I'm also skeptical on Duskmantle Seer. He gives your opponent cards, and if you flip into a Thragtusk, or another Duskmantle Seer, you might just kill yourself on the spot.
Maybe try to fit some more cards that interact with your graveyard well into the list. Right now, you only have Forbidden Alchemy and Deathrite Shaman who interact with your graveyard, yet you have multiple ways to get cards into the graveyard.
First off thanks for posting a rough skeleton for which the list can be fleshed out....
While I wish I could fork the miracle I don't know if we should be wanting to take a turn once more late game. Past in Flames gives us all our spells back for a last use turn and that's for late game.
I don't mind the Mystic Genesis but it's just not going to be the card I'd want to have five mana to sit on turn 4 or 5. If I was there I'd probably rather have a Thragtusk or Huntsmaster to get me through to the next turn.
I know Syncopate may seem nice but it's really a trap because if you can afford to Dissipate something, Dissipate is always a garantee counter. Syncopate works early in the game when we shouldn't worry about letting threats hit play. Mortars and rift are better for early threats.
I'm actually going to set snapcasters aside with my changes because we want to be able to find the Evolution, not recast it with flashback too much. One forked Evolution should carry us past our opponents in card advantage and ramp.
I'm going to try some adjustments but feel free to tell me your thoughts on them.
+4 Huntsmaster gives a good start to facing down aggro decks with with the early burn and bounce for turn two and three it should provide him safe passage to the field and he might stall or protect Chandra better than flashing back a spell with Snapcaster or the like.
+3 Thragtusk is too strong to be ignored sadly. The lifegain is huge game one and the body it leavs and possibly trades with is impressive too. Again, a Chandra blocker and staller which we can cast with ramp.
+2 Dissipate, I'm mostly on the fence right now about the control magic for the deck. We most likely would want to be tap out almost with the deck but I feel that I should try and prevent certain spells from hitting the board.
+3 Brimstone Volley, 3 damage or 5 wth morbid. We have the creatures to make it possible and it makes from a great forked finisher for Chandra.
+1 Clan Defiance. It's another mana sink spell that can take out multiple threats with ease.
+1 Past in Flames because if you can afford to cast it and a few burn spells you might be set to end the game.
Again I think you have a good start for the deck and Ijust want to build off of it. I am sure my changes aren't the best options but with some testing we can find what works best
I'm kinda getting back into Magic, so I'm a little outta the loop with these new cards, and just the general way that the format plays. If I suggest or say anything too silly, that might just be why
In response to your card choices though: Past in Flames - I just can't see this card. Maybe I'm missing something, but what is a late game Flames actually doing? Hoping to get double Morbid off your Volley's for 10 mana and 10 damage?
Thragtusk & Huntmaster - There is no doubt in my mind these are correct choices. I'll probably find room for some Thragtusks, but I just personally dont like Huntmaster, despite him being strong.
I see your argument for Dissipate over Syncopate, and it makes alot of sense.
I'll tweak my list. I already see alot of changes I'd like to make. I certainly want to keep the Temporal Masterys in though. I think they open up alot of interesting interacts, especially if one decides to run additional planeswalkers.
I'm going for a more control oriented list. I'm a sucker for cards I think that are cool, so I had to add in Temporal Mastery. I think it might be acceptable though, since we can expect to do a little 'ramping', and it's another great target for Chandra's Fork.
I expect I'm a little light on general control though.
Let me know what you guys think!
There should be Past In Flames here, because at the moment you're running purposefully bad burn just for flashback, or you're relying on the Snappy.
1-2 Past In Flames enables a massive blowout for victory, instead of a trickle of damage that might not get all the way there.
After reading the text on Burning Vengeance, maybe a Skaab Ruinator could be a one-two of in case you get mana screwed with a full graveyard?
I think Skaab Ruinator would be really bad. The list only have 4 other dudes so far... I don't think the deck needs many, if any more than the Snapcasters.
No bad burn in this list! I Assume you're talking about Geistflame? Try it out. There are a TON of X/1's to hit in this format. I was skeptical at first too. Its better than it appears.
I feel like it's going to run out of gas. I'll think about this some more and will try to jam as many burn as possible lol.
Doesn't really run out of gas. As UberGoose said, everything has a double activation, and when Forbidden Alchemy flips over something like Land Land Snapcaster Think Twice, you just start going infinite! Desperate Ravings has similar effects where often times you're not losing an entire card when you pitch.
@Crusade:
I think you definitely wanna keep the creature count low. I also agree that Past in Flames is more of a noob trap. You don't really need it. I think you should have a full set of Forbidden Alchemy. You will end up flashing them back, and they usually get you more than just one card.
I understand you need a certain minimum number of cards with flashback but Desperate Ravings is just a terrible card. I can't really think off the top of my head what to replace it with; maybe that's what you can take out for Past in Flames that others have recommended.
Also, it seems like you built this whole deck off the assumption that Burning Vengeance will always be on the field. I could actually see Distant Memories working in your deck even though that's a terrible card otherwise. 3 cards is highly worth 4 mana though IMO, and if they happen to let you put Burning Vengeance in your hand it could win you the game. Of course if you did that, they're probably sitting on some sort of enchantment hate so maybe distant memories is unplayable. Its worth a test though.
Desperate Ravings isn't my favorite either, but it does what this deck wants. It wants to dig, and it wants Flashback.
I agree that my current list heavily relies on Burning Vengeance being in play, but I don't assume that it'll be there. You gotta dig for it. Even if you lose the first couple, by the time you stick your third or fourth, you'll have such a big GY and number of lands that you win within a turn or two.
Doesn't a combo based Past in Flames strategy work as well?
Meaning Gut Shot & Gitaxian Probe, 3 colour perhaps for surgical extraction and dismember. The more of these cards you can get in your yard the better. Spamming cheap spells in the early game, getting Vengeance online, then casting flames for a boatload of damage?
Rage Extractor could even find its place there. Its a bit of a suicide strategy if played aggressively, and since this is all theory I have no idea how reliable it will be. Snapping a second dismember at opponents creature with 2 + 3 extra damage = win.
Regarding memories, I think its better to rely on cards like Ponder and Tezzeret's Gambit. Also Distant Memories reduces the chances of you drawing your engine as you will shuffle your library before drawing 3, which makes the difference between 2 and 3 cards between Memories and Gambit quite soft.
I think i stated this before, but this strategy just sounds really scary to me, since you'll be paying so much life. Plus, you just kinda have to set up to win all in one turn, and at sorcery speed too.
Burning Vengeance in conjunction with our couple burn spells actually does a really good job of keeping dudes outta your face. I can certainly see a couple Slagstorms making their way into the list though!
Built the deck with a friend for a little standard event. It was way too much fun, and actually performed well too!
You only need one Burning Vengeance and you kinda just start to 'go off'.
MB only has 5 sorcery speed cards, so you pretty much play draw go, which is sweet. Plus, when you actually do cast something on your turn, it usually means you are about to start winning harder
In my defense, I understand how many of my cards are lackluster, especially compared to other cubes. Some of these cards are suppose to be acting as parallels to better cards I intend to add (ex: Skeletal Vampire -> Grave Titan, I see them as similar, just one is vastly stronger). I just am not nearly as magically active as I use to be, so acquiring cards is far slower than ideal. However all suggestions are helpful and appriciated, cube is pretty much one of the last sanctums of real enjoyment I find in magic.
I'm curious how you promote archtypes. I mean specific archetypes, not the general Control, Aggro, Mid-range. I think I have seen Enduring Ideal in cube, which I thought looked like a very fun idea to try to push. I also thought Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas seemed like a very fun card.
However in order for these cards to be used effectively it seems like you would need other complementing cards to support the archetype. So how do you push an archetype in cube without making associated cards dead if you can't finish the archetype?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=450017
What's the point of Mayor of Avabruck? Looks like an immediate cut.
I'm also skeptical on Duskmantle Seer. He gives your opponent cards, and if you flip into a Thragtusk, or another Duskmantle Seer, you might just kill yourself on the spot.
Maybe try to fit some more cards that interact with your graveyard well into the list. Right now, you only have Forbidden Alchemy and Deathrite Shaman who interact with your graveyard, yet you have multiple ways to get cards into the graveyard.
I'm kinda getting back into Magic, so I'm a little outta the loop with these new cards, and just the general way that the format plays. If I suggest or say anything too silly, that might just be why
In response to your card choices though:
Past in Flames - I just can't see this card. Maybe I'm missing something, but what is a late game Flames actually doing? Hoping to get double Morbid off your Volley's for 10 mana and 10 damage?
Thragtusk & Huntmaster - There is no doubt in my mind these are correct choices. I'll probably find room for some Thragtusks, but I just personally dont like Huntmaster, despite him being strong.
I see your argument for Dissipate over Syncopate, and it makes alot of sense.
I'll tweak my list. I already see alot of changes I'd like to make. I certainly want to keep the Temporal Masterys in though. I think they open up alot of interesting interacts, especially if one decides to run additional planeswalkers.
4 Augur of Bolas
3 Snapcaster Mage
Small Spells
4 Farseek
2 Mystic Genesis
4 Syncopate
2 Cyclonic Rift
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Urban Evolution
3 Chandra, the Firebrand
4 Temporal Mastery
2 Bonfire of the Damned
Lands (26)
4 Stomping Ground
4 Breeding Pool
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Desolate Lighthouse
I'm going for a more control oriented list. I'm a sucker for cards I think that are cool, so I had to add in Temporal Mastery. I think it might be acceptable though, since we can expect to do a little 'ramping', and it's another great target for Chandra's Fork.
I expect I'm a little light on general control though.
Let me know what you guys think!
And then you cast Tyrant of Discord on your following turn.....
no way i wanna post in the stupid thread!
No way, here's a spam warning.
I think Skaab Ruinator would be really bad. The list only have 4 other dudes so far... I don't think the deck needs many, if any more than the Snapcasters.
No bad burn in this list! I Assume you're talking about Geistflame? Try it out. There are a TON of X/1's to hit in this format. I was skeptical at first too. Its better than it appears.
Doesn't really run out of gas. As UberGoose said, everything has a double activation, and when Forbidden Alchemy flips over something like Land Land Snapcaster Think Twice, you just start going infinite! Desperate Ravings has similar effects where often times you're not losing an entire card when you pitch.
@Crusade:
I think you definitely wanna keep the creature count low. I also agree that Past in Flames is more of a noob trap. You don't really need it. I think you should have a full set of Forbidden Alchemy. You will end up flashing them back, and they usually get you more than just one card.
EDIT:
Desperate Ravings isn't my favorite either, but it does what this deck wants. It wants to dig, and it wants Flashback.
I agree that my current list heavily relies on Burning Vengeance being in play, but I don't assume that it'll be there. You gotta dig for it. Even if you lose the first couple, by the time you stick your third or fourth, you'll have such a big GY and number of lands that you win within a turn or two.
I think i stated this before, but this strategy just sounds really scary to me, since you'll be paying so much life. Plus, you just kinda have to set up to win all in one turn, and at sorcery speed too.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Think Twice
4 Geistflame
4 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Desperate Ravings
1 Devil's Play
4 Mana Leak
4 Dissipate
Built the deck with a friend for a little standard event. It was way too much fun, and actually performed well too!
You only need one Burning Vengeance and you kinda just start to 'go off'.
MB only has 5 sorcery speed cards, so you pretty much play draw go, which is sweet. Plus, when you actually do cast something on your turn, it usually means you are about to start winning harder
In my defense, I understand how many of my cards are lackluster, especially compared to other cubes. Some of these cards are suppose to be acting as parallels to better cards I intend to add (ex: Skeletal Vampire -> Grave Titan, I see them as similar, just one is vastly stronger). I just am not nearly as magically active as I use to be, so acquiring cards is far slower than ideal. However all suggestions are helpful and appriciated, cube is pretty much one of the last sanctums of real enjoyment I find in magic.
I tried calciderm before and he never seemed to do much, if you recommend him so highly, I will have to reconsider though.
However in order for these cards to be used effectively it seems like you would need other complementing cards to support the archetype. So how do you push an archetype in cube without making associated cards dead if you can't finish the archetype?
Also, which archetypes do you recommend?