on 2 and lose. He doesn't have the Arbiter, and I nuke his board. He draws, passes, Tar Pit gets in to close it out and we go to game 2.
I believe he mulls to 6 on the play, and my hand is solid. He gets an early RIP out, which I don't have an answer for. It doesn't matter, because I have TTB and Emrakul again. He's got 2 Vials on 2 each, and I need to fetch for my 5th mana. I decide to go for it, again, and he doesn't have Arbiter nor Mindcensor, and I 15 him for the win due to him taking damage from Horizon Canopy damage all game.
I end up as the only 21 pointer to not make top 16 and come in 17th out of 237 players, breaking even on entry and gas money for the day.
---
The meta was crawling with Tron, though sadly I didn't play against a single one the entire day. Also would have liked to see how the Cheerios matchup is, though I didn't play against that, either. I did come away with some great observations from the day, however.
Skip FNM if there's a big tourney the next morning so that I can get a solid amount of sleep. Also, keep my window closed so that the bird that lives outside my window doesn't wake me up at 6am.
Printed out sideboard guides are incredibly useful and noticeably and objectively cut down on time and decision fatigue. Will continue to use these from now on.
Mis-assessed some of those sideboard plans and had to make adjustments partway through the tournament, which proved more successful.
Commitment to a deck yields real results. 4 months on this deck has given me more success than any other in Modern, and I still feel there's room to grow with it.
Winning the first several rounds is imperative for breakers good enough to get me placement above others with the same points I have; losing round 1 really did me in.
Card Choice Observations
Darkness (which I tried spontaneously for Burn, Merfolk, and Affinity) just wasn't as good as I thought it would be. I like this more in Ad Nauseum, or the Rakdos version of Reanimator.
Tasigur was fantastic, and I would absolutely keep him as a 1 of in the board vs quick aggro lists.
Painful Truths felt underwhelming vs Jund, especially since my build is more reactive and controlling. Never really wanted to tap out unless I was getting ready to win shortly thereafter. Would have been better as a 2nd Quicksilver Amulet, I think.
Nihil Spellbombs were okay, but this was mostly for Dredge. These used to be Surgicals and I definitely think those would have been the better choice.
Desolate Lighthouse was not what I wanted for this deck, and it caused color problems more than once. This would go back to being Blackcleave Cliffs #2 or Spirebluff Canal.
Vandalblast was fine, but this would have been better as Shattering Spree, especially considering it interacts better with Snapcaster Mage.
The single Snapcaster Mage was actually great all day, and I'd definitely continue to test it. It filled in a lot of holes and gave me versatility where I needed it.
2 basic Islands feels like too much; should have 2 Watery Graves so that I have 4 fetchable black sources. Sometimes you have to hardcast Griselbrand, but you only have 3 fetchable black sources and no Cliffs or Tar Pits.
Spell Pierce and Fatal Push were fine, but I could see them being cut for something else. Not in love with them.
Trying the Rakdos version again since it's been picking up in popularity. Did okay with the build last FNM, beating Burn and Tron 2-0, losing to BW Smallpox, and Infect. Never lost a single match to Infect with the Grixis version I've been tuning since October, so that felt bad. Probably need to adjust my playstyle, there.
Rafael Silva top 8'd another tournament here with a list very similar to mine, only he's running Tasigur main instead of Snap and only 1 Remand. I'll probably switch back to my controllish version after testing the Rakdos version for awhile, and try 2 Sleight of Hand again. I already miss playing at instant speed, and miss Serum Visions, but I'll keep at this version for awhile.
Also want to say that all of your discussion here has provided great insight into this archetype, so I'm appreciative of that. Any constructive feedback or questions are welcomed.
You're pretty quick to dismiss both of those. Have you actually played with them? I haven't tried out Jori yet, but she looks interesting and worth testing out. She may end up being nothing, but I'd rather find that out through testing than not giving her a chance in the first place.
Ascension is worth taking a closer look at. It's wrath proof. You can play it early with counter backup on turn 3-4. It's hard to remove for control. They'll be forced into pushing damage through to keep it from going live, and we should all know by now that mis-assignment of role loses games.
If we're talking about the mirror, a compact card like Luminarch Ascension is pretty hard to beat. I've seen this card completely take over control mirrors.
Also looking to test out Jori En in the board, as most control decks will take out the majority of removal against the creature light builds.
It's easy to think the deck has fallen out of popularity due to it simply being "not a good deck," but there are many other factors at play. The big ones I imagine are between a) the learning curve being much higher than other decks, b) mental fatigue is a thing and some players simply can't grind for hours on end without it affecting them, and c) new decks coming out and old UWR players want to innovate / try something new.
I enjoyed those stats from mtg goldfish. Very promising.
Good call on being able to get Prophet and Survival, but I still need 6 mana to evoke though. I guess I can always Pod into GAAIV if I need help casting Reveillark, then Pod Reveillark into some thing else just get it in the yard. Alright, that doesn't seem too bad.
No one is going for turn 2 wins in meta anyway. I like the ability to just end the game right then and there. Most of my wins come from establishing hard locks and my opponents scooping. Being able to end it objectively is nice, especially if a game goes to time.
Opposition only untaps. Also, games where Willbreaker is even relevant should be few and far between. Remember that once you have Survival + 6 mana, the game is over and you've won. Only when you think your opponents can disrupt the combo kill should you opt for the control role.
Don't try to win big. Just win. Controlling every critter on the board only lasts until the next Wrath. Prophet means you can evoke Reveillark in response to any problem or go for Azami first to just massively outdraw your opponents.
You mean "Opposition only taps?" My point was once you target an opponent's untapped creature with Opposition, Willbreaker's ability triggers, and you gain control of that creature before Opposition resolves. This means you can use the new creature to steal another, and chain a bunch of steal effects together. Not saying this is priority #1 or anything, just that this is an option depending on the board state at the time.
My list is heavy prison, and I haven't explored the combo wins nearly as much. Seems compact enough to fit in, though. That said, I often find I don't have 6 mana AND Survival / Fauna Shaman online. What's the average turn where you usually win the game?
I think the best combo is just to make and Survival and Fauna Shaman lethal via the Reveillark combo: Reveillark + Body Double + Mirror Entity/sac outlet. It gives you infi mana, infi bounce, and infi cards off something like Azami. The second best combo is just lobbing a random Orb effect after you've developed your board in some way. The third best is Birthing Pod kills Derevi for Academy Rector and then kills Rector for Prophet of Kruphix + Opposition/Rising Waters. The fourth best is Beastmaster Ascension + turning critters sideways.
Thanks for the feedback here. I've considered the Body Double / Reveillark combo before, actually. Do you ever find these pieces are clunky without each other, or are universally useful when drawn by themselves?
Good call on Birthing Pod on Rector, btw. I've been wanting to add Opposition into my list for awhile, and this is yet another reason to do so. I also like how you can Pod Rector into Opposition and Willbreaker and steal just about every creature on the table so long as they're untapped. This would be especially useful if a problem creature has a Sword of Feast and Famine on it, since I can't target it with Derevi's ability and steal it with Willbreaker; Opposition would give me a way around that. I'll try it out and let you know how it goes, but I imagine it'll be fantastic.
I would include at least one combo kill. Stasis + Forsaken City is also markedly weaker than just putting in something like Reconnaissance to give your critters vigilance.
I'll try out Aura of Silence again, but I suspect that it's too little, too late.
I like Aura because it's a third out to Humility, and makes it harder to cast. No one's figured out how good this card is at my shop yet, but I imagine once these tournaments get more popular, it will. Also, it's good vs Daretti, Brago, and some of the reanimator decks like Mimeo / Karador. It's been good for me so far.
I've been having good results at my LGS FNM with Derevi after a 2 year Magic hiatus. Just marathon'd through this whole thread, as well as the one by Swift2210, and the primer by Glix from Top Commanders, to familiarize myself with the deck and the communities findings.
Azami and Glen Elendra Archmage are the most recent editions, and haven't been tested yet, but I'm hopeful for them being good. Want to fit in Luminarch Ascension at some point, and possibly Opposition. Right now the deck feels very tight though. Any feedback here is welcomed. Thanks!
I'm also running rituals in my Multiplayer list and I think they definitely have promise in 1v1. Also, LED is insane and should easily be in this deck.
If you get Daretti out aggressively on turn 1 or 2, he has a much higher chance of living and making those cards that are 'too dependent' on Daretti more viable.
This is interesting.
I think we need to ask ourselves in which matchups we want to play Daretti on turn 2-3 using rituals / LED.
Aggro = yes on turn 2 ; it makes Daretti more survivable. However you'll only be able to use the +2 (no artifact) and a Council Judgement / Vindicate / Maelstrom Pulse will still stop your plan. LED is still bad because your general doesn't win the game, unlike Griselbrand, Wanderer or Mimeoplasm. no on turn 3 ; we can accomplish that with a mana rock, and at that point, they can generally destroy Daretti with 1 attack.
Midrange = same.
Control = no on turns 2 and 3 ; while it's cool to dig your deck, card disadvantage will lose you the game. I don't want to discard my hand with LED and see a Force Spike pointed at Daretti. However a t2 Blood Moon could have some potential.
Combo = yes on turns 2 and 3 ; it allows to dig faster for an answer and they have generally few ways to interact. If we used LED, it's generally because we had no way to stop them in hand, so who cares?
My conclusion:
LED is only playable against combo. Our general is basically a way to create small, incremental Card Advantage, so generating massive Card Disadvantage to put him in play doesn't seem very good.
Rituals are playable in every matchup, but are dead draws late game (worse than lands). They also can't replace lands during deckbuilding, which means that they replace answers.
I agree with some of these points, but I'd like to clarify a few points.
First off, LED is there to enable broken early game plays. You're not obligated to crack it for mana, and it offers you, at worst, an artifact to weld out for something else for 0, or something to reveal to Metalworker, etc. I had a game where I played turn one City of Traitors, mana rock, LED, Daretti, weld the mana rock out for Ward of Bones, go. This was in a multiplayer game, but all the cards could apply to DC. Needless to say, I had that game locked up. You could also do a similar play with LED or rituals and Sandstone Oracle, refilling your entire hand, or playing a first turn Trinisphere, the list goes on. LED is also good when you need Daretti for welding, but you don't have another discard outlet available. LED lets you do both in the same turn, in some cases. You can also crack LED in response to Memory Jar and have a higher amount of mana for playing the cards in that hand.
Second, the rituals aren't as dead late game as you think they would be. They have a surprise factor where your opponent may never know how much mana you have access to in a given turn, and thus influence their plays. I've played a game breaking Wildfire or sweeper 1-2 turns earlier against aggro because of rituals, and that's not uncommon at all. Yes, investing multiple rituals into a spell only for it to be countered sucks, but that's what playing vs. control is all about. Combo has been fighting that battle for years, and it's no different here; our bombs are just in the form of lock pieces or sweepers. Most of the time, they won't counter the ritual, so if you have a REB or Pyro in hand, it could give you the extra mana you need to push a bomb through. The rituals really just offer more lines of play for you. I was skeptical at first, thinking they were too gutsy, but they're not.
Third, the rituals are supported by more aggressive mana rocks like Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, and Jeweled Amulet (yes, this is actually necessary). The first three makes turn one Trinisphere or Blood Moon more consistent, and all of them make turn 2 Daretti more likely. Even playing turn one Cursed Totem or Defense Grid, or turn 2 Trinisphere or Blood Moon can be game breaking, and the rituals and cheap mana rocks help that. Simian Spirit Guide can power out Daretti turn 1, turn REB / Pyro into a red Force of Will, etc.
I'm slowly transitioning this list over to DC and trying to find the right balance of everything. I'll keep you guys updated with my playtesting results, but I suggest you give these a try and tell me what you think. It's a very different direction for Daretti than what's been established as conventional, here, and that's exciting to me, personally.
Yeah, I wish we stuck to the topic, which is Duel Commander. I like Memory Jar a lot and I don't think it gives you just a big turn. It gives you card to play and feeds the graveyard with the rest, for Daretti. Alhammarret's Archive seems bad because it only works with a resolved Daretti, which in Duel Commander is not that simple.
I'm also running rituals in my Multiplayer list and I think they definitely have promise in 1v1. Also, LED is insane and should easily be in this deck.
If you get Daretti out aggressively on turn 1 or 2, he has a much higher chance of living and making those cards that are 'too dependent' on Daretti more viable.
Also, Archive isn't Daretti dependent; you still have Looting, Wild Guess, Tormenting Voice, Staffic, Coercive Portal, etc.
So right now I'm playing Coercitive Portal and Staff of Nin as CA engines, but I'm looking for a third one. After testing Mind's Eye for a while, I'm not convinced because 1) it costs mana and 2) it only draws on the opponent's turn.
Does someone know a better card (ideally an artifact)?
Also looking for a good group of competitive players. There's a local shop I go to that does Commander for FNM with the multiplayer banned list, but it's still very casual / people get upset / etc.
Has anyone tested with Serum Powder? I've been having good results with it in aggressively finding more consistent / favorable hands. Worst case scenario it's a mana rock for 3 that can be welded out by Daretti or Goblin Welder later on.
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Snapcaster Mage
Instants (17)
1 Fatal Push
4 Goryo's Vengeance
3 Izzet Charm
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
4 Through the Breach
Sorceries (10)
2 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Serum Visions
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Desolate Lighthouse
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Darkness
2 Dispel
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Painful Truths
1 Quicksilver Amulet
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vandalblast
Made some last minute changes to my SB guide the previous night due to discovering several foils in the deck were curling dramatically and being able to cut to them reliably. Luckily I still had a nearly complete non-foil version of the deck, but it provoked some untested changes that came back to haunt me throughout the tournament.
R1 vs Naya Burn (0-2)
After getting paired up with my buddy Chris on Jund, we had to repair. Ended up getting paired against my other buddy Rob on Naya Burn (who I play every week at our local shop). Game 1 I'm on 2 lands and Looting away a Through the Breach; leaving with me Vengeance, no dudes, Izzet Charm, and a Bolt. I end up getting to 5 mana and draw Griselbrand, but can't get it in the grave in time before I die to Guide & 2 Swiftspears with Lava Spike and 2 Bolts.
Hadn't been happy with my recent performance against the deck and tried a new SB plan that went light on TTB and heavy on removal. This ended up being the wrong route to go and ended up just being overboarding. Mulled to 5 game 2 and ended up getting locked by an Eidolon and losing 0-2. Entire match took less than 20 minutes. Yup.
R2 vs 5C Zoo (2-1)
My opponent leads with something like an Ancient Ziggurat or Pillar of the Paruns, into Sylvan Caryatid, and I think to myself, "Okay, I got this." Not much to say, here. Emrakul did terrible things and we went to game 2, where I mulled to... 4? Still almost got there, but Siege Rhinos closed the game out for him. Game 3 I Emrakul him again and we're playing draw go for awhile. Finally get enough mana to activate Creeping Tar Pit and he rebuilt quick enough to start chaining Siege Rhinos again. I TTB in Griselbrand for the kill.
R3 vs Titanshift (2-0)
This match was weird. We both have terrible hands and start the match off with a mull to 5 each. He plays Search for Tomorrow and I realize this could probably go either way. I end up countering enough spells to slow him down until I buy time to start activating Desolate Lighthouse. This was the only time during the tournament that it really had a chance to shine. Eventually I find Griselbrand, and reanimate him on their end step. I draw enough cards to get Emrakul into play and attack for 22. Game 2 he mulls to 5 again but I'm pretty set up. Thoughtseize Snap Thoughtseize does serious work, and I eventually Emrakul him to death.
R4 vs Affinity (0-2)
I normally feel pretty good about this matchup, so it was unfortunate to lose game 1; my slow hand could not beat their fast hand. Game 2, I truly felt the pain of Desolate Lighthouse as it prevented what would have been a clutch Anger of the Gods. I never find the 5th mana source to TTB in Emrakul and I just die to Etched Champion beats.
At this point I'm 2-2 and need to win the next 5 rounds to have any hope of placing.
R5 vs Jund (2-1)
First time meeting Ryan Slone, whose name I recognized in the top 8 lists of several Legacy tournaments out here. I saw him beat my other friend earlier in the tournament so I know he's on Jund and that I'm in for a tough match.
Game 1 Jund does Jund things, rips my hand apart, and beats me down with 2CMC creatures. Game 2 we go back and forth enough that both our graves are pretty full, I'm holding Emrakul digging for a Through the Breach. He ticks up Liliana discarding Terminate and makes me discard Emrakul, at which point I have 0 cards in hand or grave. I topdeck Quicksilver Amulet, which he reads and says "Huh, that seems pretty good." I topdeck Griselbrand and pass. He tickets up Liliana again, and I Amulet in Griselbrand in response. He looks at the Terminate in his grave and laughs. I untap, draw, find Emrakul and TTB and a land, and 22 him.
Game 3 he brings back in Kolaghan's Command. Somehow he gets low on life (memory is fuzzy here, I think he's fetching and shocking aggressively) and Bolts become a real path to victory. I get in with a Griselbrand swing, putting him to 4. I play Collective Brutality choosing to drain and discard, while holding Bolt. He thinks hard, and Kommands, shocking me and making me discard. This would have set him up for the win next turn, but I show him the Bolt in response to Kommand and that's it.
R6 vs Merfolk (2-1)
This feels like one of my worst matchups, and I prepare myself to go home earlier than I was hoping to. He's on a mull to 5 and does nothing for what seems like 4 or 5 turns, but I end up with some awkward draws and find nothing while I'm digging, frantically, for any business. I never find it and die to fish beats.
Game 2 I bring in my new tech, Tasigur, but don't see it. I Emrakul him quickly and he scoops. Game 3 is one of the most insane matches of the day where I think I'm back on Grixis Control and I'm beating down with Creeping Tar Pit and Tasigur, burning fools out left and right. His team slowly shrinks as they chump Tasigur over and over. Tar Pit gets Spreading Seas'd. He plays a Lord and I kill it. Finds Mutavault and chumps Tasigur again. I Bolt him and he Dispels it. At this point he's got 3 cards in hand and I'm low on cards, myself, but it turns out his hand was full of just lands and eventually Tasigur closes it out. Tasigur, the Golden MVP.
R7 vs Esper Gifts (2-1)
Easily the coolest deck I faced all day, this one has Baral, Chief of Compliance, a ton of 1U counters, Lingering Souls, and Gifts / Unburial Rites. Eventually he's got a bunch of land and spirit tokens out, I push through TTB after it being remanded 3 turns in a row, but he has enough permanents to sacrifice to Emrakul that he doesn't care, chumps with a spirit, and kills me the next turn.
Game 2 is definitely more grindy and we're both playing control against each other. He doesn't find Baral this game, and I play Quicksilver Amulet after he taps out for Lingering Souls. He Surgicals my Vengeances on my draw step, but I drew the Emrakul, and put it in play while he's tapped out to avoid being blown out by Vendilion Clique (didn't know if he had it or not). He looks at Emrakul, says he has literally no way to deal with it, and scoops.
By the time game 2 ends, we have 5 minutes left in the round. I Emrakul him on turn 3 with Dispel backup and take the match with 2 minutes left on the clock.
R8 vs Affinity (2-0)
I'm 2 rounds away from finishing the swiss and have some weird second wind that pushes me to focus through how tired I am. I see I'm against Affinity again and am thankful for Fatal Push on Inkmoth. I believe I Snap Push another creature which buys me enough time to Griselbrand into Emrakul into a win.
Game 2 I change my SB plan up and don't overboard like in round 4, leaving in Remands and concentrating mostly on sweepers and taking only 1 TTB out as I'm on the draw. He tries to Blood Moon me but I Remand it, then Izzet Charm it the next turn when he recasts it. I Griselbrand him to 13 and set myself up for the win the next turn. He attacks with an Inkmoth, which I kill, and he passes leaving up Signal Pest and Springleaf Drum. I have enough gas in my hand that if I play TTB and it gets countered, I can still Looting into Vengeance on Emrakul the next turn anyway. I go for it, he looks at his life total, makes a sweeping motion with his hand and makes a sound like 'Yeah.' I put Emrakul in, he says, "Oh... I mean I had a response to that."
Awkward.
At this point I can't tell if he's trying to angle me or it was a legitimate misunderstanding. We've been making that motion the entire match to coincide with passing our turns. The judge gets called and starts to talk about backing the game up. I voice concerns as my opponent has information now that he previously didn't have. I mention the precedent that was set with the hand gesture when we'd pass the turn, and the judge rules in my favor that my opponent passed priority. He shows me the Spell Pierce and signs the slip. I show him my hand and tell him I would have had it the next turn anyway.
R9 vs Hatebears (2-0)
Last round. I lose the die roll and we resolve mulligans while we wait for the green light to start... only to get repaired. After a few minutes, we end up playing against each other, anyway, and I lose the die roll again. He leads with Razorverge Thicket into Vial, and I know I'm up against Hatebears. Never played against this match so I have to improvise. He gets an early Thalia, but I kill this as soon as I can so that I can go for it next turn. I face the terrifying choice of whether to fetch and win with TTB on Emrakul or get blown out by Arbiter from his Vial on 2 and lose. He doesn't have the Arbiter, and I nuke his board. He draws, passes, Tar Pit gets in to close it out and we go to game 2.
I believe he mulls to 6 on the play, and my hand is solid. He gets an early RIP out, which I don't have an answer for. It doesn't matter, because I have TTB and Emrakul again. He's got 2 Vials on 2 each, and I need to fetch for my 5th mana. I decide to go for it, again, and he doesn't have Arbiter nor Mindcensor, and I 15 him for the win due to him taking damage from Horizon Canopy damage all game.
I end up as the only 21 pointer to not make top 16 and come in 17th out of 237 players, breaking even on entry and gas money for the day.
---
The meta was crawling with Tron, though sadly I didn't play against a single one the entire day. Also would have liked to see how the Cheerios matchup is, though I didn't play against that, either. I did come away with some great observations from the day, however.
Trying the Rakdos version again since it's been picking up in popularity. Did okay with the build last FNM, beating Burn and Tron 2-0, losing to BW Smallpox, and Infect. Never lost a single match to Infect with the Grixis version I've been tuning since October, so that felt bad. Probably need to adjust my playstyle, there.
Rafael Silva top 8'd another tournament here with a list very similar to mine, only he's running Tasigur main instead of Snap and only 1 Remand. I'll probably switch back to my controllish version after testing the Rakdos version for awhile, and try 2 Sleight of Hand again. I already miss playing at instant speed, and miss Serum Visions, but I'll keep at this version for awhile.
Also want to say that all of your discussion here has provided great insight into this archetype, so I'm appreciative of that. Any constructive feedback or questions are welcomed.
Ascension is worth taking a closer look at. It's wrath proof. You can play it early with counter backup on turn 3-4. It's hard to remove for control. They'll be forced into pushing damage through to keep it from going live, and we should all know by now that mis-assignment of role loses games.
Also looking to test out Jori En in the board, as most control decks will take out the majority of removal against the creature light builds.
It's easy to think the deck has fallen out of popularity due to it simply being "not a good deck," but there are many other factors at play. The big ones I imagine are between a) the learning curve being much higher than other decks, b) mental fatigue is a thing and some players simply can't grind for hours on end without it affecting them, and c) new decks coming out and old UWR players want to innovate / try something new.
I enjoyed those stats from mtg goldfish. Very promising.
No one is going for turn 2 wins in meta anyway. I like the ability to just end the game right then and there. Most of my wins come from establishing hard locks and my opponents scooping. Being able to end it objectively is nice, especially if a game goes to time.
You mean "Opposition only taps?" My point was once you target an opponent's untapped creature with Opposition, Willbreaker's ability triggers, and you gain control of that creature before Opposition resolves. This means you can use the new creature to steal another, and chain a bunch of steal effects together. Not saying this is priority #1 or anything, just that this is an option depending on the board state at the time.
My list is heavy prison, and I haven't explored the combo wins nearly as much. Seems compact enough to fit in, though. That said, I often find I don't have 6 mana AND Survival / Fauna Shaman online. What's the average turn where you usually win the game?
Thanks for the feedback here. I've considered the Body Double / Reveillark combo before, actually. Do you ever find these pieces are clunky without each other, or are universally useful when drawn by themselves?
Good call on Birthing Pod on Rector, btw. I've been wanting to add Opposition into my list for awhile, and this is yet another reason to do so. I also like how you can Pod Rector into Opposition and Willbreaker and steal just about every creature on the table so long as they're untapped. This would be especially useful if a problem creature has a Sword of Feast and Famine on it, since I can't target it with Derevi's ability and steal it with Willbreaker; Opposition would give me a way around that. I'll try it out and let you know how it goes, but I imagine it'll be fantastic.
I like Aura because it's a third out to Humility, and makes it harder to cast. No one's figured out how good this card is at my shop yet, but I imagine once these tournaments get more popular, it will. Also, it's good vs Daretti, Brago, and some of the reanimator decks like Mimeo / Karador. It's been good for me so far.
What combo kill would you recommend? DEN?
This is my list as it stands now: http://deckstats.net/decks/53363/374755-derevi-prison-competitive-
Azami and Glen Elendra Archmage are the most recent editions, and haven't been tested yet, but I'm hopeful for them being good. Want to fit in Luminarch Ascension at some point, and possibly Opposition. Right now the deck feels very tight though. Any feedback here is welcomed. Thanks!
I agree with some of these points, but I'd like to clarify a few points.
First off, LED is there to enable broken early game plays. You're not obligated to crack it for mana, and it offers you, at worst, an artifact to weld out for something else for 0, or something to reveal to Metalworker, etc. I had a game where I played turn one City of Traitors, mana rock, LED, Daretti, weld the mana rock out for Ward of Bones, go. This was in a multiplayer game, but all the cards could apply to DC. Needless to say, I had that game locked up. You could also do a similar play with LED or rituals and Sandstone Oracle, refilling your entire hand, or playing a first turn Trinisphere, the list goes on. LED is also good when you need Daretti for welding, but you don't have another discard outlet available. LED lets you do both in the same turn, in some cases. You can also crack LED in response to Memory Jar and have a higher amount of mana for playing the cards in that hand.
Second, the rituals aren't as dead late game as you think they would be. They have a surprise factor where your opponent may never know how much mana you have access to in a given turn, and thus influence their plays. I've played a game breaking Wildfire or sweeper 1-2 turns earlier against aggro because of rituals, and that's not uncommon at all. Yes, investing multiple rituals into a spell only for it to be countered sucks, but that's what playing vs. control is all about. Combo has been fighting that battle for years, and it's no different here; our bombs are just in the form of lock pieces or sweepers. Most of the time, they won't counter the ritual, so if you have a REB or Pyro in hand, it could give you the extra mana you need to push a bomb through. The rituals really just offer more lines of play for you. I was skeptical at first, thinking they were too gutsy, but they're not.
Third, the rituals are supported by more aggressive mana rocks like Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, and Jeweled Amulet (yes, this is actually necessary). The first three makes turn one Trinisphere or Blood Moon more consistent, and all of them make turn 2 Daretti more likely. Even playing turn one Cursed Totem or Defense Grid, or turn 2 Trinisphere or Blood Moon can be game breaking, and the rituals and cheap mana rocks help that. Simian Spirit Guide can power out Daretti turn 1, turn REB / Pyro into a red Force of Will, etc.
I'm slowly transitioning this list over to DC and trying to find the right balance of everything. I'll keep you guys updated with my playtesting results, but I suggest you give these a try and tell me what you think. It's a very different direction for Daretti than what's been established as conventional, here, and that's exciting to me, personally.
I'm also running rituals in my Multiplayer list and I think they definitely have promise in 1v1. Also, LED is insane and should easily be in this deck.
If you get Daretti out aggressively on turn 1 or 2, he has a much higher chance of living and making those cards that are 'too dependent' on Daretti more viable.
Also, Archive isn't Daretti dependent; you still have Looting, Wild Guess, Tormenting Voice, Staffic, Coercive Portal, etc.
Got a link to your current list? I've been using Alhammarrets Archive and love it.
Why didn't you like Jar? Same reasons as Wheel?
Whereabouts are you?
Thoughts?