MTG Salvation

Quote from penguinofhonor

Yeah, that's really cool. Though I hope they keep it at 2-3 cards per core set, because we don't need magic's target audience to be literature nerds.

............... Magic's target audience is literature nerds, math nerds, fantasy nerds, and competitive table top gamers. The more we get satisfied the better it gets. I am a literature nerd who loves fantasy and plays competitive table top gaming. Flavor text is for the literature nerds and the fantasy players. The awesome flavor texts are one of the reasons I started magic. If wizards wants money then they better be willing to use more Shakespeare, Lewis Carol, and JRR Tolkien. Maybe even some Charles Dickens. Would you stop buying cards if they did that? I would buy more.

So my meta is an unchanging meta of all combo, dredge, reanimater, and one stax deck and one merfolk deck. The last two rarely show up now. This deck is to deal with the pile of combo that is my meta.



I think everything is pretty self-explanatory

Quote from sleeper agent 2.0

This. This times a million.

And of all the levelers, Master is maybe the one I'm least interested in going "ultimate" with. Its midrange form is most exciting for me, as it takes out almost all creatures in combat and outraces baneslayer.

Between this and Emrakul's Hatcher, Sengir Autocrat wants to cry right now. (And autocrat was RARE!)

Leveler is one of the most creative and powerful ideas wizards has ever come up with. They give you a small threat for little mana, and grow when you have more mana latter to win with them, they are disigned for control decks. They will by themselves make control domonint again.

Here is how good transendent master is, I looked at it and my first thought was "Yay, now my legacy U/W deck has a creature wincon and it is not Elspeth tokens!" This card is awesome, he will be played in U/W in standard, extended, and legacy, it is a 3/3 for 3 that gets big fast, and gets lifelink and +3/+3 if you ever have some extra mana for 2 turns.

Edit: Exalted angel is 5 mana, seeing five lands out is hard.

Quote from kariido

Impossibility U
Sorcery

Return three Islands you control to their owners hand.
Draw three cards

Edit: Spaltenhauer, I swear I didn't see your post lol. What a coincidence.

Oh let it have a gush effect of, I really want phycotog and U/G/X maddness to be good in legacy!

I just want to point out from testing, new jace rocks, I dropped 1 esper charm and 1 sphinx (I ran 2) and a avenminomancer, and the deck became alot better, while never an instant, dropping it post wrath, or even at 8 mana crazyness with wrath is discusting, it is also an alt win con, which is something this deck needs. My list is:



I have gotten to get some testing in with it and I quite like this build, I will post further results. Comments? I really recommend Jace.

For a general counter suit go with 4 cancel 4 negate 4 essence scatter as a base then tweak towrds what you feel you want to stop. The main thing about counterspells is they shut your opponent out for a maximum of one possible turn that will stall and give you more time to set up your win. You should now really only be running more then 6 counters in any build unless you are very familar with the format and what you need to counter. However, you can go crazy and play the crazy 12 (4 cancel, 4 essence scatter, 4 negate, 4 Spell contortion) and they have had some moderate success, all of it is up to playsyle and meta choices.

Quote from landmage

I can confirm the reprint of (Insert any current planeswalker here). Very soon.

Sorry, but that means nothing. There will probably be many reprints of all the planeswalkers in the future. Unless you have more info, this thread is useless, no offense.

Wizards is asking artists for concept art on her, I have seen some of it. It will be used soon in the next block. She is seen ripping the soul of someone out in one and in another killing a large beast.

I can confirm the reprint of Liliana, I am not allowed to say how, but there WILL be another printing of her in the very soon future.

Quote from Drizzt_522

of course i side him out against zoo, but his bounce ability bought me enough time to win the game. Not saying hes good against zoo, i was just amazed that he helped me win game 1. his first ability was amazing in a lot of combo/control matchups

Agreed with everything about jace.
But what would you say is the best SB card as dredge hate, and what cards should given up from the SB for more slots, because the just three extripate did not cut it in that matchup?

I think we could go with a base list like this
4x Runesnag- Best soft counter in extended, better late game then manaleak and if you have space for 4 run it.
3-4x Spellsnare- This is a VERY powerful card when most cards in the format coast 2
0-4 Remand- Tempo
0-4 Cryptic command- This allows you some serious board control for you benefit
0-4 Manaleak- The second strongest soft counter still very good
0-2 Negate- An okay SB card for control decks
0-2 Spell contortion- Intested unsure how it does
0-2 Condessend- Scry 2 is always great
0-4 Rewind- The ability to untap after counter is really good in the flash version of the deck.

Any of these could do nicely in the set up, just make sure you have atleast 10 in your build,

Draw spells
4X Ancestrial visons
3-4x Thrist for knoldge
0-2X Mysterys of the deep
0-4x Mulldrifter
0-2x Gifts ungiven
0-2 Tidings

You can play any of these as long as the deck has atleast 8, I have tested them all and I can say I like these the most out of what there is to draw with


Mass Removal
0-4 Damnation
0-4 Wrath of god
0-4 Day of judgement
0-2 Enginered explosives
0-4 Pyroclasm

These are all good, depends on your color base, run as many as you see fit, I never run 0, and never run more then 4.

Creatures
0-4X Tarmogoyf
3-4 Rhox war monk
3-4 Kichenfinks
4x Vendillion clique
0-2 Venser
0-2 Tefari
0-4 Mystic snake

This is alittle tricky, almost every build runs goyf, but he is often questionable, my favorit builds just run mystic snake, ven cliuqe, Tefari, and vernser, for the full flash package. This is a meta/personal call, the goyf lists do the best though.

'Walkers
0-4 Jace beleren
0-4 Jace the mindsculpter
0-2 Tezzeret
0-2 Elspeth
0-2 Garruk
0-2 Ajani Vengent

These are also very power full if you run the right list with them.


This should give an idea of what spells should be played in this deck. I will get to the rest of the discriptions for cards later.

I think you forget, jace dies to bolt the turn it enters, unless you do the +2 ability, then in which case you provide a -1 CA (Jace is worth -1 right nowas he is doing nothing) for the turn annd pray your jace survives long enough to net back that CA. The other jace can brainstorm and make them discard a bolt for 4, I find that VERY powerful, also I have been playing with the new jace (I open lucky packs) and it is many times more powerful then the old one, I think the only reason you put that the other jace has more power is the new one is 50$.

Quote from Idk_Pen15?

I am not trying to be rude, I am just being truthful. You are butchering the landbase for the deck that is relatively slow and making the curve higher and making the deck lose land drops is not the way you should go. Chrome moxen are debateable and should be interchangeable for land and land only.
I would take out another card other than land for jace because he is okay but needs to be tested drastically

Fae can race any other "control" deck because of Jitte and Bitterblossom along with the heavy utility creatures that do something when they hit play. i.e. spell stutter, mistbind, vend clique and if jace becomes too out of control they could get rid of him easily.

You are running two wrath effects(usually) and one real hate for dredge and brainstorming everyturn does not ensure you are going to get the hate cards.

Zoo will always ignore jace and just attack you because you left a turn wide open for their big burn spells without fear of getting blown out and that is a huge no-no because you cannot give zoo a turn for themselves especially if it is 4th turn plus if they have three+ creatures out(which they will because they are an aggro deck)

Dredge can combo out/gain a intimidating board presence at least by the fourth turn because that deck is unreal and does stupid things like that game one.

Scapeshift again, they have so many ways of getting to what they need that fatesealing isn't going to help because the control scapeshift player has so much manipulation and multiples of what they need it becomes irrelevant and the cascadeshift is just a beating because they will have an awkward board position for you already.

Oh and I have yet to cover the thopter depths deck, cutting a much needed chrome mox which adds the speed to the deck and helps against your opponents fast draws (and is also fantastic fodder for TFK) which is relevant more than not can give you a quasi edge against your opponent.

Okay, okay, I see your point, but jace is needed to be tested as you said, but my list already had 23 lands so I am pretty fine in having enough lands, my build is 61 cards, I had originaly gone 24 mana sources but dicided to just shove a land in, so I took the moxes out for jace. I did not really hurt the mana base, seeing as most decks only have 23 mana sources.

Quote from jordman

rude or not he's right, jace is horrible for this deck, you don't need more 4cmc, gifts gets you the combo, cryptic is awesome and for me mistbind clique is another 4 cmc that is really good. trust jace is fail.

Mist bind clique is HORRIBLE in this deck, quit trying to splice this with fae, you lose valuable consistacy, that jace would supply you with. There is no reason to run more fae beyond vendillion clique, which I do suggest as a 3-4 of, and sower in the board, but the rest of the fae, just do not function in this deck the way you think they do. I guess you might be able to d the sldining SB and make it into fae games 2-3 that seems good and powerful, but the mainboard just does not know what to do with those fae.

Quote from Idk_Pen15?

so you are cutting Two land for a 4cmc Spell you just shot your curve up exponentionally and you basically lose to anyone that has turn 1 Wild Nactl and all the kird creatures alike. I'm pretty sure you haven't tested enough games, but just goldfished a few times, because you will never get the god draws of spells/lands and you will more than likely be sitting there with all those expensive spells and facing a fast draw..... Still had all these cards I couldn't cast?

How does it help the dredge matchup? Their library is their Graveyard, and by then they should have killed you or have an intimidating board position to set up for the kill the next turn.

A 4 cmc spell does nothing against zoo, sure an unsummon is okay but paying 4 mana for an unsummon is not really smart and at that time you should be in the single digits whereas having a faster mana source helps set up for those turn 3 wraths/EE+activation

You also speculated the fae MU being better post game 1 and I really don't see that. They have all those awesome BB tokens or a Vendillion clique to make your day a living hell. Sure you can unsummon a token OR a utility creature which one is letting you win the race?

How does fateseal hurt the scapeshift MU? it would be godly if you hit scapeshift every single activation but with the tremendous amounts of library manipulation such as peer through the depths and coiling oracle + the absurd amounts of disruption(as they are nowadays) or the blistering aggro route they can just go beats or just play smarter.

I find you have been quite rude lately on this forum and I wish you to please refrain from this, I respect any opinons, ideas thoughts, and other whatnots you have on this deck but do not assume I just goldfished when I say I have done sometesting, my build still has a large sum of lands and in 20+ opening hands I have had 2 I had to mull, and almost every game I get the lands I need, for scapeshift, no I did not do enough testing but in 2 games, that I saw a jace the fate seal let me see the top card and stop them from getting what they needed, also the brainstom helped to get the counter backup needed to win the war for the scapeshift, for zoo it is not the unsommon that helps but the fact that jace is a massive distration the unssomon just protects it, drop jace, bounce, let them swing, brainstom, wrath. With dredge it is the samething again, if you can get the combo/hate/mainboard 1 of gravekill, you will do some serious hurt to them. The fae games 2+3 is becuse jace is an alt wincon and it gives you the possiblity to come out of some bad situations.