Actually, a neat draw engine for this deck might be Clue tokens. And a neat win condition would be Mechanized Production. Trail of Evidence is a good way to continually produce Clues as you cast Fogs, and you can sacrifice Clue tokens as necessary to keep yourself alive until you get to cast your big Clue producers (Confirm Suspicions/Second Harvest)
I agree that Heart of Kiran + Planeswalkers is going to be busted. I considered 3 mana Nissa for my build but wanted to try to fit Liliana in just because Liliana is going to give more staying power versus control plus the -2/-1 is pretty good against other aggro decks. The plants from Nissa are pretty useless without her pump ability. Her pump ability is good but our creatures are already so fat that it's kind of a win more. Lili ult is GG for control, which is going to be our worst enemy as a midrange aggro deck. That said, I'm not sure the mana works yet, but in my build above I've got 19 black sources including Attune with Aether.
I think if you're going to run Rampager you need to be able to make more energy than your list does. (I would at least up the Brawler count to 4) You want to be able to stick that guy on T2 or T3 at the latest. Rampager can also crew Heart even if you don't have the energy (crew with it's effect on the stack). Rampager is the best reason to run the energy shell IMO.
I really really like Arlinn Kord with Heart as it enables Heart to come in as a 6/6 flying vigilance haste (assuming the Kord is unflipped of course). That's a beatdown. Kord can also deal direct damage to the opponent (on the flip side). It really hasn't seen much play due to the presence of Emrakrul/Spider decks pre-bans, but now I think it's going to be half-decent.
Key to this format is going to be beating the ComboCat deck, Harnassed Lightning can help but the deck needs another solid removal spell for the Cat. Unlicensed Disintegration gets us there. I'm running Scrapheap Scrounger in my build (list is above) to give 8 artifacts to help activate Disintegration damage. Scrounger also has staying power and can crew Heart. Plus a 3/2 for 2 is aggressive.
Haven't built the board yet but guarantee copies of Lost Legacy and Transgress the Mind. Lost Legacy shuts down the ComboCat deck and forces them to play more counterspells. I expect Revolutionary Rebuff out of the board for them (if they don't maindeck it). This is where an early elephant really hurts them as we can beat down while they sit on a handful of countermagic. Even Yahenni's Expertise could be viable given that we have a good number of 4 toughness creatures, Planeswalkers, and Hearts.
I'm buying the Jund idea, mainly because of the interaction between Heart of Kiran+Liliana, the Last Hope. While that combo would work in other decks, it works well in an energy shell because the deck's other creatures can easily crew the Heart.
I'm really confused on how this deck actually works. Do you keep hands that are 7 lands? Odds are, you're going to draw 7 lands each game, do you just mulligan aggressively to get the cards you need? With out Molten Vortex this deck isn't really doing anything, and there are only 3 copies of it and no tutor. What happens when you never draw Vortex, do you just loose? What happens if you have to mul to 4-5 cards every game to get vortx in your starting hand, but then never draw fevered visions, do you just run out of gas? You say this deck is competitive against Bant CoCo, but there's literally only 3 cards in the deck that are even capable of removing creatures, am I missing something?
Actually, your odds of drawing a 7 land hand are only 5%, so it doesn't happen that often. Yes, you mulligan a 7-land hand for sure. In order to win you need to draw a Vortex, Visions, or Sensation in each hand (or at least a Tormenting Voice). This makes me suspect that the deck should actually have the 4th Vortex and maybe another Voice, but it would come at the expense of Wails (maybe right?) Wail really helps the Thermo-Thing and GW tokens matchups, but it may be right to sideboard some copies of it. Keep in mind that while you are running 40 lands, a large number of those lands actually do something, such make tokens or attack.
While the deck can beat Bant Company (I've done it), G1 the matchup is bad. Radiant Flames helps a lot, especially since they're going to Spell Queller your Visions or Crawling Sensation. Crawling Sensation is the key to winning the matchup as it allows you to make lots of insects to block their guys with, while Vortex+Insects can take out their 3 toughness creatures, and Vortex alone can kill Selfless Spirit and Duskwatch Recruiter.
On the otherhand, most control matchups are near unlosable. Fevered Visions destroys their planeswalkers and slowly overwhelms them or you end up reclamationing for a whole bunch of lands which becomes lethal. Kitty-Pact is the exception, as their combo can come out fast enough to be a credible threat. You have the Naturalize in the board.
As pbharris3 posted, the key card really is Crawling Sensation, not so much Vortex. The ability to make 2 insects per turn (which is normal with your sac lands and Vortexes) while filling the grave for Splendid Reclamation, enables you to survive in order to overwhelm your opponent with all of your lands. It is not abnormal to have 18-20 lands in play with this deck, or to activate three Wandering Fumaroles in a given turn. There have been countless games where I've cracked two Foundry of the Consuls to make four tokens and then activated Westvale Abbey all in the same turn (this requires 18 lands), saccing the four tokens and the insect from Crawling Sensation. It is something to behold.
Testing shows that the Temur version is the clear winner. The Temur version is capable of beating Tier 1 decks such as Bant Company, and with the latest improvements doesn't just roll over to UR spells.
In the Jund version, Retreat to Hagra directly competes with Molten Vortex, and Molten Vortex is just a better card. It combines well with Fevered Visions and Frog to just beat your opponent down. Frog is more expensive than Fevered Visions, but has a better payoff. Too often the Frog is a victim of a Transgress the Mind, Ruinous Path, or Reflector Mage. It just isn't as good as Fevered Visions.
Temur has two manlands, Jund only has one. Fumaroles can attack for 4, this is very relevant many games.
One card that I did manage to break out and find was quite good in the deck is Warping Wail. The ability to counter a sorcery is very key since Languish and Tragic Arrogance are very good against the deck. Also, making a 1/1 or exiling a creature like a Selfless Spirit isn't horrible.
Also want to note that I swapped the Magmatic Insights back for the Tormenting Voices. Oftentimes, you want to be able to discard that extra Molten Vortex or other spell so you can draw more lands.
You are not trying to nickle and dime with Hagra. You do that with your other cards.
Sure, but in reality you don't often Reclamation for more than 5-6. Crawling sensation comes down T3, and by T5-T6 you're ready to cast Reclamation to turn the tide of the game in your favor. You can't just hold Reclamation against many decks because:
A) They're running maindeck discard like Transgress or TkS
B) You need the lands in order to start making creatures
I feel Eldritch Evolution could be the way to go. (mostly just because I want to throw that in something haha)
Unfortunately my list has no other creatures to sacrifice.
I tried Retreat to Hagra - it was OK but not amazing. It kind of conflicts with Vortex because you can't both play your lands and pitch them too. It does work well with lands like Evolving Wilds and Blighted Woodlands and you can nickle and dime your opponent to death, but this is not really a winning line most games. You really want to drop Crawling Sensation or Frog+Vortex or Fevered Visions+Vortex.
Still working out the sideboard and whether or not the Jund version is better. The Jund version just might be better, the frog was surprisingly good and it forces your opponent to keep in removal spells which will end up being irrelevant most of the time.
Yeah, I think GRB is the best way to go for this. Fevered Visions is nice, but The Gitrog Monster will probably be better. With all the free card draw, you should be able to combo out. I also feel like Mina and Denn, Wildborn could be helpful too. Not only does it give Gitrog some much needed trample, but it feeds lands back to the hand so they can be discarded with Molten Vortex again.
Part of the advantage of this deck is that it blanks your opponent's removal for the better part. I beat A LOT of control decks the other night. Fevered Visions owns control. Gitrog Monster plays right into their game plan. Mina and Denn is interesting but it's probably going to die and trample is mostly irrelevant. Retreat to Hagra definitely fits the gameplan and I may try a version out with that if I can wrap my head around the exact build.
Edited to say that Fevered Visions is critical to draw you cards. Being that you have 40 lands, you are hungry for gas most games and welcome the extra draws. Especially while the extra cards are damaging your opponents.
I piloted the deck to an 8-3 record on MTGO last night, including a 4-1 Friendly League and a 3-2 Competitive League.
I lost to 4-color emerge, and twice to thermo-thing. Thermo-thing is a bad matchup and the sideboard should be adjusted for it.
I agree with Magmatic Insight, seems strictly better than Tormenting Voice. I did think about Retreat to Hagra, but that would mean playing/splashing black. This is a good idea worth trying though. You often win games without casting Splendid Reclamation. Just Molten Vortex + Fevered Visions and 40 lands is enough to kill most opponents.
Also, I don't think you want to mess too much with the land count. You absolutely need somewhere around 40 lands for this deck to work properly. Otherwise your Vortexes and Reclamations become useless. Plus you need to hit Crawling Sensation every turn. (Sensation is amazing btw - remember that you can get it's ability on your opponents turn easily by sacrificing Foundry or Evolving Wilds, or pitching to Vortex)
Molten Vortex + Crawling Sensation + Fevered Visions + Lots of Lands = lots of insects and damage. Splendid Reclamation brings all of your lands back and allows you to make a Prince or attack with manlands to win the game easily.
I haven't had a chance to test Eldritch Evolution (or play any Modern recently), but it may just turn out that the card isn't any good.
If it does get countered or they have an answer for your Architect then it is a 2 for 1, which is bad.
On the other hand, it does enable turn 3 kills more often. It might be a valuable sideboard card for matchups where we want to combo as quickly as possible (i.e. Affinity), and that is that. I don't see it being good against decks that interact a lot like Grixis or Jeskai.
The new Eldritch Evolution card from Eldritch Moon says hi to this deck. At least in my mana-dork build, this is going to help me hit T3 combo a lot more.
I'm wondering about our Matchup against lands. In my are a there are two lands players and one will destroy me but the other one just loses to me. Do we just hope to remove their Loams? How do we fight such a resilient strategy?
Pretty sure we're unfavored against Lands. I'm playing Lands right now and the things I fear are 1) Fast Combo or 2) Extremely fast aggro like Burn (which has Price of Progress). Anything in between (especially mid range) I don't fear.
The reason is our clock is too slow and a few Wastelands and a DRS is not going to do it. If your game plan is to get rid of my Loams (and I know you're playing DRS) I just save a cycle land to get my Loam back. Jund doesn't have a fast clock so I don't have to play that aggressively. Especially when a single Maze of Ith or Punishing Fire pretty much slows us down significantly. There's also the instant win with Dark Depths/Stage, which we don't really have an answer for.
I've gone to sideboarding Blood Moon and mainboarding Diabolic Edict for the Marit Lage. Blood Moon is also good against Eldrazi and a handful of other matchups. Edict is also very useful in other matchups - it's good against True Name Nemesis, Reality Smasher and Nimble Mongoose to name a few. Moon does force you to build your manabase around it and turns off your punishing fire combo, so those are caveats to consider. Yet it is worth it for hosing two major decks in the format that are seeing a lot of play right now (and punishing fire is bad against both those decks)
Has anyone ever considered Painful Truths in this deck? I'm going to run a version tomorrow that runs it along with Huntmaster of the Fells (as opposed to Bloodbraid Elf, which is bad with Truths). Huntmaster offsets the life loss from Truths and provides an additional Wolf so you have something left when they (inevitably) swords or bolt your Huntmaster away. Plus, some kind of lifegain would be very nice for the burn matchup (where you are siding out your painful truths)
4c "Mechanized" Fog
3 Encircling Fissure
4 Repel the Abominable
3 Fumigate
4 Fevered Visions
4 Trail of Evidence
2 Second Harvest
3 Mechanized Production
4 Confirm Suspicions
3 Torrential Gearhulk
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Cinder Glade
3 Fortified Village
1 Port Town
3 Prairie Stream
2 Forest
2 Plains
3 Island
1 Mountain
I think if you're going to run Rampager you need to be able to make more energy than your list does. (I would at least up the Brawler count to 4) You want to be able to stick that guy on T2 or T3 at the latest. Rampager can also crew Heart even if you don't have the energy (crew with it's effect on the stack). Rampager is the best reason to run the energy shell IMO.
I really really like Arlinn Kord with Heart as it enables Heart to come in as a 6/6 flying vigilance haste (assuming the Kord is unflipped of course). That's a beatdown. Kord can also deal direct damage to the opponent (on the flip side). It really hasn't seen much play due to the presence of Emrakrul/Spider decks pre-bans, but now I think it's going to be half-decent.
Key to this format is going to be beating the ComboCat deck, Harnassed Lightning can help but the deck needs another solid removal spell for the Cat. Unlicensed Disintegration gets us there. I'm running Scrapheap Scrounger in my build (list is above) to give 8 artifacts to help activate Disintegration damage. Scrounger also has staying power and can crew Heart. Plus a 3/2 for 2 is aggressive.
Haven't built the board yet but guarantee copies of Lost Legacy and Transgress the Mind. Lost Legacy shuts down the ComboCat deck and forces them to play more counterspells. I expect Revolutionary Rebuff out of the board for them (if they don't maindeck it). This is where an early elephant really hurts them as we can beat down while they sit on a handful of countermagic. Even Yahenni's Expertise could be viable given that we have a good number of 4 toughness creatures, Planeswalkers, and Hearts.
This is a rough sketch of what I'm thinking:
4 Heart of Kiran
4 Scrapheap Scrounger
4 Voltaic Brawler
4 Lathnu Hellion
4 Attune with Aether
4 Harnessed Lightning
4 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Unlicensed Disintegration
3 Arlinn Kord
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Blossoming Marsh
2 Cinder Glade
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Mountain
Actually, your odds of drawing a 7 land hand are only 5%, so it doesn't happen that often. Yes, you mulligan a 7-land hand for sure. In order to win you need to draw a Vortex, Visions, or Sensation in each hand (or at least a Tormenting Voice). This makes me suspect that the deck should actually have the 4th Vortex and maybe another Voice, but it would come at the expense of Wails (maybe right?) Wail really helps the Thermo-Thing and GW tokens matchups, but it may be right to sideboard some copies of it. Keep in mind that while you are running 40 lands, a large number of those lands actually do something, such make tokens or attack.
While the deck can beat Bant Company (I've done it), G1 the matchup is bad. Radiant Flames helps a lot, especially since they're going to Spell Queller your Visions or Crawling Sensation. Crawling Sensation is the key to winning the matchup as it allows you to make lots of insects to block their guys with, while Vortex+Insects can take out their 3 toughness creatures, and Vortex alone can kill Selfless Spirit and Duskwatch Recruiter.
On the otherhand, most control matchups are near unlosable. Fevered Visions destroys their planeswalkers and slowly overwhelms them or you end up reclamationing for a whole bunch of lands which becomes lethal. Kitty-Pact is the exception, as their combo can come out fast enough to be a credible threat. You have the Naturalize in the board.
As pbharris3 posted, the key card really is Crawling Sensation, not so much Vortex. The ability to make 2 insects per turn (which is normal with your sac lands and Vortexes) while filling the grave for Splendid Reclamation, enables you to survive in order to overwhelm your opponent with all of your lands. It is not abnormal to have 18-20 lands in play with this deck, or to activate three Wandering Fumaroles in a given turn. There have been countless games where I've cracked two Foundry of the Consuls to make four tokens and then activated Westvale Abbey all in the same turn (this requires 18 lands), saccing the four tokens and the insect from Crawling Sensation. It is something to behold.
In the Jund version, Retreat to Hagra directly competes with Molten Vortex, and Molten Vortex is just a better card. It combines well with Fevered Visions and Frog to just beat your opponent down. Frog is more expensive than Fevered Visions, but has a better payoff. Too often the Frog is a victim of a Transgress the Mind, Ruinous Path, or Reflector Mage. It just isn't as good as Fevered Visions.
Temur has two manlands, Jund only has one. Fumaroles can attack for 4, this is very relevant many games.
One card that I did manage to break out and find was quite good in the deck is Warping Wail. The ability to counter a sorcery is very key since Languish and Tragic Arrogance are very good against the deck. Also, making a 1/1 or exiling a creature like a Selfless Spirit isn't horrible.
Also want to note that I swapped the Magmatic Insights back for the Tormenting Voices. Oftentimes, you want to be able to discard that extra Molten Vortex or other spell so you can draw more lands.
My current list:
2 Tormenting Voice
4 Crawling Sensation
4 Fevered Visions
3 Warping Wail
4 Splendid Reclamation
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Foundry of the Consuls
3 Westvale Abbey
4 Wandering Fumarole
3 Lumbering Falls
4 Game Trail
4 Shivan Reef
5 Forest
2 Island
6 Mountain
1 Wastes
3 Invasive Surgery
2 Summary Dismissal
3 Radiant Flames
1 Naturalize
3 Retreat to Kazandu
2 Nephalia Academy
1 Orbs of Warding
Sure, but in reality you don't often Reclamation for more than 5-6. Crawling sensation comes down T3, and by T5-T6 you're ready to cast Reclamation to turn the tide of the game in your favor. You can't just hold Reclamation against many decks because:
A) They're running maindeck discard like Transgress or TkS
B) You need the lands in order to start making creatures
Unfortunately my list has no other creatures to sacrifice.
I tried Retreat to Hagra - it was OK but not amazing. It kind of conflicts with Vortex because you can't both play your lands and pitch them too. It does work well with lands like Evolving Wilds and Blighted Woodlands and you can nickle and dime your opponent to death, but this is not really a winning line most games. You really want to drop Crawling Sensation or Frog+Vortex or Fevered Visions+Vortex.
Still working out the sideboard and whether or not the Jund version is better. The Jund version just might be better, the frog was surprisingly good and it forces your opponent to keep in removal spells which will end up being irrelevant most of the time.
This means you get to draw a card for every Molten Vortex activation. Since your deck is 40 lands, the gas doesn't really run out very easily.
Part of the advantage of this deck is that it blanks your opponent's removal for the better part. I beat A LOT of control decks the other night. Fevered Visions owns control. Gitrog Monster plays right into their game plan. Mina and Denn is interesting but it's probably going to die and trample is mostly irrelevant. Retreat to Hagra definitely fits the gameplan and I may try a version out with that if I can wrap my head around the exact build.
Edited to say that Fevered Visions is critical to draw you cards. Being that you have 40 lands, you are hungry for gas most games and welcome the extra draws. Especially while the extra cards are damaging your opponents.
I lost to 4-color emerge, and twice to thermo-thing. Thermo-thing is a bad matchup and the sideboard should be adjusted for it.
I agree with Magmatic Insight, seems strictly better than Tormenting Voice. I did think about Retreat to Hagra, but that would mean playing/splashing black. This is a good idea worth trying though. You often win games without casting Splendid Reclamation. Just Molten Vortex + Fevered Visions and 40 lands is enough to kill most opponents.
Also, I don't think you want to mess too much with the land count. You absolutely need somewhere around 40 lands for this deck to work properly. Otherwise your Vortexes and Reclamations become useless. Plus you need to hit Crawling Sensation every turn. (Sensation is amazing btw - remember that you can get it's ability on your opponents turn easily by sacrificing Foundry or Evolving Wilds, or pitching to Vortex)
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Crawling Sensation
4 Fevered Visions
1 Burn Within
4 Splendid Reclamation
4 Wandering Fumarole
4 Lumbering Falls
4 Cinder Glade
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Foundry of the Consuls
3 Westvale Abbey
4 Shivan Reef
6 Mountain
5 Forest
2 Island
3 Retreat to Kazandu
4 Radiant Flames
4 Negate
2 Incendiary Flow
2 Confirm Suspicions
Molten Vortex + Crawling Sensation + Fevered Visions + Lots of Lands = lots of insects and damage. Splendid Reclamation brings all of your lands back and allows you to make a Prince or attack with manlands to win the game easily.
If it does get countered or they have an answer for your Architect then it is a 2 for 1, which is bad.
On the other hand, it does enable turn 3 kills more often. It might be a valuable sideboard card for matchups where we want to combo as quickly as possible (i.e. Affinity), and that is that. I don't see it being good against decks that interact a lot like Grixis or Jeskai.
I've gone to sideboarding Blood Moon and mainboarding Diabolic Edict for the Marit Lage. Blood Moon is also good against Eldrazi and a handful of other matchups. Edict is also very useful in other matchups - it's good against True Name Nemesis, Reality Smasher and Nimble Mongoose to name a few. Moon does force you to build your manabase around it and turns off your punishing fire combo, so those are caveats to consider. Yet it is worth it for hosing two major decks in the format that are seeing a lot of play right now (and punishing fire is bad against both those decks)
Has anyone ever considered Painful Truths in this deck? I'm going to run a version tomorrow that runs it along with Huntmaster of the Fells (as opposed to Bloodbraid Elf, which is bad with Truths). Huntmaster offsets the life loss from Truths and provides an additional Wolf so you have something left when they (inevitably) swords or bolt your Huntmaster away. Plus, some kind of lifegain would be very nice for the burn matchup (where you are siding out your painful truths)