MTG Salvation

Ya, not every card on the list is going to be a slam dunk for everybody.

Spike > Disruption > Force > Censor > Pierce <- Which is actually quite crazy, since I really like Pierce, lol.

Unearth > Rites < Scrutiny

Brutality > Whisper

Quote from JuiceBOX »

I also didn't mean for my hot take to come off as *****ty as it did, I apologize.

Thanks for apologizing. I've had to do it a couple of times over a few threads myself regarding this topic.

Thanks for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed the article!

I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment of the MDFCs. You don't want to play them as taplands. But it's better than losing to mana screw. So if you're playing a tapland instead of playing a spell, it could very well be saving you from losing a game. Or at the very least, giving you a chance to come back in a game that another non-land spell wouldn't do for you in that same situation. Again, I plan to test the taplands as spells when deckbuilding for this very purpose. The flexibility of the boltlands makes me more willing to have them replace lands during deckbuilding. The primer at the beginning of the article explains why.

Quote from JuiceBOX »

I do expect folks to double down on their stance after testing these cards, and not because they are actually any good, but because it is easy for them to feel they were right when they have the ability to confirm their own thoughts without disproving the naysayers.

Good lord, what an awful take. I mean, the exact same thing could be said about the MDFC haters ...but nobody's making that argument because it's a complete garbage take.

But whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.

Ya, the set's pretty fantastic. One of the best we've seen. We'll see how the MDFCs perform long term, and see if an even wider net needs to be cast to bring more of them into the cube. It's a real possibility...

My point regarding the Mimic was about rate, not function. So it's the same.

Opposite of my intentions with the comments about limited. Only pointing out that how they perform in cube will be independent from their performance in other formats. Correlation ≠ causation, and all that good stuff.

There's cool information that can be obtained by watching them in limited and standard. But the only thing that matters in the end is how well they do in the cube. Hopefully by watching the other formats I can learn some cool tricks of the trade to make them perform even better in cube.

Which is great! I'm also super interested to see how they play out elsewhere. That information can be important for figuring out all the subtle ways they can have their utility maximized in the cube.

I just wanted to encourage everyone to test the ones they like for their cubes, independently of how good or bad they look in other formats. Cheers!

Ya, Atarka's Command is a cool card, I just don't see a cut for it that I like at the moment!

I always like changing things up and trying new ideas. I've played an aggro-Loam deck before, but it's been a long time since the last experimentation and a lot has changed since then! Looking forward to seeing more of it in action.

I was playing both until very recently, now I'm only playing Pit. It's more reliable to combo with, and has been surprisingly effective at just being a cool card to have around.

Quote from BlackWaltz3 »

Verdict is still out, need to watch some more. Also, yes I know that Day 1 standard with ZNR doesn't necessarily predict performance in cube, but it is better than nothing.

You should play them in your cube and see how effective they are in there. Standard ≠ Cube. Limited ≠ Cube. I'm interested in seeing how they play in other formats too, but the only way to know for sure is to play with them in the cube format and see how they do. I couldn't care less if they're amazing in standard/limited, or terrible in standard/limited. It's how they play in the cube that matters.

Yes, Metamorph is better at being a Clone than Mimic is, and I don't think anyone is arguing that.

And there's a hell of a lot more to evaluating these cards than what pick order they fall in during their respective retail limited drafts. I'm interested in seeing how they play in cube. That will be what's telling in regards to how good they are in cube.

That's fair. The structure of every cube is going to be different. But if I could only play one, I think I'd be leaning towards Jwari Disruption myself. But of course, they're very different roles.

Quote from rantipole »

Hi wtwlf,

Would you mind dropping a list of the cards not in your Top 20 that still made your cube in this thread?

Cheers,
rant

I believe it's Kargan Intimidator & Skyclave Relic (+ Akoum Hellhound & Fearless Fledgling being tested in an aggro-Loam package) that are the 4 cards I'm cubing with that didn't make it into the article. It makes for 29 total cards ...but remember that cards 21-25 are the other 5 Pathway Lands that all got rolled up into one slot.

Quote from DoubleD256 »

Hello Wtwlf, great top 20 as always!

I'm currently running the 10 man, 5 cycle, 5 canopy, and 20 utility lands (plus the normal 30 lands sac, shock, dual) in my 580 cube.

Should i just start cuting bad man lands and cycle lands for the new pathways?

Glad you liked it!

I like these more than the Bicycle Lands. I'm still pretty big on Man Lands, so those would be harder cuts for me. That may mean that you only get 2/6 for your cube, since Horizon Lands are available to W/G. But I'd definitely test these ones out and see how they do. If your group likes them in U/B and R/G, consider expanding which ones you use.

Quote from TheCaper85 »

Sorry i repost the question because I forgot 1 card:

Drana, liberator of malakir
Ammit eternal
Yahenni, undying partisan
Grim haruspex
Mardu strike leader
Spawn of mayhem

Thanx again.

1. Drana, liberator of malakir
2. Mardu strike leader
3. Spawn of mayhem

...and then the other 3 in some random order.