im curious as to how CURIOSITY has been for you (har har, but seriously.)
also, why not runechanter's pike over dagger? card availability? also, have you tried lone revenant? its pretty decent right now i think. if you can resolve it versus the random control decks, most of them dont have outs to it, or have very few outs (like the new wrath).
i would also be careful about using counterspells right now. people have known that counterspells are where the format is weak for some time now, so they will gun for counterspells (like using cavers mainboard, especially in numbers). if you are waiting to counter a threat, and they just cavern the creature type and play it, you might not have another out to the situation and its a huge blow against you. loxodon smiter should pick up in popularity, too. so be careful of that as well (alongside other uncounterable things like slaughter games, abrupt decay, and supreme verdict).
(and super picky, but your deck isnt midrange XD. its more like tempo-aggro. midrange is like jund currently, some thragtusk decks, and UWR restoration angel kind of stuff)
Hi, thanks on your feedback on the deck.
-Curiosity is subpar in my testing. Even if I drew cards off it, I still found it very slow. It feels like a "win more" than a "win now" card.
- Reason why I did not choose Runechanter's Pike is because the decrease no. of sorceries and instants. Also, the Dagger can be cast on the 1st turn. It means 2nd turn I cast the Stalker.
- Lone Revenant is good but it has no evasion. Opponents would chump block him.
- I agree that "counterspells" are not good right now due to decks reacting to the uw Flash deck.
i agree with desperate ravings. its super incredible, especially if you are running burning vengeance.
this being said, i dont think burning vengeance is where you want to be at right now. detention sphere alone is enough of a reason to not play it, IMO. it has never really had the flashback support cards its needed. flashback draw spells are nice and all, but without GOOD / COST EFFECTIVE flashback kill spells, burning vengeance doesnt really have the tools to make it work.
i would cut them for a more reliable threat.
You are right. That's why I gave up on the whole idea and focused more on the strength of the deck which are the Stalkers.
You need board wipe like whoa. You're not going to be able to counter or remove EVERY little card that they play, and tokens are huge right now. Board wipe is an absolute must. I've had a lot of great luck with mizzium mortars as a two-of, but I run goblin electromancer to bring that overload into reach in the early game.
Four snapcasters is a bit much in my opinion but a lot of people would disagree with me. Frankly, I think you'd rather draw a spell than him in the early game, so bring in a different spell and go to three with snappy, you may find yourself much more flexible and therefore better as a control deck because of it.
Pillar of Flame is a sideboard card. An absolute must against zombies and fairly useless outside thereof. Bring in the searing spears. The extra damage is worth it, and the ability to hit your opponent for that one last final push cannot be over rated.
Otherwise i'm interested in seeing how this turns out for you, let us know how it tests.
Thanks for the idea. The reason why I don't have mortars is because the meta here is more on zombies and Strangleroot Geists which my deck is having problems with. Another thing why I did not consider it is because it is a sorcery and I need to tap out when I need to overload it.
As for the 4 Snapcaster Mage, I am happy to see them everytime. And I think 4 is the perfect number since I rarely encounter 3 or 4 of them in my initial hand.
The primary problem of my deck is Thragtusk. If a Thragtusk resolves, then it is usually game over for me.
As such I revised my deck again to battle the Thragtusk menace
The primary changes:
+4 Fog Bank
This my primary protection if a Thragtusk or a big creature resolves.
+3 Searing Spear
You are right, extra damage is good.
+3 Silver Inlaid Dagger
Since I have cut on the instant and sorcery spells. The dagger can deal more damage in a short span of time.
I have tested this build in cockatrice and it is winning games. Opponents are pretty irritated on how to kill a Stalker which has Curiosity and Dagger equipped. Backed up with counter it can go all the way. ;-)
I. Card choices:
1.) 4 Invisible Stalker + 3 Curiosity + 3 [CARD]Runechanter's Pike
[/CARD]-The Stalkers are your primary condition when a Runechanter's Pike is equipped
- The Stalkers can also be used as a draw engine and draw a card every turn when you enchant it with Curiosity.
2.) 4 Thoughtscour + 2 Izzet Charm-Powers up your Pike to deal massive damage. The Charm can also kill a small creature or counter a spell.
4.) 2 Augur of Bolas- Can use to find your counterspells, draw cards, etc. Also a body to block or fit the Pike on.
5.) 4 Snapcaster Mage- Can flashback all your cheap spells and also a body to fit Pike on.
6.) 3 Pillar of Flame + 3 Unsummon- Pillar of Flame is to eliminate Undying creatures and can also use as direct damage to opponents.
- Unsummon is for the bigger creatures that Pillar of Flame or Izzet Charm cannot kill.
7.) 2 Ghost Quarter- To eliminate Carven of Souls and Moorland Haunt, which can prove problematic for this kind of deck.
II. Play style:
A great deal of patience is needed to play this deck. Do not expect to one shot your opponent or out-race your opponent with a pike.
The aim is to wear your opponent down with countermagic and removal spells. Draw cards efficiently using Think Twice, Thoughtscour, and Izzet Charm which are cheap and can be cast on opponents turn.
You can also abuse the Invisible Stalker + Curiosity engine to draw into more cards while slowly chipping your enemies life.
Always leave counter mana up. Do not equip a Pike if you are not in the clear. This deck can grind out games so be patient!
III. Cards that were considered
1.) Silver Inlaid Dagger - Can easily be cast 1st turn. And can deal 4 damage when equipped to a Stalker, Problem is, your creature does not have first strike.
2.) Desperate Ravings - Can replace itself but too risky that you randomly discard an important card.
3.) Searing Spear - 3 damage is not enough to kill creatures in the midrange game. Also this deck does not aim to race opponents.
I'm going to test 4 Index on this deck to flip Delvers or find answers. To me Index is like a combination of Ponder and Vampiric Tutor. You get to set-up your next 5 cards to find the necessary cards you need to win the game but you don't necessarily draw that card during your turn.
I also included 3 Evolving Wilds in case the top 5 cards are ugly and you need a reshuffle.
Cheap casting creatures for blue:
1.) Invisible Stalker - Has hexproof and unblockable.
2.) Delver of Secrets - If flipped, has evasion.
3.) Augur of Bolas - 1/3 and has card selection.
4.) Snapcaster Mage - Has flash and very useful ability. You can flash it during your opponent's turn then equip the Pike in your turn.
My point is that the removal to worry about this them both, so blanking removal isn't really a good reason to use the card that isn't as powerful. Pillar makes guttersnipe a sad gobo, though. Idk, I'm just going to have a really hard time thinking BV has the reach to work anymore. It's just too slow.
Yes, if you will be only be relying on a single BV then it is too slow. But BV combined with direct damage spells or multiple BV in play can add more damage over a few turns.
Maybe use ghostly flicker or some counterspells. It'd basically become neo delver, though, which could be something you'd like to avoid. I think you're overestimating removal though, the biggest threat for your snipe is Abrupt Decay which chews on BV just as well
Would like to thank you for your inputs.
You are right that Abrupt Decay can target both BV and Pike. A probable good scenario is if both BV and Pike are both in play. If both are in play then at least you still have a way out.
I just agree with nixing vengeance for guttersnipe. More instant gratification, twice as strong (hits both times around) and can carry his pike. Relying on BV is just that.
Problem with Guttersnipe is he easily eats removal.
See my post above for explanation. Also, the amount of draw and discard spells will ensure that you have plenty of cards going in the graveyard to feed the Pike and Vengeance.
I'm building something similar, but flashback kind of nonbos with the Pike...I've scrapped Vengeance and snaps. I'm using Thought Scour and Jace Architects.
I think Jace, Architect of Thought is ok for other decks but not this one since the 2nd ability does not discard the card/s to your graveyard. It only places them at the bottom of your library.
I have not yet really tested the deck. But the way I see it:
1.) you can use the Pike and Vengeance together which results to a lethal damage.
Example:
Equip the Pike to Stalker. Attack. If player survives attack, then finish them with Vengeance.
2.) If there are no creatures in play due to opponent played a sweeper then you can use Burning Vengeance as your win condition. Having multiple Vengeance in play will certainly hurt.
Will test the deck once I have all the pieces since right now it's all just a concept.
Maybe Guttersnipe in the SB or even a few MB to add some extra damage, plus he can carry the pike.
Thanks for the useful suggestion. I would test Guttersnipe in the sb since I expect people will be bringing the graveyard hate for game 2. Hopefully they remove pinpoint creature removal since game 1 they cannot target a creature (except Snapcaster Mage) that I have.
Hi, thanks on your feedback on the deck.
-Curiosity is subpar in my testing. Even if I drew cards off it, I still found it very slow. It feels like a "win more" than a "win now" card.
- Reason why I did not choose Runechanter's Pike is because the decrease no. of sorceries and instants. Also, the Dagger can be cast on the 1st turn. It means 2nd turn I cast the Stalker.
- Lone Revenant is good but it has no evasion. Opponents would chump block him.
- I agree that "counterspells" are not good right now due to decks reacting to the uw Flash deck.
You are right. That's why I gave up on the whole idea and focused more on the strength of the deck which are the Stalkers.
This is my current deck:
IZZET CURIOUS STALKER (MIDRANGE) ver 3
4 Steam Vents
2 Ghost Quarter
8 Island
5 Mountains
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Fog Bank
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Izzet Charm
3 Unsummon
3 Searing Spear
2 Essence Scatter
2 Dissipate
4 Curiosity
3 Silver Inlaid Dagger
Thanks for the idea. The reason why I don't have mortars is because the meta here is more on zombies and Strangleroot Geists which my deck is having problems with. Another thing why I did not consider it is because it is a sorcery and I need to tap out when I need to overload it.
As for the 4 Snapcaster Mage, I am happy to see them everytime. And I think 4 is the perfect number since I rarely encounter 3 or 4 of them in my initial hand.
The primary problem of my deck is Thragtusk. If a Thragtusk resolves, then it is usually game over for me.
As such I revised my deck again to battle the Thragtusk menace
IZZET CURIOUS STALKER (MIDRANGE) ver 3
4 Steam Vents
2 Ghost Quarter
8 Island
5 Mountains
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Fog Bank
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Izzet Charm
3 Unsummon
3 Searing Spear
2 Essence Scatter
2 Dissipate
4 Curiosity
3 Silver Inlaid Dagger
The primary changes:
+4 Fog Bank
This my primary protection if a Thragtusk or a big creature resolves.
+3 Searing Spear
You are right, extra damage is good.
+3 Silver Inlaid Dagger
Since I have cut on the instant and sorcery spells. The dagger can deal more damage in a short span of time.
I have tested this build in cockatrice and it is winning games. Opponents are pretty irritated on how to kill a Stalker which has Curiosity and Dagger equipped. Backed up with counter it can go all the way. ;-)
I am open to any of your opinions/ideas on how to improve it.
IZZET CURIOUS STALKER (MIDRANGE) ver 2
4 Steam Vents
2 Ghost Quarter
8 Island
5 Mountains
4 Invisble Stalker
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Augur of Bolas
2 Izzet Charm
3 Unsummon
2 Syncopate
2 Essence Scatter
2 Dissipate
1 Rewind
2 Think Twice
3 Curiosity
3 Runechanter's Pike
I. Card choices:
1.) 4 Invisible Stalker + 3 Curiosity + 3 [CARD]Runechanter's Pike
[/CARD]-The Stalkers are your primary condition when a Runechanter's Pike is equipped
- The Stalkers can also be used as a draw engine and draw a card every turn when you enchant it with Curiosity.
2.) 4 Thoughtscour + 2 Izzet Charm-Powers up your Pike to deal massive damage. The Charm can also kill a small creature or counter a spell.
3.) 2 Syncopate + 2 Essence Scatter + 2 Dissipate + 1 Rewind-Your counterspell package.
4.) 2 Augur of Bolas- Can use to find your counterspells, draw cards, etc. Also a body to block or fit the Pike on.
5.) 4 Snapcaster Mage- Can flashback all your cheap spells and also a body to fit Pike on.
6.) 3 Pillar of Flame + 3 Unsummon- Pillar of Flame is to eliminate Undying creatures and can also use as direct damage to opponents.
- Unsummon is for the bigger creatures that Pillar of Flame or Izzet Charm cannot kill.
7.) 2 Ghost Quarter- To eliminate Carven of Souls and Moorland Haunt, which can prove problematic for this kind of deck.
II. Play style:
A great deal of patience is needed to play this deck. Do not expect to one shot your opponent or out-race your opponent with a pike.
The aim is to wear your opponent down with countermagic and removal spells. Draw cards efficiently using Think Twice, Thoughtscour, and Izzet Charm which are cheap and can be cast on opponents turn.
You can also abuse the Invisible Stalker + Curiosity engine to draw into more cards while slowly chipping your enemies life.
Always leave counter mana up. Do not equip a Pike if you are not in the clear. This deck can grind out games so be patient!
III. Cards that were considered
1.) Silver Inlaid Dagger - Can easily be cast 1st turn. And can deal 4 damage when equipped to a Stalker, Problem is, your creature does not have first strike.
2.) Desperate Ravings - Can replace itself but too risky that you randomly discard an important card.
3.) Searing Spear - 3 damage is not enough to kill creatures in the midrange game. Also this deck does not aim to race opponents.
Again, any ideas/opinions given are appreciated!
UR Delver 1.5
4 Steam Vents
2 Desolate Lighthouse
3 Evolving Wilds
6 Island
4 Mountains
2 Invisble Stalker
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Augur of Bolas
4 Pillar of Flame
3 Searing Spear
3 Unsummon
1 Devil's Play
4 Thoughtscour
4 Izzet Charm
2 Runechanter's Pike
I'm going to test 4 Index on this deck to flip Delvers or find answers. To me Index is like a combination of Ponder and Vampiric Tutor. You get to set-up your next 5 cards to find the necessary cards you need to win the game but you don't necessarily draw that card during your turn.
I also included 3 Evolving Wilds in case the top 5 cards are ugly and you need a reshuffle.
Either Izzet Charm it or play one Stalker at a time to prevent a wipe-out.
1.) Invisible Stalker - Has hexproof and unblockable.
2.) Delver of Secrets - If flipped, has evasion.
3.) Augur of Bolas - 1/3 and has card selection.
4.) Snapcaster Mage - Has flash and very useful ability. You can flash it during your opponent's turn then equip the Pike in your turn.
Well that is a given since it is a 3cc enchantment.
My concern with this type of deck, all direct damage an opponent has would be aimed to the player since he/she cannot target a creature.
Yes, if you will be only be relying on a single BV then it is too slow. But BV combined with direct damage spells or multiple BV in play can add more damage over a few turns.
Would like to thank you for your inputs.
You are right that Abrupt Decay can target both BV and Pike. A probable good scenario is if both BV and Pike are both in play. If both are in play then at least you still have a way out.
Problem with Guttersnipe is he easily eats removal.
See my post above for explanation. Also, the amount of draw and discard spells will ensure that you have plenty of cards going in the graveyard to feed the Pike and Vengeance.
I think Jace, Architect of Thought is ok for other decks but not this one since the 2nd ability does not discard the card/s to your graveyard. It only places them at the bottom of your library.
I have not yet really tested the deck. But the way I see it:
1.) you can use the Pike and Vengeance together which results to a lethal damage.
Example:
Equip the Pike to Stalker. Attack. If player survives attack, then finish them with Vengeance.
2.) If there are no creatures in play due to opponent played a sweeper then you can use Burning Vengeance as your win condition. Having multiple Vengeance in play will certainly hurt.
Will test the deck once I have all the pieces since right now it's all just a concept.
Thanks for the useful suggestion. I would test Guttersnipe in the sb since I expect people will be bringing the graveyard hate for game 2. Hopefully they remove pinpoint creature removal since game 1 they cannot target a creature (except Snapcaster Mage) that I have.